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Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable

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RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
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4/30/12 12:21 PM as a reply to Pål S..
I would like to know how he experiences emotions. I don't know if there are any reports on that.

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
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4/30/12 2:52 PM as a reply to Felipe C..

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
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5/1/12 6:38 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
yes he experiences emotions.

"there's no attempt in me to suppress limiting emotions like fear, or some terrible hatred (...) your nerve centers aren't torn out"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RpzVhHi88

he's just talking about ending the mental narratives, his stuff actually seems to match quite closely with Richard's general critique of spirituality. "feeling of presence" "feeling of I am" sense of oneness, no thoughts etc.

perhaps (personal) self-referencing thoughts/narratives and the broader Self/self fabrication of "presence" are two different things, as the science indicates he has minimal referencing as it is defined by the Yale people, but he indicates emotions/presence etc.

I am generally very wary of his experience, and of lots of the scientific conclusions being drawn about the way this stuff works. It seems that the current theory is that a monitoring aspect of the brain is activated and a self-referencing aspect de-activated. This results in near-constant suppression of narratives (he says they return right in the morning and when he is hungry), which isn't really the same thing as having totally let go of them, because that wouldn't require a monitoring process to maintain. I don't think this is really the 'uncaused' happiness derived from the complete absence of passions described in buddhism/actualism.

And it seems science is not drawing a distinction between what could be two drastically different things. One which uproots the passions and one which constantly suppresses thoughts.

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
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5/1/12 6:47 PM as a reply to Adam . ..
jeez how many different 'enlightenments' are there..!

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
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5/2/12 3:02 AM as a reply to Adam . ..
Adam . .:
jeez how many different 'enlightenments' are there..!


Wherever someone decides to plant their flag. So probably a lot.

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
Answer
5/2/12 6:33 AM as a reply to Adam . ..
Adam . .:

he's just talking about ending the mental narratives, his stuff actually seems to match quite closely with Richard's general critique of spirituality. "feeling of presence" "feeling of I am" sense of oneness, no thoughts etc.
Yes he realized the I AM.

In that moment of I AM realization, there is no 'emotions, etc', however it is impossible to sustain I AM throughout the day, it becomes captured as a reified image of an 'Ultimate Self' (which is attributeless, formless, thoughtless, odorless, etc etc) and prevents us from experiencing NDNCDIMOP and pristine non-dual awareness in/as other 'forms' and 'sensations' and 'thoughts' and 'odours'. Such a practitioner will try to abide in the Self as much as possible, but to do so is a form of samadhi practice and is far from effortless, so further insights into non-dual, anatta and shunyata is necessary to make NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non-conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception) effortless and perpetual in every sensation/perception/thought.

There's something relevant I wrote in this forum (is No Dog = PCE?) in the past though it may not necessarily match what Richard thinks.

........

No-Dog/I AM and PCE

First of all, the issue of No-Dog which is I AM as defined by Kenneth, and its relation with PCE (Pure Consciousness Experience as termed by Richard). Is I AM/No-Dog the same as PCE? Is it different?

We have to consider a few issues here: In the I AM realization, is there emotion? Is there feeling? Is there even thought? Is there division? Or is there complete stillness? Perhaps most importantly: is there Being, is there Identity in the 'I AM' realization?

Now in PCE, in hearing there is just sound, just this complete, direct clarity of sound! So what is "I AM"? It is important to note there that 'I AM' is not simply an experience of being the Witness/Watcher or a state of witnessing. One can also have an experience similar to I AM yet the realization has not occurred. This is being discussed in the article written by Thusness: Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives. 'I AM' is a profound life changing realization of something undeniable and undoubtable.

Those who have gone through I AM realization (those following Vipassana paths may not experience it), particularly those following Direct Path (as practiced in Advaita, Zen, etc, as I did and written in my e-book) will know, in the I AM realization there is no emotions, no feelings, not even thought, there is no division, it is complete stillness, and there is complete certainty and doubtlessness about what is being realized.

And actually, there is no being either! But as this experience and realization is so powerful, it will leave a very lasting life-changing impression on one's mind, even though one is unable to sustain (unless one is so well trained in absorption such as Ramana Maharshi) such an experience for long.

And because the mind does not have the right view, because the mind is deeply obscured by the view of inherency and duality, it will cling onto that as a Purest Identity. Because the I AM realization appears to be so special... it will be clung to be an ultimate self. The identification actually comes as an 'after-thought' to the actual experience/realization.

In reality, what is it? It is actually just one aggregate, one dhatu out of the 18! (six sense organs, six sense objects, six sense consciousness) What is that one dhatu? It is simply a non-conceptual thought. There is no 'sense of being/identity' at that moment of realization. It is a PCE in a non-conceptual thought, or rather, a pure conscious experience of thought, just like a pure conscious experience of sound (neither are purer). However, because the realization of Anatta has not arisen, the PCE quickly devolves into an ASC after that moment of realization, it becomes reified into a super-self, an ultimate Being (edit: or an Ultimate/Eternal Witness behind thoughts and perception)... especially if one's inquiry is structured in such a way which presumes an ultimate identity: 'Who am I?', which will lead to the realization of I AM. Whereas the inquiry/method of HAIETMOBA does not assume such a being.

What Richard stress however is PCE in all dhatus (all sense experiences) without identity, which can be 'induced' by the practice of HAIETMOBA.

The I AM realization resulted from the practice of self-inquiry becomes reified into an ultimate Background of all experience... a ground of being which everything manifests out of, subsides to, yet itself remaining unchanged. Is there such a background? The background is actually an illusion, an image of a previous PCE captured by memory and made more ultimate than other experiences, and reified into an ultimate Self... the actual realization and experience is a full foreground dhatu, aggregate, just like any other manifestations in the sensate field. In actuality, that non-conceptual thought is not any more special than a passing sight, a passing scent! Further insights into non-dual and then anatta will reveal that All are equally marvellous, wonderful, intensely luminous. There is no need to make the set of dhatu that relates to mind-consciousness more special or ultimate than any other, and just as we do not make sound any more ultimate than taste, we also do not need to make non-conceptual thought more ultimate than a sight or indeed even a conceptual thought itself... even though each dhatu and manifestation is radically different from another and arises according to different and various conditions.

...

Yes. PCE is about direct and pure experience we encounter... be it in sight, sound, taste, etc, the quality and depth of experience in sound, in contact, in taste, in scenery, and so on. Have you truly experienced the immense luminous clarity in the senses? If so, what about 'thought'? Have you experienced the immense luminous clarity as a thought with senses shut as a pure sense of existence as it is, and the immense luminous clarity of a thought with senses open? Therefore have a clear understanding before comparing. Just be simple and ask yourself... if one can deeply experience the pure sensory experience in sight, taste, sound, contact, what is the pure experience of mind like?

RE: Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable
Answer
5/2/12 6:32 AM as a reply to Adam . ..
Adam . .:
jeez how many different 'enlightenments' are there..!
Here's a good map: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html