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Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself

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Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 10:46 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 11:01 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 11:10 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 11:12 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 11:14 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 11:20 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 11:26 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 11:35 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 11:49 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 11:52 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/12/15 1:18 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Laurel Carrington 4/12/15 1:58 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 3:33 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Laurel Carrington 4/12/15 5:00 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 3:25 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself b man 4/16/15 4:44 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Bill F. 4/12/15 11:20 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/12/15 11:28 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Bill F. 4/12/15 12:05 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself CJMacie 4/14/15 3:19 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Chris Marti 4/14/15 7:21 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Jack Hatfield 4/14/15 11:42 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/14/15 11:50 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/15/15 3:42 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/16/15 7:27 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Daniel M. Ingram 4/16/15 3:24 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Dada Kind 4/16/15 4:30 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/16/15 4:42 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself CJMacie 3/4/17 11:58 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself CJMacie 3/5/17 12:00 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/20/15 1:26 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Daniel M. Ingram 3/5/17 6:29 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah D 3/5/17 10:05 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Change A. 4/18/15 11:36 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself PP 4/19/15 4:09 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself CJMacie 4/19/15 11:42 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself PP 4/20/15 6:39 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Change A. 4/20/15 8:42 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself . Jake . 4/20/15 9:37 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Nikolai . 4/20/15 9:40 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself . Jake . 4/20/15 10:21 AM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 4/20/15 3:44 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Nikolai . 4/20/15 3:59 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Simon Ekstrand 4/20/15 4:09 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself . Jake . 4/20/15 4:28 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Simon Ekstrand 4/20/15 4:34 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Simon Ekstrand 4/20/15 3:47 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Ryan J 4/23/15 3:26 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself b man 3/4/17 11:58 PM
RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself Noah 4/20/15 1:32 AM
In the context of recent discussions and continuous conflicts in the recent past, here are some of my personal thoughts as well as questions I believe we should be asking.  They are in no particular order:

-Change the basic principles and attitudes on the welcome page.  "the spirit of mutual, supportive adventurers", "the collective wisdom of a group of strong practitioners"--- Put these lines first and add to them even more word choice surrounding the theme of harmony/synergy/community/cooperation/positivity, etc.  Perhaps consider splitting of the phrases/lines related to the DHO not being a one guru type sangha and not being a rigid teacher-student type sangha.  These things are about what it is NOT.  We should be stressing, with positivity, what the DHO IS.

-Restructure the discussion categories.  I don't know how easy this would be and have no experience as a programmer.  However, a lot of the discussions going on here should probably be in "the Dharma Battleground".  Perhaps this should be one of the first categories.  Furthermore, the parameters of what a Dharma Battle is should be clearly defined.  When threads are posted in other sections and start to go in this direction, a moderator should move that thread or the arguement part of it to the "Dharma Battleground" section.
          -I think "Practice Logs" should be at the top as well and somehow emphasized in the description of forum categories and emphasized on the welcome page.  Practice Logs are what made KFD so amazing back in the day.  I have been reading thousands of pages of archived Dharmic genius lately.

-Ideally, there would be a way to view what discussion category a given thread is in from the "recent posts" function.  I am guessing that many people, like myself, use this function instead of searching through the discussion board main page.  When people can view what category a thread is in, they can have a better sense of what to expect out of the thread and what kinds of participation might be appropriate.

-Moderators should practice a specific kind of, emotionally intelligent, intellectually honest (sorry KF haters) communication style.  They should never insult, curse out, or argue past a certain point.  When a troll engages in three or four repetitive layers of debate, a moderator should simply step in and politely explain why a thread is being moved, deleted, frozen, etc.  

-Also related to moderation: people's feeling don't matter and shouldn't matter.  What matters is having an organized, disciplined moderation to create the best message board possible.  I am suggesting a pragmatic, meta-moderation.  Meaning, if, in the short term, we violate the first amendment rights of various trolls, who gives a shit?  In the long term, aggressive moderation will make the DHO bloom into a full lotus! :p


RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:01 AM as a reply to Noah.
-How can we de-emphasize the importance of distinguishing between different techniques, different traditions, different canonical sources, etc?

-How can we emphasize that everyone's practice is different and subjective, therefore, debating one another to determine an objective truth or final answer or sense of rightness is pointless?

-How can we emphasize that it is OKAY to agree, it is ENCOURAGED to agree and that we are basically all a team of people trying to 'do the damn thing'?  (Whatever that thing is, our goals all have some basic commonalities, common interests, etc.)

-How can we de-emphasize an importance on word choice?  People here focus on language sooooo much, they nitpick for hours and hours, quoting each other and discussing the meanings of words.  Words will always have different meanings at different times for different people.  One can never have a full sense of certainty about someone else's meaning on an online forum!  Its just impossible.  What matters is moment-by-moment experience, and the way one's current experience has improved from where it was 6 months ago or 6 years ago.  Debating semantics sucks.  Discussing personal experience is awesome.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:10 AM as a reply to Noah.
Seems pretty reasonable. I definitely expect some debate, perfect harmony implies a sort of death of exploration, so considering I have been on the side of restructuring the DhO I myself do not wish for any extremes. I'll have to think myself how to restructure the categories, but more identification of Dharma Battleground type threads could contain the more contentious threads while not banning deep questioning.

So show structure the knowingly heated threads more clearly: enhanced recent discussion is great. My immediate guess is that there wayyyyy too many categories. Browsing should be streamlined, maybe 3 recent discussion categories. Practice discussion, general discussion, and Dharma Combat.

