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New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path

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New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/17/12 9:53 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Adam . . 12/17/12 11:17 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 1:41 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path N A 12/18/12 1:34 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Bagpuss The Gnome 12/18/12 3:29 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 7:58 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Bagpuss The Gnome 12/18/12 9:35 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 10:59 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Some Guy 12/18/12 11:01 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Florian 12/18/12 11:18 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Some Guy 12/18/12 11:20 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 11:33 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Some Guy 12/18/12 11:45 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Ona Kiser 12/18/12 11:42 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 11:24 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 11:28 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Bagpuss The Gnome 12/18/12 11:46 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andy W 12/24/12 11:17 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Pål S. 12/18/12 8:59 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 9:19 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 9:35 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 12:22 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 12/18/12 1:27 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 1:49 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 2:03 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 12/18/12 4:40 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 5:32 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 12/18/12 6:26 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 7:08 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 12/19/12 4:48 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Daniel M. Ingram 12/21/12 2:32 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/21/12 8:07 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Daniel M. Ingram 12/21/12 4:54 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/22/12 1:13 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andrew K 12/22/12 5:40 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/22/12 11:06 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/22/12 11:23 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 12/22/12 11:38 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 1/3/13 11:18 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path MuMuWu MuMuMuMu 1/3/13 1:56 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Steph S 1/3/13 4:06 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Ona Kiser 12/21/12 5:41 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andy W 12/24/12 11:22 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andrew K 12/24/12 2:30 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Derek 12/24/12 5:41 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andy W 12/24/12 5:52 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Derek 12/24/12 6:02 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/24/12 9:41 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Ona Kiser 12/25/12 1:49 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Daniel M. Ingram 12/26/12 4:14 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Andrew K 1/2/13 3:49 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 1/2/13 7:04 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Daniel M. Ingram 1/3/13 2:04 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/18/12 7:33 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/18/12 11:11 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Alan Smithee 12/19/12 3:37 AM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Ona Kiser 12/19/12 12:45 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Fitter Stoke 12/19/12 1:17 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Rod C 1/7/13 11:19 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Curt Welling 1/7/13 1:52 PM
RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path Jane Laurel Carrington 1/7/13 8:54 PM
The article is called "The Anxiety of the Long Distance Meditator" by Jeff Warren. I have mixed feelings about the article but it is indeed interesting. Hardcore Dharma goes mainstream, or something. Big thanks to my pal Buddy for emailing me the article.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/the-anxiety-of-the-long-distance-meditator/#postComment

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/17/12 11:17 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
*shudders*

(maybe my response has to do with reading the comments)

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 1:41 AM as a reply to Adam . ..
Adam . .:
*shudders*

(maybe my response has to do with reading the comments)


I know. The public appears completely confused. Per usual.

Here are some of the choicer tidbits...

"To be clear, meditation can be a good remedy for people of mental afflictions."

"Our lives are filled with stream-entry experiences [...] Life is not a silent retreat."

"Self absorbed belly button lint picking. If you want enlightenment go help someone in need."

"You did everything right, and discovered everything that needs to be discovered [...] The most wonderful and sublime quality of meditation is that it has no purpose. It takes a lot of meditation to discover this. It's a radical concept."

"This is great--it's so much better that the meditator doesn't get stream entry. I like that he fails, and that the teacher is disappointed [...] Does this mean I am enlightened?"

"I have had a 'stream entry' moment, but I cheated: I got it from a psychedelic mushroom trip."

"Doesn't Buddhism stress a connection with a community? This sounds awful."

"Watching a TV commercial about erectile dysfunction, it suddenly occurred to me that, in advancing age, erectile function is abnormal and so-called erectile dysfunction is normal. For some odd reason, we think it is natural to continue functioning sexually way into old age, but we are wrong. Nature has other plans. Just so, it just might be, that the anxiety we feel over the separation between self and... everything else, is normal. It's an understanding of the natural, real state of existence. Meditation, drugs, and various other techniques are like those drugs that address erectile dysfunction--an attempt to alter the natural state of affairs."

"There are people, albeit a rarefied bunch, who can practice like a wounded deer"

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 1:34 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Expect more stuff like that on the DhO in the near future!

N A:
Expect more stuff like that on the DhO in the near future!


Nah, that blog post will be forgotten in an instant I reckon. It'd take a much more thorough piece in the mainstream website/paper to cause a ruckus...

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 7:58 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
"This is great--it's so much better that the meditator doesn't get stream entry. I like that he fails, and that the teacher is disappointed [...] Does this mean I am enlightened?"


That one is my favorite. Describes the Western dharma experience perfectly.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 8:59 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Why oh why does it have to be so fantastical? The more obscure and wrong the comment is the more 'likes' it gets... I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Pål S.:
Why oh why does it have to be so fantastical? The more obscure and wrong the comment is the more 'likes' it gets... I don't want to live on this planet anymore.


Unless you develop a thick skin toward this kind of stuff, you can never go on group retreat.

