Message Boards Message Boards

Books and Websites

New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground

Toggle
New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 7/29/15 11:21 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Mark 7/29/15 11:47 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Mark 7/31/15 1:31 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 2:43 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Mark 8/1/15 10:38 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 12:04 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Mark 8/2/15 8:29 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/2/15 8:42 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Eric B 7/31/15 10:33 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 2:37 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 5:23 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Chris Marti 8/1/15 10:42 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 12:05 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Small Steps 7/31/15 11:11 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/1/15 2:33 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Causes & Conditions 8/12/15 6:48 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Alan Smithee 8/13/15 9:49 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Alan Smithee 8/13/15 10:43 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/13/15 1:34 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Alan Smithee 8/13/15 2:24 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 8/15/15 1:45 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/15/15 3:47 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 8/16/15 8:28 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Psi 8/16/15 12:10 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Alan Smithee 8/17/15 1:32 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Matthew O'Connell 8/13/15 1:32 PM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Mark 1/14/16 1:57 AM
RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground Eric B 1/14/16 10:42 AM
New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
radio podcast dharmaoverground kennethfolk danielingram hoklaisobol vincehorn buddhistgeeks nonbuddhists
Answer
7/29/15 11:21 AM
Hi all,
There's an interesting new podcast called the Imperfect Buddha Podcast put together in part by yours truly. The latest episode discusses the Dharma Overground and the work of Daniel, kenneth, Vince, Hokai as well the non-Buddhists. Here's a link in case you want to give it a whirl. You can download it or listen online. Episode 2.2. specifically discusses the aformentioned.

https://soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism

Enjoy!
Matthew

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
7/29/15 11:47 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
7/31/15 1:31 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew O'Connell:
Hi all,
There's an interesting new podcast called the Imperfect Buddha Podcast put together in part by yours truly. The latest episode discusses the Dharma Overground and the work of Daniel, kenneth, Vince, Hokai as well the non-Buddhists. Here's a link in case you want to give it a whirl. You can download it or listen online. Episode 2.2. specifically discusses the aformentioned.

https://soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism

Enjoy!
Matthew
Hi Matthew,

Great job on the podcast. The name Imperfect Buddha sets things up well, should serve as a good filter. I listened to 2.2 and it was full of references that have me looking forward to your future podcasts. I've not seen much mention of Non Buddhism on this forum but at first glance it seems complimentary.

Regarding transcending views you might like Soryu Forall who addresses this directly at 14:30 in the podcast http://secularbuddhism.org/2015/07/12/episode-227-soryu-forall-center-for-mindful-learning/

I'm hesitant to critique the podcast. Happy to do so but want to encourage you even more!

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
7/31/15 10:33 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Do you have a URL for an RSS feed so I can subscribe using a podcast app?

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
7/31/15 11:11 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
I found the banter between you and the co-host amusing and entertaining. Looking forward to future (advertised) broadcasts.

A bit of geeky feedback: maybe transcode sound files to a lower bitrate before posting (or offer low bitrate version)? Your latest show was a 200+MB download, but after I dropped it to 64k/mono, it clocked in at 47MB, and sound quality was fine. My mp3 player is always quite full, so smaller files are helpful.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 2:33 AM as a reply to Small Steps.
Thank you. I'll pass that message and advice by the geekeier member of the podcast.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 2:37 AM as a reply to Eric B.
I'll check in with my tech guy and see what he says.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 2:43 AM as a reply to Mark.
Thanks for that Mark. As for non-Buddhism being compatibile, I'd give two responses. The first is that the 'creators' of non-Buddhism would likely say that's wrong as they see any identification with Buddhism as inherently problematic. There is a heuristic created by Glenn Wallis, a highly intellectual academic, that deconstructs Buddhism dramatically and its first step is to undermine any affinity with Buddhism. We're going to cover the heuristic in steps in future episodes as we both consider it of immense importance to evolving western Buddhism. The second response is that anyone genuinly interested in critical thought and creative thinking about Buddhist issues, including possibly many folks here, would find it either challengning to cherished beliefs and ideas or possibly liberating. The latter is what I got out of it.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 5:23 AM as a reply to Eric B.
Eric B:
Do you have a URL for an RSS feed so I can subscribe using a podcast app?