Maybe 1/4 as many categories overall, then like you suggest, with what we know that causes conflict: AF vs This or that, Yana 1 vs Yana 3, 10 fetter vs whatever are in Dharma Combat. Since this is a community, there ought to be a more general discussion place for seemingly random off topic things, like Ethereum, which are actually interesting topics relevant to morality training. General discussion should foster community, and be the soil for ideas on morality training without being stone cold 'This is the morality training category, do X, Y, Z algorithmically" it would humanize the community and probably decrease tension as a consequence.

The constitution on the front page is nice, but maybe it needs to be more rigorous and clear? Obviously it means different things to different people, but it's not 100% arbitrary, it's fairly straighforward.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:12 AM as a reply to Ryan J.
Thanks for the response, Ryan, we should definitely be discussing how to restructure categories.  Somewhere in the middle between the large amount we have now and a very small amount (only 3 or 4) might be the right fit.  Either way, I bet they could all be fit on one page.

I can't help thinking of the Mortal Kombat theme song when I read the phrase Dharma combat.  Perhaps we could have the theme play when users open such threads (ala myspace back in the day).... jk emoticon

I looked up Ethereum but even the most basic tutorials are too techie for me.  Could you explain more how it relates to morality training?

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:14 AM as a reply to Noah.
All the new folks (myself included) should browse the KFD archives to get a sense of the kind of high quality discussion that is possible on forums like these:


http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archive-wetpaint

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:20 AM as a reply to Noah.
I found your (and Ryan's posts) very useful. I remember well the KFD community in the day. It was incredibly useful and transformative, new practices/techniques/shifts, people discussing through lived experience what new stages might be/might not be. I know that's not what everyone wants, but some of my criticism comes from being a part of that, benefitting greatly. and seeing very little of that spirit of experiential description, opennness and transformation reflected here.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:20 AM as a reply to Noah.
Lol, I was going to write it as Dharma Kombat too. I currently do not understand Ethereum, but my instincts tell me it's a revolutionary idea: it's a generalization of the blockchain...which I don't understand...give me a couple of months. This is a big deal because it allows for secure transactions on the internet without third parties like banks and so on. It allows for a decentralized internet and society well into the future? I don't know, I'm a total noob here, Ethereum is a deep and cutting edge idea that is extremely speculative, but I mentioned it because this is the type of crowd that cares about things like sustainability and so on, and Ethereum is almost a theoretical advanced morality training at this point. Said another way: what does 21st century morality training in action look like?

Anyways, I'll have to think about restructuring the forum a bit to something like 1/3rd as many categories. But divided between Practice categories, General Discussion (Morality) categories, Dharma Kombat (Theory) categories seems interesting to me.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:26 AM as a reply to Ryan J.
Albert Einstein and Neil's Bohr were friends who started hating each other and formed political groups of physicists because they couldn't agree on definitions. The physicist David Bohm tried to tackle this issue, so this is a hard to deal with problem. Practice categories should have the ethos of experiential description over theory, and funnel word definitions into Dharma Combat categories: we can't get rid of these discussions nor want to: so direct them like a river into a padded room where people beat each other senseless, maybe a new technique we've never seen before will manifest, or something old but lost will be recovered.

A sort of internet separation of powers, kinda but not quite.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:28 AM as a reply to Bill F..
Bill,
Its wonderful that you were around to participate back then!  I'm envious.  I think its totally understandable to feel frustrated with the current DHO when compared to that.  I'm hesitant to make this comparison a thing, lest it become another source of festering negativity and trolling, but there is an obvious difference between the two communities.  

I admire many of your posts, specifically the one on no-self and tantra (emotions are sacred, the only self IS the craving- not a seperate thing) from a recent discussion.  I actually copied and pasted it into my google doc of useful quotes from the forums.  I think such levels of understanding and ability to express them are very important.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:35 AM as a reply to Ryan J.
Ryan,

I've got alot of thoughts when I read your responses.  So Ethereum is amazing, I get the basic premise now that you've explained it.   Its totally revolutionary and also fits in with our pragmatic and hardcore atmosphere, as personal enlightenment is a form of revolution/revolt.  A very grounded, effective morality method, no doubt.

Love the image of the river into the padded room.  Can't help continuing the Mortal Kombat metaphor with the idea of the fatality (as an end to a dharma argument).  Dharmatility, Dukkhtality, A-F-tality, any other suggestions are welcome.  Pardon my current hypomania.  

But yeah, that seems like the right idea: use the structure/format of the forum itself to foster a culture where it becomes exceedingly clear who is interested in theory and who is interested in real practice: your "separation of powers", as I interpret it.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:52 AM as a reply to Ryan J.
Okay I was probably wrong about the hating, but I remember a biography on David Bohm discussing about the issue of getting caught up in definitions. Anyways, the Dharma Combat categories should fulfill the awakening version of this:

"The Bohr–Einstein debates were a series of public disputes about quantum mechanics between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr. Their debates are remembered because of their importance to the philosophy of science. An account of the debates was written by Bohr in an article titled "Discussions with Einstein on Epistemological Problems in Atomic Physics".[1] Despite their differences of opinion regarding quantum mechanics, Bohr and Einstein had a mutual admiration that was to last the rest of their lives.[2]

The debates represent one of the highest points of scientific research in the first half of the twentieth century because it called attention to an element of quantum theory, quantum non-locality, which is absolutely central to our modern understanding of the physical world. The consensus view of professional physicists has been that Bohr proved victorious, and definitively established the fundamental probabilistic character of quantum measurement."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr–Einstein_debates

unlike these debates, I'm not sure about a clear victor, but I definitely sense it would foster innovation or a certain depth of path exploration that pure harmony can't deliver.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 11:49 AM as a reply to Noah.
"Can't help continuing the Mortal Kombat metaphor with the idea of the fatality (as an end to a dharma argument).  Dharmatility, Dukkhtality, A-F-tality, any other suggestions are welcome.  Pardon my current hypomania."

