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No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/23/15 6:15 PM
RE: No compassion Eva Nie 6/23/15 8:42 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 6:04 AM
RE: No compassion Not Tao 6/23/15 11:35 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 6:13 AM
RE: No compassion . Jake . 6/24/15 2:45 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 3:20 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 3:47 PM
RE: No compassion . Jake . 6/24/15 8:36 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 12:44 PM
RE: No compassion Eva Nie 6/25/15 1:34 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/25/15 6:51 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/28/15 9:27 AM
RE: No compassion Laurel Carrington 6/28/15 10:52 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/28/15 11:49 AM
RE: No compassion Laurel Carrington 6/28/15 1:07 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/28/15 1:18 PM
RE: No compassion b man 6/28/15 4:52 PM
RE: No compassion Eva Nie 6/28/15 11:59 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/28/15 12:21 PM
RE: No compassion Eva Nie 6/28/15 7:29 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/29/15 3:55 PM
RE: No compassion The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 6/29/15 11:23 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/30/15 7:56 AM
RE: No compassion Chris Marti 6/30/15 6:45 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 7/1/15 9:51 AM
RE: No compassion Chris Marti 7/1/15 9:59 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 7/1/15 11:49 AM
RE: No compassion Psi 7/1/15 12:17 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 7/1/15 12:22 PM
RE: No compassion Chris Marti 7/1/15 2:32 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 7/1/15 6:15 PM
RE: No compassion The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 7/1/15 12:13 AM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 7/1/15 9:54 AM
RE: No compassion svmonk 6/24/15 12:03 PM
RE: No compassion Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg 6/24/15 12:45 PM
No compassion
Answer
6/23/15 6:15 PM
After the last major shift a month or two ago (3:d path according some some diagnosis) there's been no experience of compassion at all. This seems a bit "odd" since pretty much all of the teachers talk about compassion arising spontaneously. This lack is both fundamentally emotional and intellectual.

I've listened to people complaining about their personal tragedies, or looked at pictures of starving children and whatnot and I feel absolutely zero compassion or even interest.

My "intellectual" perspective now is also a bit... cold, I would say. Basically I see it like this: Everyone and everything is just me, and there's not much interest or investment even in the local body/mind system. When I look at a person that is "suffering" I just see another idiot (I'm an idiot too) who is DECIDING to suffer and cling to a dream state in order to experience victimhood. In fact I don't even see it as suffering, since it's something that "person" is doing voluntarily to themselves and obviously enjoying. They're just stupid "characters" enjoying being angry, sad or upset or whatever.

The three characteristics are plainly evident in everything, but there is no sense of awe or much appreciation happening, on top of the lack of compassion. In fact, the bodhisattva vow I took in hindsight seems incredibly stupid. Liberate who? From what? Everything is "voluntary" and there is no real suffering anyway.


Is this a common experience or perspective to be in, and does it tend to change or mature over time?

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/23/15 8:42 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
I went through a period like that for a while but it passed.  I've also heard of similar.  Gopi Krishna wrote about having a long stretch when (and I forget the exact wording so forgive me please) there was something like that for a while, he did not get pleasure and enjoyment from friends or family and he was glad when that passed.  I think also there was some mention of something a tad similar from Kenneth Folk as follows: 
"I tell people when they are dwelling as the Witness, you have to let that down when you are dealing with people. Whenever you are talking with your loved ones, for example, you have to let the Witness down because they can see that you are aloof and dissociated from them. They can see that you have no stake in your own life, let alone theirs. This is toxic to interpersonal relationships. But once you transcend and include the witness with this next level, which I call the transcendent, this is the opening of the heart."

-Eva

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/23/15 11:35 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 6:04 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
I went through a period like that for a while but it passed.  I've also heard of similar.  Gopi Krishna wrote about having a long stretch when (and I forget the exact wording so forgive me please) there was something like that for a while, he did not get pleasure and enjoyment from friends or family and he was glad when that passed.  I think also there was some mention of something a tad similar from Kenneth Folk as follows: 
"I tell people when they are dwelling as the Witness, you have to let that down when you are dealing with people. Whenever you are talking with your loved ones, for example, you have to let the Witness down because they can see that you are aloof and dissociated from them. They can see that you have no stake in your own life, let alone theirs. This is toxic to interpersonal relationships. But once you transcend and include the witness with this next level, which I call the transcendent, this is the opening of the heart."

-Eva
I don't love anyone. Absolutly no-one. Actually I've realized that "I" (the go) never did, it (or I) was just trying to survive.

Hopefully the part about the witness being included or "transcended and integrated" will happen and something will shift, but I definetely feel like there is no stake in anything and this whole thing (meaning existence) is kind of stupid.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 6:13 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?

There's definetely a trace of contempt and an even slighter disgust at the whole thing. Then again, that is just happening as well, and is also seen as empty, containing no self, and transitory. But yes, there might be some clinging to this perspective happening. That will be investigated I'm sure.

Not experiencing any cronic pains, what is happening in meditation (which is pretty much 100% of the wakened state since I do nothing else) is physical/energetic releases. Awareness moves (or I move it) to different contractions or chakras and what seems like pent up energies are being released. The body is more limber and flexible than ever, but there is a continual discovery of these contracted energies that seem to be in endless supply (well, not really, there's definetely more space being made available).

The sub-vocal process is not completely silent, thoughts are still happening, but they are much fewer and the "volume" has been turned down to the absolte minimum. I can barely hear or sense the thoughts happening (which is great, there's a huge aversion to thoughts). But there's no real attachment to the story-line of "me" either.

There's definetely something being supressed, but I'm not sure what. There was a huge trauma associated to the feelings of love and compassion two years ago (wife had an awakening and decided to kill herself) and that may be the root issue, some connection between love/trauma or whatnot. Thank you for the tip, will see if I can localise what it is that is being supressed.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 12:03 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Hi Mattias,

You might want to try some Brahamvihara practice for a while. Most teachers typically only teach the first of the Brahamviharas, metta, or what I prefer to call friendless (most translators use loving-kindness, but I think that's a long word and difficult for people to connect with). The second of the Brahamaviharas is karuna, compassion.

