I have been considering organizing the buying of a house in the New Haven CT area with other practitioners, and am curious to hear if anyone has any feedback here on DhO regarding my ideas.

The basic idea is for 3-4 people to buy a house together, and create a supportive environment in which to go deeply into practice, while still having our regular jobs. One way to frame it, in terms of a reachable goal, could be something like the 5 year plan: we buy the house, pay the mortgage, practice practice practice, make a wonderful space with gardens and whatnot, have a place to host sittings, short retreats perhaps, all kinds of dhamma driven things like potlaches or bbq's or full moon gatherings. Anyway after 5 years we each have a path or two to show for it as well as some equity. I think normally, among uninstructed worldlings, this would be highly unlikely, having 4 random people live together in any sustainable or harmonious way. But as meditators I believe we have an advantage, as our practice asks us to relinquish egos. Many good things spring forth from dhamma: wisdom, clarity, tranquility, joy, humor, appreciation, goodwill - all very positive qualities for housemates to have.

Basically, I envision a place to live where one can practice every waking moment, where on days off one can go into retreat mode, and where this won't be considered strange or weird in any way, but rather will be totally supported on every level. Currently my living environment has been an obstacle for going deeper into practice, and I want to change this. Plus - I don't really care to be a hermit, do this alone, though I certainly will if need be, but having a sangha, having others who are on the path can certainly make things more fulfilling and more fun, for the sangha as we know is one of the 3 precious gems (buddha dhamma sangha). Further, I think it would be cool if this dhamma house (where we are getting enlightened and creating equity) contained an extra room or two, for someone who really needs a space to practice, where they can come and do 5 or 10 or 90 days of retreat. Or perhaps for a teacher to stay for a few days. Like Jud Brewer said when I ran the idea by him, it could be dhamma 24/7. Not for everyone, but for those of us who are forever hooked, it could be a real blessing.

Financially it makes a lot of sense, especially around here where a crappy studio costs minimum $750/mo, while you can buy a decent house for $240,000. In this scenario each person, if there were 4, would pay about $600/month, and this includes everything (mortgage taxes insurance utilities internet heat maintenance). After 5 years, even without any appreciation of value, each person would have about $5000 in equity. This might not sound like much, but it's a lot more than if you were renting and ended up with nothing. And if you factor in say 10% appreciation it would be $11,000 in equity, and so on. With some wise home improvements, potentially even more. I have spoken with a number of mortgage brokers, including one who went on a 12 year world wide meditation quest, and have been told this idea is very doable, from a mortgage standpoint, providing a few people have at least modest financial strength.

One way to structure it would be to form an LLC, with each person being a member/owner. The common spaces - living areas, outside, kitchen, etc would be owned by the LLC, and their primary function would be the furthering of dhamma, space for members of the sangha to practice and awaken. So we would basically give up the idea of "owning" a house, of having the house as personal space (other than our rooms) - rather, we would be hosting a sort of meditation/retreat center (and getting enlightened and creating equity). Also with an LLC we could write into the agreement how it will work if someone wanted to leave, or if someone new wanted to join.

One reason I'm a little obsessed with equity has to do with Daniel's warning in MCTB, that when you take on this path full bore, it's wise to consider the situation into which you might awaken. You can reach a level of awakening and find that you're totally broke, and living with people who don't really understand what you're doing, or worse, are even a little hostile towards it, and so further progress is quite a bit more challenging, or you can wake up and actually have saved some money, and be in a supportive environment.

So maybe I'm being a little dreamy here, and I realize that pulling this off won't be easy, but I envision gardens, a patio or two, a super silent meditation cell somewhere, maybe even a hot tub - things that are more possible if resources are pooled together. Personally I can do without a formal dining room. How about a dhamma library? Or a yoga room? And how much living actually goes on in a normal living room? With some innovative use of space, there could be areas for privacy, as well as an area for sangha things, like jhana groups, or 1/2 day retreats, or regular sittings. Bottom line is, I can do without all these things I have proposed, but why not create something wonderful? Why not organize, pool resources and intelligence, and create a positive force on this planet, provide a space in which dhamma can grow?

Any comments?

I think the idea of working to build dharma-oriented community of any kind is good and worth promoting, but it seems like it would be more difficult to implement successfully when people are living in close quarters (e.g. in a house vs. in a neighborhood).

I'm sure you've considered these kinds of issues, but maybe you're interested in a public discussion of them, so here goes...

One unfortunate thing that humans commonly do is worry and moralize about others' behavior, so the range of situations that might be offensive and might be seen to deviate from the mission and intention of the living situation could be fairly broad (e.g. drinking alcohol , zoning out on the couch, watching [too much?] TV, doing something that someone takes to indicate a gross lack of mindfulness, etc.). So, in a dharma house, I wonder what happens if concrete issues come up such as

* one person brings their partner over for loud sex frequently?
* one person invites non-dharma-oriented guests over frequently?
* one person becomes involved with or marries someone who isn't dharma-oriented? (and if they have children?)
* one person becomes less interested in a dharma-oriented lifestyle over time?
* etc.

In other words, the most likely sort of problem that I can foresee concerns the need to adjudicate situations in which one person's behavior offends the sensibilities of others, when such behavior might be taken to be a deviation from the mission and intention of the living situation.

Monks have presumably renounced worldly attachments, have the Vinaya (or equivalent) to limit their behavior, and in the worst case, have superiors who will adjudicate situations in which one person's behavior disturbs the community. With such limits, the ability to live together in harmony is promoted. Without such limits, one person's worldly attachments may begin to interfere with or offend everyone else's lifestyle...and yet, to limit the worldly attachments of laypeople living in their own house in a way that they would accept sounds fairly daunting. (Not impossible: perhaps it could work with a highly select group of people...as you point out, strictly treating it like a meditation / retreat center rather than a personal space would likely help here.)



