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1 johnson 9/18/17 12:17 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Derek 10/24/15 6:53 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Martin Potter 10/24/15 2:21 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/24/15 9:47 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Laurel Carrington 10/24/15 1:41 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/25/15 4:36 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/25/15 7:33 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/26/15 1:18 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/26/15 4:52 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/26/15 12:22 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Psi 10/26/15 8:43 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women (D Z) Dhru Val 10/24/15 3:25 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women CJMacie 10/25/15 5:45 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/25/15 7:37 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women CJMacie 10/25/15 11:46 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/25/15 1:25 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Pål 10/25/15 6:25 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/25/15 7:23 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Pål 10/25/15 11:15 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Richard Zen 10/25/15 2:30 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/25/15 7:13 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Richard Zen 10/26/15 8:35 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/26/15 12:39 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Andreas Thef 10/25/15 1:47 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Derek 10/30/15 7:37 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Andreas Thef 10/31/15 3:03 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women John Power 10/31/15 2:12 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women C P M 10/25/15 12:10 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women johnson 10/25/15 12:43 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women C P M 10/25/15 9:11 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women svmonk 10/25/15 10:37 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Jinxed P 10/26/15 10:57 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/26/15 11:52 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/29/15 2:33 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Dada Kind 10/26/15 6:25 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/26/15 11:34 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/27/15 3:38 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/27/15 3:42 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/28/15 12:42 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Dada Kind 10/28/15 4:58 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/29/15 11:25 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/29/15 4:49 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Dada Kind 10/29/15 3:12 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ 10/29/15 7:01 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Dada Kind 11/3/15 1:25 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/29/15 3:02 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 10/29/15 9:49 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/27/15 9:27 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women bernd the broter 3/9/17 7:10 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/27/15 9:56 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Eva Nie 10/29/15 3:27 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Noah 10/29/15 4:44 AM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Psi 10/29/15 3:49 PM
RE: Semen retention and attracting women Pål 10/28/15 3:00 AM
1
Answer
9/18/17 12:17 AM
 d

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/24/15 6:53 AM as a reply to johnson.
A woman once told me her theory about this.

She says that if you've had an orgasm recently, you will (subconsciously) not be showing much interest in women. Women will (again, subconsciously) pick up on this and not show any interest in you.

On the other hand, if you are full of testosterone, you'll pay much more attention to a woman. She'll then pick up on the fact that you're attending to her and respond accordingly.

I don't know if any of the above is true. Anyway, that was her theory.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/24/15 9:47 AM as a reply to johnson.
rich r a:
I'm wondering if this will eventually happen to me. That without changing anything else in my life, just by meditating and abstaining from ejaculation, I will somehow be much more attractive to women.
Yes, certainly. As any high-quality manosphere blog* will accurately explain, women and their attraction to men are totally one-dimensionally predictable. Therefore, adjusting only one parameter is usually sufficient to cultivate your own self-sustaining harem.
Except lesbians.

Fuckin' lesbians, how do they work?????


I am skeptical because there is no scientific explanation. Do you guys think this is truly possible? That there is some kind of energetic phenomenon or pheremones going on? 
Did you notice that science has done almost nothing for us outside maths, chemistry, biology, physics, computer science and engineering? Do you realize that most results concerning nutrition, sociology, psychology (and even medicine) are dubious at best, and even largely useless? Do you realize that you rightly base hardly any of your life decisions and world models on the results of science?

*(if you do not know what I'm talking about, don't bother to look it up if you want to keep your sanity unshaken)

**Actually, even mathematics failed us, as is beautifully explained here:
https://sciencedefeated.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/09999-1/

***If anyone can give me any evidence of some "energetic phenomenon", I'll give them a cookie. "I feel body sensations by paying attention to a certain area, imagining something special or doing weird movements" doesn't count, because then you are describing body sensations, but I'm asking for "energetic phenomena", whatever that is.

****The theory presented by Derek is of course wrong. The idea that women might respond positively to men (which they might like) being attracted to them is the most ludicrous thing I've heard in 2015 so far. Women aren't attracted by men finding them attractive, they are only attracted to big fat wallets. Therefore I'm sure the effect in question is best explained by some combination of pheromones, energetic phenomenons and unicorns.

*****I started out with the intention to implement an example of Poe's Law, but somehow I got sidetracked. I'm sorry, but I guess I've failed.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/24/15 1:41 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
@Berndt: Women are only attracted to big fat wallets--really? Is this your conclusion? 

@rich: People of all genders are attracted to each other for a variety of reasons, some of them healthier than others. What people want out of sexual relationships is likewise highly variable. If you find that your practice of semen retention is having a beneficial effect on your energy, then go for it. 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/24/15 2:21 PM as a reply to Derek.
Derek Cameron:
A woman once told me her theory about this.

She says that if you've had an orgasm recently, you will (subconsciously) not be showing much interest in women. Women will (again, subconsciously) pick up on this and not show any interest in you.

On the other hand, if you are full of testosterone, you'll pay much more attention to a woman. She'll then pick up on the fact that you're attending to her and respond accordingly.

I don't know if any of the above is true. Anyway, that was her theory.

Yes, but if you spend enough time with them, they will pick up on the fact that you're only interested in them when your sexual energy is high, and this in itself will be a turn-off.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/24/15 3:25 PM as a reply to johnson.
I have been experimenting with semen retention...

The most significant changes are
- Increased vitality and zest for life
- More intense results with bioenergetic practices.

Sexual desire / lust peaks at about 1 and a half weeks, and sort of cycles (while staying fairly high). There can be agitation and restlessness that goes along with lust, the whole idea is to purify this agitation.

In Taoism it is called jing retention. There is a female version of jing retention as well, which obviously doesn't involve conserving semen. 

Jing retention can give you the motivation / energy to take action towards a borad range of goals depending on your intention.

So if you want to attract more women, you will find yourself taking actions (intentional and non-intentional) towards doing that. 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 1:25 AM as a reply to johnson.
My opinion speaking as a female is that attitude has a lot to do with how attractive you will be to women.  Many women (but not all) are attracted to confident, centered, calm, gentlemenly but yet still masculine type men.  You can get an idea from all the famous male roles in movies, but you don't need to be super handsome for it to work.  People might assume those actors are just about appearance but the character roles they play have a lot more commonalities than just looks. 