My experience with the Brahamviharas is that it took me a while to connect with them, so I decided to dedicate a period of time to just practicing metta, about 6 to 9 months. I eventually connected with metta in a retreat near the end of that period. Now, it goes up and down, but if I do metta practice in a retreat, I can usually feel it.

              jak

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 12:44 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?


There was indeed a supression going on and it had to do with Love. There was a strong connection between Love and guilt/pain/fear/trauma and a corresponding energetic blockage (bigtime) in the heart chakra. It's been seen now and the energetic block has been working itself out (feels like ice water coursing through the chest). Still no love or compassion arising but this seems to be what was at the root of it. Thanks for the help. emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 12:45 PM as a reply to svmonk.
svmonk:
Hi Mattias,

You might want to try some Brahamvihara practice for a while. Most teachers typically only teach the first of the Brahamviharas, metta, or what I prefer to call friendless (most translators use loving-kindness, but I think that's a long word and difficult for people to connect with). The second of the Brahamaviharas is karuna, compassion.

My experience with the Brahamviharas is that it took me a while to connect with them, so I decided to dedicate a period of time to just practicing metta, about 6 to 9 months. I eventually connected with metta in a retreat near the end of that period. Now, it goes up and down, but if I do metta practice in a retreat, I can usually feel it.

              jak
Thank you for your suggestion, it seems however as the root problem (an energetic block and some subconscious cross-wiring) is about to solve itself.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 2:45 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?

There's definetely a trace of contempt and an even slighter disgust at the whole thing. Then again, that is just happening as well, and is also seen as empty, containing no self, and transitory. But yes, there might be some clinging to this perspective happening. That will be investigated I'm sure.

Not experiencing any cronic pains, what is happening in meditation (which is pretty much 100% of the wakened state since I do nothing else) is physical/energetic releases. Awareness moves (or I move it) to different contractions or chakras and what seems like pent up energies are being released. The body is more limber and flexible than ever, but there is a continual discovery of these contracted energies that seem to be in endless supply (well, not really, there's definetely more space being made available).

The sub-vocal process is not completely silent, thoughts are still happening, but they are much fewer and the "volume" has been turned down to the absolte minimum. I can barely hear or sense the thoughts happening (which is great, there's a huge aversion to thoughts). But there's no real attachment to the story-line of "me" either.

There's definetely something being supressed, but I'm not sure what. There was a huge trauma associated to the feelings of love and compassion two years ago (wife had an awakening and decided to kill herself) and that may be the root issue, some connection between love/trauma or whatnot. Thank you for the tip, will see if I can localise what it is that is being supressed.
I think NT's question/observation was extremely pertinant and your own response, especially the bolded part and the part about your wife (very sorry for your loss), seems very important clues. It sounds like your practice is really deep in one respect but also may be a profound spiritual bypassing going on, using concentration to avoid dealing with some painful feelings/thoughts.

it reminds me of warnings in the tibetan traditions to be sure to balance compassion with wisdom because they aren't actually authentic without each other. That is, genuine insight seems to open us to caring about others (rather than being indifferent to them) and on the flip side to truly care about others in a meaningful way there seems to need to be some insight into empty impermanence.

The contempt you feel for ignorant humans creating their own suffering is exactly what the tibetans are warning against because it appears to be coming from insight but is actually a dead end. If there is a deep energetic/emotional block in your system around the woundedness it could definitely be distorting your practice into one of spiritually bypassing the need to feel those feelings. In my own experience this kind of thing can be a very dangerous passage (hopefully for obvious reasons) and the fact that you've reached out shows that you care about this issue. I wish you the best in untangling these deeper energetic/emotional/belief knots that are obstructing your progress.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 3:20 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?

There's definetely a trace of contempt and an even slighter disgust at the whole thing. Then again, that is just happening as well, and is also seen as empty, containing no self, and transitory. But yes, there might be some clinging to this perspective happening. That will be investigated I'm sure.

Not experiencing any cronic pains, what is happening in meditation (which is pretty much 100% of the wakened state since I do nothing else) is physical/energetic releases. Awareness moves (or I move it) to different contractions or chakras and what seems like pent up energies are being released. The body is more limber and flexible than ever, but there is a continual discovery of these contracted energies that seem to be in endless supply (well, not really, there's definetely more space being made available).

The sub-vocal process is not completely silent, thoughts are still happening, but they are much fewer and the "volume" has been turned down to the absolte minimum. I can barely hear or sense the thoughts happening (which is great, there's a huge aversion to thoughts). But there's no real attachment to the story-line of "me" either.

There's definetely something being supressed, but I'm not sure what. There was a huge trauma associated to the feelings of love and compassion two years ago (wife had an awakening and decided to kill herself) and that may be the root issue, some connection between love/trauma or whatnot. Thank you for the tip, will see if I can localise what it is that is being supressed.
I think NT's question/observation was extremely pertinant and your own response, especially the bolded part and the part about your wife (very sorry for your loss), seems very important clues. It sounds like your practice is really deep in one respect but also may be a profound spiritual bypassing going on, using concentration to avoid dealing with some painful feelings/thoughts.

it reminds me of warnings in the tibetan traditions to be sure to balance compassion with wisdom because they aren't actually authentic without each other. That is, genuine insight seems to open us to caring about others (rather than being indifferent to them) and on the flip side to truly care about others in a meaningful way there seems to need to be some insight into empty impermanence.

The contempt you feel for ignorant humans creating their own suffering is exactly what the tibetans are warning against because it appears to be coming from insight but is actually a dead end. If there is a deep energetic/emotional block in your system around the woundedness it could definitely be distorting your practice into one of spiritually bypassing the need to feel those feelings. In my own experience this kind of thing can be a very dangerous passage (hopefully for obvious reasons) and the fact that you've reached out shows that you care about this issue. I wish you the best in untangling these deeper energetic/emotional/belief knots that are obstructing your progress.
Thanks for your reply, I will respond paragraph by paragraph (or pretend to be the one responding and in actuality let the response happen).