Ha! That's great! That would be am awesome lingo to have, and would also ease tensions for something explicitly conflict prone. That's genuine culture right there, the silliness is a great grounding.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 12:05 PM as a reply to Noah.
Yes, I would agree comparisons by and large are not that useful. Focusing on positive change rather than past positives, and saying "This is not like that" is a waste of time. Useful only as in inspiration for what this place might be. Glad you found the writing useful. The crux of shifts that I experienced is contained in KFD. I was under name WF566163 at the time.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 1:18 PM as a reply to Noah.
Our assumptions and lives are always changing. What was once appropriate yesterday may not be appropriate today. The following is my take on restructuring the DhO to satisfy the following constraints:

1) A community for meditation practitioners interested in awakening (Broadly speaking about awakening, without particulars of interpretation of what awakening is: Theravada, Vajrayana, etc. So let's hand-wave awakening for now and leave it as an abstraction for respectful collaboration purposes.) 

That is, a community that is centered around practice, and thus an emphasis on experiential description, effectiveness, pragmatism etc. 

2) A community that is willing to question it's own assumptions. #2 is at odds with #1 because questioning your assumptions may lead to switching techniques at a fundamental level, ie AF, Tantric practices, etc. There is an inevitable tension here. This post is about addressing this issue.

3) A community that feels like a community: if the only things that exists are practice logs, then there is no room for a commons area where people can connect and be off topic. This should be encouraged because a sense of community fosters connection and thus humanizes the community. Also, this banter is morality in action. Morality is the least definable problem space of Morality/Concentration/Insight, and thus due to this nature should be left open ended. What seems off topic may be of central importance to morality, I.e. Ethereum.

Lastly, how may we satisfy the desires of people who wish this place to be about pragmatic practice? How may we satisfy the desires of those who wish to question the very foundations of awakening so that they may find the path appropriate for them or enable themselves to explore awakening at it's deepest possible depths? We can also assume that conflicts of philosophy of awakening are perennial: there is no way to end it, and also you do not want to, as deep questioning breathes life into the dharma, or as I like to say, the path. The worlds most beautiful flower might be found by taking a Hero's journey off the path everyone else is talking about.

My solution is threefold, one of which has been addressed, the third is not a big deal, but something I may address later:

1) More moderators - Addressed already
2) Restructuring the flow of the site, or restructuring the categories each with it's explicit ethos enforced by moderators
3) Sharpening and clarifying the constitution on the front page of the website. - More or less the same, but clarified.

The focus of this post is #2. The central idea behind #2 is a separation of intentions, vaguely inspired by separation of powers of governance. The goal is not to eliminate conflict, neither possible nor desirable, but bring the various intentions into an appropriate discussion space.

The separation of intentions is structured inherently in the layout the site, backed by the ethos of the culture of the DhO, and as a last line of defense, the moderators.

How to instantiate this separation of intentions?

Structure all discussions into three broad categories, each which has sub forums and sub-sub forums. Most importantly, redesign the recent posts function to show this structure, as most people browse this way, since many forums are dead because they're so particular (a forum just for Shinzen Young is too particular) or simply so many it's hard to know where too look: too many options is a burden, quality over quantity.

These three categories are: 

1) Practice Discussion (Meditation practice: insight/concentration/experimental like AF/Etc.)
2) General Discussion (Morality practice)
3) Dharma Kombat (Theortical discussion: AF vs this/that, arguing definition in detail)

The forum is regulated by two things: recent discussion browsing that only gives the 3 above choices. One is forced to go into the three above discussions, or, recent discussion structurally divides these three areas. Said another way, it won't be possible to view recent discussions for the whole entire forum.

A simple ethos for each category:

1) Practice over theory. Hand wave definitions. Focus on experience. If someone practices a different path you have nothing constructive to contribute, don't post. This is about practice, practice, practice, ignoring perfect precision of words. Mods should transplant debates into Dharma Kombat. Users should remind others who wade into debate that they should bring their best fighting techniques and get ready for Kombat!

2) Community discussion. This is just people chatting. Venting out random things, connecting. It should serve as a foundation for morality: what am I up to in my daily life? How do I live my day? This casual discussion lands one quickly into morality. It keeps morality about the world we live and interact with. Real discussions about how we deal with the countless decisions and obstacles we face on a daily basis. No need to be effective or on topic to some goal.

3) Dharma Kombat. This is about getting to the bottom of things. Conflict and tension come with challenging assumptions and the current structures that be. We should adapt and evolve when appropriate. It is not an inherently negative thing. Progress comes out of questioning our assumptions. But this process is by nature unstable, volatile. Changing of the guards brings about a life breathing chaos. It is demarcated and a major aspect of the forum to bring about a balance between stability and instability, practice and theory, going for it now versus stopping and asking what the hell I'm doing on this path, clarifying our own intentions with total transparency, etc. Using lingo that has a sense of humor like Noah gave above will frame this area into something constructive instead of a deep, dark, scary place.


An alpha version take on what this looks like would be the following. But for emphasis, recent discussion would bind each category together, meaning, clicking "Recent posts for Practice Discussion" would be the forum for all recent discussions of the practice discussion forums but not General Discussion and no Dharma Kombat. Likewise for general discussion and Dharma Kombat. There would be no recent discussion for the whole forum like there is now, this constraint acts as the first filter for discussions, forcing people to make a choice on where they think their conversation belongs, versus a general pool like the current recent discussion.

