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More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?

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More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/29/15 4:06 PM
What is the highest pleasure a human can currently experience? Is it 2nd jhana? Is the baseline state of enlightenment? A couple of molly's and a stripper?

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/29/15 4:18 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Infinite bliss of awakening by Stephen Jourdain sounds pretty nice. At least, he'd rate that #1, but I can't speak from personal experience on this aspect, not to mention it isn't an experience it seems.

I can see this topic running into the issue of pleasure as a relative experience then the pleasure that isn't a pleasure in the conventional sense that has to deal with awakening.

An excerpt here he kinda answers the question:


GF: The awakening is traditionally associated with happiness, bliss, beatitude. What does it mean to you?

SJ: That is a very important question. There's a reason to clearly distinguish two things that usually do not seem easily seperable, namely happiness and value. When the awakening erupts, it is nothing other than infinite value. But that infinite value is not bliss. Of course, the eruption is accompaied by a gust of unheard-of joy. But, in its essence, that value is independent of all beatitude. What I mean to say is that if one talks about awakening in terms of bliss, the infinite value seems somehow justified by happiness. Thus, one remains fundamentally on the rational plane: there's value because I feel joy, because I'm happy. But this infinite value has no substance, no appearance, and no justification. Therefore, there's a mystery: how does that value impose itself when it's unjustifiable? The mystery is there, blatant; that's the way it is. To put this in words that aren't mine--let's say there is a God and a paradise. If it's completely natural and legitimate that God leads to paradise, it's still imperative not to confuse one with the other. God is inexplicable. The divine value is fundamentally unjustifiable, mysterious, and gratuitous. It supplies nothing and doesn't remunerate us in coins of happiness. The fact it then generates paradise seems to make it explicit.

It’s true that the great joys susceptible of being generated by that infinite, inexplicable, unjustifiable value are completely unheard of. Compared to these joys, the greatest pleasure accessible on earth in the usual conscious state is nothing but straw and dust. But these joys are themselves nothing but straw and dust in relation to the unjustifiable, supreme quality, the inexplicable infinite value. Seeing this value supplies nothing; one doesn’t approach it in the hope of any gain. One could speak of lack of involvement as with moral value. One doesn’t do good in order to be rewarded; one does it for goodness’ sake.

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/29/15 4:19 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
That depands on how hot the stripper is and how good the molly is!

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/29/15 7:21 PM as a reply to Chris.
Chris:
That depands on how hot the stripper is and how good the molly is!
IME, PCEs blow all that regular stuff out of the water.  Sex, food, etc, can't even come close to comparing, I would barely remember to eat because eating just seemed so nothing in comparison.  I didn't care about hunger pains either, they were barely a blip on the radar.  I have no experience with hard drugs so can't include those in the comparison though.  ;-P  I am not sure how PCE relate to nonduality so can't comment on that either. 
-Eva

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 8:34 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Yeah the awakening experiences in general tend to blow mundane stuff like sex out of the water.


Now I'm thinking a cocktail of MDMA + quality Sativa weed + Mushrooms* + Two Yoga babes having sex with me + Going completely non-dual + Divine Union = This body/mind system dying in a very pleasurable way..?



* I want mushrooms added to the mix for some extra fun visual effects, possible connection with aliens and hysterical laughter.

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 11:54 AM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Consider the bits of conscious experience that would form the sum of the moment of climax after a six hour threeway with myself, Emilia Clarke, and Emma Watson, with me on DMT, shrooms, and ecstasy, while in the fourth jhana, getting a real good back rub, listening to Mozart, and eating chocolate covered bacon.

I use that moment as my object of meditation and gain stream entry.

Then, the next day, I have a meeting with Phil from accounting, and I'm sitting there like "ughh.."

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 12:23 PM as a reply to chris mc.
chris mc:


Then, the next day, I have a meeting with Phil from accounting, and I'm sitting there like "ughh.."
Yeah but you retain the good feeling even during a meeting with Phil.  ;-P  Seriously, when in PCE, things just don't seem to bother me, not even what I had thought were super irritating people doing what I had thought were super irritating things.  Even those kinds of things feel good.  Existing feels good, sitting doing nothing feels good.  Everything feels good.  Perspective is very different. 
-Eva

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 12:54 PM as a reply to chris mc.
chris mc:
Consider the bits of conscious experience that would form the sum of the moment of climax after a six hour threeway with myself, Emilia Clarke, and Emma Watson, with me on DMT, shrooms, and ecstasy, while in the fourth jhana, getting a real good back rub, listening to Mozart, and eating chocolate covered bacon.

I use that moment as my object of meditation and gain stream entry.

Then, the next day, I have a meeting with Phil from accounting, and I'm sitting there like "ughh.."

Chocolate covered bacon... really? Interesting concept but... really?

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 6:33 PM as a reply to chris mc.
chris mc:
Consider the bits of conscious experience that would form the sum of the moment of climax after a six hour threeway with myself, Emilia Clarke, and Emma Watson, with me on DMT, shrooms, and ecstasy, while in the fourth jhana, getting a real good back rub, listening to Mozart, and eating chocolate covered bacon.

I use that moment as my object of meditation and gain stream entry.

Then, the next day, I have a meeting with Phil from accounting, and I'm sitting there like "ughh.."

If you were in 4th jhana you'd be too mellow even to notice the two lovelies. Not so sure if you could even stay in that jhana while doing ecstasy and 'shrooms, actually (being a literal-minded bore here). 

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 6:36 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
Hi, Mattias! I'm doing great , btw--and as for chocolate covered bacon, what's not to like? You've got your four food groups: Cocoa, sugar, fat, and salt! Plus a teensy bit of protein, but that's okay.

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
6/30/15 6:49 PM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
Hi, Mattias! I'm doing great , btw--and as for chocolate covered bacon, what's not to like? You've got your four food groups: Cocoa, sugar, fat, and salt! Plus a teensy bit of protein, but that's okay.

Happy to hear you're doing great. WIll have to try the chocolate covered bacon I guess... emoticon

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
7/8/15 7:58 PM as a reply to Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg.
So anyone here with experience of molly/jhana/heroin want to compare it?

RE: More Pleasurable - Jhana or 4th path?
Answer
7/9/15 12:48 AM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P:
So anyone here with experience of molly/jhana/heroin want to compare it?

I have often wondered if some of the drugs can feel similar.  The big diff I would suspect is that drugs force it even if you are not ready.  You don't do the development preparation but suddenly you are in the deep end, it's like if a newbie swimmer was expected to swim the English channel as the first lesson.  The end result is the circuit board can easily get fried when too much current is run without proper preparation,.  So you could get a brief taste of bliss and the side effect can be damage such that sustained bliss the natural way may become less likely. But once you've had that taste, that's the best thing you've ever experienced so you naturally want more and more, and regular life seems pale in comparison, but each time you try for it via drugs, the sytem becomes more and more damaged until you could become a wrecked shell if you are not careful.   Getting it the natural way may seem long and hard and unreliable, but if you get it, then you get to have it in a sustained way with good health which is much better obviously.  ;-P