So if you ask me will doing such and such change your attractiveness to women, I would say if it changes your mental attitude to be more in a certain kind of direction, then quite possibly.  Even just thinking you are more attractive can make you more attractive because it builds confidence.  What you are thinking comes out in behavior in many ways big and small and those things are sensed at various levels by women. 

Interestingly, I think those basic things that man women are attracted too are what we all work towards on the path of enlightenment.  A centered man has little fear of rejection and failure so that man is calm and confident and relaxed when interacting with others  A lot of women are attracted to men who are secure and balanced, neither fearful and insecure nor bragging and prideful (which is another form of insecurity).  A balanced man is not overly interested only in talking about himself but has a genuine interest in the stories of those around him.  There can be a kind of relaxed authenticity that is attractive. 

On the flip side, many dating schools try to teach men to act that way, get over fears, etc.  The problem those men ofte have is when something is partially or fully an act, it may work short term to pick up women, but long term the act will break down and women will feel betrayed when he suddenly changes to a less attractive but more real kind of self.. ;-P  But of course no matter what you do, there will always be some women that will find it attractive.  As men on the prowl, I would guess your goal would be to act in a way such that more women will be attracted.  Whereas with us females, if the same question is asked, we might instead answer that we don't want more men, we just want better quality ones.  ;-P
-Eva 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 1:47 AM as a reply to johnson.
@rich r a: Google Nofap and Karezza. You'll find a lot of what you are talking about. Yes, you will get much more confident and attract woman/men more easily.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 4:36 AM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
@Berndt: Women are only attracted to big fat wallets--really? Is this your conclusion?
emoticon
I wanted to respond, but I seriously can't tell if you're serious. This is going too much meta lol.

And why do people keep writing Berndt with the 't' at the end? Is this some American variation?

more on topic: I think it's a good idea. But it's only a part of the puzzle, although it may be very important.
If you get reports from people who have done it, do realize that they probably aren't aware of all the other factors which led to their success or failure.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 5:45 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Dhru Val:

I have been experimenting with semen retention...

The most significant changes are
- Increased vitality and zest for life
- More intense results with bioenergetic practices.

Sexual desire / lust peaks at about 1 and a half weeks, and sort of cycles (while staying fairly high). There can be agitation and restlessness that goes along with lust, the whole idea is to purify this agitation.

In Taoism it is called jing retention. There is a female version of jing retention as well, which obviously doesn't involve conserving semen. 

Jing retention can give you the motivation / energy to take action towards a borad range of goals depending on your intention.

So if you want to attract more women, you will find yourself taking actions (intentional and non-intentional) towards doing that. 


"Jing", s/t translated as "essence", is considered to determine life-span. Using it up wastefully shortens life. Preserving, even enhancing it, was originally a high 'spiritual' (in the Daoist sense) art. This kind of practice is documented (actual preserved sources) back to at least 3rd-century BCE. It's approachable today in the writings of ManTak Chia, or Dr. Stephen Chang, or, more historically, Volume 25 of the "Yi Shim Po" ("Core Medical Methodology"); see sources like:
https://books.google.com/books?id=XyChBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=Yi+shim+po&source=bl&ots=-E1ZeYsDqB&sig=uRD4XyEkCmRAuLE7VOpaPGxMQXI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAmoVChMIl-j767TdyAIVFOxjCh2Xdwyi#v=onepage&q=Yi%20shim%20po&f=false

Attracting women (but not "more", in the Don Juan sense) does relate, as part of the overall idea in Daoist sexual practices is to procreate strong children, especially sons (China was almost always, and is today the largest ethnic population on the planet).

Using these arts for just pursuit of pleasure is like using CTB ( as in MCTB ) short of the mastery part and lacking the ethical foundation, usually just out of conceit. And like the meditation-negative-side-effects (see current thread on that: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5792064), misusing the sexual-arts methods can have disasterous consequences.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 6:25 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
I love this madness:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nofap

my longest streak ever was like 120, that was fun emoticon

Also, I'd recommend looking into the various traditions of PUA. I've never been practicing it seriously, but it has helped lots of men and it can be very entertaining learning about.

These are in my opinion the most interesting schools of PUA:

Mystery Method/the Game:
I have respect for these people. Done wrong it probaboy turns one into an asshole though. It's basicly about being interesting but not too interested, but that's an oversimplification

Ross Jeffries:
Uses hypnosis and magick. One of the reasons I got into the occult emoticon

Roosh V,
if you can look past his horrible opinions and get into his methods. Especially his day game structure is interesting. He has great examples of how to start conversations with strangers without appearing creepy.

All of these pick-up systems require lots of regular practice though, which is why I've only touched the surface, got enough regular practices already haha

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 7:23 AM as a reply to Pål.
Pål:

These are in my opinion the most interesting schools of PUA:

Mystery Method/the Game:
[...]

Ross Jeffries:
[...]

Roosh V,
[...]
All of these pick-up systems require lots of regular practice though, which is why I've only touched the surface, got enough regular practices already haha
All great approaches if you want to lose your sanity ASAP.

Seriously, getting useful information ouf of these sources is akin to getting healthy food from Fukushima area. There might be something in there, but good luck with not getting exposed to the radiation in the process.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 7:37 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
Chris J Macie:
[...]
Using these arts for just pursuit of pleasure is like using CTB ( as in MCTB ) short of the mastery part and lacking the ethical foundation, usually just out of conceit. And like the meditation-negative-side-effects (see current thread on that: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5792064), misusing the sexual-arts methods can have disasterous consequences.
Such as?

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 11:15 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
I guess for some people it helps with losing both sanity and virginity. Could be worth it. 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 11:46 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
bernd the broter:
Chris J Macie:
[...]
Using these arts for just pursuit of pleasure is like using CTB ( as in MCTB ) short of the mastery part and lacking the ethical foundation, usually just out of conceit. And like the meditation-negative-side-effects (see current thread on that: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5792064), misusing the sexual-arts methods can have disasterous consequences.
Such as?


Chronic ill-health, premature death.

