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question about a conclusion
enlightenment
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11/14/13 7:24 AM
Hello all, I am, ha ha how to put it? The one called Stephanie. emoticon Really Just Steph is cool emoticon

Samsara is an ouroboros. The serpent that eats itself. I'm sorry this is so long, I am drowning in a sea of self doubt. Thank you for offerring help

Thank you for taking the time to read over/ address my concerns. I was a pretty devout atheist my whole life. This realization of multi dimensional beings threw me for quite a loop, and the fact that we are noting but enegry trans to flesh, there is an afterlife, and i put myself here...for something. WOW. I wont go into detail about how I came to this conclusion here, but of course it has come from intensive study and meditation. I attend Tara Puga weekly, but have no personal guru.

Everything is based in superstition, collective belief, and inference.


Ive come to, I hope an accurate understanding of what is taught, but Im still afflicted with doubt. Samsara is here and will continue to be because of collective projection, meaning if even one person, or being believes it, Samsara will exist. When things are not paid any awareness, by anyone they no longer exist, That we are really a dream" of sorts, reality being a collective belief in its existence, perpetuated by further by further belief. When we meditate and notice our feelings, and deduce them with dependant origination, we find that they are not even ours, but habits from the belief that it exists in others,and from reincarnation, or string or m theory if you want to go that deep, or the bodies belief, even if it is the bodies pain, it is not our pain, and after initial reaction to the pain, further delving into it makes it worse, because its an impression rather than fact.The further we delve into the body the more we realize that this body is not us, but controlled by our awareness of it.

I am currently under the impression that samsara is a real mutli dimensional physical Matrix if you would. As we are just spinning energy within spinning atoms, the idea of flesh is illusory as it is based on congregates of energy while also being flesh and blood. We all descend from this, awareness or nirvana and if you want to call it god, we are that already, but confused and ignorant because of being in the land of confusion. That every instance that happens to you can be Dharma, life and its instances are not coincidence.
Since we exist in waves time isn't linear,but almost cylindrical? and the matrix can be manipulated such as the force in star wars.We manifest our destiny by projecting our energy, almost like an drug addict, all humans project their own faults on others and really see them that way! The same way our collective awareness of objects is the continual perception of these objects.
Furthermore the universe and everything in it all around us is this force, the source of awareness. There is no need for a creator god because the cycle is endless and beginning-less. There doesn't have to be a beginning to it, it just is the way of Karma. we really are already Buddhas.

Am i missing something here? I also with this realization, and every time something is awakened if you would, the most amazing feeling of love and harmony in the world, and it lasts until i let a human affect me.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/14/13 8:16 AM as a reply to Stephanie Bryant.
Anybody? lol I'm dying here.Honestly Thank you to anyone who does. I'm afraid.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/14/13 10:58 AM as a reply to Stephanie Bryant.
Stephanie l Bryant:

Ive come to, I hope an accurate understanding of what is taught, but Im still afflicted with doubt.

Samsara is here and will continue to be because of collective projection, meaning if even one person, or being believes it, Samsara will exist.

Having an intellectual apprehension of the concepts is one thing. Anyone can accomplish that with a bit of work and diligence of study. But knowing that they are true is quite another thing. It is the knowing that is the catalyst for awakening!

Are you saying that samsara exists? As an actual phenomenological phenomenon? Or that it is a thought formation? Which?

Also, are you saying that you are somehow responsible for someone else's perception of reality in your comment on "collective projection" in terms of the continuation of samsara through individual "belief"? Or are you just trying to communicate a point about why some people remain deluded by what they perceive as "samsara" while others do not.

Stephanie l Bryant:

When things are not paid any awareness, by anyone they no longer exist, ...

Does this mean that when you step on a cactus thorn which then gets implanted in your foot, that when you pay it no awareness, it does not physically exists to cause pain and discomfort? What are you attempting to impart, here? Please be more exacting in your use of the language. Ambiguity has no place here.