We need our own, hardcore retreat center, where we can all crackle with the intensity of ninjas!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 9:35 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
"This is great--it's so much better that the meditator doesn't get stream entry. I like that he fails, and that the teacher is disappointed [...] Does this mean I am enlightened?"


That one is my favorite. Describes the Western dharma experience perfectly.


Doesn't it just? I swear at one place here in the UK the teacher would likely faint at the temerity of even suggesting stream entry as a serious goal! emoticon

Pål S.:
Why oh why does it have to be so fantastical? The more obscure and wrong the comment is the more 'likes' it gets... I don't want to live on this planet anymore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQst2mFlJM

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 10:59 AM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
Bagpuss The Gnome:
Fitter Stoke:
"This is great--it's so much better that the meditator doesn't get stream entry. I like that he fails, and that the teacher is disappointed [...] Does this mean I am enlightened?"


That one is my favorite. Describes the Western dharma experience perfectly.


Doesn't it just? I swear at one place here in the UK the teacher would likely faint at the temerity of even suggesting stream entry as a serious goal! emoticon


If the comment had said, "I like that he fails, and that the teacher is happy," it would have been a perfect fit.

I used to sit with a group of people at someone's house nearby. They were all very nice, and the couple who owned the place was gracious enough to allow people, some of them strangers, to use their home as a practice space for a full day of silent meditation. And so I would try to remind myself of this, over and over, when the spirit of defeatism was especially thick, which it often was.

Everyone was really sickly looking: pale to the point of being translucent. And at the end, when it was time to share the results of the day's practice, there were nothing but reports of being tired, being sad, being defeated, and being "okay" with all of that.

I'm not proud of this, but when it was my turn to share, I would just lie and say, "Nothing really to report. It was great to share today with you all. Namaste," even if I had just accessed whatever jhanas and gotten a fruition so strong it nearly picked me up off the cushion.

The guy running it once said, "We've all been doing this for years now, and we know we're not going to see anything new" - and he said it as something positive. I'm almost certain no one in the room was above the A&P.

The culture is really about celebrating being frail, celebrating sucking, celebrating failure. I saw the same thing at a major retreat center (a center which I'm sure all these people have been to many times). If you come out and say, "I did these practices like this, these were the results, I got into these states, and I've passed through these stages," you're going to be ostracized. Anything other than, "I failed, and that's super," is going to be treated as suspect.

For some reason I was under the impression that things were not this bad in the UK.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:01 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
The culture is really about celebrating being frail, celebrating sucking, celebrating failure. I saw the same thing at a major retreat center (a center which I'm sure all these people have been to many times). If you come out and say, "I did these practices like this, these were the results, I got into these states, and I've passed through these stages," you're going to be ostracized. Anything other than, "I failed, and that's super," is going to be treated as suspect.


That's why this article is a really good thing. It really doesn't matter if the commenters don't get it, or if 98% of readers don't get it. Just as we all found our way here or to MCTB through some link or other, a few others now will too. A few of those will put the instructions to practice. That's how meditation culture will change. And we're not afraid of change, right? Riiiight.

This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:18 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
Jason B:
This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.


And it's happened before, when there was a Buddhist Geeks interview with Daniel, sending lots of new participants to the DhO a few years ago.

Cheers,
Florian

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:20 AM as a reply to Florian.
Florian Weps:
And it's happened before, when there was a Buddhist Geeks interview with Daniel, sending lots of new participants to the DhO a few years ago.


That was probably me. I really appreciated everyone tolerating my cluelessness. (Still do!)

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:24 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
Jason B:
Fitter Stoke:
The culture is really about celebrating being frail, celebrating sucking, celebrating failure. I saw the same thing at a major retreat center (a center which I'm sure all these people have been to many times). If you come out and say, "I did these practices like this, these were the results, I got into these states, and I've passed through these stages," you're going to be ostracized. Anything other than, "I failed, and that's super," is going to be treated as suspect.


That's why this article is a really good thing. It really doesn't matter if the commenters don't get it, or if 98% of readers don't get it. Just as we all found our way here or to MCTB through some link or other, a few others now will too. A few of those will put the instructions to practice. That's how meditation culture will change. And we're not afraid of change, right? Riiiight.

This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.


You mean more and more people might get turned onto Dan's "lurid" book as a result of this article?

Wait a minute. Lurid?

Wtf.

Plus, the article doesn't do a very good job of conveying Dan's particular type of energy, intelligence, charisma, and generosity [he's given me advice numerous time, etc.]: "Eyes shock-widened," his body "humming with energy," clapping real loud, all the while making "strange guttural clicks as he moved, like the bionic man" doesn't quite cut it in my book.

My immediate reaction after reading this article was that I could write a better one, which more precisely captures the wonky and controversial but vital spirit of Hardcore Dharma, Dan, and the craziness of sitting on long retreats.

It seems like perhaps the author Jeff Warren may have had [in the end] some kind of unresolved issues with Dan [felt that Dan was disappointed in him, etc.] which I think ended up getting translated into the article's weird tone.