-Practice Discussion: (this itself is not a forum, itself, but would be accessible and acts identically to the recent discussion forum, but only recent posts of it's sub forums)
   -Practice Logs
   -Insight practice discussion
   -Concentration Practice discussion
   -Heavenly Abode, energy practices, and general emotional practices
   -Yoga and other physical practice discussion
   -Magickal practice discussions
   -Actual Freedom practice discussions
   -Tantric practices discussion
   -Anything that doesn't fit above practice discussions.

General Discussion:
    -General Discussion
    -Ideas on Morality
    -Book and teacher recommendations and discussion 
    -Doesn't fit anywhere post here!

Dharma Kombat:
   -General Dharma Kombat
   -Dharma definitions Kombat
   -AF vs the World Kombat
   -10 fetters or Yana X vs the World Kombat
  


Lastly, I threw this together quickly. This isn't my final idea, but something to ponder as actionable to satisfy the various conflicting desires of this community.
   

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 1:58 PM as a reply to Ryan J.
This is a good discussion. I, too, made most of my progress on KFD and then went over to Awakenetwork. Katy made a point, though, asking why people from AN bother to come over here and post. I tend to find things here that I enjoy, although some of it gets into territory I have not experienced. Still, I like hearing from Daniel (the fire kasina retreat was a terrific inspiration, if I can ever get back to it!), and others as well. Sometimes things go off the rails and I get disgusted, but I keep coming back. 

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 3:25 PM as a reply to Ryan J.
Yeah Ryan thats way better than I could have ever put it.  Totally second all content from the post.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 3:33 PM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel, I've read and learned from your practice logs from KFD (JLaurelC- correct me if I'm wrong).  

There are definitely interesting things that arise from all the fighting on the DHO that might not be revealed without the conflict.

I'm also fascinated by the fire kasina experiment.  Yet another practice from the "Path of Purification" text that can be brought into relevance in modern times by actually following the instructions.  I wonder what effects could be expected from 'Using Foulness as a Meditation Object', or extensively focusing on the 'Six Recollections.'

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/12/15 5:00 PM as a reply to Noah.
Yes, that's me! I am so glad people were able to recover those threads. For awhile they were gone, dumped by Wetpaint. I'm glad you found it useful. I picked certain people's threads to read from beginning to end and befitted tremendously. 

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/14/15 3:19 AM as a reply to Noah.
Hi,

If you'll pardon a couple of tangential questions here (being relatively new to the overall context):

What happened to the original KFD discussion forum? and the V2? I mean why are they locked up in archives rather than on-going?

I've found it all at AwakeNetwork, but some links from there are stale. For instance, following a link Nikolai offered, back in a (DhO) thread in early February, got me to "TOPIC: Learning about money", which is readible. But right off the bat there is a link:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Personalized+Instruction
that's stale ("link rot").

Added question: what is "wetpaint"? I'd seen it at times in DhO and thought it was just another avatar.

Many people posting in this thread seem to go back to those days, and may be able to inform me here.

Thanks

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/14/15 7:21 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
What happened to the original KFD discussion forum? and the V2? I mean why are they locked up in archives rather than on-going?

That is Kenneth Folk's choice - he asked us to archive as much of KFD at Awakenetwork.org as was possible, but to make no new active discussions. Kenneth is not a regular message board participant like he once was. You may have noticed that here on DhO recently  :-)

As to the question about why do some Awakenwetwork.org regulars read and post here -- a sense of the history, variety and diversity explain that, IMHO.


Added question: what is "wetpaint"?

Wetpaint was/is a free message board system that anyone could use. DhO was started there and KFD spun off of DhO on Wetpaint in 2009.


http://www.wetpaint.com/


RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/14/15 11:42 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I was on the original KFD list. Then on to overground. When iawaken came up I also went on that. I now go to both but spend more time on overground because there is more variety. Good people on both. I have never found spammers or trolls on either. Maybe I skip over them too quickily to notice.

I was owner and moderator of dhamma-list for over 15 years. There were always people who thought I should moderate less or more. I came to the conclusion you can't please everyone..

I think this list is just right and wouldn't change anything.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/14/15 11:50 AM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.
Hey Jack,
You have an expert opinion/experience, for sure.  Which list are your referring to?  The way the forum is currently ordered or the suggested changes in this thread? Thanks for the input.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/15/15 3:42 PM as a reply to Jack Hatfield.
In reference to Jack's post, I think the issue is not trolls and spammers, but rather a fundamental conflict of values: if someone is fundamentally interested in pragmatism at the expense of the Suttas vs someone fundamentally interested in the Suttas vs someone fundamentally interested in AF vs someone fundamentally interested in this or that, there will be natural tension. Some people can work with this/let go, but it's a natural human response. This isn't trolling, but rather a conflict of values.

The reason I ran with Noah's idea isn't to get rid of trolling or increase moderation (Which already happened), or get rid of conflict, but to structure the site in such a way that people are more forced to decide where their post belongs: practice threads, general banter threads, or theoretical contentious threads, ie, 10 fetter Arhats behavior looks like x, y, z. Also, people looking for a fight or drama will naturally want to click Dharma Kombat, and they'll gravitate there to leave the more practice orientated people to do their thing. And general discussion can act as a valve release for connecting and off topic stuff, humanizing the forum. It won't be flawless, but my guess is it will mitigate drama for zero increased moderation time investment. This self-filtering should hopefully reduce the need to split threads and so on, which takes moderator's time, because people who really want to chat not on topic clearly have the space to do so, and as I stated earlier, this is close to the realm of applied morality: what am I up to in my life right now?

This does not eliminate these inevitable topics but cleans the site and ideally makes the moderators job easier. People who just wanna chat have their place, people who wanna discuss practice have their place, people who want to discuss the deep differences in paths have their place and yet it remains one forum.