In the beginning I did a lot of concentration meditation but that dropped by itself and was confirmed later as a "good decision" since concentration meditation has a tendency to strengthen the ego mind and sense of a doer. Now my meditation is more of a mix of insight and energy practice. Awareness is simply moved to where the block or contraction is and stays there until it resolves itself. Thoughts appear and are usually dismissed as an avoidance strategy. There does seem to be some bypassing going on as well and that will be investigated tonight, thank you for bringing that up.

There has been different phases where care for others have been very intense, but that was recently seen as a way to postpone liberation by focusing on "helping others" and was discarded. The pendelum may have swung too much in that direction but if so, that is what is ment to happen. The assumption here is that compassion or love will arise spontaneously when whatever ignorance or energetic blocks that is preventing it disappears. I don't feel that there is any way to force love or compassion since that would only turn it into another thing for the ego to feel bad about or want to do. Though I have much respect for the Tibetan tradition it is not my path, I practised Zen for a while but currently I don't feel that I resonate fully with that teaching either. From my current perspective they are all temporary tools (all teachings, all traditions, all methods) that need to be dropped in order to keep moving. I don't feel like there is anything to gain from picking up another teaching or method. The tools needed are already in the tool kit and my inner guide tells me this is true and that I am basically on the final stretch now.

Your last paragraph was very insightful and I agree fully. There's no wish in my system to "defend" the position or perspective that all us humans are ignorant and causing our own suffering (which is ultimately an illusion), it's just the current perspective and means nothing in itself. Most likely just another phase. The key does seem to be to continue to remove the energy blocks and be aware so that no bypassing is happening (I can feel the ego cringing at that so it must be right). Fortunately I was able to give up the idea of defending "my" positions or the ego a while back, so even though I get stuck sometimes it is now at least not reinforced consciously.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 3:47 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Found it. It was a fear of violence tracing back to my childhood. Quite interesting, since it turns out this was also the starting impulse that made my intellect very fast (this ego/mind is insanely fast, which is a huge problem). Basically the system learned that in order to avoid getting beaten up it had to be able to think as fast as possible, so thinking quickly was associated with survival. This was an excellent find since it has created a "sheath" of subtle fear around/inside my whole body. It's being procesed now and I can't right now find any other sources of this fear or relevant bypassing. Thanks for the help.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/24/15 8:36 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Fascinating; glad you broke through. I think I approach the path in a similar way. Best wishes.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/25/15 1:34 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?


There was indeed a supression going on and it had to do with Love. There was a strong connection between Love and guilt/pain/fear/trauma and a corresponding energetic blockage (bigtime) in the heart chakra. It's been seen now and the energetic block has been working itself out (feels like ice water coursing through the chest). Still no love or compassion arising but this seems to be what was at the root of it. Thanks for the help. emoticon
Could be an issue with love of self as well. I don't mean in an egomaniacal way of course, but if you don't have love and respect for self, IMO, it's hard to have it for others.  You said 'stupid' not only for others but also in regards to self.  Forgive yourself for mistakes and for not being perfect and it might be easier to forgive others.  Sometimes in childhood we are taught that only perfection on the first try is acceptable, if that gets internalized, which it often does, then it sets up a situation where you will rarely be good enough even to please your own self, because such perfection is just not human.  Look on yourself with contempt and often you will look on others in the same way.  Anyway, it's all a process with many layers to go through, things don't tend to get fixed in just a few minutes, you just have to keep chiseling away at them!  ;-P 
-Eva

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/25/15 6:51 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Not Tao:
You aren't just describing a lack of compassion, you're describing a kind of contempt and disgust - possibly for "humanity" or what you see as a human perspective.  Coldness has always been a sign of deep suppression for me, a numbing of a problem rather than solving it.  Are you experiencing any cronic pains or cramps, like in your chest, throat, stomach, or head?


There was indeed a supression going on and it had to do with Love. There was a strong connection between Love and guilt/pain/fear/trauma and a corresponding energetic blockage (bigtime) in the heart chakra. It's been seen now and the energetic block has been working itself out (feels like ice water coursing through the chest). Still no love or compassion arising but this seems to be what was at the root of it. Thanks for the help. emoticon
Could be an issue with love of self as well. I don't mean in an egomaniacal way of course, but if you don't have love and respect for self, IMO, it's hard to have it for others.  You said 'stupid' not only for others but also in regards to self.  Forgive yourself for mistakes and for not being perfect and it might be easier to forgive others.  Sometimes in childhood we are taught that only perfection on the first try is acceptable, if that gets internalized, which it often does, then it sets up a situation where you will rarely be good enough even to please your own self, because such perfection is just not human.  Look on yourself with contempt and often you will look on others in the same way.  Anyway, it's all a process with many layers to go through, things don't tend to get fixed in just a few minutes, you just have to keep chiseling away at them!  ;-P 
-Eva

I don't think the option of "false-self love" is a real option, for two reasons.

1. I can not find any self. There is no localised sense of self, neither is there anything coherent enough to be interpreted as a separate entity anymore. Thoughts come and go, as do emotions and sensations, who are both really just energies in the experiencing field. There's no "personality" left and there's no wish for one to be invented. So essentially, there's nothing to love.

2. I can not make love happen. Of course I could force myself to say "I love you" but that would just be another ego story and have nothing to do with actual or true love. In fact I think that what parades as love most of the time is a form of hate and resentment dressed up to look nice. Ego's and personaities are incapable of love, only the heart and God can love. In fact when it comes from ego, I personally prefer hate (which is a pure and honest energy) to the fake love that is on offer. ;)

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 9:27 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Two days ago I was reading the news about the US legalizing gay marriage, and a story about two 80+ year old gentlemen who were finally able to marry after being together for over 50 years. That made me cry, so I guess compassion is coming back emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 10:52 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Two days ago I was reading the news about the US legalizing gay marriage, and a story about two 80+ year old gentlemen who were finally able to marry after being together for over 50 years. That made me cry, so I guess compassion is coming back emoticon

Beautiful. Before I say anything else: You and I had an unfruitful interaction or two on another thread about a month or so back. I ask your forgiveness for my blurting out unhelpful comments. 

