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The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana

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http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/rich_text_5.html

I have pdfs for many of the Tantras mentioned in the bibliography, if anyone's interested
The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana Tradition: a brief summary of preliminary findings together with a partial bibliography R.C. Parker

             Warning: datura is an extremely powerful and dangerous hallucinogen. In addition to the dangers inherent in severe hallucinosis, the plant is quite toxic. There have been reports of coma and death resulting from this toxicity.

The broad definition of entheogen used here is: "plants or substances capable of producing visionary experiences which are used for magico-religious or psychospiritual purposes." The use of entheogens in the Vajrayana tradition has been documented by such scholars as Ronald M Davidson, William George Stablein, Bulcsu Siklos, David B. Gray, Benoytosh Bhattacharyya, Shashibhusan Das Gupta, Francesca Fremantle, Shinichi Tsuda, David Gordon White, Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz, James Francis Hartzell, Edward Todd Fenner, Ian Baker, Dr. Pasang Yonten Arya and numerous others. The research of these scholars has established that these plants were definitely used in Vajrayana (within limited contexts) and that they were used in a manner largely consistent with their use in Saivite and shamanic traditions. 
                    
This investigation has focused primarily on the use of entheogens in the anuttara-yoga-tantra materials especially (but not exclusively) the Yogini-tantras. The research has centered on the use of datura and cannabis (which are consider entheogenic plants despite the fact that neither is a "classical psychedelic").             
    
The findings that have the most immediately obvious significance are the numerous references to pills, siddhi-drugs, and rasayana elixirs that contain either datura or cannabis. (Stablein 1976, Baker 2004, Gray. 2007, Walter 1986, Fenner 1979, Dash 1988, Arya 1998)
      
The importance of ointments and homa-rituals making use of datura is not as readily apparent. Davidson has commented on these noting that datura was “employed as a narcotic paste or as wood in a fire ceremony and could be easily absorbed through the skin or the lungs. The seeds of this powerful narcotic, termed "passion seeds"  (candabija), are the strongest elements and contain the alkaloids hyoscine, hyoscyamine, and atropine in forms that survive burning or boiling. In even moderate doses, datura can render a person virtually immobile with se­vere belladonna-like hallucinations.” Numerous references were found to the use of datura in ointments (Stablein 1976, Baker 2004, Hartzell 1991, Davidson 2002). Homa-rituals making use of datura were found to be quite common (Gray 2007, Siklos 1993 & 1996, Tsuda 1974, Fremantle 1971, Nebesky-Wojkowitz 1956, Hartzell 1991, Davidson 2002). Also found was a detailed meditation on the drug-induced visionary experience as a method to gain insight into the nature of reality (Stearns 2006).
  Generally speaking, the references that have been located originate in sources that can be divided into three categories:

1) Primary Literature (numerous primary and secondary tantras, original Indian commentaries, and the stories and songs related to the Indian tantric mahasiddhas)
2) Secondary Literature (rituals texts of Tibetan or Newar origin, various gter-ma or "treasure texts", as well as Tibetan commentarial literature)
3) Modern Ethnological Research (studies by researchers such as anthropologist and ethnologists which document the use of entheogens within the living traditions of Vajrayana among the Nepalese, Tibetans, Bhutanese etc)
 
1) A number of the "major" tantras within the Vajrayana tradition specifically mention entheogens (datura and/or cannabis) and their use. These include the Laghusamvara-tantra (aka Chakrasamvara-tantra), Samputa-tantra, Samvarodaya-tantra, Mahakala-tantra, Guhyasamaja-tantra, Vajramahabhairava-tantra, and the Krsnayamari-tantra. Relevant material can also be found in the Candamaharosana-tantra and the Caturpitha-tantra. There are a number of tantras of secondary importance (within the Indo-Tibetan tantric traditions) that mention entheogens such as Amrtakalasa-tantra, Tara-tantra and the Anuttaratara-tantra. Of course, mentions of entheogens can also be found in commentaries on the tantras. Interestingly, some commentaries to tantras will mention the use of specific entheogens even when the tantra itself does not; examples of this are Vajragarbha's Dasasahasrika-Hevajra-tika (a Hevajra commentary) and Pundarika's Vimalaprabha (the main commentary to the Kalachakra-tantra). Included in what is considered the "primary literature" are the traditional stories and songs relating to the tantric mahasiddhas. These include such standard Vajrayana texts as the Caturasiti-siddha-pravrtti and the Carya-giti-kosa-vrtti. Also included are sources of stories and songs relating to the mahasiddhas from the Indian vernacular literature such as the Gopicander-Sannyas (although it could be argued that these vernacular sources are best grouped amongst the "secondary literature")
  
