Message Boards Message Boards

Toggle
2 minds experience
Answer
11/15/13 3:34 PM
Hi, I am new here. I had a couple of back to back experiences earlier this year that have set me off searching for something. I found MCTB and am reading it for the second time. I would be grateful for help diagnosing the following experiences:

I stopped drinking alcohol earlier this year, breaking a long term dependency. I felt great until a vacation a month later, when I became stressed then rapidly depressed and paranoid, to an extent that I had not experienced since my late teenage years. The depression intensified over a few days until it became almost unbearable.
Then suddenly, it seemed that my mind or consciousness split in two. My original mind shrank into a small ball and I saw it for what it was, a bundle of fears and delusions thrashing about with no maturity, like a child. The new mind that had appeared was detached and wise. Although detached, it was also engaged and it seemed to sooth the child mind and put it to sleep. The new mind was both me and more than me at the same time. I felt suddenly calm and was filled with a tremendous confidence, as if with this new mind I could achieve anything, that I need not worry about anything in the future because with it I could manage any situation with ease.

This situation persisted for a few days, and was so real that I believed things would stay this way forever.

On the way to the airport on my return home I was travelling calmly in a bus at sunrise. I vaguely remember deciding to meditate, although I had not meditated for years.
At some point in the journey I was gazing out of the window at a fairly ordinary coastal scene bathed in the golden dawn sun when I experienced a vastly altered state for a short time, seconds at most. For this short time everything in my experience was perfect and connected. There was an incredible sense of peace and that everything was in its rightful place and events were unfolding exactly as they should. Words cannot describe the sense of perfection and peace in this experience.

Since this point I have been driven to discover and have been meditating and reading as much as I can. Since reading MCTB I have been wondering if my experience was an A&P event.

Feedback greatly appreciated.

RE: 2 minds experience
Answer
11/15/13 4:16 PM as a reply to Andrew Todd.
Andrew Todd:
Hi, I am new here. I had a couple of back to back experiences earlier this year that have set me off searching for something. I found MCTB and am reading it for the second time. I would be grateful for help diagnosing the following experiences:

I stopped drinking alcohol earlier this year, breaking a long term dependency. I felt great until a vacation a month later, when I became stressed then rapidly depressed and paranoid, to an extent that I had not experienced since my late teenage years. The depression intensified over a few days until it became almost unbearable.
Then suddenly, it seemed that my mind or consciousness split in two. My original mind shrank into a small ball and I saw it for what it was, a bundle of fears and delusions thrashing about with no maturity, like a child. The new mind that had appeared was detached and wise. Although detached, it was also engaged and it seemed to sooth the child mind and put it to sleep. The new mind was both me and more than me at the same time. I felt suddenly calm and was filled with a tremendous confidence, as if with this new mind I could achieve anything, that I need not worry about anything in the future because with it I could manage any situation with ease.

This situation persisted for a few days, and was so real that I believed things would stay this way forever.

On the way to the airport on my return home I was travelling calmly in a bus at sunrise. I vaguely remember deciding to meditate, although I had not meditated for years.
At some point in the journey I was gazing out of the window at a fairly ordinary coastal scene bathed in the golden dawn sun when I experienced a vastly altered state for a short time, seconds at most. For this short time everything in my experience was perfect and connected. There was an incredible sense of peace and that everything was in its rightful place and events were unfolding exactly as they should. Words cannot describe the sense of perfection and peace in this experience.

Since this point I have been driven to discover and have been meditating and reading as much as I can. Since reading MCTB I have been wondering if my experience was an A&P event.

Feedback greatly appreciated.


Hi Welcome, Andrew.

How does your current mediation look like? How does a prolonged period of meditation play out for you phenomenologically? What type of sensations, thought loops, pleasant, unpleasant, neutral phenomena of mind and body, focus, attention etc?

Nick

RE: 2 minds experience
Answer
11/15/13 11:42 PM as a reply to Andrew Todd.
Yes, welcome Andrew.
Andrew Todd:
Hi, I am new here. I had a couple of back to back experiences earlier this year that have set me off searching for something. I found MCTB and am reading it for the second time. I would be grateful for help diagnosing the following experiences:

I stopped drinking alcohol earlier this year, breaking a long term dependency. I felt great until a vacation a month later, when I became stressed then rapidly depressed and paranoid, to an extent that I had not experienced since my late teenage years. The depression intensified over a few days until it became almost unbearable.

