Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Daniel Andersen Thorson, modified 14 Years ago at 4/22/10 3:27 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 6:27 PM

Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Posts: 7 Join Date: 4/11/10 Recent Posts
I'll be going on a sit/serve retreat at the Massachusetts Goenka Dharmma Center starting mid May staying until late August. I'll be alternating periods of service with periods of sitting. During the service periods there will be at least three hours daily of meditation, and more as time permits. My time should allow for three ten day sessions and the rest will be service. I have a number of questions, and any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.

1) After reading (and reading, and re-reading) Daniel's book as well as many other sources I believe that during my last ten day retreat I passed into equanimity territory. I reached this stage on day 9 of the retreat and just sort of clung there for the final day and a half as it was so relieving after the pain and suffering of dark night. Meditation, for however long I do it, is generally pleasant--if not uneventful. From what I've read this seems consistent with the stage of Equanimity.

My first question is this: given where I've been how should I best practice to attain stream entry? Assuming I am correct in my diagnosis is it feasible to start ramping up my practice in the week or two leading up to retreat (say three plus hours a day) and achieve stream entry in the initial ten day retreat? If I fail, how should I best keep whatever progress I've made alive and sustained during the service period so I can get the most out of the next ten day retreat period?

2) I am worried that I might have just passed into A&P and not actually made it to Equanimity. What is the best way to differentiate between the two?

3) This is a Goenka retreat. As has been mentioned before on these forums the tradition tends towards dogmatism regarding technique and 'allowed dharma'. In this I am conflicted. I have been constructing a database of good advice from various sources (primarily MCTB, Dharmaoverground, Kenneth Folk, Shinzen Young etc) and assume it would be useful to have with me on retreat. This is expressly forbidden in the 'Rulebook for Servers'. Should I sneak in 'illegal dharma' to consume during the serving periods?

4) Again, this is a Goenka retreat. Should I continue to body-scan (the given technique) or should I start Mahashi style noting? Many members here have remarked that body-scanning is an excellent way to adhieve A&P but may not be as effective at achieving stream entry. Any thoughts on this?

5) Lastly does anyone have any general advice for what I'm trying to do, perhaps particularly geared towards a Goenka retreat? I see a lot of advice on ten day retreats but not much for longer-term stays at a Goenka center. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks so much for any and all advice,
Daniel
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Nikolai , modified 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 7:43 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 7:43 PM

RE: Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
You said: Should I sneak in 'illegal dharma' to consume during the serving periods?

I was in the same boat. I just decided to do what i had to do to get stream entry. I would punish myself later for breaking the "sila' rules of the centre by having a fruition whenever I felt guilty...which was never really...but that doesnt stop me calling up a fruition to give me a mental boost now and then hehe!

My account of my last Goenka retreat where i got 1st path:

http://bit.ly/aWmoSd


If you can handle keeping your goals and what you will practice to "get it done" to yourself, just do what you have to do and worry about regret and "feeling bad" for lying on your application form for later while you are dwelling in jhanic bliss! The centres are there to progress on the path and attain nibbana. Just do what you have to do! I did and it worked for me.

Just get it done!!!!!
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Nikolai , modified 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 9:01 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 8:25 PM

RE: Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
1) My first question is this: given where I've been how should I best practice to attain stream entry? Assuming I am correct in my diagnosis is it feasible to start ramping up my practice in the week or two leading up to retreat (say three plus hours a day) and achieve stream entry in the initial ten day retreat? If I fail, how should I best keep whatever progress I've made alive and sustained during the service period so I can get the most out of the next ten day retreat period?

