dharma names, self ordination, etc.

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Daniel J Scharpenburg, modified 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 12:10 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 12:10 PM

dharma names, self ordination, etc.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 7/30/13 Recent Posts
I'm curious.

what do you think of the idea of 'self-ordination', declaring oneself a monk and choosing a dharma name?

do you think that's helpful in any way?
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 12:19 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 12:19 PM

RE: dharma names, self ordination, etc.

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
If your goal is Enlightenment, then...

To the extent that you have an ego-identity until you don't, an ego-identity aimed at Enlightenment is more conducive to Enlightenment than an ego-identity not. So...

To the extent that a dharma group you join is authentic and does indeed lead to Enlightenment: ordaining in that dharma group, choosing a name, shedding one ego-identity for another, would be conducive to Enlightenment.

To the extent that a dharma group you join is not authentic and doesn't lead to Enlightenment but is false dharma: ordaining in that false dharma group, choosing a name, shedding one ego-identity for another, would not be guaranteed to be conducive to Enlightenment and might even lead you further away.

If you self-ordain, then...

To the extent that you understand the dharma and understand how to identify when you don't understand the dharma and how to then correct yourself, choosing a name to strengthen your own authority, shedding one ego-identity for another, would be conducive to Enlightenment.

To the extent that you don't understand the dharma or don't understand how to identify when you don't understand the dharma or don't understand how to correct yourself if you've identified that you don't understand the dharma, choosing a name to strengthen your own authority, shedding one ego-identity for another, would not be guaranteed to be conducive to Enlightenment and might even lead you further away.
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Bruno Loff, modified 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 1:35 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/10/13 1:27 PM

RE: dharma names, self ordination, etc.

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Ditto.

Although I don't think that changing your name in itself is one of those aspects of self-identification which lead to awakening.

If you are interested in which views to identify with / which belief system to adopt, in order to bring about awakening, I think that the following three points are the most fundamental.
  • Conviction in the principle of kamma.
  • Conviction that awakening is a skill.
  • The desire to see phenomena in and of themselves.


(1) The principle of kamma, states, to be brief, that future results depend both of past and and present actions. That means that I can influence the future by acting in the present, that I am not deterministically fated to fail (or to succeed, for that matter). This means that I can and should do things to bring about desirable outcomes; that I should be proactive.

(2) I believe that awakening happens through the act of developing a skill: the skill of bringing about true, lasting, reliable happiness. As a result of this, I see that actions can be categorized in terms of how effective they are at bringing said happiness, and hence I see my practice very simply as: learning how to identify which actions are skillful and which actions are unskillful, and how to do the former and not the latter. It is an act of discernment and persistence.

(3) I realize that, in order to discern which actions are skillful and unskillful, phenomena must be seen as they happen, in their own terms. This way of seeing is denoted by any of the following expressions (in case you already know what I mean by one of them):
  • Seeing the events of my experience as they happen, in their own terms.
  • Seeing the events of my experience directly as they are made conscious.
  • ... in and of themselves.
  • ... phenomenologically.

For instance, if I am thinking that my father is tall then I should be aware that I am thinking that my father is tall, rather than mistakenly believing that I am aware that my father is tall; i.e., I don't confuse the content of my thoughts and mental impressions with what is actually happening. However, of course, if I am not thinking that my father is tall, but instead I am looking at my father whilst aware of his tallness, then I am aware that he is tall. It is at this level that I can see for myself what is skillful and what is not.


As far as I was able to discern, in those people whose view is in alignment with these 3 points, myself included, there tends to be a motivation for practice, and said practice bears fruit. Though I don't know first hand if it leads to awakening, for I have not experienced it myself.

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