I, too, have been experiencing something like a dry spell (Christian contemplative so call it "aridity"), where I feel stranded and alone and out of touch with all of life. Stuff happens, within and outside of "me," but it feels meaningless. Along with that is a high level of sensitization, so that "stuff" feels overwhelming. Strange combination. When I sit, I get a lot of kriyas, which I hope are clearing blockages. But most of the time I feel suspended between dull depression and subtle anxiety, along with pain in the body (I have a chronic pain condition). 

Before this, I enjoyed a period of quiet bliss. It went on for about 3 weeks. The misery has been about 10 days. It seems to be lifting since last evening. But I am thinking, having read this thread, that the greatest risk for me is getting tangled in trying to figure things out. The more misery, the more clutching at straws to make sense of myself. The inability to let go creates a self-reinforcing loop.

One thing about personality: Jed McKenna, in describing his awakening, said that initially he felt a bit at a loss to know what to do once his habit of identifying with a personality was gone. Then, he said (I'm paraphrasing here), I looked around, and saw my old personality, like clothing, ready for me to put back on. After that he just wore his personality, rather than being it. It seemed natural and that's what he did.

A good part of what he describes is waiting to see what happens next. If you or I have a lifelong habit of planning and/or making things happen, it feels strange. I in particular worry about dissolving into chaos, never getting out of bed in the morning. I used to see myself as a donkey that I had to beat with a stick to keep moving. Strange image, because I love donkeys, and why would I want to abuse one?  That's what I meant when I said a month or so ago that you need to love yourself. I see my ego-self as a gentle, suffering animal that needs tenderness and acceptance. This is my compassion for myself. It is the donkey that carries me along, or the clothes that I wear as I go about daily life.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 11:49 AM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Two days ago I was reading the news about the US legalizing gay marriage, and a story about two 80+ year old gentlemen who were finally able to marry after being together for over 50 years. That made me cry, so I guess compassion is coming back emoticon

Beautiful. Before I say anything else: You and I had an unfruitful interaction or two on another thread about a month or so back. I ask your forgiveness for my blurting out unhelpful comments.

No worries at all, there’s no feelings of resentment of any kind going on here (nothing is personal).

Laurel Carrington:

I, too, have been experiencing something like a dry spell (Christian contemplative so call it "aridity"), where I feel stranded and alone and out of touch with all of life. Stuff happens, within and outside of "me," but it feels meaningless. Along with that is a high level of sensitization, so that "stuff" feels overwhelming. Strange combination. When I sit, I get a lot of kriyas, which I hope are clearing blockages. But most of the time I feel suspended between dull depression and subtle anxiety, along with pain in the body (I have a chronic pain condition).

I think we may have the wrong idea about ”kriyas” in the buddhist community. For me the kriyas are among the most helpful and welcome manifestations and I have them all the time. My interpretation of them is that it is pretty much the body waking up and shedding unwanted energies, twitching old traumas out of the body etc. In the end, when you reach the big E, it’s kind of like the body is completely run by ”kriyas”. At least that is the perception here, now the body does most of the moving, talking and interacting without the mind interfering. Honestly this message is writing itself and there is not really any mind activity going on.

Laurel Carrington:

Before this, I enjoyed a period of quiet bliss. It went on for about 3 weeks. The misery has been about 10 days. It seems to be lifting since last evening. But I am thinking, having read this thread, that the greatest risk for me is getting tangled in trying to figure things out. The more misery, the more clutching at straws to make sense of myself. The inability to let go creates a self-reinforcing loop.

Yeah the whole searching for a certain state is just a more advanced form of suffering. Nice that you’ve identified that ”trying to figure it out” is the source of the problem, not the solution.
Laurel Carrington:

One thing about personality: Jed McKenna, in describing his awakening, said that initially he felt a bit at a loss to know what to do once his habit of identifying with a personality was gone. Then, he said (I'm paraphrasing here), I looked around, and saw my old personality, like clothing, ready for me to put back on. After that he just wore his personality, rather than being it. It seemed natural and that's what he did.

I don’t know. To me there is no personality. There are behavioral patterns that create the impression of one, but really, everything is just happening by itself, there’s no need for a doer, ego or personality.

Laurel Carrington:

A good part of what he describes is waiting to see what happens next. If you or I have a lifelong habit of planning and/or making things happen, it feels strange. I in particular worry about dissolving into chaos, never getting out of bed in the morning. I used to see myself as a donkey that I had to beat with a stick to keep moving. Strange image, because I love donkeys, and why would I want to abuse one? That's what I meant when I said a month or so ago that you need to love yourself. I see my ego-self as a gentle, suffering animal that needs tenderness and acceptance. This is my compassion for myself. It is the donkey that carries me along, or the clothes that I wear as I go about daily life.

I would really recommend you focus on the no-self aspect of the Three Characteristics. Once the lie of the ”I” is thoroughly seen through, everything else relaxes and becomes incrementally more and more easy. There will still be shedding of belief systems, energy adjustments etc, but if you can just get to the ”no-self” then you’re in the stream and taken care of by the universe. For the quickest way to do this I would invite you to check out this free e-book and consider getting a free guide at their forum if needed: http://liberationunleashed.com/wp-content/uploads/Gateless_Gatecrashers.pdf

Good luck and have fun, and thanks for the long post emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 11:59 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Eva M Nie:

Could be an issue with love of self as well. I don't mean in an egomaniacal way of course, but if you don't have love and respect for self, IMO, it's hard to have it for others.  You said 'stupid' not only for others but also in regards to self.  Forgive yourself for mistakes and for not being perfect and it might be easier to forgive others.  Sometimes in childhood we are taught that only perfection on the first try is acceptable, if that gets internalized, which it often does, then it sets up a situation where you will rarely be good enough even to please your own self, because such perfection is just not human.  Look on yourself with contempt and often you will look on others in the same way.  Anyway, it's all a process with many layers to go through, things don't tend to get fixed in just a few minutes, you just have to keep chiseling away at them!  ;-P 
-Eva

I don't think the option of "false-self love" is a real option, for two reasons.