Plus, I think the word "lurid" to describe MCTOB is just plain inaccurate and gives the wrong impression.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:28 AM as a reply to Some Guy.
Jason B:
Fitter Stoke:
The culture is really about celebrating being frail, celebrating sucking, celebrating failure. I saw the same thing at a major retreat center (a center which I'm sure all these people have been to many times). If you come out and say, "I did these practices like this, these were the results, I got into these states, and I've passed through these stages," you're going to be ostracized. Anything other than, "I failed, and that's super," is going to be treated as suspect.


That's why this article is a really good thing. It really doesn't matter if the commenters don't get it, or if 98% of readers don't get it. Just as we all found our way here or to MCTB through some link or other, a few others now will too. A few of those will put the instructions to practice. That's how meditation culture will change. And we're not afraid of change, right? Riiiight.

This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.


This sounds about right.

Most of the people writing those comments - as well as most of the hyperpsychologized dharma tourists at the retreat centers - aren't going to get interested in the stuff we're doing, will continue to buy Buddha figurines, will continue to titter when someone mentions "enlightenment" or "stream-entry", and will continue with their "namastes". It won't make any difference.

What's exciting is the thought of an entirely new generation getting turned on to serious meditative and contemplative technologies, putting those to use in a serious way, and adding their results to the ongoing experiment we've got going on.

At the moment, the majority of people doing that are pretty adventurous and don't mind being on the fringes of things (and may even enjoy that aspect of it). But might the kind of stuff we're doing here one day be as mainstream as something like MBSR or "mindfulness"? Maybe. I doubt most people would have expected to see this practice mentioned anywhere in the NYT, ever. So who knows what's possible?

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:33 AM as a reply to Florian.
Florian Weps:
Jason B:
This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.


And it's happened before, when there was a Buddhist Geeks interview with Daniel, sending lots of new participants to the DhO a few years ago.

Cheers,
Florian


Weirdly - or not - I found MCTB by doing a Google search on "vipassana vendetta".

Also, I didn't find the NYT piece that bad. I agree, the author had some projection issues going on with Daniel, but it's not surprising that something like that would happen if you're doing a month-long, intense retreat like that with a guy. I thought Daniel's manic intensity came across nicely. Maybe that doesn't appeal to everyone, but then none of this stuff we're doing appeals to everyone. So who cares?

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:42 AM as a reply to Florian.
Florian Weps:
Jason B:
This thread reminds me a little of the hipster war-cry: I liked enlightenment before it was big. And that may be a good analogy for the developmental stage of pragmatic dharma right now. Maybe it's about to get big. In an age of viral marketing, it almost has to grow. I suspect people feel a bit threatened that our cozy little community could get blown-up by tourists. Personally, I think the forums could use some fresh input, even if it's from the poor and huddled masses. All you Buddhas can take it.


And it's happened before, when there was a Buddhist Geeks interview with Daniel, sending lots of new participants to the DhO a few years ago.

Cheers,
Florian


That's how I discovered the possibility of awakening, too: the Buddhist Geeks interview. I imagine there are some who will read that article and think "Whoa! There are people who really go for it? There are teachers who talk about enlightenment? This is something I can really do?" and their lives will be forever changed.

The desire to feel special or belong to a group of superior, cooler-than-average people is one I've experienced myself in many contexts including spiritual practice. It can be a motivating concept.

But given it's a glob of attachments and aversions it usually falls apart with enough practice.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:46 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter:
Most of the people writing those comments - as well as most of the hyperpsychologized dharma tourists at the retreat centers - aren't going to get interested in the stuff we're doing, will continue to buy Buddha figurines, will continue to titter when someone mentions "enlightenment" or "stream-entry", and will continue with their "namastes". It won't make any difference.


Had I been drinking coffee, Id now be wiping it off the screen heh!

Fitter:

What's exciting is the thought of an entirely new generation getting turned on to serious meditative and contemplative technologies, putting those to use in a serious way, and adding their results to the ongoing experiment we've got going on.


Agreed. Though I'd like to see more people publishing results from other techniques as well as noting.

Fitter:

At the moment, the majority of people doing that are pretty adventurous and don't mind being on the fringes of things (and may even enjoy that aspect of it). But might the kind of stuff we're doing here one day be as mainstream as something like MBSR or "mindfulness"? Maybe. I doubt most people would have expected to see this practice mentioned anywhere in the NYT, ever. So who knows what's possible?


The mindulness/MBSR route really is the kind of thing it will take. Plain language, easily taught, supported etc. Minus the dogma. Unfortunately it will take more than a loose committee of enlightened folks to agree terminology. It will take one brilliant spark. Shinzen Young is about the closest we currently have to that I think, but even he's not going to take it all the way I reckon. Maybe it can't be taken all the way like "mindfulness". After all, it's a bit more complex and the qualifications for teaching it a little harder to attain. (if you could do an 8wk course and get enlightened I'd have done it! heh).