Just continued practice at all times. Don't let the craving for stream entry over power you. Note it and move on. Have your resolution there but also balance it wth wisdom. Be aware of everything that is experienced including the sensations of "I". Momentum is the key. Sayagi U Ba Khin had a quote, he said getting up to equanimity of formations, falling back down, cycling back up, falling back down...was all like swinging on a rope to get across a river. You have to keep swinging back and forth, each time gaining some more height until you have enough to let go and reach the other side. That is what you are doing. Just swinging back and forth. Let the process get you there. Dont crave it! Note the craving and keep swinging, noting either with bare attention of sensations and other phenomena or noting them mentally mahasi style. I found noting them mahasi style objectifies them much easier and progress was faster for myself. But if you have a problem with that, just make sure you are aware of EVERYTHING that makes up the experience of "I"...I mean everything, even the subtlest and hard to spot states of mind, like anticipation, boredom, space, confusion etc Note them all. Objectify them all with awareness of the three characteristics.

2) I am worried that I might have just passed into A&P and not actually made it to Equanimity. What is the best way to differentiate between the two?


Read the chapter on A/P over and over in Daniel's book and keep meditating. If it was the A/P stage, dukkha nanas are on its heels so no mistaking where you were. If it was equanimity, just keep meditating making sure everything that is experienced is seen with equanimity and objectified, whether you do it via the goenka method or mahasi's noting. The advice for both stages is KEEP PRACTICING. You will eventually get a feel for both stages.

3) This is expressly forbidden in the 'Rulebook for Servers'. Should I sneak in 'illegal dharma' to consume during the serving periods?

You can either be truthful about what you do and probably get asked to leave or keep it to yourself and just do what you need to do. It's your moral dilemma to solve. I didnt let it bother me and I still got across the line.

4) Again, this is a Goenka retreat. Should I continue to body-scan (the given technique) or should I start Mahashi style noting? Many members here have remarked that body-scanning is an excellent way to adhieve A&P but may not be as effective at achieving stream entry. Any thoughts on this?

I found a combination of both was extremely powerful. The sweeping method got me to at least mid equanimity but I never knew what to do in it and got bored and fell back down in reobservation. Once I got to equanimity of formations I was noting every phenomena experienced, mental and physical as fast as I could including the mental images and sensations that made up the "I".

5) Lastly does anyone have any general advice for what I'm trying to do, perhaps particularly geared towards a Goenka retreat? I see a lot of advice on ten day retreats but not much for longer-term stays at a Goenka center. Does anyone have experience with this?

Keep practicing as much as you can to keep the momentum going. Noting can be taken anywhere. Sweeping the body is difficult when doing other things. Get your concentration skills up. They seemed to be key in getting stream entry quickly. I started using kasinas a year before the course. But seeing as you are going to be living there, use the anapana method to get you into jhana territory if possible or just to strengthen it as much as possible. If you dont get jhana, it doesnt really matter, once you get 1st path they can become extremely easy to access. Note everything when sitting. I mean even the sensations and mental images that make up the "I". Become aware that the sum of these sensations and images blip in and out of any bare sensate experience creating the illusion of "I". When you can see this, you are then able to objectify the "I" and see it for what it really is, an impermanent flow of sensations and mental images. You can't get rid of those sensations that make up the "I", they will arise regardless. The goal is to see them for what they really are...just sensations. Objectify the "I"!!!

Hope this helps.

Nick
Daniel Andersen Thorson, modified 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 9:12 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/11/10 9:12 PM

RE: Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Posts: 7 Join Date: 4/11/10 Recent Posts
Extraordinarily helpful. Still processing your answers but just wanted to express my gratitude. You both confirmed the better part of my thinking while expanding and redirecting the nebulous aspects.

It makes me wonder how people operate without access to information sources like this.
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Nikolai , modified 14 Years ago at 4/12/10 7:53 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 4/12/10 7:26 AM

RE: Long-term Goenka Center Questions

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Also read and re-read this little gem from Tarin, aka PrisonerGreco


The Reformed Slacker's Guide to Stream Entry

http://bit.ly/9dahpd


And this thread from Kenneth's site where I have a discussion with a dhamma buddy.
http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/3685004/yadid's+practice+journal

Hope this helps!

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