1. I can not find any self. There is no localised sense of self, neither is there anything coherent enough to be interpreted as a separate entity anymore. Thoughts come and go, as do emotions and sensations, who are both really just energies in the experiencing field. There's no "personality" left and there's no wish for one to be invented. So essentially, there's nothing to love.

2. I can not make love happen. Of course I could force myself to say "I love you" but that would just be another ego story and have nothing to do with actual or true love. In fact I think that what parades as love most of the time is a form of hate and resentment dressed up to look nice. Ego's and personaities are incapable of love, only the heart and God can love. In fact when it comes from ego, I personally prefer hate (which is a pure and honest energy) to the fake love that is on offer. ;)
Ok, let me say it more Buddhist style this time, I suggest you practice Metta which involves first 'benevolence' towards self and then towards others, from wiki: The cultivation of benevolence (mettā bhāvanā) is a popular form of meditation in Buddhism. In the Theravadin Buddhist tradition, this practice begins with the meditator cultivating benevolence towards themselves,[7] then one's loved ones, friends, teachers, strangers, enemies, and finally towards all sentient beings." 

As for point 1, Daniel has said that your issues don't go away with 4th path, you will still want to work on issues you still have.  Saying your issues don't exist because 'you' don't exist does not seem to solve the issues according to others.  4th path just gives you a better perspective on your issues. 

As for point 2, other things may sometimes be disguised as love, but that does not mean actual love/benevolence (or whatever term you like better, I really don't want to get wrapped up in a semantics argument when I think you can probably get the gist of what I am saying) can't be practiced or is not good.  One way I like to do it is think of someone that is especially irritating (I guess I like a challenge), then I think briefly about what it is that irritates me about this person (that is the easy part but not meant to be wallowed in, just identified), then I think of what kind of influences may have been in their past that contributed to that behavior, childhood etc,  how unhappy they may be not knowing how to get out of the trap with society not giving much useful advice, etc.  I also think about what things inside me get triggered by that person and what little bits of myself they are influencing and what that says about me.  At the end, I typically have a better genuine attitude about that person and a better understanding of myself.  Other people probably have other methods.  Practicing does mean you will do something and then become Mother Theresa 5 minutes later after all.  ;-P
-Eva

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 12:21 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Eva M Nie:

Could be an issue with love of self as well. I don't mean in an egomaniacal way of course, but if you don't have love and respect for self, IMO, it's hard to have it for others.  You said 'stupid' not only for others but also in regards to self.  Forgive yourself for mistakes and for not being perfect and it might be easier to forgive others.  Sometimes in childhood we are taught that only perfection on the first try is acceptable, if that gets internalized, which it often does, then it sets up a situation where you will rarely be good enough even to please your own self, because such perfection is just not human.  Look on yourself with contempt and often you will look on others in the same way.  Anyway, it's all a process with many layers to go through, things don't tend to get fixed in just a few minutes, you just have to keep chiseling away at them!  ;-P 
-Eva

I don't think the option of "false-self love" is a real option, for two reasons.

1. I can not find any self. There is no localised sense of self, neither is there anything coherent enough to be interpreted as a separate entity anymore. Thoughts come and go, as do emotions and sensations, who are both really just energies in the experiencing field. There's no "personality" left and there's no wish for one to be invented. So essentially, there's nothing to love.

2. I can not make love happen. Of course I could force myself to say "I love you" but that would just be another ego story and have nothing to do with actual or true love. In fact I think that what parades as love most of the time is a form of hate and resentment dressed up to look nice. Ego's and personaities are incapable of love, only the heart and God can love. In fact when it comes from ego, I personally prefer hate (which is a pure and honest energy) to the fake love that is on offer. ;)
Ok, let me say it more Buddhist style this time, I suggest you practice Metta which involves first 'benevolence' towards self and then towards others, from wiki: The cultivation of benevolence (mettā bhāvanā) is a popular form of meditation in Buddhism. In the Theravadin Buddhist tradition, this practice begins with the meditator cultivating benevolence towards themselves,[7] then one's loved ones, friends, teachers, strangers, enemies, and finally towards all sentient beings." 

As for point 1, Daniel has said that your issues don't go away with 4th path, you will still want to work on issues you still have.  Saying your issues don't exist because 'you' don't exist does not seem to solve the issues according to others.  4th path just gives you a better perspective on your issues. 

As for point 2, other things may sometimes be disguised as love, but that does not mean actual love/benevolence (or whatever term you like better, I really don't want to get wrapped up in a semantics argument when I think you can probably get the gist of what I am saying) can't be practiced or is not good.  One way I like to do it is think of someone that is especially irritating (I guess I like a challenge), then I think briefly about what it is that irritates me about this person (that is the easy part but not meant to be wallowed in, just identified), then I think of what kind of influences may have been in their past that contributed to that behavior, childhood etc,  how unhappy they may be not knowing how to get out of the trap with society not giving much useful advice, etc.  I also think about what things inside me get triggered by that person and what little bits of myself they are influencing and what that says about me.  At the end, I typically have a better genuine attitude about that person and a better understanding of myself.  Other people probably have other methods.  Practicing does mean you will do something and then become Mother Theresa 5 minutes later after all.  ;-P
-Eva

I think all attempts to "practise" only enforce the idea that there is someone doing the practising. It either happens or it does not happen. Once no-self is completely realized it is a different ballgame. It simply happens or not, this system can't sustain the illusion that there is a "me" doing it and there's a strong resentment arising from any attempt to interfer with the natural flow (which is of course impossible, and just another illusion). In the end I find your post helpful mainly because it brings up resistance in this system.