2) The Tibetan and Newar literature mentioning entheogens. This includes the Tibetan commentarial literature (for instance lam 'bras texts from the sa skya tradition such as _dpal sa skya pa'i lam 'bras kyi chos gces btus_). Although they are usually said to be the work of early Indic visitors to Tibet, I classify the Tibetan "treasure literature" as secondary texts of Tibetan origin. An example of a "treasure text" that includes formulas for pills and ointments containing datura is the _bi ma snying thig_. Of course it goes without saying that commentaries on the "treasure literature" (which mention entheogens) such as Longchenpa's _snying thig ya bzhi_ or Jigmed Tenpa'i Nyima's _gter gyi rnam bshad_ are included as secondary texts. Ritual texts would also fall into what I consider the secondary literature.
       
3) A number of anthropologists, ethnologists, and ethnobotanists have documented the use of entheogens within the living traditions of Vajrayana practiced in Nepal and to a lesser extent Tibet and Bhutan.
       
When these sources are taken together, their combined weight leaves little room for doubt that Vajrayana has had a well-documented tradition of making use of entheogenic plants (especially datura and cannabis) for magico-religious and psychospiritual purposes. While this use may never have been particularly widespread, it is certainly significant.


Partial Bibliographic List of Resources        
It is unfortunate that many of the references to entheogens in the below literature amount to only a couple of sentences buried deep within a scholarly text dedicated to other subjects. Very few of these resources contain a sustained discussion of these plants and their significance in Vajrayana. It is hoped that, in the future, this topic willed receive a more thorough treatment.         

Vajrayana and the use of datura and cannabis       
David B. Gray. 2007, The Cakrasamvara Tantra (The Discourse of Sri Heruka) A Study and Annotated Translation (cannabis and datura)
  
William George Stablein 1976, The Mahakalatantra: A theory of ritual blessings and tantric medicine Doctoral Dissertation, Columbia University (datura in pills and ointments, cannabis, betel, and other psychoactive plants)
              
Bulcsu Siklos 1996, The Vajrabhairava Tantras  (datura and possibly cannabis)
            
Shinichi Tsuda 1974, The Samvarodaya-Tantra: Selected Chapters. Tokyo: The Hokuseido Press. (datura, betel and possibly cannabis)
             
Francesca Fremantle 1971, A Critical Study of the Guhyasamaja Tantra. Doctoral Dissertation University of London (datura)
               
Michael Walter 1986, The Tantra a Vessel of bdud rtsi: a Bon text published in Journal of the Tibet Society 1987 Vol. 8 pgs 25-72 (cannabis, betel, and other psychoactive plants)
             
Malati J Shendge 2004, Satsahasrika-Hevajra Tika (datura?)
            
Cyrus Stearns 2006. Taking the Result as the Path: Core Teachings of the Sakya Lamdre Tradition (datura)
            
Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz 1956, Oracles and Demons of Tibet - The Cult and Iconography of the Tibetan Protective Dieties (datura and cannabis)
                 
James Francis Hartzell 1991,Tantric Yoga: A Study of the Vedic Precursors, Historical Evolution, Literatures, Cultures, Doctrines, and Practices of the llth Century Kasmiri Saivite and Buddhist Unexcelled Tantric Yogas Doctoral Dissertation, Columbia  University (datura in the Vimalaprabha and the Krsnayamari-tantra )
          