I'd still push for this layout even without drama because the navigation is messy. I was also going to redesign the logos after seeing the atrocious logo/MCTB cover designs not only from Daniel but a lot of other people, sheesh! Where's the aesthetic taste? I'm finally getting a real computer (I use an iPad) soon so I might design something neat and throw it into the gladiator arena that is the community's opinion, but that's a different topic!

I spend my time practicing and learning about algorithms, Oculus Rift, Ethereum, etc. If we had a general discussion thread I'd comment on all this as it relates to daily life. This is relevant because it's a core aspect of morality training. I'm not instinctively drawn to comment on the barren Morality forum that currently exists. I'm sure people here and there want absolutely nothing to change, but I think most people would enjoy a more streamlined user experience just like people prefer a well designed modern website vs some early 2000 website overloaded with links to game Google's page rank.

I'm leaving on retreat later today so I will not be able to follow up with this topic for a week. I'd add on a few more forums to the list, like Practice Discussion --> magick discussion --> lucid dreaming discussion or Dharma Kombat --> Sutta Intepretation Kombat, Practice Discussion --> Practice Logs --> Claim to Attainments and a few others. And if the powers that be want to keep it mostly the same, then that would still work, just keep most of the sub-categories that currently exist and group them under the 3 corresponding main categories and change the recent discussion function and rename morality as general discussion. I wouldn't recommend keeping as many sub threads as there are, however, and really think the added General Discussion and Dharma Kombat main categories would untangle the various intentions people bring to the site. Awake Network already has particular typed recent post discussion, but due to their seeming unique history as a sub sub community of a sub sub sub sub community (DhO) they don't seem to have same issue that the DhO has (growth), which I will put money on will only get slightly worse in the long run as the demographics attracted increase: BATGAP interviews, Buddhist Geeks, people like Dan and Sam Harris imply a larger incoming pool of meditators.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/16/15 7:27 AM as a reply to Ryan J.
Ryan's last post is it.  All of the above.  Second.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/16/15 3:24 PM as a reply to Noah.
Lots of good ideas here.

Liferay has the capacity easily to create communities, or, rather, sub-communities. Originally, when we moved from WetPaint, the place was set up that way. There were six communities, each with its own forum. Nearly nobody joined. Nearly nothing happened there. They finally went away due to disuse and lack of interest.

However, recently I have had a lot of people asking for little spaces away from the larger forum board where they can feel secure in their more focused needs.

It will cause some splitting of the DhO but will also cause some more focus for those who want it, if anyone actually participates in those communities.

Some Community ideas are posted above. Any others?

Thanks again,

Daniel

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/16/15 4:30 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Some tech suggestions:

Idr which version of Liferay we're on but here are addons for embedding Youtube videos and one such that each user can personalize their theme

Youtube for CE
Youtube for EE
Theme Personalizer

Polls would also be cool. I'm reading that they come as a default portlet in Liferay, but I can't find a "Content" in my "Control Panel".

And, I dunno if post signatures are possible on Liferay but that would also be cool

edit:
Oh, and I sorta like the Like button over at Awakenetwork. It has some downsides but maybe we can take a vote on it. I doubt this is easily possible on Liferay but wanted to throw it out there

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
3/4/17 11:58 PM as a reply to Noah.
Noah:
.....
-Restructure the discussion categories.  I don't know how easy this would be and have no experience as a programmer.  However, a lot of the discussions going on here should probably be in "the Dharma Battleground".  Perhaps this should be one of the first categories.  Furthermore, the parameters of what a Dharma Battle is should be clearly defined.  When threads are posted in other sections and start to go in this direction, a moderator should move that thread or the arguement part of it to the "Dharma Battleground" section.
  ....
+1 for this idea

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/16/15 4:44 PM as a reply to Ryan J.
Ryan Kenneth Johnson:
.... The goal is not to eliminate conflict, neither possible nor desirable, but bring the various intentions into an appropriate discussion space.


+1 for this also.

Its akin to your mum (the moderators) telling you to go outside into the garden if you wish to continue your wrestling match with your brothers, so nothing gets smashed in the house

I've seen the Tibetan Buddihsits doing this "battle" in the courtyard, which is a fundemenal part of their practice. I personally dont have any interest in debating Suttas / Pali cannon / etc etc. Im purely interested in guidance from people based on thier real world expierence, so if there was a "courtyard" where people could "go outside" and debate that kind of thing to thier hearts content, that would satisfy those who wanted to do that, and it would also leave a bit more peace and quiet in the library for the rest of us!!

(Blimey, im starting to sound like an old man!)  

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/16/15 4:42 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel,

I would suggest that we try to devise a way to make "the more focused needs" the main bulk of the "larger forum board", i.e. discourage theoritcal bandying and encourage direct practice discussion.  One way to do this would be to aggressively move debate-style threads into the dharma battleground section.  Siphoning off these threads into this corner might start to encourage more participation in practice/direct experience-style threads.  

Also, perhaps you could encourage the moderator's to try to change the culture a bit.  One way to do this would be to ask debators for the phenomenological evidence or the personal experience behind their arguments.  If they are not able to provide such evidence, they could, at least, be discouraged from continuing discussion.  Also, moderator's could try to interrupt threads when posters begin to target the word choice of other participants instead of the actual concepts being discussed.  Ways to "interrupt" or "discourage" include banning, threatening banning, freezing threads, moving whole threads, moving parts of threads, and also just generally shaming people for stupid, argumentative or meaningless participation.  Perhaps others can think of more flexible methods.

