I recently did my first 3 day water fast. No food, just spring water for 3 days and 3 nights. I did it after being inspired by the BBC's Horizon program Eat, Fast and Live Longer. It's well worth an hour of your time.

Now that i've kickstarted this with the 3 days I am doing daily 16hr fasts. Dinner at 17:30, then nothing till breakfast at 09:30 and 1 day a week I am doing a 24hr fast. (eat dinner, then not again till dinner next day). And that's today!

It's early days yet but I can say that the effects of the 3 days were astonishing. 3 days is considered quite a short fast by the standards of the folks at FastingConnection but I feel lighter (in being, spring in step kind of way), way sharper in mind and have tons more energy! Oh, and going with that energy has come motivation, clarity and some intuitive forward thinking. Also, many of my aches and pains disappeared during the fast, though they have come back a bit since breaking it (something to work on..)

Of course it helps that Im currently enjoying a fairly solid baseline of Equanimity

I can now understand why when I come back off retreat I feel many of the same things. The typical Theravadin schedule is a daily 20hr fast (ish). Typically after about day 3 or 4 all my aches and pains start disappearing and I've usually tightened my belt by the time I get back.

The health benefits of daily / weekly short "maintenance fasts" are fairly well documented in the BBC program. It really seems like the Intermittent approach could be a middle way to better health congruent with buddhist teachings and practice.

For more, see AllAboutFasting.com which is probably the best resource I've found so far in my research. Also, this series on the benefits of intermittent fasting by "primal blueprint" author Mark Sisson.

If you've done this kind of thing before, let us know what you think..

Interesting stuff,
You're right, the regular Theravada Western retreat schedule includes a 19 hour fast every day,
Personally I decided to avoid it after many trials and errors, as I am quite thin naturally and lose so much weight in these retreats that I come out even thinner than I started. I suppose it could work if you have some extra stuff to lose, but if you dont, it doesn't feel right to me.
What dýa think?

You're missing out on the health benefits of allowing the digestive system to rest for extended periods (and for the body to use it's energy to heal itself). Maybe just eat a bigger lunch Yadid? One of the other benefits is needing less sleep (which is great, as you're not getting as much on retreat anyway) and increased concentration and mental clarity.

On my last retreat I didn't pay any attention to what I was eating at lunch. The food is really good and I was tucking into all the things I dont normally eat at home (like rich desserts, ice cream, cake!) etc and really larding on the calories. I still came away feeling "lighter".

Also, your body will put that weight back on very quickly once you get home.

Interesting convo, and quite relevant for me as I am going on a Goenka retreat next month, and I'll have to decide whether im sticking with the 19 hour fast or having a light dinner. I have tried both.

My main issue with this, is that I usually eat small frequent meals, and so on a retreat I eat a little bit for breakfast, and a little bit for lunch, and then not eating for 19 hours feels quite intense.. hmmm..
I did do it several times though, and I dont think it was that bad, though I did come out like a skeleton sometimes.

I read quite a bit about "little and often" these last few days. Though my main physical exercise is walking, swimming and yoga these days I have at times been lifting heavy and rowing so Im interested in the effects of such things on strength. Turns out, the little and often thing that body builders have been doing for years and years now is all wrong (hah! till this is all wrong and some new thing is all the rage ). The body doesn't care when it gets its calories, just how much it gets in total.

What seems to be important is the "natural" (paleo diet, primal living) rhythm of eat/fast/eat/fast gives the body time to repair. Your body spends an enormous amount of it's energy on digesting the food you eat. Give the body some room to breath and it stars turning it's attention to repair work!

Here's a series of articles on fasting benefits by Mark Sisson I found to be very helpful:

I dunno, a little and often is what comes naturally to me, never decided to do so.

What about some fruit in the evening then, Puss ? ;-)

By the way did you see my chats on the side.

Yeh. I wondered what the little "blip" noises where. it's being a bit funny but im looking at it now.

The DhO was having fruitions.

Personally in the past I did try IF to lose weight.
I wasn't so fat, just a little chubby, it did take a while to work, but it did!
The protocol I followed was Fast-5, during some months.

Nowadays, I just don't eat breakfast, usually I have lunch at noon, have an afternoon snack and dinner at 9pm, but usually I don't eat much in those meals. I would like to eat dinner a little earlier, but due to current schedule constraints, that's how it'll be.

One important insight was how I learned how people usually eat way more than they need. You shouldn't fill your whole stomach, it feels way better to have some space left.
Also, it's useful to learn how to not feel like shit if you have to skip a meal and you know how to deal with it.

For those that want to try IF, keep the following on mind:
- In the beginning, try to be as gradual as possible, for example, changing your meal time one hour each day, or whatever you want, as long as it's not so unconfortable.
- Drink lots of water. It helps dealing with hunger without adding calories.

I do IF since about 6 months. Eating window is 8 hours, beginning at 2.30 p.m. I find my mind to be clearer and more awake during the fasting period. Highly recommended.

Hi Bagpuss,

Yes, I do this and it is very helpful, sometimes like Thervadan tradition, sometimes like you (stopping after 4 or 5 pm). It is excellent for meditation and equanimity and sati. It also shows how and where gratification-seeking (craving is arriving). I feel especially good the next morning. It took me about four days to get into before evening mental-cravings subsided.