Edward Todd Fenner 1979, Rasayana-Siddhi: Medicine and Alchemy in the Buddhist Tantras Doctoral Dissertation University of Wisconsin-Madison (datura in the Vimalaprabha’s rasayana siddhi medicines)
               
Ronald M Davidson 2002, Indian Esoteric Buddhism: a social history of the Tantric movement (datura and betel)
               
Bulcsu Siklos 1993, Datura Rituals in the Vajramahabhairava Tantra  published in Curare Vol 16 (1993) pgs 71-76 (datura)
                 
William Stabtein 1976, "Mahakala the Neo-Shaman: Master of the Ritual" published in Spirit Possession in the Nepal Himalayas. John T. Hitchcock and Rex L. Jones, eds,, pp. 361-375. (datura)
              
Tulku Thondup Rinpoche 1997, Hidden Teachings of Tibet (datura)
          
Ian Baker 2004, The Heart of the World, (datura in the Vima Nyingthig and the Nyingthig Yabzhi)
               
Dr. Pasang Yonten Arya 1998, Dictionary of Tibetan Materia Medica (mentions the use of cannabis as a rasayana type elixir in a Tibetan tantra related to the goddess Tara) 
   
Vaidya Bhagwan Dash 1988, Formulary of Tibetan Medicine (contains a number of rasayana derived “mercurial medicines” containing cannabis and one with datura)
             
Lama Zopa Rinpoche 1974, Kopan Course No. 7 (datura)
          
Girish Chandra Vedantatirtha ed. 1914, Tara Tantra. Tara-Tantram, With an Introduction by A. K. Maitra. (cannabis)
  Siddha stories and songs         
Keith Dowman 1985, Masters of Mahamudra; Songs and Histories of the Eighty-Four Buddhist Siddhas (cannabis and datura)
   
Benoytosh Bhattacharyya 1931, An Introduction to Buddhist Esoterism (cannabis and datura)
            Shashibhusan Das Gupta 1976, Obscure Religious Cults, (cannabis and datura)
                  David Gordon White 1996, The Alchemical Body: Siddha Traditions in Medieval India. (cannabis)
                Ann Grodzins Gold 1992, A Carnival of Parting, The Tales of King Bharthari and King Gopi-Chand as Sung and told by Madhu Natisar Nath of Ghatiyali, Rajasthan / Translated with an Introduction and Afterword by Ann Grodzins Gold (cannabis)
          
Keith Dowman 1988, Masters of Enchantment (datura)
           
Lalit Tiwari (undated), Siddha Medicine: Its Basic Concepts (cannabis associated with the mahasiddha Goraksa)
           
      Mike Crowley 2007 personal communication                              

Datura visions and insight into the illusory nature of reality                   
Cyrus Stearns 2006. Taking the Result as the Path: Core Teachings of the Sakya Lamdre Tradition (datura)
             
Herbert V. Guenther 1976, Kindly Bent to Ease Us: Wonderment (datura) 
        
Tulku Thonlop Rinpoche 1989, Buddha Mind: An Anthology of Lonchen Rabjam’s Wrtings on  Dzogpa Chenpo
                      
Dudjom Rinpoche 1991, The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism: Its Fundamentals and History (datura) 
            
Longchenpa (undated), The Commentary On The Great Perfection: The Nature Of Mind, The Easer Of Weariness Called The Great Chariot (datura) 
                   
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche 2006, Repeating the words of the Buddha (datura)
                 
Robert Thurman 1995, Essential Tibetan Buddhism (datura)
                      
Elías Capriles 2006, Beyond Being Beyond Mind, Beyond History: A Dzogchen founded meta-transpersonal, meta-postmodern philosophy and psychology for survival and an age of communion (datura)
                    
Keith Dowman 1988, Masters of Enchantment (datura)
               
Keith Dowman 1985, Masters of Mahamudra; Songs and Histories of the Eighty-Four Buddhist Siddhas (cannabis and datura)
                      
Chikyo Yamamoto 1990, Mahavairocana Sutra (siddhi drugs and unspecified hallucinogens)
                                