Daniel might be able to do it. But we'd have to magic him a bucket load of extra time and income emoticon

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:45 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
The use of the word lurid was odd. It almost sounds like a student writer picked a near-synonym from a thesaurus without knowing the real meaning. But if you read newspapers, you modulate your expectations. Reporting of health and science news in the NYT is ghastly. But publicity is publicity, with all its indispensable and lurid connotations.

BTW, as the comment thread over there grows there is a smattering of informed views.

[Googling vipassana vendetta.]

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 12:22 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Ron Crouch left a good reply:

The comments show how unfamiliar people are with this path being described. Some comments are referring to satori, others to loving-kindness, others to devotional service and so on. They are all like the blind man and the elephant, each describing this article in terms of the particular part of the dharma elephant they know. That is the state of the modern Buddhism though - it's not surprising.

Forget what you know about the Buddhism for a minute and take this path on its own merits. What is being described in the article is the variant of Buddhism called "insight" or "vipassana" practice. It isn't Zen, Tibetan or Metta practice, it is the predominant style of meditation taught in Southeast Asia. The vipassana path is indeed made up of states and stages. So working to attain them is not spiritual materialism - it is good solid practice, and any Sayadaw or Ajahn would laude Jeff for his hard work (though the ending was disappointing - don't give up Jeff!).

The states and stages are not the creation of Dr. Ingram. They were first written about thousands of years ago in ancient meditation manuals (check out the Vimuttimagga and Visuddhimagga if you're geeky). They were explained in a more modern fashion by Mahasi Sayadaw in this century in his manual "The Progress of Insight."

Don't fall in the trap of thinking that the "Path" is a vague kind of personal growth one enjoys by meditating or is only the way it is presented in one corner of Buddhism. Look into vipassana yourself.


And then there's this:

Aha, I think the truth is your experience was a complete success–because you failed! The whole point is to fail [...] So I say well done! Be well and keep failing.


Namaste! emoticon

EDIT: Here's another great one:

Advice to the public, stay away from anyone who claims to be an advanced meditation teacher... "The Arahat?". There is a reason it's called the middle path. The Buddha himself was an aesthetic before rejecting that path and the many fantastical states of mind such practice brings.


The Buddha spent many years before his enlightenment visiting art museums and writing concert reviews.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 1:27 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
I tried to post a reply but it got released before it was finished. Oh well. Also posted a reply to "failure-yay!" guy. But I might as well save my breath.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 1:49 PM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
Jane Laurel Carrington:
I tried to post a reply but it got released before it was finished. Oh well. Also posted a reply to "failure-yay!" guy. But I might as well save my breath.


Failing is the new winning is the new failing.

If that sounds like nonsense, it's probably because you're using your rational mind to try to figure it out. You just need to feel it.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 2:03 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Finally someone posted a link to Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha in the comments section...

Oh wait, that person was me ;-)

[My spelling was awful, though. And no way to correct it. Blarg.]

Maybe some defeatist meditators out there will read it and be inspired to tap some attainments!

Reading the comments section is like seeing the sad, defeatist, low-expectation, goaless heart of American Buddhism. It's a particularly dismal, depressing sociological learning experience.

"The whole concept of meditating to accomplish something is a bit flawed. From my perspective as a meditator for 15 years, I would say that you can use meditation to lessen anxiety..."

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 4:40 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
The important thing is not to be surprised. I told a friend about this stuff, one of these people who's totally into the local Buddhist scene and talks a lot about how it's turned her life around, and her comment was, "Oh, that sounds like too much work. I work hard at my job, I don't want to have to face that kind of thinking in my practice." Then the last time rereading Daniel's book I noticed his theory, that the way Buddhism manifests in a culture often reflects that culture's shadow. So American goal-directed people want their Buddhist practice to be mellow and meandering. This sounds about right.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 5:32 PM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
Another important thing is to be thankful:

  • That Daniel wrote his book
  • That he led the charge and took all the arrows in his back for it
  • That people interested in high attainment rallied around the message in MCTB
  • That this community formed around it
  • That there's now tons of support for advanced practice
  • And probably many other things I can't think to mention right now.


We're seriously lucky. Imagine how long it would take us to get this done and how hard it would be if there weren't all these resources in the form of articles, books, bulletin boards, and great people. Imagine if your only models for practice were like those people leaving comments, or teachers who look you in the eye and tell you "great practice!" when your practice sucks, or who won't tell you how to clear stream-entry and therefore destine you to fall back to dark night.

We are really lucky.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 6:26 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
And don't forget to be grateful for whatever karma led us to take it up and work with it, instead of blowing it off, as so many others do. I am totally, totally with you here, Fitter Stoke. I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books (I know, that's twisted, but there it is). And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you "that" look, like you're some sort of cultist. But that's okay; I've got you lovely people, and that's just plain wonderful.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 7:08 PM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
Jane Laurel Carrington:
And don't forget to be grateful for whatever karma led us to take it up and work with it, instead of blowing it off, as so many others do. I am totally, totally with you here, Fitter Stoke. I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books (I know, that's twisted, but there it is). And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you "that" look, like you're some sort of cultist. But that's okay; I've got you lovely people, and that's just plain wonderful.