Stephanie l Bryant:
That we are really a dream" of sorts, reality being a collective belief in its existence, perpetuated by further by further belief. When we meditate and notice our feelings, and deduce them with dependent origination, we find that they are not even ours, but habits from the belief that it exists in others,and from reincarnation, or string or m theory if you want to go that deep, or the bodies belief, even if it is the bodies pain, it is not our pain, and after initial reaction to the pain, further delving into it makes it worse, because its an impression rather than fact. The further we delve into the body the more we realize that this body is not us, but controlled by our awareness [i.e. perception] of it. ...

Furthermore the universe and everything in it all around us is this force, the source of awareness. There is no need for a creator god because the cycle is endless and beginning-less.

There doesn't have to be a beginning to it, it just is the way of Karma. we really are already Buddhas.

If you are already a Buddha, why are you coming here asking questions? (Oh, I forgot: "Im still afflicted with doubt." Please excuse the question.)

Stephanie l Bryant:

Am i missing something here?

Recognition of the process in real time on a continuing basis while not becoming personally affected by your perception of the delusion of others.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/14/13 5:33 PM as a reply to Stephanie Bryant.
Just meditate emoticon Meditate and then report back from the trenches.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/14/13 5:34 PM as a reply to Ian And.
If you are already a Buddha, why are you coming here asking questions? (Oh, I forgot: "Im still afflicted with doubt." Please excuse the question.)


It comes from the idea that we are already completely embedded (not separate) in reality even before we realize it.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/22/13 5:19 AM as a reply to Bailey ..
Thank you. Best and worthy advice. Too much information too quickly without enough meditation. emoticon

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/22/13 6:04 AM as a reply to Ian And.
Really I was asking if any of what I asked is accurate. I realize at the time that I wrote this I was experiencing a disgusting case of anxiety;
I was not stating anything as fact

Where I got the information about us already being a Buddha was stated by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, actually I'm pretty sure this is a common belief? and not only Mahayana, (please excuse the spelling) that we are all already Buddhas, but are layered in afflictions of aggregates; meaning underneath all of the garbage there is already peace serenity and wisdom, a perfect being. I wasn't aware that was a secular belief? So really this is the wrong place for this post.Any ambiguity was because I'm questioning my understanding, and asking for help;
If we meditate on pain, we can make it bearable, and further make it go away the more we focus right? At least it helped me during Labor, pain didn't go away, but certainly lessened it. This is what I was taught, it may be wrong, but its what I was taught, and [u]for me it works, so my question is, why is this?
If we add quantum physics into the mix, we really do beg the question, are we merely a hologram? A reflection? Is our energy that permeates our being really ageless? Without a self?non-inherent existence I get. Dependent origination i get.Interdependence I get. In my previous post I think I had union with Brahma confused with Nirvana. Nirvana as explained by Buddha, as far as I can tell is already here. "There is no attainment or no non attainment"?
Equally in quantum physics, we are taking every and all paths to arrive at one single point right? And there is no such thing as linear time, so instead of Samsara being about up and down, it could be a multitude of dimensions that concurrently exist.


Im not saying Samsara exists or doesnt exist,at this point i have no idea. I grew up with no religion, and am pretty new to Buddhism, so this is all a question, so I am confused by this comment
"if you are already a Buddha, why are you coming here asking questions? (Oh, I forgot: "Im still afflicted with doubt." Please excuse the question.)"
Aren't we taught that doubt is a perception, or thought formation that does really not exist in a tangible way? Therefore we can be rid of it? The collective projection is something I read from a priest who studied Jung Tesla and Descartes; I don't know what kind of application that has in Buddhism, but it seemed like it fit to me, so I asked...
I was also taught, and I dont know if this is true, that thought formations are not even our own, but arise due to sense impressions, but not even our own. for people who are of Christ Consciousness as its called, this gets super complicated, and I blame my getting involved with it for the mess in my logic rather than keeping things simple. I also tend to over think, which is a huge challenge.

