Kundalini or Enlightenment?

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John P, modified 8 Years ago.

Kundalini or Enlightenment?

Posts: 155 Join Date: 1/24/12 Recent Posts
The other day I was reading some texts from KFD, and found one that went against my current beliefs, and would like to discuss it with the members here, please do point it out my misconceptions, and in a way as gentle and non-dogmatic as possible. If I disagree with something, I most likely will question more.
Yes, I do think this would matter for my practice

The text I read was Realization and Development, and the part I disagreed more specifically was:
According to Ramana, there is an energy that develops within the body, moving gradually upward with time and practice. It eventually rises out of the crown shakra at the top of the head, curves around, and comes to rest at the heart center, thereby permanently completing the circuit.*
This is the best description of arahatship that I have ever heard! This takes "full enlightenment" out of the realm of the speculative and plants it squarely in the realm of, as I call it, the physio-energetic. Arahatship, the logical culmination of development practice, is a normal, organic, human, biological process that is, according to Ramana, Gotama Buddha, and many others, accessible to ordinary people. Once again, the centuries of hero-worship and wishful thinking that grew like barnacles over the core reality of the experience have been shaken off. Ramana, speaking with the simple authority of personal experience, repeatedly denied having supernatural powers, and insisted that anyone could do what he had done.


The way in which it disagrees with my current beliefs it that, I believe that such a description is the description of Kundalini(which I must admit I don't understand much beyond that it gives one great mental power and health), and is not the description of the buddhist enlightenment as usually seen in this forum.
I believe enlightenment to a person is in the face of the nature of things(impermanence, not-self and suffering) to become a deeply peaceful, satisfied and possibly compassionate person.

One can say it's just a matter of definition, but is it? That's what I want to ask. Can you only attain perfect inner stillness only with such an experience? What does one get with it?
One of the reasons I don't believe that description is of enlightenment is Justine's "Biography" page:

) I was born in 1951, in Tamilnadu, INDIA. I was a Government Stenographer by profession.
2) For 35 long years, I was an ardent spiritual practitioner, first in deep Catholic Christian faith.
3) And then, as a meditator in the traditional yoga path, of Indian spirituality. I was blessed with successful kundalini awakening, and enlightenment, with the help of my spiritual Guru.
4) But, I found to my utter consternation, that I was not having real peace, happiness, and freedom.
5) On 19-2-2007, 12-15 PM, I casually stumbled upon a website, www.actualfreedom.com.au. I am happy to say, I found actual Peace and Freedom there.

6) Soon, I was officially declared by Richard, the progenitor of AF, that I have become actually free, as the first one, without ever having met him in person, or having had any mail contact with him, and just by reading his web site.
7)This is my personal experience. It is not my intention,to hurt anyone’s faith, or finer sensibilities.

8) Each one has freedom, to choose one’s own way.
9) DISCLAIMER: The Author and Owner of this site ‘Actual Freedom Justine’, shall not be responsible for the results of any actions arising out of the use of any information in this blog nor for any errors or omissions contained therein. The Author expressly disclaim all liability to any person in respect of anything and the consequences of anything done or omitted to be done by any such person in reliance, whether whole or partial upon the whole or any part of the contents.


Thank you for your attention
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Nikolai ., modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Kundalini or Enlightenment?

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
John P:


The way in which it disagrees with my current beliefs it that, I believe that such a description is the description of Kundalini(which I must admit I don't understand much beyond that it gives one great mental power and health), and is not the description of the buddhist enlightenment as usually seen in this forum.
I believe enlightenment to a person is in the face of the nature of things(impermanence, not-self and suffering) to become a deeply peaceful, satisfied and possibly compassionate person.

One can say it's just a matter of definition, but is it? That's what I want to ask. Can you only attain perfect inner stillness only with such an experience? What does one get with it?


I think it is a matter of what definition of whatever concept (such as 'enlightenment') one assigns to an experience and whether there is some group consensus to re-enforce such a view. I think it best be left asid if it doesn'tfit the paradigm that you adhere to. Perhaps you may experience some weird stuff that could be assigned 'meaning' but does assigning 'meaning' to such experiences fit with the objective of the paradigm that you adhere to? or does it mess with it, insert doubt into one's mind?


One of the reasons I don't believe that description is of enlightenment is Justine's "Biography" page:

) I was born in 1951, in Tamilnadu, INDIA. I was a Government Stenographer by profession.
2) For 35 long years, I was an ardent spiritual practitioner, first in deep Catholic Christian faith.
3) And then, as a meditator in the traditional yoga path, of Indian spirituality. I was blessed with successful kundalini awakening, and enlightenment, with the help of my spiritual Guru.
4) But, I found to my utter consternation, that I was not having real peace, happiness, and freedom.
5) On 19-2-2007, 12-15 PM, I casually stumbled upon a website, www.actualfreedom.com.au. I am happy to say, I found actual Peace and Freedom there.

6) Soon, I was officially declared by Richard, the progenitor of AF, that I have become actually free, as the first one, without ever having met him in person, or having had any mail contact with him, and just by reading his web site.
7)This is my personal experience. It is not my intention,to hurt anyone’s faith, or finer sensibilities.

8) Each one has freedom, to choose one’s own way.
9) DISCLAIMER: The Author and Owner of this site ‘Actual Freedom Justine’, shall not be responsible for the results of any actions arising out of the use of any information in this blog nor for any errors or omissions contained therein. The Author expressly disclaim all liability to any person in respect of anything and the consequences of anything done or omitted to be done by any such person in reliance, whether whole or partial upon the whole or any part of the contents.


Thank you for your attention


More definitions of the concept of 'enlightenment', oh my. Stick with what works for and motivates 'you' to keep at your chosen practice. Kundalini schmini......unless the concept of 'kundalini' is part of your paradigm, I'd drop all thought on it if not. I went through a similar pondering a while back. I then dropped it when I saw it was just one aspect of possible development which could be assigned whatever meaning one wanted to...such as the concept of 'kundalini' or whatever. Further permanent baseline shifts showed me that adhering to the concept of 'kundalini' had little to do motivating me to do what needed to be done.

Nick
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James Yen, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Kundalini or Enlightenment?

Posts: 270 Join Date: 9/6/09 Recent Posts
I see.

I think the issue you're getting at is:

"How can a physio-energetic process be related to theravada enlightenment?"

And I totally agree!

To me they are, well first of all I don't believe there is such and such a "valid" physio-energetic process that actually occurs, to me the only game in town is classical theravada enlightenment.

For me it takes years of working with emptiness (as per gradual slope metaphor of the Buddha) to reach the goal, BUT:

Even though it may be hard for you to see a link between Bodhi and kundalini/energetic practices, they may in fact be helpful.

Though for the most part I did not think they were, they are however, merit producing, if you like that stuff.

Peace!
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Pablo . P, modified 8 Years ago.

RE: Kundalini or Enlightenment?

Posts: 379 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
You may already know this, but as far as I know, "kundalini" and "completing the circuit" are two different stages in the energetic path paradigma, that parallels "arising and passing" and "4 path". Check out the book "Tao & Longevity" from Huai-Chin Nan, that gives a description of how Taoist and Buddhist paths run side by side, just different cultural approaches from a NLP point of view.