Aww. You're just a sweetie, aren't you? I wish you had been one of my professors. By the way, what do you teach?

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 7:33 PM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
Jane Laurel Carrington:
And don't forget to be grateful for whatever karma led us to take it up and work with it, instead of blowing it off, as so many others do. I am totally, totally with you here, Fitter Stoke. I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books (I know, that's twisted, but there it is). And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you "that" look, like you're some sort of cultist. But that's okay; I've got you lovely people, and that's just plain wonderful.


It'll be a lot easier to share the book once it has Andy's new cover.



No crackling ninjas here!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/18/12 11:11 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
Jane Laurel Carrington:
And don't forget to be grateful for whatever karma led us to take it up and work with it, instead of blowing it off, as so many others do. I am totally, totally with you here, Fitter Stoke. I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books (I know, that's twisted, but there it is). And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you "that" look, like you're some sort of cultist. But that's okay; I've got you lovely people, and that's just plain wonderful.


It'll be a lot easier to share the book once it has Andy's new cover.



No crackling ninjas here!


Hilarious.

Although, for the newly revised, "friendly" version, it should be subtitled "An Unusually Centered and Balanced Dharma Book..." Included will be a CD of guided meditations by Dan Ingram on how to "let go" of your workplace stress, accompanied by background pan flute music.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/19/12 3:37 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Daniel posted this to his blog...


NYT Article by Jeff Warren
December 17, 2012 by Daniel Ingram

Hey, if you saw this article in the Opinionator in the NYT, this post is for you.

First: Jeff is a heck of a brave guy to come down here and brave the sweaty wilds of his mind and Alabama in the summertime, away from the comfort of his polar bears and igloos in the Frozen North. ;)

Second: Thanks to him for his writing about his experiences. I must say, his crawling around on the floor like a spider on anabolic steroids was truly priceless, as were his very strong and heartfelt attempts at the high end of insight practice.

It was great getting to know him and watching him engage in the classic struggle to be ok and really directly clear, right here and right now. Sounds so easy until you try it, and then try it again hour after hour after hour, particularly in the company of one such as myself, and then you will likely see why not everyone is doing this, as it generally is strangely vexing, as he and so many others have found, and yet so rewarding in its way also, as he mentions.

I have no idea what to do with this sort of press at this point except to refer people elsewhere, as I am up to my balding pate in work, work, and work, and so have little time for any of it at the moment, but wish you a great journey into sensate clarity and wisdom, which is the most rewarding and interesting journey of them all. The resources and supports for this are nearly endless these days, with zillions of books, many great places to practice, a new proliferation of strong practitioners, remarkable online dharma communities, an opening of the previously closed culture surrounding high-end practice, etc.

In case you for some reason wanted to give this a try, there are many fine Houses of Insight, such as IMS, Spirit Rock, Tathagata, Bhavana Society, Shinzen Young, Kenneth Folk, Vince Horn, Goenka, etc. where you may give it a go.

Best of luck in your quest, and be sure to check out Jeff's very interesting book Head Trip, as it is a remarkable book by a remarkable man,

Daniel

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/19/12 12:45 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
The Times also posted this today: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/world/asia/thai-buddhist-monks-struggle-to-stay-relevant.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

About how monasteries are losing monks in Thailand and fewer people bother to join or send their kids or even go to the temples. One monk says that people these days want everything to be like instant noodles, quick and easy, so maybe they have to repackage Buddhism to reach the modern population....

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/19/12 1:17 PM as a reply to Ona Kiser.
Ona Kiser:
The Times also posted this today: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/world/asia/thai-buddhist-monks-struggle-to-stay-relevant.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

About how monasteries are losing monks in Thailand and fewer people bother to join or send their kids or even go to the temples. One monk says that people these days want everything to be like instant noodles, quick and easy, so maybe they have to repackage Buddhism to reach the modern population....


We tend to think Buddhism is very spiritual, but if you live in Thailand, it's just religion. And the number of people in the world who no longer consider themselves religious is large and growing.

And here in the U.S., it's not clear that the consensus Buddhism/spiritual-but-not-religious crowd - exemplified in the comments on the NYT piece - is fairing any better. It's still largely a phenomenon particular to white, middle-class Baby Boomers, reflecting their political and social values and views on the world. Thankfully the importance of that demographic appears to be decreasing.

Which is yet another reason it's hard for me to feel bothered by the "mushroom culture". They're becoming less and less relevant.

Of course, whether the sort of stuff we're doing is becoming more relevant is up for debate. It's becoming harder to ignore, though; that's for sure.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/19/12 4:48 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Alan Smithee:
Jane Laurel Carrington:
And don't forget to be grateful for whatever karma led us to take it up and work with it, instead of blowing it off, as so many others do. I am totally, totally with you here, Fitter Stoke. I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books (I know, that's twisted, but there it is). And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you "that" look, like you're some sort of cultist. But that's okay; I've got you lovely people, and that's just plain wonderful.


Aww. You're just a sweetie, aren't you? I wish you had been one of my professors. By the way, what do you teach?