I am surprised however, at the snarkiness of this response? I am not in anyway claiming anything, so there is no reason to get irritated (and I apologize if I am taking you wrong),

I am afflicted with doubt due to lack of understanding, and having no one around to communicate about it. Thankfully Ive found a Chenrezig Center for study run by a very nice Rinpoche. All of the people there are wonderful, and will gladly and respectfully address any misunderstanding with a correct understanding.

Thank you for addressing the question. At the point after this I was so confused I began to cry, so I just let go of trying to control it. Have a good day. And please if you have any insights regarding any of my ignorance about these subjects please share.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/22/13 7:12 AM as a reply to Stephanie Bryant.
Stephanie Bryant:
"if you are already a Buddha, why are you coming here asking questions? (Oh, I forgot: "Im still afflicted with doubt." Please excuse the question.)"
Aren't we taught that doubt is a perception, or thought formation that does really not exist in a tangible way? Therefore we can be rid of it?


Sounds like you are in an uncomfortable place. You mention how you tend to over-think. Apart from formal meditation (which was recommended to you), have you tried any of the following:

  • keeping a word or phrase in mind for as much of the time as possible
  • tackling a nonsensical brain-teaser, or a koan
  • writing it all down


All of these can provide some constraints to the discursive mental tape-loops, giving them a bit of room to ramble on, without granting them full control of your experience.

Thank you for addressing the question. At the point after this I was so confused I began to cry, so I just let go of trying to control it. Have a good day. And please if you have any insights regarding any of my ignorance about these subjects please share.


Hey... Do you have a trusted, real flesh-and-blood person to be around? Forum communication can be awfully artificial, and it can't provide any real hugs or napkins or smiles or reassuring noises of understanding and commiseration and encouragement and so on. Take care of yourself.

As to the already-a-buddha thing: yeah, it's true, but not in any sense anyone likes to hear, so it's a bit useless.

It's more useful to assume you aren't and to keep going until you are, because doing that will clarify the issue (though it won't make you a buddha, since you already are...).

In other words, it's the clarity regarding this issue/question which actually can be gained, and which is highly recommended, and which is a very good thing to get. You get it by doing whatever it is that needs to be done, but starting out by meditating regularly is a very good first step. See where it takes you.

If the question makes you angry, use the anger to fuel your practice. There is a lot of energy in anger, and it can be harnessed for something good. "Nobody wants to tell me? Very well, I'm going to get to the bottom of this all by myself! Serves them right for being such reticent snobs!" If that appeals to you, go for it. If it doesn't, leave it alone.

Finally, I can understand how the metaphysical stuff can be a bit much, being atheist myself. Don't worry too much about it, I'd say. Explore your own life, your own experience of this universe, that's more immediate and instructive than only exploring old doctrines and accounts of other people exploring their lives and experience of the universe. If the gods and angels and demons do make an appearance, well, everybody likes a polite greeting and a heartfelt wish for well-being, whether they are "real" or not. Like Daniel wrote in MCTB (in the chapter on the powers): what is "real" is less interesting than what is causal, i.e. what leads to what.

Cheers,
Florian

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/22/13 7:11 AM as a reply to Florian.
Thanks Florian, its hard for me to tell over a computer what posters are trying to infer, because I get alot of converstaion signals through peoples inflections and body language (as most everyone I guess) but thank you truly for your compassionate response. I should definitely be meditating more and will put the recommendations into practice. I do meditate often, everyday, but I tend to get beasily lost in downward spirals. Thank you very much and I hope all is well for you.

RE: question about a conclusion
Answer
11/22/13 7:20 AM as a reply to Stephanie Bryant.
The downward spirals suck. They can be part of what the DhO calls "the Dark Night". Lots of good advice in many posts about that.

Regarding meditation: if you mean "more regularly", then yes. If you mean "more lengthy", maybe going for the regularity first is the better strategy. Ten minutes every day is better than two hours on Sunday.

Cheers,
Florian