For now, we don't have an RSS feed set up. We'll look to get that sorted at some point. For now, you can always keep up to date with new episodes, news and updates via our Facebook page or Twitter feed, or get new info in your mail box by following the mother-site, Post-traditional Buddhism. Hope this helps.

http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/
https://www.facebook.com/imperfectbuddha
https://twitter.com/Imperfectbuddha


RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 10:38 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew O'Connell:
Thanks for that Mark. As for non-Buddhism being compatibile, I'd give two responses. The first is that the 'creators' of non-Buddhism would likely say that's wrong as they see any identification with Buddhism as inherently problematic. There is a heuristic created by Glenn Wallis, a highly intellectual academic, that deconstructs Buddhism dramatically and its first step is to undermine any affinity with Buddhism. We're going to cover the heuristic in steps in future episodes as we both consider it of immense importance to evolving western Buddhism. The second response is that anyone genuinly interested in critical thought and creative thinking about Buddhist issues, including possibly many folks here, would find it either challengning to cherished beliefs and ideas or possibly liberating. The latter is what I got out of it.

Hi Matthew,

I used the term complimentary - I don't see them as compatible. Another example might be how some people on DhO see Actual Freedom as complimentary to their Buddhist practises, others mix in Magick, others drugs, some even read suttas. DhO posters are a broader mix than the area MCTB covers.

Another thinker who has some profound criticism of Buddhism is Ken Wilber. Is typical style he announced the Fourth Turning. It seems to be an approach that would annoy most Buddhists and most Non Buddhists - so perhaps worthy of a mention.

So far I've found it hard to find pragmatic conclusions from the Non Buddhist writings. Are you aware of a document that gives a sort of inventory of what the contribution has been up to some point in time from the Non Buddhist perpsective ?

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 10:42 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew, I listened to the 2.2 version of your new podcast series yesterday. Very, very nice exploration of trends at the edge of western Buddhism. I was educated and entertained. Thanks for all the work you put into it. It pays off for me - hope it does for you guys, too. I'm looking forward to many more. Stay edgy!

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 12:04 PM as a reply to Mark.



I used the term complimentary - I don't see them as compatible. Another example might be how some people on DhO see Actual Freedom as complimentary to their Buddhist practises, others mix in Magick, others drugs, some even read suttas. DhO posters are a broader mix than the area MCTB covers.

Another thinker who has some profound criticism of Buddhism is Ken Wilber. Is typical style he announced the Fourth Turning. It seems to be an approach that would annoy most Buddhists and most Non Buddhists - so perhaps worthy of a mention.

So far I've found it hard to find pragmatic conclusions from the Non Buddhist writings. Are you aware of a document that gives a sort of inventory of what the contribution has been up to some point in time from the Non Buddhist perpsective ?
Hi Mark,
You're right. Complimentary makes a difference and I agree that non-Buddhism certainly can be although the very brief points I made still stand. Non-Buddhism, if carried forward, will fuck up any Buddhist or spiritual beliefs. Some people may find such a process abhorent, undesirable or simply resist the process. I've always felt that beliefs that don't stand up to heavy scrutiny to be unworthy of my attention so the process has been liberating and sobering to say the least. The pragmatic application of the ideas and praxis within the work of Glenn or Tom is this, to destroy the networks of spiritual or Buddhist beliefs that act to stabilise identification with a Buddhist or spiritual self. This is a topic we will discuss in more detail when we get to a proper non-Buddhism episode.
There is no inventory. Glenn's heuristic, linked at my site, provides the core of non-Buddhism, but it's an intellectual challenge to say the least and certainyl not for everyone: though it is highly pragmatic in my humble opinion. Tom Pepper at his site has articulated an understanding of the thought and application of Nagarjuna's works. The implications of his conclusions may blow some people's mind and turn others off as he discusses politics alot.
As for Wilber's fourth turning, I think his announcement was widly seen for what it is; a vain marketing trick.
Matthew

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/1/15 12:05 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Matthew, I listened to the 2.2 version of your new podcast series yesterday. Very, very nice exploration of trends at the edge of western Buddhism. I was educated and entertained. Thanks for all the work you put into it. It pays off for me - hope it does for you guys, too. I'm looking forward to many more. Stay edgy!