History. The European variety. I have a lot of fun when I get to the medieval mystics. I have a lot more to say about them now.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/21/12 2:32 AM as a reply to Jane Laurel Carrington.
I am really happy to have you all around as well and thankful to this and its sister communities for everything they do and stand for. Your comments and support are kind and appreciated, and I am really grateful to have you all as friends and comrades.

Andy sent me some drafts of his cover suggestions, but after suggestions like those above, strangely I think it would be just totally hilarious to have one of the tongue-in-cheek ones on it: will have to see what Oliver Rathbone, my publisher, thinks of that.

Here are a few of them. I think they are all good, but somehow the idea of having a really funny one just tickles me.

The NYT article and its comments are all obviously not how things would go in an ideal world, but, given that I have been online in various forms and on various forums and open about these things since the late 90's and still remember well what the comments back then about these sorts of things were like (basically universally horrid), we have come a very, very long way in a remarkably short period of time, and so, oddly, I find those comments encouraging. I do truly hope that we don't get invaded like after the Buddhist Geeks podcast, as that was ugly for nearly a year until things calmed down after the First Great Schism.

I am quitting my current job and taking one that will give me better boundaries on my time and more time for things like the DhO, hopefully that transition will happen late March or so if all goes well, depending on how long it takes to get a Mississippi medical license, which apparently is a really long time.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/21/12 8:07 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
I am really happy to have you all around as well and thankful to this and its sister communities for everything they do and stand for. Your comments and support are kind and appreciated, and I am really grateful to have you all as friends and comrades.

Andy sent me some drafts of his cover suggestions, but after suggestions like those above, strangely I think it would be just totally hilarious to have one of the tongue-in-cheek ones on it: will have to see what Oliver Rathbone, my publisher, thinks of that.

Here are a few of them. I think they are all good, but somehow the idea of having a really funny one just tickles me.

The NYT article and its comments are all obviously not how things would go in an ideal world, but, given that I have been online in various forms and on various forums and open about these things since the late 90's and still remember well what the comments back then about these sorts of things were like (basically universally horrid), we have come a very, very long way in a remarkably short period of time, and so, oddly, I find those comments encouraging. I do truly hope that we don't get invaded like after the Buddhist Geeks podcast, as that was ugly for nearly a year until things calmed down after the First Great Schism.

I am quitting my current job and taking one that will give me better boundaries on my time and more time for things like the DhO, hopefully that transition will happen late March or so if all goes well, depending on how long it takes to get a Mississippi medical license, which apparently is a really long time.


I like them all, though I nearly had an A&P just looking at the bottom one! Awesome.

If you go with the soft, friendly, lavender/gold-lettered, New Age approach, you absolutely have to do the meditation CD with pan pipes (and babbling brook and maybe crackling fire) in the background - and call it "Peaceful Perspective" or "Seeds of Change, with Daniel Ingram" - but talk the way you normally do.

Edit: You should invite submissions for the Foreword and pick the best one!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/21/12 4:54 PM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Consider the Invitation Sent! Thanks for offering. It would be great to hear what you all come up with.

Daniel

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/21/12 5:41 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel - good luck with the job/move transition. I hope that works out for you. I do think whichever cover is chosen you should keep the subtitle (an unusually hardcore dharma book) as that conveys something about the tone and teaching.

Cheers, Ona

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/22/12 1:13 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
Consider the Invitation Sent! Thanks for offering. It would be great to hear what you all come up with.

Daniel


Perhaps instead of Ms. Jane Rainbow's quote, you could just use one of the comments from the New York Times article, such as...

"Self absorbed belly button lint picking. If you want enlightenment go help someone in need."

"To be clear, meditation can be a good remedy for people of mental afflictions."

"The most wonderful and sublime quality of meditation is that it has no purpose. It takes a lot of meditation to discover this. It's a radical concept."

"Watching a TV commercial about erectile dysfunction, it suddenly occurred to me that, in advancing age, erectile function is abnormal and so-called erectile dysfunction is normal [...] Meditation, drugs, and various other techniques are like those drugs that address erectile dysfunction--an attempt to alter the natural state of affairs."

"There are people, albeit a rarefied bunch, who can practice like a wounded deer"

Or you could put a modified version of Jane's quote:

"I consider MCTB to be the most influential book of my entire life, and I've built my life around reading books [...] And it's awfully hard to share it with anyone, because when you try they give you 'that' look, like you're some sort of cultist."

Or Fitter's

"Failing is the new winning is the new failing. If that sounds like nonsense, it's probably because you're using your rational mind to try to figure it out. You just need to feel it."

Or perhaps my favorite:

"Cultivate the crackling intensity of the ninja” ~ Daniel Ingram

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/22/12 5:40 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Having a funny cover is a great idea, I guess the hard part would be finding the balance between too subtle/ironic and too over the top. Like, the Jane Rainbow cover before, most people wouldn't get the joke (in the sense that they would mistake it for exactly THAT type of book). IMHO the humour would have to be broad enough to not be confined to just being a snipe at the "mushroom culture" of the current tiny slice of history (and why always be reminded of it, every time we pick up the book?), so instead I think stuff like the "crackling intensity of a ninja" quote is a better idea.