"Serious" could be a better word than "disasterous", as clinging to living can also be valued  or not.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 12:10 PM as a reply to johnson.
A long time ago, I experimented with semen retention.  Having sex without ejaculation, and training a little with that type of thing.

Time goes by, and research relating to work (long story), leads me to looking more into yoga and semen retention by reading old translated Hindu sources.  After some time, I started to believe that this pursuit was just a bunch of superstition.

But, within the last year, without any intention, I happened to find myself without sexual release for about two weeks.  While meditating, sexual feelings arose.  Rather then ignoring and letting them go, for some reason I experimented and let the feelings rise and build.  After a while, things built to the point of what I would describe as a full body orgasm, which was much more powerful than any regular orgasm.  There was no ejaculation, the feelings where well away from the genitals. The waves went all all through my torso and head, and also there was some sort of brain thing involving ecstasy/bliss.  After this I had the thought, OK, clearly, this is what semen retention is all about (but I don't really know for sure). Even though this experience was significant, I'm not drawn to developing this sort of thing further at this time.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 12:43 PM as a reply to C P M.
I don't think PUA is for me. Just don't feel good following that crowd since it attracts a lot of bitter men, imo. Some of the concepts are solid though.

@Chris J Macie
I have read up on some of the writings you've referred to. I have also read many more writings on other topics, such as those in the occult about magick and summonings, as well as religious writings about gods and prayers.

I have no way of telling what's real and what's not. All I can do is experiment on myself, and as far as I know I am feeling a bit better emotionally from abstaining for 1 week.

I don't know what constitutes as "misusing the sexual-arts", but I don't plan on retaining my semen just to get laid. I am hoping that there is truth to those taoist texts, that retaining my semen and staying mentally and physically celibate will lead to a transformation of some sort for me.

@C P M
When you practiced semen retention initially, what did you experience? Why did you come to the conclusion that it was just a bunch of superstition?

I have had somewhat similar experiences while meditating in the past. It's hard to have those experiences because in the next sessions I am craving to feel those sensations again and my meditation goes nowhere.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 2:30 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
rich r a:
I've been bad enough with women for long enough to have a long time to think about why I'm bad with women, and if there's anything I can do to be more attractive. I've also come to the same conclusion that if my personality is more open, confident, calm, and detached from the outcome of things, I will be much more appealing. 

But it's not really easy to change those things. I try... but there are deep rooted anxieties and fears and habits. 

Honestly... I'm kind of tired of wanting to chase after women. I wish it didn't work that way in this society. I wish women are the ones chasing after men.


If you want good relationships you have to learn what people in good relationships do. Certainly money and looks does matter (because houses and kids are expensive) but it's not the only thing because plenty of movie stars divorce and are highly narcissistic.

I would recommend relationship guides that have exercises and practices like with John Gottman:

http://www.amazon.com/Relationship-Guides-Exercises-Improve-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00U6R0NXG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445800133&sr=8-1&keywords=John+Gottman+relationship+guides

I would also look at self-talk and purposefully condition your mind with practice methods of self-talk that are self-accepting and even use relationship guides (which simply create examples of empathetic speaking) as a way of weeding out the wrong women because if you get the wrong woman you'll wish you were single. emoticon

Before people marry they also need to know what they want for day to day life and what the expecations are from their partner. "What do you want from me? What do I want from you?" It's scary that people don't figure out what they want in their life before they marry.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 7:13 PM as a reply to Richard Zen.
Richard Zen:


If you want good relationships you have to learn what people in good relationships do. Certainly money and looks does matter (because houses and kids are expensive) but it's not the only thing because plenty of movie stars divorce and are highly narcissistic.

I would recommend relationship guides that have exercises and practices like with John Gottman:

http://www.amazon.com/Relationship-Guides-Exercises-Improve-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00U6R0NXG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445800133&sr=8-1&keywords=John+Gottman+relationship+guides

I would also look at self-talk and purposefully condition your mind with practice methods of self-talk that are self-accepting and even use relationship guides (which simply create examples of empathetic speaking) as a way of weeding out the wrong women because if you get the wrong woman you'll wish you were single. emoticon

Before people marry they also need to know what they want for day to day life and what the expecations are from their partner. "What do you want from me? What do I want from you?" It's scary that people don't figure out what they want in their life before they marry.
Richard you are jumping ahead in the book!  ;-P  (not really a complaint though).  Just that first you need to attract a female of interest before considering too much further.  I do agree though that having enough understanding self to know short and long term goals is good.  Do you want a serious relationship or just a romp?  Try to go after girls who want the same to lessen hurt feelings.  If you want a relationship, where do you want it to go and what kind of behavior and personality do you expect from the female?  Good to have that on the table early on. 

But need to attract someone.  If you want to attract, then you want to know what successful attractors do and feel and think and PUA will teach you that.  The problem with PUA is that it is totally unsuccessful for anything other than short term sex based relationships and if done as often taught, can also lead to a lot of hurt and pain for females and if done in your home environment, you risk a lot of angry female blowback as well.  Pissed off females can make your life miserable!  ;-P

However, some PUA tactics, which are IMO the more effective ones anyway, can be done totally ethically.  PUA teaches practioners to practice talking to women in ways that women like better, such that you learn confidence and how to talk in a relaxed way.  Like any skill, practice is essential.  You can' t moan and snivel about not being good at throwing a football if you only do a few throws a year, you will need to keep throwing until you master the spiral.  If you practice, even if you suck more than average, over time, you will have more skill than most because most do not practice.  Even if your first batch of throws are terrible, you just learn from them.  Learn to be the witness, step back and analyze and don't get sucked into the drama.

I will say also that I have known a number of men who were skilled in PUA and that stuff works and works well for what it is designed for.  It won't attract all females but it will attract a lot and some of these were men that were basically physically not good looking at all.  I've also seen most of those men who were skilled at PUA were not super happy people.  Because even though they got a lot fo women attracted to them, it did not lead ot happiness, whatever holes were in their hearts and souls, no amount of attracted women were able to fill them and they had no idea what to do about it.  

