Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise - Discussion
Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise
Arianne A G, modified 10 Years ago at 9/5/14 1:16 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/5/14 12:42 AM
Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise
Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/4/14 Recent Posts
Hello, everyone,
I'm a newcomer to both this forum and meditation. Today I had a weird experience that I would like to get "diagnosed."
Background: a few weeks ago I started breathing meditation under the intention of improving my concentration. I've been doing this for about 20-60 minutes a day. Sometimes I sit in a chair, other times I slowly pace. I'm surprised by how much I'm getting out of it --- I've really been noticing the fine motions of my muscle contractions involved in my breaths and have been generally been more aware of my body sensations. It feels like everytime I breathe slowly during meditation I'm somehow pushing some energy throughout my body.
Yesterday, I had an urge to finally just suck it up and sit down semi-crossed legged (my flexibility is horrible and I generally hate sitting on the floor). I sometimes have to switch my legs around but I'm surprised by how much discomfort I'm able to endure if I just focus on my breathing. I've also been starting to concentrate on the element water, which I have an affinity for. I enjoy this new technique even if it's more difficult.
This afternoon, I continued the semi-crossed leg breathing/water meditation. I had one round that lasted like an hour, intersperced with a bit of pacing, and it went quite well. Then I tried again an hour or so later. Perhaps about 50 minutes into my session, I starting feeling what certainly felt like third eye movements --- just a pulsating around my forehead like I've never felt before. I also felt what felt like some sort of chakric activity in the middle of my chest and a feeling of joy and goodwill for all sentient beings. I'd stop feeling the forehead vibrations when I open my eyes and the feeling returned when I closed them. Eventually the vibrations went away and I just felt, well, good. The discomfort in my legs, that otherwise would have been close to unbearable, went away. I was very excited because it was my first dramatic breakthrough and I suspected that I might have reached the 1st jhana. This lasted for about a minute or so. I then got up and felt great happiness for another half hour or so.
After that half hour, in the evening, some unexpected weirdness arose. The "good" feeling gave way to a certain sort of dissatisfaction. I became conscious that part of me, some aspect of my body, was in emotional pain/turmoil. Like I could sense a part of me that was experiencing anger and frustration. I wasn't THAT bothered by it because I somehow felt removed from it, but I nonetheless missed the rapturous joy I felt earlier. Eventually I started becoming increasingly affected by this emotional pain and went back to meditating (the same semi-crossed position). I kept saying to myself "I'm tired of suffering" and kept perservering, in spite of the leg pain from the sitting pose. I did this for about a half an hour and the pain eventually gave way to tranquility, but it was nothing like the rapture I felt in the session earlier in the afternoon. I feel like the lesson I learned was "pain has to be confronted instead of evaded."
I really don't know what happend. I thought it was 1st jhana but I never heard of 1st jhana being followed by some sort of mini dark night. If anyone could give feedback, that would be grately appreciated. Thank you!
EDIT: I just read http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5563483 and that experience sounds quite similar to mine! Perhaps I have entered the dark night/equanimity, all very rapidly?
I'm a newcomer to both this forum and meditation. Today I had a weird experience that I would like to get "diagnosed."
Background: a few weeks ago I started breathing meditation under the intention of improving my concentration. I've been doing this for about 20-60 minutes a day. Sometimes I sit in a chair, other times I slowly pace. I'm surprised by how much I'm getting out of it --- I've really been noticing the fine motions of my muscle contractions involved in my breaths and have been generally been more aware of my body sensations. It feels like everytime I breathe slowly during meditation I'm somehow pushing some energy throughout my body.
Yesterday, I had an urge to finally just suck it up and sit down semi-crossed legged (my flexibility is horrible and I generally hate sitting on the floor). I sometimes have to switch my legs around but I'm surprised by how much discomfort I'm able to endure if I just focus on my breathing. I've also been starting to concentrate on the element water, which I have an affinity for. I enjoy this new technique even if it's more difficult.
This afternoon, I continued the semi-crossed leg breathing/water meditation. I had one round that lasted like an hour, intersperced with a bit of pacing, and it went quite well. Then I tried again an hour or so later. Perhaps about 50 minutes into my session, I starting feeling what certainly felt like third eye movements --- just a pulsating around my forehead like I've never felt before. I also felt what felt like some sort of chakric activity in the middle of my chest and a feeling of joy and goodwill for all sentient beings. I'd stop feeling the forehead vibrations when I open my eyes and the feeling returned when I closed them. Eventually the vibrations went away and I just felt, well, good. The discomfort in my legs, that otherwise would have been close to unbearable, went away. I was very excited because it was my first dramatic breakthrough and I suspected that I might have reached the 1st jhana. This lasted for about a minute or so. I then got up and felt great happiness for another half hour or so.