I guess what I'm getting at is, this type of humour is great and all, but I wonder if it can be understood by people outside our community. So like, at the time when we all first got to know about MTCB, the fact that it was serious about itself (and had a "serious" cover) helped us take the whole thing seriously, enlightenment and practice, right? It all came together in a unified sort of way.

So I worry that the 2nd book might actually have the effect of repelling those lost seekers who aren't familiar enough with the subtle ironic humour or the "mushroom culture". So it wouldn't bring in the type of people who really need it.

Unless of course the 2nd book is mainly designed for people who have already read the first?


Definitely keep the subtitle!


FWIW, I strongly prefer the 3rd cover of those you posted, but none of them come close to the original MCTB cover

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/22/12 11:06 AM as a reply to Andrew K.
Andrew Ken:
Having a funny cover is a great idea, I guess the hard part would be finding the balance between too subtle/ironic and too over the top. Like, the Jane Rainbow cover before, most people wouldn't get the joke (in the sense that they would mistake it for exactly THAT type of book). IMHO the humour would have to be broad enough to not be confined to just being a snipe at the "mushroom culture" of the current tiny slice of history (and why always be reminded of it, every time we pick up the book?), so instead I think stuff like the "crackling intensity of a ninja" quote is a better idea.

I guess what I'm getting at is, this type of humour is great and all, but I wonder if it can be understood by people outside our community. So like, at the time when we all first got to know about MTCB, the fact that it was serious about itself (and had a "serious" cover) helped us take the whole thing seriously, enlightenment and practice, right? It all came together in a unified sort of way.

So I worry that the 2nd book might actually have the effect of repelling those lost seekers who aren't familiar enough with the subtle ironic humour or the "mushroom culture". So it wouldn't bring in the type of people who really need it.

Unless of course the 2nd book is mainly designed for people who have already read the first?


Definitely keep the subtitle!


FWIW, I strongly prefer the 3rd cover of those you posted, but none of them come close to the original MCTB cover


We live in the age of The Onion. People would get it if it was clever and skillfully enough written.

By the way, I MUCH prefer Hardcore Dharma over Pragmatic Dharma. Pragmatic Dharma sounds too bourgeois, too middle of the roady vanilla, too "I-drempt-of-becoming-a-rockstar-but-got-a-job-at-the-local-bank-instead," too obviously a PR-y and/or marketing ploy-y attempt to not alienate or scare away ANYONE, too "Yes, we admit it, when we were young we subscribed to the whole hardcore thing a little -- ahh, youth -- but now we are mature adults with stock portfolios, 401Ks, lots of polo shirts, and we vote Republican EVERY TIME, and we are now all about what is pragmatic, don't cha know." I could never in 10,000 years get excited about hangin' out with anyone who named themselves or thought that their movement name should include the word "pragmatic." Too rational and not enough viscera, too much head not enough heart. When did the cool kids get kicked out and the white cracker eatin', "wait!, let's not get carried away, now," boring poindexters take over?

Pragmatic Dharma is more John Stewart Mill and Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarianism and Hardcore Dharma's is more Byron and Blake's Romanticism.

Hardcore FOREVER, baby!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/22/12 11:23 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Alan Smithee:
Andrew Ken:
Having a funny cover is a great idea, I guess the hard part would be finding the balance between too subtle/ironic and too over the top. Like, the Jane Rainbow cover before, most people wouldn't get the joke (in the sense that they would mistake it for exactly THAT type of book). IMHO the humour would have to be broad enough to not be confined to just being a snipe at the "mushroom culture" of the current tiny slice of history (and why always be reminded of it, every time we pick up the book?), so instead I think stuff like the "crackling intensity of a ninja" quote is a better idea.

I guess what I'm getting at is, this type of humour is great and all, but I wonder if it can be understood by people outside our community. So like, at the time when we all first got to know about MTCB, the fact that it was serious about itself (and had a "serious" cover) helped us take the whole thing seriously, enlightenment and practice, right? It all came together in a unified sort of way.

So I worry that the 2nd book might actually have the effect of repelling those lost seekers who aren't familiar enough with the subtle ironic humour or the "mushroom culture". So it wouldn't bring in the type of people who really need it.

Unless of course the 2nd book is mainly designed for people who have already read the first?


Definitely keep the subtitle!


FWIW, I strongly prefer the 3rd cover of those you posted, but none of them come close to the original MCTB cover


We live in the age of The Onion. People would get it if it was clever and skillfully enough written.