However, I do think the power that is in the methods could be used for good and I have studied PUA (just from reading, I obviously was not out trying to pick up females) to some extent both out of curiosity and so that I would know if someone was trying to use it on me.  (yes, have run into several men using the method now that I know most of the methods and there are a few telltales that will usually give it away)  One thing I really learned is that if I am very relaxed and confident in myself, I can talk to strangers really easily, crack a joke about something while waiting in the checkout line, or whatever, and if I am confident and relaxed in my communication, then they will almost always feel at ease with talking to me back.  And if they don't well, oop, no big deal, and I am a person that was once painfully shy, so it's nice to be free of that restraint I used to feel.  In the end, attraction is kind of a simple thing, basically if you make others feel good, they will be more likely to feel attracted to you, so a lot of the PUA art is learning what makes most women enjoy themselves more and then doing it.  Knowing how to make others feel good is a power that can be used for both good and evil so people please try to be ethical with your powers.  ;-P 
-Eva

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 7:33 PM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
@Berndt: Women are only attracted to big fat wallets--really? Is this your conclusion? 


If you notice the pattern in his communication style from other threads, what he said might make more sense to you.  From what I have seen, when he does not like what someone says, he will often rephrase it in a satirical way, basically simplifying it and twisting it to be as assinine sounding and obnoxious as possible.  So in the case in question here in this thread,  basically, someone said something like 'many women consider financial stability important in a mate,' it might get twisted you, 'you think women only care about money' which is a more extreme and slightly twisted rephrasing of the statement.  So what he was doing was implying that someone else's comment here on women caring about financial issues was tantamount to saying women only care about money.  Apparently from later comments, he apparently does not realize some people may become confused by this type of communication, it being not common across all social groups.    

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 9:11 PM as a reply to johnson.

@C P M
When you practiced semen retention initially, what did you experience? Why did you come to the conclusion that it was just a bunch of superstition?

I have had somewhat similar experiences while meditating in the past. It's hard to have those experiences because in the next sessions I am craving to feel those sensations again and my meditation goes nowhere.

When I practiced semen retention, it was along time ago. I may have only did it for a few months.  I don't recall any general beneficial effects.  Reading about semen retention in relation to Hindu yoga was a different time, but still a long time ago.  I vaguely remember the focus on the transmutation of semen and blah, blah. But they were working with medieval models of physiology (or earlier), and so at the time, I discounted it.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/25/15 10:37 PM as a reply to C P M.
Hi CPM,
Time goes by, and research relating to work (long story), leads me to looking more into yoga and semen retention by reading old translated Hindu sources.  After some time, I started to believe that this pursuit was just a bunch of superstition.
Right. Semen is like sweat and pee, just another fluid excreted by the body. It's not included in the list of foulnesses to contemplate when doing foulness of the body meditation in the Girmananda Sutta, but I suppose it could have been.
But, within the last year, without any intention, I happened to find myself without sexual release for about two weeks.  While meditating, sexual feelings arose.  Rather then ignoring and letting them go, for some reason I experimented and let the feelings rise and build.  After a while, things built to the point of what I would describe as a full body orgasm, which was much more powerful than any regular orgasm.  There was no ejaculation, the feelings where well away from the genitals. The waves went all all through my torso and head, and also there was some sort of brain thing involving ecstasy/bliss.  After this I had the thought, OK, clearly, this is what semen retention is all about (but I don't really know for sure).
I've had this experience also, and also with respect to kundalini. At times, it can feel like a full body orgasm.

I think the Tibetans cultivate this kind of thing as part of tantric practice. I've read some in Tsongkapa's commentary to the Guhyasmaja Tantra ("A Lamp to Illuminate Five Stages" published by Wisdom a few years ago) and he mentions this. Also, I think that it is the point of the yab-yum visualisations, which I believe are part of the completion stage. I think the idea is to use the bliss as a way to purify the mind of ignorance and the other defilements, not to get attached to it and do it all the time because if feels good. But my knowledge of tantric practice is fragmentary, so I should stop here and let someone else who knows it better comment.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 12:39 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Rich:

I've been bad enough with women for long enough to have a long time to think about why I'm bad with women, and if there's anything I can do to be more attractive. I've also come to the same conclusion that if my personality is more open, confident, calm, and detached from the outcome of things, I will be much more appealing. 

But it's not really easy to change those things. I try... but there are deep rooted anxieties and fears and habits. 

Honestly... I'm kind of tired of wanting to chase after women. I wish it didn't work that way in this society. I wish women are the ones chasing after men.


I sent you a PM as well, but wanted to reply in the thread.  Don't want to get too deep, since it is somewhat off topic, but I have spent a huge amount of time and energy working on the interface between sexual/social dynamics, and inner development.  It is a very deep rabbit-hole, but comes down to the way that you are able to generally improve upon your energy field/energetic resilience, while also taking direct action in the world.  Improvements to what I am calling "the energy field" here include (but are not limited to) healing/integrating psychodynamic issues, attaining paths for permanent peace and/or frequent jhanas for intermittent peace, and massive effort to learn new social skills.  My overall point is that if your goal is to feel mastery over these issues, it is possible, but it takes integrated work in multiple areas.  Feel free to either follow up with me here, or via pm, or not at all.

-Noah

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 1:18 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
"Women aren't attracted by men finding them attractive, they are only attracted to big fat wallets."



http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-biggest-lies-in-online-dating/

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 4:52 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
dafuq did I start o_O

Notice that this graph is about messages in some online-dating site. This is NOT about actual attraction in a real human interaction. Here's a (imho) more balanced, if still imperfect, account:
(excerpt from http://markmanson.net/attract-women)

A proper and honest sexual expression is powerful, and in our society,
rare. In fact, there’s a LOT of societal pressure to hide and
disassociate from our sexuality. Many of us grow up with a great deal of
sexual shame. And not only does this keep us afraid of expressing our
sexual desires openly, but it creates an unhealthy neediness and worship
of sex.Because honest and respectful
demonstrations of sexuality are so rare, not only are women aroused by
it, but it often hits them like a breath of fresh air.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 8:35 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
I did read David DeAngelo stuff many years ago but I didn't get into it and I knew something was wrong. When reading psychology I found out why. When you are advertising a personality and lifestyle, if you fake it then you are attracting women to the fake crap you're doing instead of showing how you really are. The women who like you how you are, will pass you by.

