Have You Ever Been Experienced?

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Daniel - san, modified 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 5:07 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 4:50 AM

Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Nice song, that guy was definitely experienced - but what does it mean?
I'll take a stab. I have been in a life threatening situation before, and time became different, everything went slow motion. Fear was a distant humorous idea, an emotion that I couldn’t even will to arise – just totally centered. Many people here have had experiences like this, some, many times more grand. I also experienced a period of years where I did not experience fear or anger. This is what I mean by being experienced
When you are experienced, a certain confidence develops. You can tell me that the entire world is not composed of energy, or barely existent micro-particles arising and passing away in mind-numbing rapidity, but I know better. I am experienced.
Another example to drive home what I am saying. You are sitting at your computer reading this post right now. If someone were to tell you that you were not, you were actually in a poppy field playing the tambourine in your tighty whities, you would ignore them, they are clearly insane. You are experienced, you know exactly where you are. In this case, you don’t argue, you see things clearly, this man is crazy, it simply won’t help to argue.
So I have experientially developed confidence in the Buddhist teachings of the Three C’s, all phenomenal things are clearly impermanent, only an Actualist would argue with that (zing!). Things are obviously not satisfying, otherwise, why would you be up this late at night in your sweat-stained spiderman PJs eating the white filler out of discarded oreo shells, reading post after post on a site devoted to sitting in one place all day staring at the back of your eyelids? Clearly there’s dukkha. Then the third one, no-self, trickier - I'll move on   
What I'm doing here is delineating between experience and philosophy, two very different things with very different results 
Experience is the source of a deep unshakable confidence, an utter fearlessness.
With philosophy, or belief, it is never 100%, there is always a shadow of a doubt. A fear, right in there - dirty yin in my nice clean yang (or is it the other way around? ; )
So religions have belief, and they have fear. Wisdom has knowledge, experience and confidence - fearlessness 
If you are honest with yourself you will know the limits of your own development in these various qualities
These are some of the cutting edge questions in my practice now - have you attained to the goals of your original intention for practice? What were those goals exactly? What are they now and how/why have they changed? Do you want to be emotionless? Is that the height of human development? Who is the most highly developed human being you can think of in human history? What are they like?
I think intentions color the type of awakening one has. There seem to be several types
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Noah, modified 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 5:42 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 5:42 AM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

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These are some of the cutting edge questions in my practice now - have you attained to the goals of your original intention for practice?


Yes, to a medium extent.

What were those goals exactly?


With the guidance of a trusted, experienced teacher: Note until I progress through the nanas one complete insight cycle.  Do that again.  Repeat until an event occurs which changes the process of perception forever in a subtle way.  Repeat even more until an event which changes the process of perception forever in a gross way.  Watch for how this process relieves the conventional pain of bipolar disorder.  If it does not do enough for me to be satisfied, explore other options.

What are they now and how/why have they changed?


Same basic gameplan from the beginning, which is to hit a level of development where I feel completely satisfied.

Do you want to be emotionless?


Yes sir!  But there are probably undertones of the word 'emotionless' that would not apply to the outcome I am aiming for.

Is that the height of human development? Who is the most highly developed human being you can think of in human history? What are they like?


I don't know, but also don't care about/stress that type of thinking.  I have too much work to do on myself currently.

I think intentions color the type of awakening one has. There seem to be several types.


Agreed.  Although different mind hacks might not all fit into the connotations of the word 'awakening.'  Blah, semantics.

Great skyping with you the other night, Daniel!
Eva Nie, modified 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 8:56 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/26/15 8:56 AM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 831 Join Date: 3/23/14 Recent Posts
I suspect that is part of why Actualists believe as they do and also those of many other religions, because they use the tools of their religion and then they experience strange and interesting things just as that religion promised.  Seeing is believing as they say.  And some of those things you describe, I have experienced, although often they seemed to happen rather randomly and intermittantly and much of them before any special practices of mine.  The thing is, those who follow specific practices that yield for them interesting experiences, just because of that, some may assume that every single sentence and molecule of that belief system of that practice is exactly true.  However just because weird and wacky and amazing and cool stuff happened does not meant the belief system those things are couched in is 100% accurate at all times.  The most successful religions will have a large percentage of authentic yielding stuff, but it's the rest of it that you really gotta watch out for!  ;-P  Not trying to single out any specific religion here, just making comments in general about why you don't see me jumping on board with any specific belief system or religion too strongly.  I have certainly experienced some strange and interesting things, but generally that just tells me that strange and interesting things exist.  The rest, IMO, is guesswork.  ;-P

In answer to your question, I have attained my original goal which was to have stable and calmed down emotions and much less suffering and reactivity.  I can enjoy life a lot more now!  Ironically, I think my goal was much in line with the Actualist goals.  (not the 'harmless' part though, I am not generally harmful but I am not helpless either which is fine by me)  Actualists seem to have a different definition of 'emotionless' though, they use a definition that sounds more like mostly just having happy emotions but for some reason they call this 'emotionless.'  (apparently it has to do with their belief system of where various feelings come from, body vs mind) And ironically, my methods were not super unlike what Actualists use either (other people are calling it mindfullness), so it does not surprise me if that stuff works for them.  I just don't feel the need to buy into the whole religionlike aspect of it though.  And since I was reading a link to them recently and saw that Richard said those who spread info about anything that is similar but not exactly like how Richard describes and believes are the correct tools and beliefs of Actualism are in fact (in his opinion) part of a plot (that is supposedly luckily for humanity doomed to fail) to block Actualism from spreading across the world and saving it, well that did give me a good chuckle.  And here I never knew I was so dastardly all this time!  ;-P

As for future goals, it's been a bit strange having gotten to where I had been working for all this time, now kind of not sure what goal to work for next.  Perhaps a bit of refinement, general skill building, and challenging of remaining weaknesses is on the agenda for now.  Before I felt like I had this kind of main goal, now I feel like that goal is done and more like I am puttering around, but that is fine too.  
-Eva
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Daniel - san, modified 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 7:55 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 7:49 AM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Noah S:
What were those goals exactly?