Relevant ethnological or ethnobotanital research relating to the use of cannabis       
Sami Kivelä 2005, The Sarced Hilltop: A Hermeneutical Case Study on the Svayambhu  Site in Kathmandu. Master’s thesis, University of Helsinki. (cannabis and betel)
                  
Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz 1956, Oracles and Demons of Tibet - The Cult and Iconography of the Tibetan Protective Dieties (datura and cannabis)
                 
Mia Touw 1981, The religious and medicinal uses of Cannabis in China, India and Tibet published in Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 13: 23-34 (cannabis)
                    
G. K. Sharma 1977, Cannabis Folklore in the Himalayas published in Harvard Botanical Museum Leaflets Vol. 25 No.7 (cannabis)
                 
G.K. Sharma, 1977, Ethnobotany and its significance for Cannabis studies in the Himalayas published in Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol. 9(4): 537-339. (cannabis)
                   
Christian Rätsch 2000, Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas  (information on cannabis, datura, and betel etc in Himalayan traditions)
               
Christian Rätsch, 1998, Marijuana Medicine (cannabis)
                  
Richard Evans Schultes and Albert Hofmann 1992, Plants of the Gods pgs 97-98. (cannabis)
                  
Michael R. Aldrich 1977, Tantric Cannabis Use in India published in Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol. 9 (Jul-Sep) No.3 pgs 227-233 (cannabis)
                      
        
           
Miscellaneous             
Giuseppe Tucci 1980, The Religions of Tibet. English translation by Geoffrey Samuel (unspecified intoxicating plants)
    
John A Ardussi 1977, Brewing and Drinking the Beer of Enlightenment in Tibetan Buddhism: The Doha Tradition published in Tibet Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 97 No. 2 pgs 115-124 (ointments for siddhis)
                
    
       
Pan-Indian Yogic tradition and the use of cannabis and datura            
Frits Staal 1975, Exploring Mysticism (cannabis and datura)
                        
Pratricia J Morningstar 1985, Thandai and Chilam: Traditional beliefs about the proper uses of Cannabis published in Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 17(3) pgs 141-165
              
Michael R. Aldrich 1977, Tantric Cannabis Use in India published in Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol. 9 (Jul-Sep) No.3 pgs 227-233 (cannabis)  
       
Ethan Russo 2005, Cannabis in India: ancient lore and modern Medicine published in R. Mechoulam 2005 (ed.) Cannabinoids as Therapeutics (cannabis)     
              Sures Chandra Banerji 1992, New Light on Tantra (cannabis and datura)
               
Swami Satyananda Sawaswati 1984, Kundalini Tantra (cannabis)
               
Swami Satyananda Sawaswati 1984, Sure Ways to Self Realization (datura and cannabis)
               
Georg Feuerstein 1998, The Yoga Tradition: its history, literature, philosophy, and practice (datura and cannabis)
                  
Agehananda Bharati 1970, The Tantric Tradition (cannabis)
      
Robert "Rio" Hahn 2003, Swami’s Sacred Plant, A Report of Unprecedented Datura Use In Nepal published in The Entheogen Review Vol.7 No. 1 pgs 9-14 (datura)
          
N. N. Bhattacharyya 2006, History of the Tantric Religion: An Historical, Ritualistic, and Philosophical Study  (cannabis)
                
Mircea Eliade 1990, Yoga: immortality and freedom (cannabis)


RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/28/15 1:51 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
Very interesting, thank you! I'd love to see the PDFs... I'm going to try to get my hands on most of the books he lists. This is a topic I've thought about and discussed with my teachers quite a bit. 

Although - datura? That's one that never made it to my to-try list.