Now pickup artists always say "stop being yourself" and "be what women want." Yet this still doesn't make sense because if you want something long-term you have to already be thinking about routines of life you want. Routines can be good or bad depending on what people want. Also "what women want" is different for each woman. That's why Myers-Briggs opened my eyes to the different thinking styles. There's women who don't like the stereotypical stuff either. 

To me thinking ahead is the most necessary thing because short-term hook-ups are exactly that short-term.

I really believe that people need to be weeding out what is incompatible and attracting what is compatible. Sure do some pick-up artist stuff for the short-term but there has to be a long-term practice and that has to be some form of empathetic speaking you want to do for the rest of your life. Resilient marriages are what we need not short-term successes that turn to failure at the slightest obstacle. Motivation and empathy are necessary and then there's this life of including meditation to replace external enjoyments. Many women will hate that and despise it. Study after study shows that women want (deep in the older brain) men who have lots of money, power and success and that's because money = babies that are fed. Men can be superficial about women because beauty = healthy kids. Always know that will be operating in the background no matter how good a person is at meditation.

In the end it's all about practice and getting out there over and over again until you find a match that is interested in living a wise life full of metta, respect, and resilience. Conscientiousness is also an important skill in the Big 5 personality system because those with that habit cheat less and are more resilient.

The reality is that good marriages live within a budget, have healthy routines, sacrifice entertainment for kids, and work hard enough to make the money to pay for these things. That's the future and faking a romantic behaviour of an aristocrat when you aren't an aristocrat will attract people who want aristocrats and create those expectations that life will always be an aristocrat lifestyle. With this economy and with personality disorders and psychological baggage, pick-up artistry seems totally a lie that sooner or later gets found out.

An even bigger problem is boredom in the brain. As soon as the person you want is yours then the brain goes "what's next?" That's an even bigger problem. This is why savouring in positive psychology is so important. We have to enjoy what we have and be more creative. If there's thrills only in the chase then that's why some people don't stay together. This is why I like meditation because it expands the Flow part of the Flow diagram so that boredom and anxiety are really dealt with without having to constantly increase challenge or increase skill. Life doesn't always allow those opportunities.


RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 8:43 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
General Reply to all:
"Women aren't attracted by men finding them attractive, they are only attracted to big fat wallets."

This seems to be true in my experience.  When I was dating my wife to be , I always had a big fat wallet.  We ended up getting married after a while.  It was only then , and much to her chagrin, that she found that my oversized wallet was actually "fat" because of the numerous receipts and notes that I keep in my wallet, that coupled with movie rental cards, maxed out credit cards, library cards, business cards from Jiffy Lube, etc.  Well, and to be honest I did keep alot of cash on hand, usually around 6-7 One dollar bills, just to keep it real.  I kept those folded in half, looks more impressive ... Adding spare change to the Wallet will also bulk it up alot, and kind of adds a mystery protrusion aspect.  It's like, "Hey , is that change in your wallet?  Or are ya just glad to see me?"  Maybe even wrap a five spot around the outside of my "roll" after payday ...

Psi

P.S.  One more tip for you single guys, the fat wallet trick works even better if you keep it in your front pocket...  Just sayin'

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 10:57 AM as a reply to johnson.
Hey man, some thoughts from a guy who has  tried this. Longest I went was something around a month, no jerking off.  Usually lasted a week or two.

Results were mixed.

1. Happier, better mood, less anxiety.
2. I did hook up more, I think, but this could possibly be explained by lower standards and increased effort do to my increased horniness.
3. A few cases of premature ejaculation. As in very premature, once while simply spooning and another while making out and fondling her large breasts.

I do think jerking off daily, and definitely more than once a day, especially to porn is not good for you. Whether you need to quit it completely or cut back about once a week is a good question. I think that is where the gravy lies. I believe there is an old Kama Sutra text that says you should take your age, subract 7 and divide by 5. That's how long you should go between ejaculations.  From my experimentation, that seems accurate.

As for making yourself more attractive to women, I HIGHLY recommend the book "Mate: Become the Man Women Want" by Geoffrey Miller and Tucker Max.

It's not about being a PUA. Which in a lot of ways (there is some good that comes out of it) about using tactics to get women who normally wouldn't sleep with you.  Far better I think, to cultivate the traits that women find attractive.

Your plan should be..

1. Cultivate traits women find attractive
-looks - get in shape, wear clothes that fit, have some style (not too much). There really is no excuse for you not to be in shape.
-Intelligence- be able to talk about smart topics, explain things to her, teach her things
-Social life- Have a fun social circle, be the kind of guys that knows about things going on, has friends, is active and doing stuff.
-Be funny. If you aren't, then learn how
- And yes, meditating, and overall improving your mental health is a great thing.
- Get a stable career. You don't need to be rich, but being poor is not attractive.
-Understand women, how they think , what they want, etc..

2. Put yourself in situations to meet the women you like..You can be the most attractive person on earth, but it doesn't matter if you aren't around women who can see it. Be it Tinder, Hinge, other online dating, girls from your social circle, girls from class, or work, or the gym..you need to go out and meet them. Bars, clubs, dance studios, yoga, whatever.

The book Mate explains all of this in detail.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 11:52 AM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Just some more thoughts to throw in here, not in response to anyone in particular:

There is no one, hard and fast answer.  Everyone is free to go in any direction they want, but as contemplatives, we have a responsibility to move in the direction of balance.  For some, that might mean more casual "hook ups."  For others, that might mean working towards a long term relationship and building emotional connections in general.  For a third group, they should be abstinent for awhile.  Whether or not semen retention will benefit any of these goals is a toss up.  One's subjective EXPECTATIONS probably make a huge difference in the outcome of such a semen retention experiment as well.

Part of what I feel people need, that commonly is not said, is that you can become something you are not, and that you can do it ethically.  Meaning, a shy, sexually-inexperienced introvert can learn to act like a charismatic extrovert and become very experienced.  A person who has had many casual hook-ups can learn to be intimate, vulnerable, and giving with others and eventually have a wonderful, long term relationship.  A person with a balanced situation can learn to change nothing by becoming more optimistic and appreciative in their outlook.  In my opinion, society's ethical codes do not need to be the strongest deciding factor in how a conscious human decides to live their life.  Many people would disagree, saying that specifically going for casual sex is definitely tacky or that marriage and family life is definitely the greatest joy for all human beings (lol).