After that half hour, in the evening, some unexpected weirdness arose. The "good" feeling gave way to a certain sort of dissatisfaction. I became conscious that part of me, some aspect of my body, was in emotional pain/turmoil. Like I could sense a part of me that was experiencing anger and frustration. I wasn't THAT bothered by it because I somehow felt removed from it, but I nonetheless missed the rapturous joy I felt earlier. Eventually I started becoming increasingly affected by this emotional pain and went back to meditating (the same semi-crossed position). I kept saying to myself "I'm tired of suffering" and kept perservering, in spite of the leg pain from the sitting pose. I did this for about a half an hour and the pain eventually gave way to tranquility, but it was nothing like the rapture I felt in the session earlier in the afternoon. I feel like the lesson I learned was "pain has to be confronted instead of evaded."
I really don't know what happend. I thought it was 1st jhana but I never heard of 1st jhana being followed by some sort of mini dark night. If anyone could give feedback, that would be grately appreciated. Thank you!
EDIT: I just read http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5563483 and that experience sounds quite similar to mine! Perhaps I have entered the dark night/equanimity, all very rapidly?
Pjotr Hill, modified 10 Years ago at 9/5/14 1:32 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/5/14 1:32 AM
RE: Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise (Answer)
Posts: 28 Join Date: 7/7/14 Recent Posts
Great that you started practicing, and good that you are seeing positive results in such a short time!
My advice would be to just continue practicing, and try to not analyze it to much, try not to make a big deal out of it. I highly recommend reading the first chapters of MCTB.
When I started practicing a couple of years back I had some kundalini like experiences and pressure/pulling between my eyes. All this distracted me from practice, and resulted in intense mood swings for me which lasted for a year... I give this example as a way to show it is easily to get distracted by these "side effects".
Best wishes for your practice!
My advice would be to just continue practicing, and try to not analyze it to much, try not to make a big deal out of it. I highly recommend reading the first chapters of MCTB.
When I started practicing a couple of years back I had some kundalini like experiences and pressure/pulling between my eyes. All this distracted me from practice, and resulted in intense mood swings for me which lasted for a year... I give this example as a way to show it is easily to get distracted by these "side effects".
Best wishes for your practice!
Arianne A G, modified 10 Years ago at 9/6/14 2:21 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/6/14 2:21 PM
RE: Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise
Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/4/14 Recent PostsPjotr Hill:
Great that you started practicing, and good that you are seeing positive results in such a short time!
My advice would be to just continue practicing, and try to not analyze it to much, try not to make a big deal out of it. I highly recommend reading the first chapters of MCTB.
When I started practicing a couple of years back I had some kundalini like experiences and pressure/pulling between my eyes. All this distracted me from practice, and resulted in intense mood swings for me which lasted for a year... I give this example as a way to show it is easily to get distracted by these "side effects".
Best wishes for your practice!
My advice would be to just continue practicing, and try to not analyze it to much, try not to make a big deal out of it. I highly recommend reading the first chapters of MCTB.
When I started practicing a couple of years back I had some kundalini like experiences and pressure/pulling between my eyes. All this distracted me from practice, and resulted in intense mood swings for me which lasted for a year... I give this example as a way to show it is easily to get distracted by these "side effects".
Best wishes for your practice!
Thanks for your feedback! Really, I don't know what to expect at this point --- last night while meditating I felt a weird combination of mild rapture and the dissociated dissatifaction feeling, again. I guess it's probably best to just let my energy system re-organize itself and let the sensations come and go, rather than become attached to any particular state and "force" myself there. Was there something you did in particular after a year that got you out of your mood swings?
Yeah, I'm pleasantly surprised by how quickly I've been making progress. I've spent *a lot* of time reading/ruminating on Buddhism before I formally started my practice, but I don't know to what extent intellectual preparation can make a difference. Reviewing the MCTB literature sounds like a good idea.
Pjotr Hill, modified 10 Years ago at 9/6/14 3:31 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/6/14 3:31 PM
RE: Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise
Posts: 28 Join Date: 7/7/14 Recent Posts
I did mostly concentration and metta practice for half a year. And i often started meditation with feeling contact with the floor, trying to ground.
Last retreat I did Mahasi noting and this seems to help me a lot, as i can label mind states of sadness or euphoria instead of getting carried away by them. And I try not to get attached to pleasant mind states.
I think intellectual preparation can make a real difference, as for me meditation has become much more straightforward now I have a clear idea what to look for (three charasteristics).
Last retreat I did Mahasi noting and this seems to help me a lot, as i can label mind states of sadness or euphoria instead of getting carried away by them. And I try not to get attached to pleasant mind states.
I think intellectual preparation can make a real difference, as for me meditation has become much more straightforward now I have a clear idea what to look for (three charasteristics).
Arianne A G, modified 10 Years ago at 9/13/14 1:24 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/13/14 1:24 PM
RE: Possible 1st jhana followed by malaise
Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/4/14 Recent Posts
Yeah, same, my intention is to practice concentration/metta.
I had more prolonged samadhi experiences in the past few days. Im not sure what jhana (if any) I'm at but I do intend to go deeper.
I had more prolonged samadhi experiences in the past few days. Im not sure what jhana (if any) I'm at but I do intend to go deeper.