Thanks Chris. Appreciate the compliments. We shall endevour to stay edgy. Buddhism needs it emoticon

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/2/15 8:29 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Hi Matthew,

By "Glenn's heuristic" do you mean his article "Nascent Speculative Non Buddhism" ? Did you have Tom's article "Taking Anatman Full Strength and Santideva’s Ethics of Truth" in mind ? It is excellent and I've bumped an old thread mentioning it here.

Was the http://nonplusx.com ever public ? It seems to be private now but indexed by Google.

As you are aware, people with important ideas tend to come across a little weird. There is a huge amount of criticism of Wilber regarding form, if you can ignore the superficial there is depth to his criticisms and they are fairly easy to understand.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/2/15 8:42 AM as a reply to Mark.
How odd Mark. The journal has always been freely available. When I put up show notes a week back I linked to the journal and it was available. Yes, you're spot on with the articles, they are the ones I was referring to.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/12/15 6:48 PM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Cool podcast! I hope you put it on itunes!

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/13/15 9:49 AM as a reply to Causes & Conditions.
I thought the podcast was interesting!

Certainly, however, Daniel Ingram, Kenneth Folk, and the Dharma Overground could have all benefited from their own individual episodes.  It would have been nice to have heard some specific discussion of the techniques Daniel and Kenneth use and promote.  Also, do the podcasters have any history and experience with the techniques?  What are their thoughts about the states and stages?  

There is a lot of history here, and one day I'd like to read it.  The Dharma Overground obviously at a certain points had a kind of major heyday, when some very serious practioners and theoriticians frequented the site.  At certain points, however, there have been major falling outs, splinters, and disapearances.  Then next generations of practioners and theoriticians arise and then pass away.  There have been moments when the discussions on this site have been so profound, the discoveries made and explicated so fascinating, that it felt like the true center of a vibrant American mediation movement.  Then we had the Absolute Freedom explosion, which to a certain extent, I feel, tore the site apart.  I'd really like to hear a podcast about Absolute Freedom, the debates it caused on the site, and its fallout.  

For me, the most revelatory part of the podcast was the discussion of Speculative Non-Buddhism.  I hadn't been aware of these thinkers before listening to the podcast, and I've been reading the articles over at the site with some interest.  Luckily, the "Speculative" part isn't really indicative of the heavy influence of "Speculative Realism," but more so the Continental philosophy of Marxism, Badiou, etc.  As a Marxist myself and a Badiouian, I've been finding some of the provocations stimulating.  As someone who himself once posted a Zizek article to this site, and asked some heartfelt questions about social activism/engagement, and received some very disappointing responses [for instance, I should stop worrying about politics and instead focus on my "big toe" will be one I'll NEVER forget], it is wonderful to read texts which related to some of the same concerns I had.

At the same time, there is some disconnect between a critique of 1) the philosophy of various Buddhist traditions, and 2) how Buddhism is being incorporated into the West, and the type of PRACTICE of meditation which, say, Daniel puts forward in his book.  It is all well and good to seriously critique how the mindfullness movement is being used to support/bolster corporations and capitalism, but what does all this have to do with the very real states and stages [nanas and jhanas] which verifiably exist when one does the practices/techniques?  There is a kernel of the Real here, which is that there if you strip away all the history and philosophies and appropriations, etc., there are still some real practices which if used produce real results.  