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 12:22 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
Ha, I mainly posted it for the lulz, but with a sample size of 1.5 million people, it begs the question, why such an indisputably strong correlation? 

Originally I was going to post mark manson myself and explain my thoughts on it as a more general approach towards attracting women. I think if a guy interested in getting girls and learning how to talk to women not using emotionally manipulative techniques of PUA, Mark Manson is a good primer and a very realistic, healthy, win win for everyone. Quite mainstream with solid advice.

I personally would go the mark manson route to improve success with women over semen retention. But that's probably my personal strategy as that's just too much work. Well, I should say mark Manson's approach is MUCH harder because almost no one is going to regularly cold approach women. I really don't care enough personally. But I don't doubt that basically doing something that will drive your testosterone way up will make you take far more initiative. Men have to take initiative 98% of the time as far as courting goes. And approaching women triggers the acute fear of death in most all men (So they get drunk first).  My take is that it would improve results simply because you're going to approach more than if you masturbate. So doing a lifestyle technique that gives him much more initiative may be what he needs to go for what he wants romantically and in the rest of his life.

Ultimately, the factors that drive attraction for a man are extremely sophisticated. Height matters, charisma matters, looks matter, your friends matter, your clothes matter, your very subtle posture and voice tonality matter, your race matters (basically, be white, whether you're a man or woman), your hobbies matter, your work matters. There is both large variance between women and similarities. But what attracts a women for any given interaction probably depends on if she had lunch and isn't irritable already by the time you talk to her than any thing you say or do. In other words, it's so beyond your control you might as well not give a fuck and be decent enough and let the chips fall where they may. 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 6:25 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Though it seems at first to be wildly off-topic, I'm glad this thread exists. Agreed with the above about this rabbit-hole being deep. I've been fascinated with it for awhile now. I think all meditators should consider their relationship to sex carefully, beyond immediately crossing off celibacy as a possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RTCNuZSCsU

Adding to Jinx's suggestion about "PUA"-y books that take the improve-the-product approach not the improve-the-marketing approach, I recommend Models: Attracting Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. Excellent.

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=16

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/26/15 11:34 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
@ Jinxed, Ryan J, Droll, and others:

This isn't a comment specifically disagreeing with what anyone said, but just kind of chiming in.  I read Mark Manson's book years ago when I was obsessed with the idea of 'inner game', which for me meant that I would become a certain type of person who automatically attracted those he finds attractive.  This myth has dissolved for me over time, and my meditation training has actually helped to completely destroy it.  It all comes down to what your specific goals are, but the truth is that if one wants to attract beautiful people to them, a lot of it is just physical appearance, surface social skills, and being persistent in interactions.   You could feel shitty about yourself inside but get really good at pretending and still ultimately accomplish your dating goals.  

I realized that self acceptance is a whole other ball game.  I feel that I have reached a plateau where I definitely do feel self confidence and esteem, but am not yet fully satisfied with my dating skills.  Teachers like Mark Manson and David DeAngelo are showing guys how to feel good about themselves, which is NOT dating skills.  To me, this is the "mushroom culture" of the seduction community, and I consider myself part of the hardcore/pragmatic faction (lol).

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/27/15 3:38 PM as a reply to Noah.
At Noah, actually I totally agree with you, which is why I posted my semi-joke post first instead of Mark Manson as I have found myself grow distant from him over time on a range of topics and general attitudes. Out of laziness I recommend him because a strong critique of him would be long.

I definitely think you can basically be dilapidated inside and/or a piece of shit and be an expert marketer and get success with women. As long as you are perceived to be something by the other party, what 'you are' doesn't really matter. And most importantly much of Mark Manson stuff are tropes about authenticity, but what does authenticity mean in the scope of the illusion of self-hood anyways? 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/27/15 3:42 PM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ:
At Noah, actually I totally agree with you, which is why I posted my semi-joke post first instead of Mark Manson as I have found myself grow distant from him over time on a range of topics and general attitudes. Out of laziness I recommend him because a strong critique of him would be long.
I would be interested in that critique.

Especially:
Do you think there's a fundamentally more effective way than the method he outlines?
Do you think that authenticity (I'll define for the moment as being honest, vulnerable and without expectations) is not that important or that it can be easily faked to some/many/all people?
Anything which he's totally/largely wrong about?

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
3/9/17 7:10 AM as a reply to Noah.
Hi Noah,
I find your words a bit too vague to understand what you are really talking about.
Noah:

This isn't a comment specifically disagreeing with what anyone said, but just kind of chiming in.  I read Mark Manson's book years ago when I was obsessed with the idea of 'inner game', which for me meant that I would become a certain type of person who automatically attracted those he finds attractive.  This myth has dissolved for me over time, and my meditation training has actually helped to completely destroy it.  It all comes down to what your specific goals are, but the truth is that if one wants to attract beautiful people to them, a lot of it is just physical appearance, surface social skills,

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same book. The last 4 chapter of 'Models' (about 100 pages) is all about those surface social skills. Also, "Bar none, fitness and fashion will do more attract women in a shorter amount of time than anything else." is a pretty clear statement which is exactly what you're saying.

and being persistent in interactions.
What does that mean?  
You could feel shitty about yourself inside but get
really good at pretending and still ultimately accomplish your dating goals.
In the way of "use A LOT of training to become A VERY GOOD actor, so you manage to fool people for one or 2 dates?" Or also beyond that? If so, how do you become that good at acting without that as your professional career?


but am not yet fully satisfied with my dating skills.
You talk a lot about this (here, and in your practice logs), but you never describe what you would need to be satisfied. So, what is it?
 Teachers like Mark Manson and David DeAngelo are showing guys how to feel good about themselves, which is NOT dating skills.
I agree that telling people to get a job, travel the world, read some movie critics (dafuq?) isn't exactly dating skills. However, making a connection from a place of vulnerability, honesty, authenticity etc. IS dating skills, right? (Although of course not all there is to it, and not a necessary ingredient as amply testified by dark-side-PUA)
 To me, this is the "mushroom culture" of the seduction community, and I consider myself part of the hardcore/pragmatic faction (lol).
You have some examples for the hardcore/pragmatic faction? Where do I find them?