With the guidance of a trusted, experienced teacher: Note until I progress through the nanas one complete insight cycle.  Do that again.  Repeat until an event occurs which changes the process of perception forever in a subtle way.  Repeat even more until an event which changes the process of perception forever in a gross way.  Watch for how this process relieves the conventional pain of bipolar disorder.  If it does not do enough for me to be satisfied, explore other options.

Very well stated and an admirable goal Noah
Anticipating events that will alter our chemistry can be problematic IMO. There is the reality of life, our mind and body makeup and then there is the idea of who we want to be and where we want to go. We may go somewhere else entirely, life has other plans etc
In my mind self development and 'improvement' fall under the category of yoga - the Buddha discovered something deeper - the perfection in non-perfection (my words). Find that and you may lighten up on the whole self-help program, and that in itself may help some (btw everyone knows this effortless effort (more words) but we don't know why we don't stay there. I don't know why either 
But, it may be good to take a break once in awhile from the big project of making yourself better than you already are, and to enjoy your current level of awesomeness - I am speaking from experience
Maybe a glass half full view 

Do you want to be emotionless?

Yes sir!  But there are probably undertones of the word 'emotionless' that would not apply to the outcome I am aiming for.

ok, thak you for your enthusiastic honesty Noah - will you still use exclamation points when you are emotionless?! jk : )
I agree that the 'emotionlessness' that Actualists describe is not the lack of emotions that most people would imagine, but...
Do you really want to be free of love, compassion equanimity and joy? My personal experience confirms that (depending on where the mind is inclined toward) love, compassion, equanimity and joy are what is left when everything else is removed, when one's personal concerns are no longer primary
The philosophy of all this may not matter, things happen as they happen
But I have the idea that View and Intention shapes our experience and development - that is a view of mine : )
So it's very important IMO, intention and view 

Is that the height of human development? Who is the most highly developed human being you can think of in human history? What are they like?

I don't know, but also don't care about/stress that type of thinking.  I have too much work to do on myself currently.

I wish more people were as honest as you for their reasons for practice - most reasons are selfish (I do not mean that in a bad way). I ask about human development because to me, after practicing and studying Buddhism and 'spirituality' for the last nine years, this is where I'm at
Who do I admire, who do I want to be like? Who has developed qualities that I admire and revere, and that I would like to cultivate in myself? 
I see some people out there, the ones I most admire tend to choose discomfort over comfort if it benefits the greater good. Selfless people like this don't behave this way because they are living by a code or practice, they are behaving naturally, in what we may call a saintly way
I don't expect I'm attaining to Buddhahood anytime soon, I have a lot of kleshas (toungue is in cheek) but the goal of Buddhism, especially the Bodhisattva goal, seems like a higher fruit to me. Of course I also want to feel good : )
hand in hand I think 

I think intentions color the type of awakening one has. There seem to be several types.

Agreed.  Although different mind hacks might not all fit into the connotations of the word 'awakening.'  Blah, semantics.

Great skyping with you the other night, Daniel!

You too Noah, I enjoyed hearing a bit about your practice and insights - let's do it again sometime!
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Daniel - san, modified 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 8:02 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 8:02 AM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Eva M Nie:
As for future goals, it's been a bit strange having gotten to where I had been working for all this time, now kind of not sure what goal to work for next.  Perhaps a bit of refinement, general skill building, and challenging of remaining weaknesses is on the agenda for now.  Before I felt like I had this kind of main goal, now I feel like that goal is done and more like I am puttering around, but that is fine too.  
-Eva

Wow, congrats! Can't say I expected that one : )
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SeTyR ZeN, modified 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 8:53 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 8:53 PM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 113 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Hi again Daniel,
Have you noticed the first sentences of  Jimmy's "All along the watchtower" .. the day i heard it, it sparked in me an irresistible desire to find a way out of "here" . I find it beautifully describes the story of the unexperienced, but fearless (young) Joker
Eva Nie, modified 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 9:47 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/27/15 9:47 PM

RE: Have You Ever Been Experienced?

Posts: 831 Join Date: 3/23/14 Recent Posts
Daniel - san:
Eva M Nie:
As for future goals, it's been a bit strange having gotten to where I had been working for all this time, now kind of not sure what goal to work for next.  Perhaps a bit of refinement, general skill building, and challenging of remaining weaknesses is on the agenda for now.  Before I felt like I had this kind of main goal, now I feel like that goal is done and more like I am puttering around, but that is fine too.  
-Eva

Wow, congrats! Can't say I expected that one : )
Well it wasn't like I was trying to become Jesus Christ or anything!  I just wanted to get my %#%^ together, settle my mind, straighten out my life, function well, feel fairly happy day by day, not be a slave to emotions, see things fairly clearly, that kind of thing.   Sounds fairly straightforward but it just took all this time to get there! ;-P

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