In Marxist terms, I feel like there is a lot of discussion of the superstructure as opposed to the infrastructure.  This is part of the contribution of Daniel, that he tried, as much as possible, to strip away all the bullshit and reveal a practice which has effects on the mind.  Now I'm sure one can critique this itself as embeded in a type of ideology, but what would Tom Pepper say about a jhana, you know?  

In the end, everything can be subsumed within capitalism.  Every ideology will disappoint because all of them end up being complicit with the system.  Even so called revolutionary ideologies can be critiques as complicit with the system, such as utopianism, ultra-leftism, etc.  I realize that there is a necessary discussion to have regarding Buddhism's conservative, solipsistic, apolitical tendencies, but I would love to have read more from the Speculative Non-Buddhists about how to radicalize Buddhism.  Are there liberatory threads/strands?  I'm sure there are.  When one looks at things dialectically, one sees that all things contain both liberatory AND reactionary seeds...       

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/13/15 10:43 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
I don't think Buddhism HAS to be so solipsistic and/or focused on the individual.  For instance, in Thich Nhat Hanh's commentary on The Heart Sutra [I know Hanh received a lot of criticism from the SNBs], he suggests that we understand emptiness as "empty of independent existence"; meaning, we do not exist as independent entities because of interpenetration and interdependence.  This could obviously be tied to an understanding of the self as a collective self.  Also, interpenetration can be used to tie to nature, and thus an environmental critique.  What about dukkha [unsatisfactoriness]?  Can't dukkha be tied to the necessity of struggle, of never being satisfied with the status quo?  Struggle as a first principle?  What about impermanence?  Can't this be tied to a dialectical understanding of history/reality, in which change is a constant?  No self is obviously anti-essentialism, which means we are constructs.  Can't this be tied to a critique of ideology, individualism, etc.?  Can't meditation be used in an attempt to break down ideology? What about the figure of the bodhisattva?  Couldn't this be a kind of Buddhist activist ideal?  Can't Buddhism be used within the activist community to stress the importance of "self care," which is a major issue due to burnout, etc.?  Wouldn't meditation be great to practice in jail after you've been arrested for civil disobedience?  I feel that there CAN be a revolutionary Buddhism.  I don't think there is necessarily anything in Buddhism which makes it fundamentally reactionary.      

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/13/15 1:32 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Hi there,
Glad you enjoyed the podcast and it is refreshing to hear from a person that is interested in hardcore practice AND Marx and Baidou! Keep going with the SNB site, there is plenty of good material. If you can locate Glenn's huristic, you will find much to like. It is the most practical tool to emerge from that project.
Time is limirted so the material we cover is naturally selective. The idea was to provide an overview of innovations in western Buddhism. We are not so interested in interviewing specific guests like Daniel as the Buddhist Geeks have already done that, but rather having a discussion with guests about issues and practices and exploring together, which may include the DO founders if they are interested and an interestign topic comes up.
I hung around the DOF for a couple of years before AF appeared on the scene and also did noting practice for a similiar time period.
Matthew 'The Imperfect Buddha Podcast'

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/13/15 1:34 PM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
Allsounds good Alan. Keep going with the SNB & don't forget to check out show notes on the episode http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/2015/07/23/2-2-new-podcast-episode-is-out-the-dharma-oveground-the-non-buddhists/

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/13/15 2:24 PM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew O'Connell:
Allsounds good Alan. Keep going with the SNB & don't forget to check out show notes on the episode http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/2015/07/23/2-2-new-podcast-episode-is-out-the-dharma-oveground-the-non-buddhists/

I appreciate all this links you've provided at this site.  I hunted down many of the articles mentioned, but this is indeed more comprehensive.  

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/15/15 1:45 AM as a reply to Alan Smithee.
"empty of independent existence"; meaning, we do not exist as independent entities because of interpenetration and interdependence.  This could obviously be tied to an understanding of the self as a collective self.  Also, interpenetration can be (...) thus an environmental critique.



+1, co-arising, absolutely not beyond each other's influences/actions.