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/27/15 9:27 PM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
Ryan:

And most importantly much of Mark Manson stuff are tropes about authenticity, but what does authenticity mean in the scope of the illusion of self-hood anyways? 


ROFL.  These are the types of comments whose awesomeness are why I am still convinced the DhO is one of the coolest communities on the internet!  But yeah, totally.  Life is what we make of it.  I fairly recently met in person with a participant in this forum (a different person from Claudiu) who told me "we know that we can create our own realities."  That has been my m/o... what reality do I wish to create?

My answer to that question, right now, is that I am still a young, twenty something, in the free world, and I want to be able to have a lot of fun!  And I have found that after these 'meditation releases', I am permanently able to exert more willpower and consistent effort in the directions of the fun that I desire.  

Everyone has a different reference point of awareness (something I got from the recent Culadassa BG interview).  There is no one, objective "good-personness" or authenticity.  Why not create your own reality, in both a causal, magickal way and a fundamental/perceputal one?

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/27/15 9:56 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
@ Bernd:

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same book. The last 4 chapter of 'Models' (about 100 pages) is all about those surface social skills. Also, "Bar none, fitness and fashion will do more attract women in a shorter amount of time than anything else." is a pretty clear statement which is exactly what you're saying.


Hehe, I may have been trolling a bit here.  I honestly didn't read the book cover to cover.  Manson obviously has some good ideas.  I do invite you to check out his little beer belly here though: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZv-3RUdpoY

If he was that into fitness, I would think he would be slightly more developed than that :p

What does that mean?  


Being persistent (in the context of approaching attractive people who are total strangers) means to practice not leaving the group until you are asked to do so, or until there is some other major, logistical blockage.  This is not a sensitive, empathic, compassionate, etc., way to do it.  This is for specific people with specific goals.

What does 'feel shitty about yourself' include? How broken can you be without other people noticing?


I was trying to make a distinction with an extreme example.  I am sure they are out there.  Most of the time, a guy will develop self-esteem and then quit pick up after getting a girlfriend, which is awesome!  But my point was that to reach a certain level of skill, one has to push, really, really hard (like much past the point of gaining 'self-confidence).  I parallel this with pragmatic dharma in the sense of not "floundering in lower stages", i.e. 1st jhana.

I do not have a direct answer to this question because I have not encountered an example in real life.  My point was more so an example to illustrate a potential distinction.  Overall, I know people who have had a lot of dating success, and all of them are, at least, confident in that area of their life.  But some of them, are more deeply, still insecure.  Just more data..  

Here's an easy test to check if you have self-esteem (which I'm not caring to define), devised by the Bread itself: Do some Metta, Mudita and Karuna for yourself. If any of these produce significant hindrances, self-esteem isn't sufficient.


So honestly, I am able to stimulate these affective/attitude-states fairly easily.  The more I feel good about myself, the more I can feel good about others, for instance.  Perhaps I pass the test, in this case.


You talk a lot about this (here, and in your practice logs), but you never describe what you would need to be satisfied. So, what is it?


Now we get into stuff I am reluctant to say on the DhO.  But I want to be real, so I will say it:  I want to know, from experience, that wherever I am in the world (obviously there needs to be enough beautiful women around-- so probably a city), I have the skills to "meet" someone on a given night.  This still involves statistical probability, but also involves a lot of expertise surrounding social communication and planning.  This is what I mean when I say "I want to feel DONE."  I want to be better than some of the 'naturals' that I have grown up around who have made me feel jealous over the years.  I want to know that I have reached a certain platuea of skills within this arena.  

However, making a connection from a place of vulnerability, honesty, authenticity etc. IS dating skills, right? (Although of course not all there is to it, and not a necessary ingredient as amply testified by dark-side-PUA)


Yes, 100%.  There is a time and place for everything, depending on who you are talking to, and what phase of the interaction you are in.

You have some examples for the hardcore/pragmatic faction? Where do I find them?


https://www.youtube.com/user/SquattinCassanova

Squatting Cassanova.  He posts full-length interactions, every freaking week, where he "meets" a woman in Las Vegas.  There is no more, possible proof than this.  He always protects the privacy of the people he interacts with, unless he gets their permission to include their faces or personal information.

P.S.-  (and not @ Bernd, but at everyone else)  This isn't about ethics, its simply about what works, a.k.a.  the way things are.  For people who have a very specific set of goals, this is the answer.  

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/28/15 12:42 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
The core of my critique would probably to attack the notion of authenticity then probably fall back on David Chapman's critique of protestant Buddhism and make an analoguous line with basically the self-help industry and its various schools of thoughts of which Mark seems to draw from, in order to do that well enough I'd need to do more research than I want to do.

When someone basically says get fit, dress well, be funny but don't try hard, get a job, etc. I'm not gonna disagree and say, "Smoke crack, be homeless, yell at people." When I say growing distant from, it's like David Chapman recommending a new Buddhism growing distant from classical IMS culture, that's a very tough thing to explain actually because you need to think yourself out of the entire cultural context you live in, namely secular protestant capitalistic postmodern scientific materialism and see the realistic alternatives to that. David Chapman thinks the IMS did a lot of good. I think Mark Manson does a lot of good, but ultimately it's a dead end according to my pure personal hunch.

I'm more or less in agreement with Noah and share his view on it. He said in a wisely simple/straightforward manner mostly what pages upon pages of overly fancy writing would merely repeat, and maybe (incorrectly) attempt to tie in bigger picture cultural influences. Maybe one way to look at it is to say a foundation of attraction based off of flourishing versus attraction based off of authenticity, flourishing by pushing the boundaries, appealing to what is cool, not authenticity and the need to find True Self and my True Intentions, instead a fractured self with many flowers on different branches versus a homogenous congruent One Self that Is Who I Honestly Am.