Anyway, my overall goal would be to create one, large, positive community whose main focus would be direct practice and conceptual understanding as a support to that practice.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/18/15 11:36 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
Lots of good ideas here.

Liferay has the capacity easily to create communities, or, rather, sub-communities. Originally, when we moved from WetPaint, the place was set up that way. There were six communities, each with its own forum. Nearly nobody joined. Nearly nothing happened there. They finally went away due to disuse and lack of interest.

However, recently I have had a lot of people asking for little spaces away from the larger forum board where they can feel secure in their more focused needs.

It will cause some splitting of the DhO but will also cause some more focus for those who want it, if anyone actually participates in those communities.

Some Community ideas are posted above. Any others?

Thanks again,

Daniel

Hello Daniel,

As Actualism claims to be 180 degree opposite to Buddhism, it would be better for everybody to have a separate community for anything related to Actualism. I would suggest that Magick should have its own separate community as well.

If somebody doesn't want to participate in their specific community, then they should not troll in some other community.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/19/15 4:09 PM as a reply to Change A..
What happened to the sticky threads? Regardless of any creation of sub-communities, I would like to see again at the top of Recent Posts the "Best Threads" sticky thread. 

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
3/4/17 11:58 PM as a reply to Noah.
re: Noah (4/16/15 4:42 PM as a reply to Daniel M.Ingram.)

I've grouped a series of comments to this thread into two parts, here a first group of relatively straightforward technical points. Following will be a second post with points that are more interpretational.

I. Technical comments:

1) As someone above mentioned, (here seconded) the ability to see the enclosing hierarchy of a thread (where the thread one's looking at is located in the overall category, sub-category structure) is definitely desireable. This would help orientation in general, and help keep a sense of context, e.g. perhaps help deciding to where to begin or fork-off a new thread. Is it doable?

1A) Oddly, s/t I get email notifications of new posts, where the email subject field does show the enclosing category, in "[…]" brackets. This suggests that making enclosing context more visible in general is doable.


2) When threads are forked (split-off), are there explicit links at the place of splitting in the old thread to the new fork? And in the OP of the new fork is there an explicit link back to where it was split-off from? Then, using multiple open windows, one could more effectivly track multiple discussions. That is to say, I propose this practice – forward linking at the point of split-off and backward linking at the OP of the forked thread -- be recommend in DhO quidelines (under technical, not ethical guidelines).

2A) Another quirk noticed that relates here: In a forked thread, some posts carry the title line of the original (forked-from) thread, while other posts have the title line of the newer (forked-to) thread. That's an annoyance, but can be more significant in that the title is carried over when one replies to a post, so people might go looking for context (to help understand what's going-on) in the wrong thread.


3) Another aspect of the orientation/perspective problems with the current implementation of thread structure is that the index at the top shows a hierarchy of sub-threads – the chains of who was responding to what. For instance – s/t known as a "tree-structure":

1.0 "OP" post
    1.1 1st post replying to1.0
        1.1.1 reply to 1.1
            1.1.1.1 reply to 1.1.1
       1.1.2 next reply to 1.1
    1.2 2nd reply to 1.0 …
    ...
BUT, reading through the chronologically organized posts sequentially, it's difficult to follow a specific sub-thread ("branch" of the tree structure); one stumbles through a mish-mash of those sub-discussions interspersed within each other in order of time-posted. That's often distracting. It's not clear anything can be done about this other than more aggressive thread-splitting, by participants and/or moderators. It could be the software platform is just stuck doing things that way.

(A possible perceived benefit of the chronological mish-mash situation here is that one may feel that one's posts will be seen, even by others interested mainly in other branches of the discussion. Whereas otherwise others may not get the benefit of being able to "appreciate", or perhaps "lash-back" at posts from other sub-threads.)

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
3/5/17 12:00 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
re: Noah(4/16/15 4:42 PM as a reply to Daniel M.Ingram.)

II) Interpretive comments (possibly preferential or biased):

1) Reworking categories is invitable in that they're often initially set-up provisionally, thinking that's the way it will work best. Usage experience may indicate adjustment would help according to demonstrated needs, and the needs will probably change over time and call for re-adjustment, often again and again.

A lesson from the field of software design is to expect, count on the users to change their minds as to what they need over time. So, consider "user-extensibility" as a core feature, so, in the face of changing needs, the participants can dynamically reshape the system "on the fly", rather then having to gut and re-work the underlying platform.

A specific: Can parts of threads be "modularlized" and linked to from multiple places in other threads? (Yes, using hypertext links.) Hypertext links could be used more extensively (as more than just external references) to support creative structuring within the given platform framework (and workable using multiple open windows).

When categories are set-up to enforce how people SHOULD participate… well, what's the track-record of such attempts (in terms of thriving diversity, resiliency, and longevity)?

2) "One way to do this [moderators changing the culture] would be to ask debators for the phenomenological evidence or the personal experience behind their arguments."
Great idea, for others as well as moderators to try. Might encourage people to stop and think before going on and on, and help keep people mindful that they're speaking from a point of view. A POV, at best, stems from a person's own experiential validation of some sort. When voiced without reference to the underlying experience, it may be perceived as, or even put forth as statement of some "truth" applying to everyone (and we all know where that can lead). Both speaker and listener, if kept mindful of the POV aspect, are less likely to perceive threat orother stress; more likely to enquire and perhaps learn.

3) "Also, moderator's could try to interrupt threads when posters begin to target the word choice of other participants instead of the actual concepts being discussed."
This can be tricky. At one extreme, simply throwing often poorly understood words/concepts against other people's often poorly understood words/concepts is a sure formula for the kind of interaction that easily gets overheated and drives others away. On the other hand, mindfulness of verbal behavior and one's degree of discernment (insight), which can reflect in word-choice, is an important insight tool. That may appear academic and oppressive to some, who are rightly entitled to perhaps request more intelligible (less linguistically technical) explanation. I would just caution against trying to institutionally outlaw a practice (like semantics or epistomology), on the basis of what may be personal preference.