Then suddenly, it seemed that my mind or consciousness split in two. My original mind shrank into a small ball and I saw it for what it was, a bundle of fears and delusions thrashing about with no maturity, like a child.

The new mind that had appeared was detached and wise. Although detached, it was also engaged and it seemed to sooth the child mind and put it to sleep. The new mind was both me and more than me at the same time. I felt suddenly calm and was filled with a tremendous confidence, as if with this new mind I could achieve anything, that I need not worry about anything in the future because with it I could manage any situation with ease.

This situation persisted for a few days, and was so real that I believed things would stay this way forever.

On the way to the airport on my return home I was traveling calmly in a bus at sunrise. I vaguely remember deciding to meditate, although I had not meditated for years.

At some point in the journey I was gazing out of the window at a fairly ordinary coastal scene bathed in the golden dawn sun when I experienced a vastly altered state for a short time, seconds at most. For this short time everything in my experience was perfect and connected. There was an incredible sense of peace and that everything was in its rightful place and events were unfolding exactly as they should. Words cannot describe the sense of perfection and peace in this experience.

Do you see any connection between these two experiences?

Feedback is one thing; but figuring things out for yourself is more compelling and a thousand times more satisfactory (if you know what I mean; because it is your story and your reality that you are looking at and analyzing; in other words, it has significance!).

What do you think the significance is of these two experiences? Brief though they may have been.

Let me give an example. Do you think your subconscious might have been playing games with you, showing you what might be if you put your mind to it?

Andrew Todd:

Since this point I have been driven to discover and have been meditating and reading as much as I can. Since reading MCTB I have been wondering if my experience was an A&P event.

If you're looking for a label to put to your experiences, obviously, from your description, there was an arising and a passing away. What is more important is: What did you learn from the experiences? Did it create any aspiration within you to be able to achieve such a stable view and outlook? (In other words, did it provide you with an idea of how things might be if you were willing to put the work into it?)

If so, you've come to the right place (the Buddhadhamma) to begin studying and learning how to achieve that state on a continuing basis.

RE: 2 minds experience
Answer
11/16/13 2:41 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Thanks for your response Nikolai. I'm a little unsure how to answer. It seems best to briefly outline what has happened since the experiences I described.

I began meditating on the breath. After some time I began to enter states I now believe to be jhanas. I had some blissful and delicious experiences meditating in this way, and more euphoric experiences when I started formless meditation a la Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. I experienced some interesting realisations and visions during meditation.

After discovering MCTB I experimented with vipassana and seemed to make quick progress. On the third attempt I reached a state when my whole body seemed to vibrate like an electric toothbrush, but this was never repeated. Subsequently, I experienced a moment during vipassana meditation during which a visualisation of 2 selves appeared with some exchange or feed from one to the other. It was momentary and immediately after it I felt a quick and strong release, as if some catharsis had occurred. Very shortly after this I went through period where everything seemed wrong, at work and home, I felt like many aspects of my ordinary life were falling apart. I wondered if this was dissolution as many aspects of the dark night described in MCTB were present. In particular, there was a strong sensual languor to the whole experience, and I found it very difficult to meditate. Vipassana was especially difficult.
I am glad that I had read MCTB, because otherwise this period was such that I might have done something stupid.

After a couple of weeks, this period ended and a sense of calm replaced it.

I am beginning to find it easier to meditate again. I can now reach some jhana states again, but not as cleanly or easily. Vipassana is becoming easier again, but my mind is not so clear, it feels duller. Thought loops are more prevalent and lengthy. There is not as much light or visual phenomena as before. I do find fewer bodily distractions though, and am able to sit for longer without agitation. There is one new phenomenon, which is a sense of travelling or floating or being carried forward, and as this progresses I sense more and stronger vibrations in the body.

RE: 2 minds experience
Answer
11/16/13 2:50 AM as a reply to Ian And.
Thanks Ian.

I'm convinced the 2 experiences are related because of the timing. Other that they were quite different and I don't know how to connect them. Both seemed to be a glimpse of something much greater than I had imagined but possible, yes. An explanation involving the subconscious did occur to me especially in respect of the 2 minds experience, but 'higher consciousness' is a better fit for the quality of the experiences overall.

The experience created in me a strong faith in some kind of awakening. To the extent that my life has changed. I have begun a journey, maybe a spiritual journey. I think about this stuff all the time now.