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/28/15 8:05 PM as a reply to sloane.
I've just made a thread with some resources

You can find many of the slightly-less-obscure ones on http://gen.lib.rus.ec/ If there are any you can't find I'll be happy to give you a link if I have it

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/28/15 9:01 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
Hi ;

I feel a strong need to say loud and clear : stay away from Datura. First warning, i tell you as quite savy on a wide range of "drugs".

furthermore, this is not an entheogene, nor entactogene, nor anything like it.  it is a officialy labeled Delirogen.  The problem is it is VERY VERY VERY DIFFICULT to dose any datura and solanacea family likes (there are many, with same danger.) , you could either feel nothing, or die, and inbetween the two, the correct dosage range is really tiny; think about it, 3 seeds (and they are small) and you're already near death, and in horrible situation, but if you want to know what is MADNESS before dying ..  same goes with the flower leaves, and if i recall well the roots too.

BE WARNED AGAIN, unless you want to litteraly fuck your life up for good. Sorry for the bad words, but it isn't even close enough as bad as the consequences of Datura.
 
I don't know if this forum is going to escalate in Topics about each and every mololecule on earth and dharma practice.

Again don't take Datura as your average substance ... Dmt and all familly molecules are trendy nowadays, but Datura is not to be considered as lightly , you will suffer extremely hard consequence while intoxicated and after .. if you don't die inbetween that is .

(and Dmt is not to be taken lightly either, we are not talking extasy or cocaïne) 
Also, if you come from a ayahuasca or any other curandero / shamanic  background, you should already know Datura is the last plant you want to play with. 

Here is the Erowid entry for Datura :
https://www.erowid.org/plants/datura/datura.shtml

Please read it indepth before attempting (i you dare do that you fool, last warning)  anything. Stay safe

Want to read real Tropane alcaloïds experiences ? pick your nightmare level here emoticon -> https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Datura.shtml

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/28/15 9:17 PM as a reply to SeTyR ZeN.
Some extract from the first datura experience in the list i posted few minute ago :

"From Steve’s point of view, in a nutshell, I had started acting weird when I had gotten the water from the kitchen. He said that he was trying to talk to me but I would just have this blank stare like I couldn’t see him, and then ran outside into my shed in the backyard and started talking to myself, and after an hour or so I ran out of the shed with this scared shitless look on my face and fell down, and crawled back into the house, into the bathroom and he said I was trying to drink out of the toilet, he pulled me up and carried me into the kitchen and put down on the floor and got some ice for me. He said I was talking in my sleep and saying random words in no logical order whatsoever but I was saying them fluently like I knew what I was talking about. Before my mom came home, he carried me upstairs and put me to bed, and stayed up to watch me, and he said I was talking out loud and moving around like I was having nightmares, and around midnight I sprang out of bed and ran into the bathroom and got in the shower for an hour and then went back into my room and put a shirt on backwards and some boxers but no pants and ran downstairs and stood in the kitchen for 10 minutes, just standing there. He said then I freaked out and ran upstairs into my room and he said he had to push me onto my bed and hold me down until I stopped moving, and eventually fell asleep, then he did. He woke up around 10 that day and I slept till 5.

To sum it up in one word...insanity. That’s what if feels like if you start to snap out of it and realize what’s happening, but then you just go back into this state of total confusion and its enough to drive anyone crazy. Overall I am glad I experienced this, just to know what its like, but this is not for everyone, and I’m not saying the experience was at all pleasant, so I have no motivation to do it again anytime soon, maybe someday years from now just for some crazy fun. But this Datura seems to be something not of this world. The hallucinations were accompanied by delirium and confusion which made them seem real and like I wasn’t really tripping. This stuff truly is THE DEVIL’S WEED."

Extract from https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=16996 ..

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 12:08 PM as a reply to SeTyR ZeN.
Ya to follow up on SeTyR ZeN's post, reading peoples stories on erowid about datura use, it does sound absolutely crazy, like psychosis.  One guy wrote, "This is clearly a NEGATIVE PLANE OF EXISTENCE. I don't know if I believe in Hell, but if there is one, this is realm surely has some kind of correlation."  If anyone is thinking about Datura as some sort of Buddhist wonder drug it would probably be good to read these accounts.

It has been said before, but the Buddhist path is not one that needs drugs to acomplish.  Mysterious Tibetan pills aside, the real magic of Buddhism lies in the fact that the path can genuinely trasform one's perception via attainment.  However, until we give up our hopeful dreams of an easily attainable perfect future state and get down to the tough reality of determined practice we are unlikely to experience genuine insight and transformation.