4) There are many discussions involving Suttas, Pali or other Canons, etc. that are not "debates, "but rather explorations and contribute to practice and realizations.Those that want to be combative will do so on any topic.

5) backing-up to the top of Noah's post:
" I would suggest that we try to devise a way to make "the more focused needs" the main bulk of the "larger forum board", i.e.  discourage theoretical bandying and encourage direct practice discussion.  One way to do this would be to aggressively move debate-style threads into the dharma battleground section.  Siphoning off these threads into this corner might start to encourage more participation in practice/direct experience-style threads."

Would that really work, and maintain the vibrancy and general appeal of DhO? I mean, why not just speak in terms of better defining categories and locations for this (theoretical…) or that (practice…), or whatever other kind of discussion to be able to go on without disturbing each other? The choice of language (sorry, may offend, as per 3 above) – "discourage" / "encourage"; "move … into the corner" – suggests there's to be a priviledged class and others are to be side-lined. (Assuming here here that all of these this's and that’s are within the scope of the overall DhO missionstatement / guidelines.)

Trying to homogenize DhO, make it narrowly focused on what some prefer… doesn't that run the risk of becoming, for instance, a "V3" (after KDF and V2) and ending up the same way? (Note: Trying to use reason and perspective here, and not stir-up a hornet's nest…)

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/19/15 11:42 PM as a reply to Change A..
re: Change A. (4/18/15 11:36 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingra)

" If somebody doesn't want to participate in their specific community, then they should not troll in some other community."
I guess I don't quite understand that, or feel threatened by it. One signs up for some community (or multiple communities?), and then can't browse, contribute constructively to other communities?

re: Pablo . P (4/19/15 4:09 PM as a reply to Change A..)
"What happened to the sticky threads?"
New term to me. Could you explain it?

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 1:26 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
I second all of Chris's technical comments, particularly exploring other ways to navigate the tree structure at the top of threads (is there a way to simplify this layout or make it look more user friendly, i.e. apple products //  is there a way to change the colors of hyperlinks to indicate a debate section of the thread vs a theoretical section of the thread vs a direct practice section of the thread [just using the imagination here] ).  Also found ease of navigating between forked off threads to be a promising notion.

With regard to some of Chris's interpretive comments; I am starting to realize the value that others find in semantical discussions, epistemiological discussions, and purely theoretical discussion.  I suppose that I am a purist in leaning towards pragmatic practice, since I was raised by two parents who had both studied in multiple eastern traditions and was always told to take what I could use and discard the rest.  

Also, I do feel that the DHO could use a correction in culture.  It seems that cultures shift over time, going to one extreme and then moving in the opposite direction until (in an ideal world) they achieve some balance in the middle.  Pragmatic Dharma, for instance, has provided an effective counter-option to these seeking an oasis from mushroom culture.  I see relatively a lot of "brawling" between posters right now without exact references to phenomena they have experienced on the cushion.  I know people are growing from this.  But I would still try to marginalize such activity, nonetheless.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 1:32 AM as a reply to Noah.
It is totally understandable that Daniel does not have a ton of time to devote to any potential innovation of the message board.

How can we make these improvements quicker and easier for Daniel to consider?

Perhaps the moderators (who also might have not much time individually) can combine their free time, and energy, to most effectively to implement whatever changes they see fit.  I am sure such discussions are already in the works, but maybe we can help, somehow, out in the open.

What type of communication needs to occur between Daniel and the moderators for them to be able to make useful changes that he has agreed to?  What type of communication needs to happen between moderators and the general DHO populace along these lines?

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 6:39 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
Chris J Macie:

"What happened to the sticky threads?"
New term to me. Could you explain it?

A "sticky" thread is one that is placed permanently at the top of a forum / category. Even if no one posts in it, it will still show up on the first page. This is often done for special announcements, rules / guidelines, and FAQs.

Source: http://www.answers.com/ 

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 8:42 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
Chris J Macie:
re: Change A. (4/18/15 11:36 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingra)

" If somebody doesn't want to participate in their specific community, then they should not troll in some other community."
I guess I don't quite understand that, or feel threatened by it. One signs up for some community (or multiple communities?), and then can't browse, contribute constructively to other communities?

I meant that one signs up for some community belonging to the practice they are doing and then contribute constructively to their community rather than trying to silent the voice of someone who has a negative view of their community in other communities. For eg. what Alin has been doing recently.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 9:37 AM as a reply to Change A..
Great thread; a lot to consider here. I really like the ideas about making categories more clear again, getting the sticky threads back, and generally as far as moderation goes i really like the idea of thread splitting as a way to manage some of the noise. I wonder the technical feasibility of the many good suggestions in this thread, particularly around making what category a given thread is in obvious and returning the sticky threads?

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 9:40 AM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
Great thread; a lot to consider here. I really like the ideas about making categories more clear again, getting the sticky threads back, and generally as far as moderation goes i really like the idea of thread splitting as a way to manage some of the noise. I wonder the technical feasibility of the many good suggestions in this thread, particularly around making what category a given thread is in obvious and returning the sticky threads?


Sticky threads is a tech head issue i think. Spltting threads is something we should do as soon as we see a thread getting diverted. There is then no interruption to whatever routes the conversation shave taken. Get splitting, Jake! ;-)

Nick

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 10:21 AM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Ha! Still waiting for my tutorial... I haven't noticed any new buttons yet...?
And I think we should talk about how aggressively we want to moderate i.e. do we wait for a participant to complain or request intervention or do we just start splitting any thread that goes off topic? Some folks start trheads and don't mind things wandering where they listeth, some folks prefer to keep a tight focus on their OP.