I find that Buddhist dogma is helpful to an extent, but in the end needs to be released. Which also happens by itself. The realization of no-self is the key.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 1:07 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Thank you! (or thank no one). I have had the no self opening, experience, whatever--it has happened, but not on a sustained basis. I'll check out the direct pointing website. I've looked at it before, but the time wasn't right. 

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 1:18 PM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
Thank you! (or thank no one). I have had the no self opening, experience, whatever--it has happened, but not on a sustained basis. I'll check out the direct pointing website. I've looked at it before, but the time wasn't right. 
Yeah there's an experience (or several) to be had of no-self, but there's also the fundamental undoing of this particular notion or illusion. This seems to be the time for "you", good luck. emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 4:52 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
Two days ago I was reading the news about the US legalizing gay marriage, and a story about two 80+ year old gentlemen who were finally able to marry after being together for over 50 years. That made me cry, so I guess compassion is coming back emoticon


thats awesome to hear, for them and for you man - nice one emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/28/15 7:29 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:


I think all attempts to "practise" only enforce the idea that there is someone doing the practising. It either happens or it does not happen. Once no-self is completely realized it is a different ballgame. It simply happens or not, this system can't sustain the illusion that there is a "me" doing it and there's a strong resentment arising from any attempt to interfer with the natural flow (which is of course impossible, and just another illusion). In the end I find your post helpful mainly because it brings up resistance in this system.

I find that Buddhist dogma is helpful to an extent, but in the end needs to be released. Which also happens by itself. The realization of no-self is the key.
What you are 'practicing' is viewing things from a different perspective other than the one you are usually using, does that count as Buddhist dogma?  What comes of that practice depends on the person.   But if you argue that 'you' don't exist so there is no sense in 'you' trying to learn anything,  seems like it could be a great excuse for not doing things you don't want to do.  Next time your wife asks you to take out the trash, just tell her that you don't actually exist and either it will happen or it won't happen but that she shouldn't interfere with your flow.  It won't matter if she smacks you with a frying pan because you will fully realize both the pan and the pain are just illusions too.  Of course by your argument, her smacking you would be a natural part of the flow as well, to think otherwise is illusion, so it would not be logical for you to feel resentment if you were truly with the flow and seeing through all illusion, which means you should be fully agreeable with getting smacked, at least if the flow, the pan or you existed that is.  But of course they don't and neither does this message or Buddhist dogma exist.  That means nothing I said or you said could be Buddhist dogma because Buddhist dogma is also illusion and is all part of the flow and potential cause for resentment that also don't exist.

Glad we got that all sorted out.  ;-P
-Eva 

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/29/15 3:55 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:


I think all attempts to "practise" only enforce the idea that there is someone doing the practising. It either happens or it does not happen. Once no-self is completely realized it is a different ballgame. It simply happens or not, this system can't sustain the illusion that there is a "me" doing it and there's a strong resentment arising from any attempt to interfer with the natural flow (which is of course impossible, and just another illusion). In the end I find your post helpful mainly because it brings up resistance in this system.

I find that Buddhist dogma is helpful to an extent, but in the end needs to be released. Which also happens by itself. The realization of no-self is the key.
What you are 'practicing' is viewing things from a different perspective other than the one you are usually using, does that count as Buddhist dogma?  What comes of that practice depends on the person.   But if you argue that 'you' don't exist so there is no sense in 'you' trying to learn anything,  seems like it could be a great excuse for not doing things you don't want to do.  Next time your wife asks you to take out the trash, just tell her that you don't actually exist and either it will happen or it won't happen but that she shouldn't interfere with your flow.  It won't matter if she smacks you with a frying pan because you will fully realize both the pan and the pain are just illusions too.  Of course by your argument, her smacking you would be a natural part of the flow as well, to think otherwise is illusion, so it would not be logical for you to feel resentment if you were truly with the flow and seeing through all illusion, which means you should be fully agreeable with getting smacked, at least if the flow, the pan or you existed that is.  But of course they don't and neither does this message or Buddhist dogma exist.  That means nothing I said or you said could be Buddhist dogma because Buddhist dogma is also illusion and is all part of the flow and potential cause for resentment that also don't exist.

Glad we got that all sorted out.  ;-P
-Eva 

That's an intellectual interpretation and a misunderstanding of reality. There is no "me". That does not mean things do not happen, or that the body doesn't move, talk, eat, shit, fuck or whatever. It just means there is no "me" doing it, it happens by itself. This is actually always true, and it is just the matter of different body/mind systems in their own time releasing the confusion surrounding the "doer". This is in essence what all liberated beings arrive at, but the apparent journey looks different from different storylines. It can't really be explained to anyone who is still in the Maya, which is why some (like Ramana Maharshi) says that silence is the highest teaching.

You are still in a place where you think there is a you doing things, and while that is the case, it is very hard for the mind to grasp how this works. Nothing wrong with that, or anything else, or this conversation. It's not as if the "you" goes away, it's more like a recognition that there never was a you. There was just physical and mental resistance to what is arising, and a persisten I-thought.

Good luck and have fun.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/29/15 11:23 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
If information is inputted into this thread, even if there is no 'you' that information will causally effect you in either insignificant, moderate, or major ways. Thus, conversations as bandwidths of informational collision are still worthwhile, as such informational collisions may result in a process that triggers a metamorphosis of practice or reorientation of lifestyles. There may be no doer, just the universe being the universe, but in the end you being here may provide the proper informational input needed to unfold your awakening to proper degrees so that you may:

1) See things holding your awakening back that you may not currently see.
2) Fix energeric phenomena that make things a pain in the ass
3) Be directed to the proper location in by which  you may receive proper sexual favors for conquering the legendary conundrums of mysticism, that is, how to start a cult and have a harem.