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 3:51 PM as a reply to T DC.
Thanks for the warnings ya'll. I had hoped this would suffice:
Warning: datura is an extremely powerful and dangerous hallucinogen. In addition to the dangers inherent in severe hallucinosis, the plant is quite toxic. There have been reports of coma and death resulting from this toxicity.

And, as always, Daniel's admonition applies in this section of the DhO. (psst.. I think he forgot to sticky it. Mods?)

Honestly, I think the severe tone isn't helpful in these situations. The informed consent approach appeals to me more. So, here it is: If you're okay with experiencing hellish madness and possibly going psychotic, do your own research and make your own decision about trying datura.

I actually have a friend who tried datura. She told us it was horrible and delirious and to never fuckin do it. That was enough for me.

T DC,
I appreciate what you're saying; it is remarkable that meditation can cause transformation with sustained effort. But I must ask: Which Buddhist path? Attainments according to which/whose model?

Clearly in the Vajrayana they thought drugs were at least one possibility for part of their path. I'm assured in reading these Tantras that the authors were far from charlatans and that if they used drugs they probably knew what they were doing. Some of the Vajrayana lineages, afaik, were never a majority path. Just as I wouldn't recommend everyone to try some of the intensive visualizations, or the sexual yoga, or a dark retreat, etc I wouldn't recommend everyone to try using drugs on their path.

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 5:17 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
3) A number of anthropologists, ethnologists, and ethnobotanists have documented the use of entheogens within the living traditions of Vajrayana practiced in Nepal and to a lesser extent Tibet and Bhutan.
       
When these sources are taken together, their combined weight leaves little room for doubt that Vajrayana has had a well-documented tradition of making use of entheogenic plants (especially datura and cannabis) for magico-religious and psychospiritual purposes. While this use may never have been particularly widespread, it is certainly significant. 

interesting. Ive never heard of Datura before but it sounds hellish. I wonder if there it was used as some kind of spiritual tool using it to experience this kind of hell in this way? Sounds pretty intense. 

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 7:09 PM as a reply to b man.
You said : "Thanks for the warnings ya'll. I had hoped this would suffice:"

I have nothing against freedom of experimentation with one's own body and mind; But there is a big difference between thinking about it, trying in your private life knowing perfectly the possible consequences because you studied indepth the subject  .. and quite trivially posting the idea on a public forum, in which many , lets say it with no condecendence, might have a fragile psychological profile or are in a difficult moment in their lives; Just out of Boredom and with minimal research, some could end dead or in a psychic ward.   I can tell you even the most enlightened guy in here has high chances to be thrown out of his seat in the two first hour of a scopo/atropine trip. 

I already find it quite incredible Dmt has reached this level of trivialization and consumptions this past year,. and when i read some are now looking for yopo, or playing indigenes with "modern-style" kambo initiation .. i'm not letting this post pass without me having put enough warning messages in it emoticon

You must agree dear Droll  it is quite clear once a week at least, someone new posts his anger, frustrations, fears, asks for help, infos , talks dn etc etc..  i guess many others gravitate around without making themselves known ..

Posting this with only a basic and formal 2 sentence warning is akind to invitation/receipe for disaster, in this new world where acquiring and consuming powerfull substances is as easy as 3 clicks of a mouse ;   And in the case of Datura, it is even easier than that as you can find them quite everywhere on the planet, in the middle of cities, you don't have to look far away.