Or has this question allready been decided?
And where are my buttons!!!??? lol

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 3:44 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
Ha! Still waiting for my tutorial... I haven't noticed any new buttons yet...?
And I think we should talk about how aggressively we want to moderate i.e. do we wait for a participant to complain or request intervention or do we just start splitting any thread that goes off topic? Some folks start trheads and don't mind things wandering where they listeth, some folks prefer to keep a tight focus on their OP.

Or has this question allready been decided?
And where are my buttons!!!??? lol
Hey Jake, are you getting the emails from the dho-mod list by any chance?

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 3:47 PM as a reply to Nikolai ..
Nikolai .:

Sticky threads is a tech head issue i think. Spltting threads is something we should do as soon as we see a thread getting diverted. There is then no interruption to whatever routes the conversation shave taken. Get splitting, Jake! ;-)

Nick

Since Liferay 6.2 sticky threads exist but are only shown when visiting a category directly, not from the recent posts view. It's on the todo list of things to fix but unfortunately it's not an easy fix.

Simon

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 3:59 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
Ha! Still waiting for my tutorial... I haven't noticed any new buttons yet...?
And I think we should talk about how aggressively we want to moderate i.e. do we wait for a participant to complain or request intervention or do we just start splitting any thread that goes off topic? Some folks start trheads and don't mind things wandering where they listeth, some folks prefer to keep a tight focus on their OP.

Or has this question allready been decided?
And where are my buttons!!!??? lol


Ive really only done it so far when someone complains. But if after 10 to 20  posts or so the Opening topic has been lost, then I make the decision to split. Though, I'm not checking every thread. Just the bigger ones that have a number of posters. Usually when it is obvious that the new direction of a few posters is not the theme of the thread and it could stop others posting bout the actual theme of the thread would I consider splitting, or when there is a complaint like n the recent posts by Alin. 

The bottom right corner is where the split button is on any post on a thread.

Nick

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 4:09 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:

And where are my buttons!!!??? lol

Your moderator permissions were missing, I've fixed it so you should have the buttons now. But like Beoman said, check the mod list.

Simon

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 4:28 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Thanks, Simon, I have the buttons now ) I'm not receiving any emails either on my email associated with my DhO account or in my DhO PMs yet from the mod list.

Nik, the way you've been approaching it makes sense to me. Generally I have found the moderation here to be excellent, when it has actually happened, and the latter I assume is due to this being a very active board with only a few moderators. I think adding moderators was a smart move. I look forward to working with you guys.  

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/20/15 4:34 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
Thanks, Simon, I have the buttons now ) I'm not receiving any emails either on my email associated with my DhO account or in my DhO PMs yet from the mod list.


Is the email you have set on your account here on the DhO correct? If so, Florian will need to update the address subscribed to the mod list. It's currently the same as the one on your DhO profile but with the 'h' missing.

Simon

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
4/23/15 3:26 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
After skimming all the other suggestions, I instinctively like each one. I feel there's a lot I could still write and little to actually say, so that would consume too much time when I'm going through an extra intensive practice phase and I don't want to lose that momentum by over intellectualizing stuff.

That being said, personally, what I wrote previously is most of what I want to see.  My aim was balance between no forum splitting as it currently stands and too much forum splitting, which is unnecessary complexity. From the sounds of it was attempted before with negative results? I wasn't here then, but that makes senses that overly particular communities die out, like a digital loneliness. My reasoning on dividing it into the 3 categories of practice, general discussion, dharma Kombat is that these 3 aspects just don't seem like they would ever go away: there will always be people talking about practice and always at least one debate, which is contrasted to a dividing exclusive area that's much less general, such as dividing a forum only for Ajahn Chah people who carry his legacy of distaste for Mahasi Sayadaw's teaching on to the DhO: http://www.spiritrock.org/document.doc?id=7 (End of first page, Jack Kornfield comments on this, this article is also directly relevant to this thread and is stunning to read in light of DhO drama, because it's Jack Kornfield's recalling of what went well and what went wrong with founding the IMS/Spirit Rock as well as things like his gestimates to what percentage of people attain Stream Entry/what it's like/etc.) and thus find conflict with Mahasi's legacy when their fandom for Ajahn Chah meets the DhO.

I really don't feel I have much more to say. I could propose how to merge and consolidate the current forums into a new slimmed and hierarchal forum list and map it, which I might do if I'm bored. So at this point I've feel I've said essentially what I need to say and that I like what everyone else wrote.

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
3/5/17 6:29 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
CJMacie edited his posts above and so I thought there might be renewed interest in these topics, so I am bumping this thread.

That said, after the debacle that switching to Liferay 7 created, and with all the taxing complexity and time that cost the development support tech people (Manish and Simon particularly),  and the work required to then switch back to Liferay 6, I have generally been letting the DhO be as it currently is tech-wife, but there may be a few focused suggestions we could implement.

Thoughts?

Daniel
DhO Junior Scut-Monkey and Assistant Dishwasher

RE: Thoughts on Specific Improvements to the DHO Itself
Answer
3/5/17 10:05 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel:
CJMacie edited his posts above and so I thought there might be renewed interest in these topics, so I am bumping this thread.

Sorry about the confusion.  I had actually asked Dream Walker to clean up my last name from prior posts in which it had been quoted (thus making it googleable, thus potentially not-so-great for my career in it's infancy, etc.).  So any notifications of edits were due to deleting one word from the quote block of certain threads