I will have to go to some public wifi and listen to these soon. Thank you.

And...

Zizek!

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/15/15 3:47 AM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Zizek!


He rocks. His understanding of ideology is superb. Check out our newest episode on Buddhist cults. I'm sure the AF demonstrate some cultish behaviour. For those askign after itunes, we're looking into it. 

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/16/15 8:28 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew O'Connell:
I'm sure the AF demonstrate some cultish behaviour.

=] I am sure, Matthew, in learning a system with a group, we are all part of some cultish beahviour.


Even Amazon-Seattle, with all its encouragement that white-collar staff berate and debate each other into greater performance and ideation, I doubt staff are welcome to challenge the AMZN principles themselves or AMZN existence itself! 

Likewise, one look at the broad divisions formed just in Buddhist science of mind (and/or Buddhism as religions) is to know sects and cultishness!

For myself, I feel this is why there is in Theravadan buddhism there is the sutta expression "dropping the raft" and recognition to stand by no divisions, to know for oneself merely conditions and causality (to, at best/wisest, recluse oneself) and that Zen, likewise, sometimes exemplifies release of any logical utterances -- nothing sensical can be said in the context of a cosmos arising and passing; yet practically a person can live very sensical in prosocial conduct.

+ + +

Zizek.. I love the two films "The Pervert's Guide to Cinema" (2006) and "The Pervert's Guide to Ideology" (2012). For what it's worth, at the end of one of those, he clearly seems to respect "love thy neighbor" in the context of Christ, in re-orienting human conditions away from its aggressiveness and cruel potentials/outcomes, as a practical guidance. 

Here is Zizek on post-modern fatherhood =]

few edits for the links and typos

edit: It is a wonder of mine if Baidou could have made his points simpler if it weren't for conceit and desire for status in academia. His intro to the second edition recently almost seemed like an apology for so much clever contorsion. This would be okay. I think there are probably a few natural (even healthy) stages of joining some system (cult): joining, being somewhere in the heirarchy and feeling 'safe' there, and/or trying to mount or be the highest pee'er in the group, laughing at the whole thing/leaving, returning and teaching with an understanding of the natural cycle and the system's ability house a human's development until they are autonomous in conditions.

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/16/15 12:10 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
katy steger:

For myself, I feel this is why there is in Theravadan buddhism there is the sutta expression "dropping the raft" and recognition to stand by no divisions, to know for oneself merely conditions and causality (to, at best/wisest, recluse oneself) and that Zen, likewise, sometimes exemplifies release of any logical utterances -- nothing sensical can be said in the context of a cosmos arising and passing; yet practically a person can live very sensical in prosocial conduct.
Well said, well said indeed.  emoticon

Psi

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
8/17/15 1:32 PM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
Matthew O'Connell:
Zizek!


He rocks. His understanding of ideology is superb. Check out our newest episode on Buddhist cults. I'm sure the AF demonstrate some cultish behaviour. For those askign after itunes, we're looking into it. 

Great episode!! I love anything having to due with cults.  I appreciate that ya'll did some research on the phenomenon, and then applied it to some cults I wasn't particularly familiar with. 

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
1/14/16 1:57 AM as a reply to Matthew O'Connell.
I'd almost forgotten about this, tuned out a bit with the earlier cult related sessions. Really enjoyed these:

https://soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism/51-imperfect-buddha-podcast-on-the-limits-of-secular-buddhism-buddhists-engaging-with-academia undermines assumptions regarding the scope and coherence of buddhism
https://soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism/52-imperfect-buddha-podcast-jayarava-decimates-rebirth-karma strong arguments from buddhists highlighting incoherences in karma and rebirth
https://soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism/61-imperfect-buddha-podcast-engaged-buddhism-the-apolitical-trend critical look at the limited achievements of engaged buddhism

RE: New Podcast discussing Dharma Overground
Answer
1/14/16 10:42 AM as a reply to Mark.
They now have a URL for the TSS feed, so can subscribe in a podcast app.