I bet at least one or two young "padawans" in here will be idiot enough to try it, now they know the existence of solanaceas and having quickly read some possible cool stuff to  be done with Datura, Cannabis and Vajrayana.
I specifically think this kind of post should be only moved  in a more restricted part of the forum;

Gordo , i totally agree, try any other paths first (and the vegetal/poisonous path is one.. i practiced it mindfully , and recently ended after 25+ years )
Yes it can be talked about, and that is what i think i am doing .. i just say what i think is best to say, warn and inform people when necessary; See how many knew about this ? nearly noboody .. thats why i take it as my own responsability to make some clean and informativ bad rap , emoticon

T DC, i also entirely agree, imao the right path must necesseraly be walked with no crutch whatsover, otherwise it must be a dead end 

(edits 3x for cosmetics/bad spelling/wrong words and some text missing after republishing)

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 8:14 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
T DC,
I appreciate what you're saying; it is remarkable that meditation can cause transformation with sustained effort. But I must ask: Which Buddhist path? Attainments according to which/whose model?

Clearly in the Vajrayana they thought drugs were at least one possibility for part of their path. I'm assured in reading these Tantras that the authors were far from charlatans and that if they used drugs they probably knew what they were doing. Some of the Vajrayana lineages, afaik, were never a majority path. Just as I wouldn't recommend everyone to try some of the intensive visualizations, or the sexual yoga, or a dark retreat, etc I wouldn't recommend everyone to try using drugs on their path.

Right, which Buddhist path, and which model..  On this site, there are so many different practices and supposed goals that a conversation about a specific method sometimes seems impossible.  This is somewhat ironic seeing as this site was born out MCTB which espoused that genuine progress could be attained via one very specific path.  However, Daniel himself has posited different axis of development and what with the AF folks and the traditional Pali literalists, we seem to have have lost sight of what clearly works, and begun pursuing many paths that might hopefully work.  Largely, it seems, people on this site cannot aggree on a specific purpose or framework for the Buddhist path.  While this is frusterating, I think a lack of solid purpose is a widespread issue in Buddhism that we do at least have some kind of dialouge about!

Which Buddhist paths, and which model?  You're going to have to take me at my word here, but I followed a path of progressive attainment through the three yanas, and reached final enlightenment.  Many people have different ideas of enlightenment, but I am refering to the total end of the false ego/ duality, and union with all that is.  This state of final enlightenment has been clearly and obviously reported in many varied religions, and I am suprised that people have not been willing to accept that the fully egoless state is full enlightenment.  Another benchmark on here is emotional balance, and I achieved this as well, after enlightenment, through Qi Gong.  So many claims!! haha

So which paths and model?  I followed MCTB through to 4th path, and found this to corelate to the Hinayana.  The teachings of the Mahayana provided the descriptions of the next set of attainments through which I progressed.  Finally, after completing the Mahayana, I followed the Vajrayana teachings of Mahamudra and Dzogchen through to the end.  Some might argue that my attainments were conditioned by the texts I read, but I disagree.  In fact I know someone who has progressed through these same benchmark attainments never having heard about them! 

Thus it is that I have an adgenda of sharing this map that I followed through to enlightenment, because I believe people could greatly benefit from it, as I did from MCTB and other teaching sources I read.  A clear map make progress much easier!  I started a thread on this a while ago, but it did not go so well..  I am however happy to discuss it.  This is a bit off topic, but perhaps if you or others want to discuss the issue of a coherant goal it could be moved to a separate thread.  Basically what I would argue is that the Buddhist path arose to combat the very specific issue of dualistic perception (aka. suffering), and that all true paths (paths that truly go somewhere) lead to one final goal.

Cheers,
Tim

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
5/29/15 8:57 PM as a reply to T DC.
Droll, sorry if i sound too hard, its not directed at you at all. In fact, i think a understand very well and like the approach idea, even fascinating ; Re-reading many mondane trip reports (on Datura) hints at many things about self, ego etc..  I was just afraid you wouldn't have emphasized enough the great very real dangers .  I guess now at least, there is a good warning intro ;)

T DC, i'd like to correct myself, i didn't want to say "dead-end" , but more "a momentary detour" on the real path.

RE: The Use of Entheogens in the Vajrayana
Answer
6/23/19 4:27 AM as a reply to Dada Kind.
A little late in following up - but I just found this thanks to a google search. I would love to get hold of these pdfs for further research for my podcast to save pulling them individually from academe. Please let me know if you can easily make them available? Thanks Steve
(podcast AT alchemicaltours DOT come)