But seriously, on the one hand I don't think you want to have 0 empathy, but on the other hand with your persona you've got something good going in that the persona isn't that happy clappy full of shit pretentious as all fucking shit God Damn it's insultingly nice in just the wrong way. What I mean to say is, if you're not a saint, who gives a shit? Be the anti-hero of the awakening world. Compassion, great, but do you need 20 dump trucks full of it? Your actions as being a 'good person' count far more imo, and I use the term good person loosely. That's something I get the sense you already know, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. If I were in such a situation I'd do activities that are heartfelt to get things moving, like listening to the most heartfelt music possible, other potential triggers, etc. Plus heart meditations have been suggested, maybe you need one that is effortlessly playful in the sense there is no effort but there is a natural inclination to do, and your intuitive taste rejects the bramaviharas for something more along your heart chakras taste buds

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/30/15 7:56 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ:
If information is inputted into this thread, even if there is no 'you' that information will causally effect you in either insignificant, moderate, or major ways. Thus, conversations as bandwidths of informational collision are still worthwhile, as such informational collisions may result in a process that triggers a metamorphosis of practice or reorientation of lifestyles. There may be no doer, just the universe being the universe, but in the end you being here may provide the proper informational input needed to unfold your awakening to proper degrees so that you may:

No doubt the different body/mind systems play a very important role to each others in the game of ”waking up”, which is really not about ”you” waking up but about awakening awakening to itself. There never was a you to wake up anyway, that is the post-Maya perspective. From within the Maya there is a ”you” trying to wake up, but in essence that is a lie, because all the thoughts, ideas, fears, contractions and defense mechanisms are really about NOT waking up, because the waking up is the end of the dream of a ”you”. Which is why (once again, within the Maya where there is apparent causality) not many people wake up. From outside the Maya everything is happening as it should and is quite hilarious.

The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ:

1) See things holding your awakening back that you may not currently see.
2) Fix energeric phenomena that make things a pain in the ass
3) Be directed to the proper location in by which you may receive proper sexual favors for conquering the legendary conundrums of mysticism, that is, how to start a cult and have a harem.

All three points are true, though of course #3 is far more important than the others. Feel free to direct any potential female ”seekers” between the age 18-40 my way. Yoga experience preferable, but preferably not too bright (or they might catch on).
The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ:

But seriously, on the one hand I don't think you want to have 0 empathy, but on the other hand with your persona you've got something good going in that the persona isn't that happy clappy full of shit pretentious as all fucking shit God Damn it's insultingly nice in just the wrong way. What I mean to say is, if you're not a saint, who gives a shit? Be the anti-hero of the awakening world. Compassion, great, but do you need 20 dump trucks full of it? Your actions as being a 'good person' count far more imo, and I use the term good person loosely. That's something I get the sense you already know, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. If I were in such a situation I'd do activities that are heartfelt to get things moving, like listening to the most heartfelt music possible, other potential triggers, etc. Plus heart meditations have been suggested, maybe you need one that is effortlessly playful in the sense there is no effort but there is a natural inclination to do, and your intuitive taste rejects the bramaviharas for something more along your heart chakras taste buds

These fucking hippies that are posing as teachers are NOT awake. At least most of them aren’t. They’re just faking it, and basically the ego-persona has figured out how to ”act enlightened” in order to survive. Anybody who isn’t laughing hysterically at the whole thing is not awake. Sure, some characters (like Adyashanti) may be more pleasant than others, but if they take anything seriously they are certainly not awake. And even the awake teachers totally suck at awakening others, for some reason. Look at Tolle with a following of millions, how many have actually woken up? Most of them are just parroting some silly meme about being in the Now and feeling somewhat better about themselves. And now they are protecting their newfound guru and clinging to some new belief system. Tsk tsk tsk… silly silly humanoids. This body/mind system has woken up 4 others in less than a week, how hard can it be?

Now there will be some masturbation happening by itself, thanks for the reply.

RE: No compassion
Answer
6/30/15 6:45 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
... but if they take anything seriously they are certainly not awake.


This is a bit too exteme and really not accurate. While awakening induces, quite literally, the feeling that one has been the victim of a cosmic joke (we all have, btw) and it certainly makes for a great laugh, over and over and over, this doesn't mean that nothing can be taken seriously. Human beings, awakened and unawakened, feel pain. It's valuable to have compassion for others. Pain is not a joke for those who have it, and it's not a joke to those who are awake to feel empathy and compassion for those who suffer.

I know what you meant, Mattias, and I hate being a killjoy, but you are overstating the case.

Peace

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 12:13 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
""Feel free to direct any potential female ”seekers” between the age 18-40 my way. Yoga experience preferable, but preferably not too bright (or they might catch on)"

Ah, if it were only that simple! For you see, here is how it's going to happen (YB = Yoga Babe, R = Ryan) 

YB: "Wow Ryan you're so handsome, nice, and intelligent and funny!"
R: "I know. Say, you should meet this other guy way cooler than me, he's super enlightened, and a badass who slays ignorance."
YB:  "Oh wow, you're pretty cool Ryan but maybe I should meet this handsome hunk, who is he?"
R: "No one."
YB: "What do you mean no one, I mean, what's his name?"
R: "There is no one, thus no one can have a name if they never existed in the first place."
YB: "Uhh, yeah, so...where can I meet this guy?"
R: "You seek someone who doesn't exist. To seek that which never existed is foolish ignorance!"
YB: "But I'm just talking about meeting him, I don't mean it in that context...You're kinda getting weird Ryan."
R: "LISTEN! YOU CANT MEET SOMEONE WHO NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!"
YB: "Ryan you need to calm down.
R: "I DONT EXIST! THERE IS NO RYAN, CANT YOU LEARN TO SEE WHATS RIGHT IN YOUR FACE!"
YB: "I'm so turned off right now..."
R: "THAT IS AN ILLUSION! THERES NO SELF TO BE TURNED OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE!"
YB: "I certainly won't exist in your life! I'm leaving." *She leaves*
~~END~~

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 9:51 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
... but if they take anything seriously they are certainly not awake.