For newbies starting out, I was able and willing to eat anything I wanted for my meal(s) before noon, so I sometimes ate doritos and chocolate cookies, pizza, whatever. This way I did not create "deprivation", did create a "reward" and was able to transition smoothly.


It is very worth an experiment and it is advice found in the suttas. The major traditions have similar eating modifications, even if only once a year, and that points to a smart, universal experience/idea.

I'm a big fan of IF. I haven't noticed any major health or mental benefits. I like the feeling in my body of being able to fully digest during the fast and having a nice empty stomach before the next meal. I've enjoyed it like that since before I knew anything about what I was doing. I'm a natural meal-skipper, binger (opposite of Yadid).

Yadid, try eating more. Just shove it in there. Give it a shot.

Hey guys,

Something to consider (I found the entire article(s) very helpful...and so I share them).

Food for a Fast

…or if hardcore is your thing (also mentioned on Bagpuss’ Mark Sisson link):

Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration

One of the obvious perks is that you’d save on toilette paper, ‘there being 37-48 days between stools’ (unfortunately, this also means less fertilizer for those of you composting “humanure”).

+1 to fasting with spring/mineral water and a daily 8 hour eating window (as long as no hunger is experienced).

Regards,
Gabriel

Hi Gabriel - funny you should mention it. Humanure is one of my favorite books, just leafing through it this week...

I was doing one meal a day for a few months earlier this year, but found it almost impossible to eat enough to maintain weight and energy. Now I eat two meals. A sixteen hour gap between two meals is pretty common for me.

Oh I tried.

Do you mean trying to eat more during the first 2 meals and then do the no-dinner thing?

Forcing myself to eat more than I do is quite painful, I've done it before.

Hi Katy,

I knew we shared curiosity about similar things (and I found it funny when you mentioned Temple Grandin and Daniel Tammet, e.g.) but this is unprecedented... roughly seven years ago I endeavored to get friends and family interested in the book's philosophy, science, and/or (perish the thought!) its practical application... alas, my only volunteers were three dogs, two cats, an aging ferret, a sprightly sun conure, and several koi carps (and of course, “billions and billions” of thermophiles, mesophiles, psychrophiles, fungi, and actinomycetes).

One of the few books I haven't given away (although not for want of trying ;o).

Oh, to keep this post on topic... here's a pic of someone reading a book during an 18 hr fast.



Regards,
Gabriel

P.S. Perhaps, if you haven't seen it already, you'd enjoy The Man Who Planted Trees ( L'homme qui plantait des arbres)

Wow. L'homme qui plantait des arbres is one of my favorite short animations. Could it be 20 years since I saw it? Close. I have wished to see it again. Thank you.

So we have that, aging ferrets, conure, and the humanure handbook in common. I suppose I should call and check your availability for the next considered silkworn rearing sesh or all night tea slurp on a nearby hill.

And, à la planking, here's a person also reading the humanure handbook: (sorry: picture not coming through)

Ummm, back to the thread. Got to spend the past three days at local monastery and, of course, the vinaya is not to eat after noon. Awesome practice: breath. Tasty, tasty breath. Much better if on an relatively empty stomach, like going for a swim on a relatively empty stomach

Ha, you guys convinced me to try this out for real. Should implement around October (I am currently getting comfortable with a new weightlifting routine).

I agree. On retreat it is really conducive to alertness and clarity. I think it would be better if one ate in the evening though. Then at least it would be easier to get some sleep!



Bruno if you're lifting you might like to check out both the Lean Gains system as well as Mark Sisson's site.

Hi Bagpuss:
I know what you mean. I was, however, surprised at how well this not-eating-in-the-evening has even worked for me in lay life.

The first 3-4 days I was a bit stressed over it, even though I realize how, globally, many people deal with this by force of conditions. I am on the leaner side and certainly have spent most of my life eating throughout the day, known for my capacity to eat and remain lean. Genetics.

What I notice always is that I wake up not hungry when I do not eat before bed.

I don't do this no-evening eating all the time. When people visit, for example, it's normal to eat dinner together.

So when I re-start the eating modification, I have the opportunity to be mild in my approach (i.e. last meal at 5:30, then 4p.m., then 2:30, etc). I also try to use the evening as a vipassana sit. Just watch what the mind is demanding, versus what the stomach actually wants. I consistently notice that it is a mental din demanding, not the stomach. I also just keep promising myself: you can eat whatever tomorrow (bags of chips, etc). So far it takes 1-4 evenings to get into the habit, but then it makes time for other stuff, like great conditions for sitting -either just in sensate open awareness or in concentration.

You have kids, right? So I think this would be a challenge. So, there's at least one reason this eating modification may not be a precept for lay people.

Actually Im currently eating my last meal at 6pm, then bed around 10pm. Up at 6-7am, breakfast at 10am.

Seems to work pretty good. Mrs Bagpuss and I stopped eating after dinner quite some time ago (bar weekend flapjacks on occasion!) but like you I also find the evening meditation much more conducive on a relatively empty stomach and pre-breakfast sit to be VERY good --also despite "conventional wisdom" I can walk my dog for an hour, do some yoga, get my products packaged and ready for the courier and get an hours sit in before breakfast and feel great

I was talking with Mrs B today and we both agree life is better with less food. Partly cos when you eat, you REALLY enjoy it!

ADDED: re Kids --easier if anything. It seems to even out daily stresses to some degree also.