On a practice-oriented note...



Do you think it would be a meaningful problem to be totally enlightened and totally broke?

One idea that I've been considering is that the more someone considers enlightenment to be the summum bonum of human life, the faster their progress toward it is likely to be. Not sure if it's true, but I do think it's worth reflecting on. (Lots of traditions emphasize this kind of reflection in different ways.)

Hi John,

Look at separating your 2 goals

1. achieve paths and get enlightened
2. create a dharma house as an environment (not restricted to the 4 owners) for hosted sittings, retreats and teachings if you intended to share with the public

1 is not dependent on 2, in fact the belief in the need of 2 will likely inhibit nb 1.
nb 1 is not a state dependent in your surrounding conditions and will only be achieved when lived out in the market place.
In the west we have been feed with a view that progress is through idealized outside factors such as teachers, churches, monasteries, hermitages, solitude living, and lifestyles free from temptations that will derail our efforts
There are no outside influences that will stop us from progress, the only conditional dependency is "you"

From reading this forum at a guess I would say the typical period for people dedicated to practice to get a path is only 6 months and 2 to 3yrs to finish it. Didn't the Buddha teach somewhere in a week for SE, makes you wonder why 2500 yrs later there is a common perception that enlightenment is an almost impossible goal reserved for those who have spent a lifetime of practice on some himalayan peak.

If there are factors you believe are preventing your progress make them the object of you investigation during meditating. Remember you can always choose to just ignore it

cheers

Jeff

totally agree, it won't be easy. I use a house as an example as it would be economically the most doable. I would certainly prefer a building of studio apartments, or a large house divided into apartments, or even designing and building something new. It all depends on how much money people have, assuming anyone is interested at all.



great! some or all of those things will more than likely occur, and the way they are dealt with will either make or break this proposed dhamma house. I certainly envision discussing beforehand all these types of issues that might arise, as well as agreeing on policies on how to deal with them, such as protocols for conflict resolution. (If it gets that far, we may ask you to be present, make sure we don't miss anything). One nice thing about meditators I have found, having lived in quite a few different situations, is they tend to let things go a little more readily. And of course at a certain level, a practitioner understands that all is 'grist for the mill', as Kenneth said. I've also found, upon looking back, that the times I've lived with other meditators have been infinitely richer, more fun, more rewarding, which is a very big reason I'm even considering this endeavor. The truth is, I have no idea how much interest there is, if any at all in this sort of thing. I will be finding out very soon however, and it's very helpful to be discussing this now, so thanks again for your input.



Certainly would hope for a select few, though I think that's a tall order. Assuming enough practitioners wanted to do this, it all depends on where people are at. For me it was a significant milestone when practice sort of flipped around, and was no longer what happened on the cushion, but what happened the other 14-16 hours of the waking moments. If everyone was at least there, which I would consider to be a "select few", then I think chances of success are pretty good. Say more than 2 of the 4 consider practice to be the hours a week when they sit, and the rest - your basic lack of mindfulness, this could be a daunting thing as you say, though perhaps still doable, especially if everyone was on board with the meditation/retreat center model.




I imagine it would still be an issue. Perhaps there wouldn't be stress or tension about it, but certainly some concern. As I look back, I have no regrets at all about choosing the pursuit of enlightenment over money, despite my current state of poverty. The times I have chosen money at the expense of dhamma: intense misery and suffering. But now, if I can find a way to include a little financial well being, while not compromising dhamma, then for sure I'll go for it.



Sounds right to me, and worth reflecting on. For sure the more I progress, the more I realize that enlightenment, or awakening, or whatever term (including AF) is the only worthwhile pursuit.

Just a random thought: if you were looking to build a small but bona fide dharma center that had a residential wing, you might be able to solicit donations and community support. (Envision a center that hosts regular meditations, teachings, etc. but also has a number of rooms that practitioners could apply to live in for a monthly fee.) Consider:

1) A non-profit corporation that owns the main house
2) A private corporation (or whatever) that owns the residential wing
3) The private corporation rents the residential wing to the non-profit corporation, the non-profit corporation pays the private corporation whatever fees they get from individuals who live there
4a) The private corporation is owned by whoever participates in your project
4b) A condition of the private corporation renting the residential wing to the non-profit corporation is that the owners have the right to rent a room.

Dunno about the legalities, but it sounds like an OK idea to me.

Pros:

* would influence the local community in a stronger way than a dharma house
* potentially more financial support depending on how many rooms there were to rent and the kinds of community activity that the dharma house supports
* if individual owners because disinterested in dharma they could simply waive their right to live there and collect rent when someone else takes their place

Cons:

* might need a well-known teacher to back this in order to receive financial support for the non-profit corporation
* the whole thing is probably a much bigger project (financially, logistically) than the dharma house idea

If you do it in New Haven, there might be a lot of interest from students at Yale, unless something equivalent already exists (I have no idea). If something equivalent already exists, then the dharma house idea may be more suited for that particular location.

Hi Jeff,

thanks for your comments. it sounds like a good idea to separate the two as you suggest, as I am sort of bundling them together. certainly the more clarity regarding intentions of this endeavor, the better.

I appreciate your last comment, to investigate those things that I believe are hindering my progress. Up to now I have been very happy, and surprised, with the progress I've made, in a difficult environment. But recently a belief has crept in that this environment is now an obstacle, that in better conditions I will make more progress, when it's actually the difficulty that necessitates the sharpening of my mind, and finding a way through the resistance. Thanks for pointing that out!