This is a bit too exteme and really not accurate. While awakening induces, quite literally, the feeling that one has been the victim of a cosmic joke (we all have, btw) and it certainly makes for a great laugh, over and over and over, this doesn't mean that nothing can be taken seriously. Human beings, awakened and unawakened, feel pain. It's valuable to have compassion for others. Pain is not a joke for those who have it, and it's not a joke to those who are awake to feel empathy and compassion for those who suffer.

I know what you meant, Mattias, and I hate being a killjoy, but you are overstating the case.

Peace
Mjeh. Not sure how to formulate this but... from the outside perspective, everything is perfect as it is. It's just God or The Universe experiencing itself, no victims or perpetrators. Just a fantastic joke happening to itself.

From the inside perspective, there are bodies that are in pain, but there are no real "sufferers" since there is no "you" or "me". And it all happens by itself, with no doer, so nobody to blame. Seriousness seems to be a bit of a mental disease. Pain is real, suffering... not so much.

I suppose there is nothing "wrong" with some characters playing out as "serious" but it would seem strange for me if there were actual feelings or attachments to "seriousness" in awake people. What's to be serious about, and who to own that seriousness?

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 9:54 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ:
""Feel free to direct any potential female ”seekers” between the age 18-40 my way. Yoga experience preferable, but preferably not too bright (or they might catch on)"

Ah, if it were only that simple! For you see, here is how it's going to happen (YB = Yoga Babe, R = Ryan) 

YB: "Wow Ryan you're so handsome, nice, and intelligent and funny!"
R: "I know. Say, you should meet this other guy way cooler than me, he's super enlightened, and a badass who slays ignorance."
YB:  "Oh wow, you're pretty cool Ryan but maybe I should meet this handsome hunk, who is he?"
R: "No one."
YB: "What do you mean no one, I mean, what's his name?"
R: "There is no one, thus no one can have a name if they never existed in the first place."
YB: "Uhh, yeah, so...where can I meet this guy?"
R: "You seek someone who doesn't exist. To seek that which never existed is foolish ignorance!"
YB: "But I'm just talking about meeting him, I don't mean it in that context...You're kinda getting weird Ryan."
R: "LISTEN! YOU CANT MEET SOMEONE WHO NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!"
YB: "Ryan you need to calm down.
R: "I DONT EXIST! THERE IS NO RYAN, CANT YOU LEARN TO SEE WHATS RIGHT IN YOUR FACE!"
YB: "I'm so turned off right now..."
R: "THAT IS AN ILLUSION! THERES NO SELF TO BE TURNED OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE!"
YB: "I certainly won't exist in your life! I'm leaving." *She leaves*
~~END~~

Shit. I see you've spotted a flaw in the plan... Ah... so THIS is where the spiritual teachings of "It's all love, baby" stems from. The "no-self" product is obviously a harder sell and won't attract as many babes, but if you walk around with a handful of healing crystals and talk about love all the time... Ok, I see what they're doing here. Anyway, Universe already sent a Yoga babe my way so no worries. Of course one or two more wouldn't hurt... (God, you're reading this, right?).

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 9:59 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mjeh. Not sure how to formulate this but... from the outside perspective, everything is perfect as it is. It's just God or The Universe experiencing itself, no victims or perpetrators. Just a fantastic joke happening to itself.


You'll get over it   emoticon

"You" still have the capacity to feel pain. It's not about "you" per se because nothing is. It's about a body/mind system reacting to physical damage. It still hurts.

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 11:49 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Mjeh. Not sure how to formulate this but... from the outside perspective, everything is perfect as it is. It's just God or The Universe experiencing itself, no victims or perpetrators. Just a fantastic joke happening to itself.


You'll get over it   emoticon

"You" still have the capacity to feel pain. It's not about "you" per se because nothing is. It's about a body/mind system reacting to physical damage. It still hurts.
Yeah pain still happens, but there's no "me" here to suffer from it or make a big story about how unfair it is. It's just "OUCH!" and then it goes away. Some quick experimentation shows that pain tolerance seems to have gone up too...

Sure it is sad that there are bodies that experience unneccesary pain. I guess that creates some compassion, but still there seems to be no need for seriousness. In what way does "being serious" actually help alleviate suffering? It seems to be a suffering in itself. Being sincere seems like a nice characteristic, but seriousness seems to be purely a boring ego product.

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 12:17 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
In what way does "being serious" actually help alleviate suffering? It seems to be a suffering in itself. Being sincere seems like a nice characteristic, but seriousness seems to be purely a boring ego product.

Soooo.....  Are you being serious about not being serious?

emoticon

Psi

P.S.

Or perhaps, seriously sincerely not serious.

3x real fast

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 12:22 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
In what way does "being serious" actually help alleviate suffering? It seems to be a suffering in itself. Being sincere seems like a nice characteristic, but seriousness seems to be purely a boring ego product.

Soooo.....  Are you being serious about not being serious?

emoticon

Psi

P.S.

Or perhaps, seriously sincerely not serious.

3x real fast
Ouch... fuck.. you got me... ego-death imminent! emoticon

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 2:32 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Sure it is sad that there are bodies that experience unneccesary pain. I guess that creates some compassion, but still there seems to be no need for seriousness. In what way does "being serious" actually help alleviate suffering? It seems to be a suffering in itself. Being sincere seems like a nice characteristic, but seriousness seems to be purely a boring ego product.

I'm not advocating "seriousness", whatever that means, Mattias. I was advocating compassion. That is far from being a waste of time, boring or of necessity a product of ego.

RE: No compassion
Answer
7/1/15 6:15 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Sure it is sad that there are bodies that experience unneccesary pain. I guess that creates some compassion, but still there seems to be no need for seriousness. In what way does "being serious" actually help alleviate suffering? It seems to be a suffering in itself. Being sincere seems like a nice characteristic, but seriousness seems to be purely a boring ego product.

I'm not advocating "seriousness", whatever that means, Mattias. I was advocating compassion. That is far from being a waste of time, boring or of necessity a product of ego.

Ah well in that case there is no disagreement. Compassion seems to be a noble and helpful emotion that arises spontaneously in the awake. emoticon