By the way, I MUCH prefer Hardcore Dharma over Pragmatic Dharma. Pragmatic Dharma sounds too bourgeois, too middle of the roady vanilla, too "I-drempt-of-becoming-a-rockstar-but-got-a-job-at-the-local-bank-instead," too obviously a PR-y and/or marketing ploy-y attempt to not alienate or scare away ANYONE, too "Yes, we admit it, when we were young we subscribed to the whole hardcore thing a little -- ahh, youth -- but now we are mature adults with stock portfolios, 401Ks, lots of polo shirts, and we vote Republican EVERY TIME, and we are now all about what is pragmatic, don't cha know." I could never in 10,000 years get excited about hangin' out with anyone who named themselves or thought that their movement name should include the word "pragmatic." Too rational and not enough viscera, too much head not enough heart. When did the cool kids get kicked out and the white cracker eatin', "wait!, let's not get carried away, now," boring poindexters take over?

Pragmatic Dharma is more John Stewart Mill and Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarianism and Hardcore Dharma's is more Byron and Blake's Romanticism.

Hardcore FOREVER, baby!


Tell us how you really feel.

(righteous rant!)

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/22/12 11:38 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Just in case anyone's confused, I am not Jane Rainbow. emoticon

[Actually, I go by Laurel. No idea why I felt moved to use the full name here.]

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/24/12 11:17 AM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
I swear at one place here in the UK the teacher would likely faint at the temerity of even suggesting stream entry as a serious goal! emoticon


Go on. Tell me what that "one place" is called - I have a few suspicions!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/24/12 11:22 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
somehow the idea of having a really funny one just tickles me.


I did want to do one that looks like a VCR manual from 1993, one that looked like the instructions for building an AirFix Buddha, and another that looks like a ...For Dummies book.

Andy W:
I did want to do one that looks like a VCR manual from 1993

Yes! that's an awesome idea!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/24/12 5:41 PM as a reply to Andrew K.
Like this?


Because I apparently have nothing better to do on Christmas Eve...


Heh, heh, much better than mine. You've really put a lot of thought into it! Merry Christmas, Andy!

Andy W:
Because I apparently have nothing better to do on Christmas Eve...



NICE

How to get your consciousness to stop blinking midnight.

Andy W:
Because I apparently have nothing better to do on Christmas Eve...



That's a good one!

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
12/26/12 4:14 PM as a reply to Ona Kiser.
Wow!

You all are seriously talented.

What if there were a few different covers available? That would be funny... A Jane Rainbow stacked-stones version, a seriously edgy version, a very conventional serious version, a graffiti/lowbrow street-art version (think Juxtapoz), etc.

I always wanted to print one hand-leather-bound in dark brown and done in sepia calligraphy on cotton vellum...

I agree, Hardcore is a lot more fun, and also more what it is actually like, than Pragmatic, as it is hard, it does take serious dedication, serious skill, and often a lot of attitude just to get through it.

Daniel

Andy, Derek, those are both great! I'd love to see either one on a cover. I like the idea to put the contents on the cover.
You got my mind going and inspired me to give it a shot
My cover probably takes itself too seriously though

I don't have the source for the photo of the monk unfortunately, I don't know who took it.

da-yum

Again, Wow! That's really nice. I like the technical, integrated, scientific vibe of it.

D

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/3/13 11:18 AM as a reply to Fitter Stoke.
Fitter Stoke:
[...] you absolutely have to do the meditation CD with pan pipes (and babbling brook and maybe crackling fire) in the background - and call it "Peaceful Perspective" or "Seeds of Change, with Daniel Ingram" - but talk the way you normally do.

Hah! I just remembered this and I have to +1 (or +5) it. It would be hilarious.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/3/13 1:56 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Perhaps someone could take one of Dan's currently available talks and set it to some appropriate sounds/music. It would be really funny.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/3/13 4:06 PM as a reply to MuMuWu MuMuMuMu.
When reading the "Peaceful Perspectives" and "Seeds of Change" audio recording ideas... for some reason I'm totally thinking about Dan doing an interview session all character comedy style like Zach Galifianakis' "Between Two Ferns" when he did it as his twin brother character Seth... LOL.

Seth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6KYKKvs9C0

Zach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vgpWyAcqO4

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/7/13 1:52 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
I am 51 years old and a DhO newbie brought in by the Jeff Warren article. I have been peripherally interested in Buddhism for about 30 years. I occasionally bought a book on Buddhism out of curiousity but never attempted a meditation practice. I self identified as atheist with the caveat, "If I had to be forced into a religion it would be Buddhism, but that's not even a religion."

So I read the article and read MCTB and now I'm off and running with meditation. Why? I never imagined that enlightenment was actually attainable. I thought you had to cross your legs which is completely impossible for me. To actually have a map, can't tell you how encouraging that is.

Thank you, thank you thank you.

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/7/13 8:54 PM as a reply to Curt Welling.
Yay!--Welcome on board! It is possible. Just follow the instructions, post about your practice, and see where it takes you. Best, Laurel

RE: New York Times article about Daniel Ingram, Stream Entry, and the Path
Answer
1/7/13 11:19 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
.......A great book for the coffee table to offer hours of entertainment when friends come round....! emoticon

Just kidding, no disrespect intended. Actually, this book opened my eyes to the fact that it can be done in this life - so my thanks to you too Daniel and all those around you who supported you doing it.