I think most people are so sloppy at socializing that unless they do thousands upon thousands of cold approaches (I have, I'm actually hesitant to admit! Best thing I've done besides meditation) they really won't see any huge ROI than what they would get basically not being a hermit and living reasonably well. In other words, it's not wrong, it's just irrelevent and a very particular cultural narrative Of How The World Is.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/28/15 3:00 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
Many posters here mention PUA as if it was a single thing, when there are actually several different schools of it. These schools can, as far as I see, be roughly divided into two categories:
The ones working with "direct game" (honesty, as in "hey, you're cute") and "indirect game" (actively showing disinterest in the befinning, using more manipulation). Also, most schools differ day game from night game. 

Without having read much of his work, MarkManson  seems to be a proposer of direct game. Do you guys know why generally don't trust direct game teachers? They're too good looking. How can they wouch for their methods working for ugly people? 

One school, which I consider more pragmatic, and has many ugly proposers, is Mystery Method. Could be the most indirect shool of PUA there is. 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/28/15 4:58 PM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
Despite non-self it seems obvious to me that there's still a bundle of conditioning (something 'dense') interacting with the environment (despite also the boundary between bundle and environment being indefinite). I.e., imprints, habitual behavior, memory, genetics, etc which can be roughly defined as 'who we are' in a conventional sense.

It's obviously the case that no matter how we act ('authentic' or 'inauthentic' in a conventional sense) we're always 'being who we are' in a technical sense. In particular, if one's behaving 'inauthentically' in a conventional sense, there's still some part of their conditioning that conditions that behavior so they're nevertheless 'being who they are' in a technical sense.

Still, there are degrees to which our behavior most naturally follows from 'who we are' in a conventional sense. This I believe can be fairly called 'being authentic' in a conventional sense.

If we further define 'authenticity' conventionally by behaving in a way such that 'who we are' in a conventional sense is maximally obvious, then I think Mark Manson's views hold, despite non-self. Indeed, Mark Manson relates (almost equates) 'authenticity' to 'vulnerability' which seems to follow nicely from this definition.

I'm interested in how you define a "foundation of attraction based on flourishing". I don't understand it. But, with respect to "appealing to what is cool" it seems to me that if one is appealing to what one personally believes to be cool that's being conventionally 'authentic' and if one's appealing solely to what appears to be cool by others' standards that's being conventionally 'inauthentic' (but still 'being who we are' technically, as above). So, "appealing to what is cool" isn't mutually exclusive with 'being authentic' conventionally, as I define it.

With respect to "a homogenous congruent One Self that Is Who I Honestly Am", it seems to me that anyone who believes in such a thing is already 'being inauthentic' conventionally since 'who we are' conventionally is an ever-changing bundle of imprints, habitual behavior, memory, genetics, etc.

An analogy comes to mind with respect to the 'pragmatic' aspect of PUA: One can learn all the technical aspects of playing an instrument in a rote way, but still be relatively unfulfilled compared to one who knows the necessary technique but plays for expressing 'feeling' (too lazy to spend time defining this carefully also).

We tend to read the same authors RyanJ, so I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts here.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 11:25 AM as a reply to Dada Kind.
I'm not saying Mark Manson is wrong, particularly in being open about intent. I'm saying his narratives and attitudes don't quite fit in a way that I can't explain yet. It was being exposed to David Chapman and Vinay Gupta that in hindsight that triggered this.

Edit: Now that more time has passed I feel like this post misses the mark of my intent which is an explanation of my growing distant from general attitudes and certain worldviews of Mark Manson, which is more about his blog and broader topics than recommendations on vulnerability defined as being authentic, which I have recommended as good. So I find it misleading in that sense, but its still a fun post.



Flourishing as a basis for attraction is my attempt to create a more inclusive narrative for the factors that determine attraction for a man. It's simply the first word I could think of as an umbrella term to capture the factors that determine male attractiveness. Being vulnerable helps, I know because I've tried not doing it and doing it, but it seems to be far from the only factor that attracts women, as Manson himself admits. For example, what does looking handsome have to do with authenticity/honesty? A fun study of the Tinder dating app which is essentially about looks tells us that looks, well, matter (Not that should surprise anyone older than 3):

"This study was conducted to quantify the Tinder socio-economic prospects for males based on the percentage of females that will “like” them.  Female Tinder usage data was collected and statistically analyzed to determine the inequality in the Tinder economy.  It was determined that the bottom 80% of men are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men. The Gini coefficient for the Tinder economy was calculated to be 0.58.  This means that the Tinder economy has more inequality than 95.1% of all the world’s national economies.  In addition, it was determined that a man of average attractiveness would be “liked” by approximately 0.87% (1 in 115) of women on Tinder."



http://worst-online-dater.tumblr.com/post/114619524524/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are

While online dating is not the same as offline dating, it gives us a sense that looks determine which men will get female receptivity. So we can say flourishing genetically, in the sense of good physical proportions, matters. The OKCupid study I mentioned in an earlier post shows unquestionably that women prefer richer men. Is this less a factor offline? Sure, but on some level we know this is a factor. But what does making 140,000 a year and driving a Porsche have to do with authenticity? But they're simply flourishing in a monetary sense.

Then think about the idea that Mark Manson says: "Bar none, fitness and fashion will do more to attract women in a shorter amount of time than just about anything else." I find dressing fashionable is more of a social signal of wealth and high class than it is rooted in authenticity. Vinay Gupta is authentic and he dresses like shit.

People don't have a natural drive to 'get ripped'. To quote Joe Rogan who in some way says the heart of my point, "Some people say they don't care what others think, and that they work out just because they want to look good for themselves.  This, of course, is utter bullshit.  If you were the only person on earth, the last place you would go to is the gym.  There would be no shaving your arms or flexing in front of a mirror, and no one would be posting videos of themselves on Facebook in yoga pants doing squats.

No. You would be alone at the beach, talking to a coconut, and trying to decide when to kill yourself." http://www.maxim.com/maxim-man/fitness/article/joe-rogan-why-having-muscles-building-sand-castle-2015-9 

The drive to be fit and fashionable exists only in reaction to dealing with others, not as a sovereign force coming from our authentic desires as aspiring existentialist acolytes. The existence of the other has enormous influences on our desires. To be clear, I think there is a complex interplay with personal wants and societal wants, so I don't think the extreme end of no self sovereignty exists. I'm saying mainstream cultural narratives of authenticity have an assumption of a discrete sovereign individual at it's core and on a conventional level this is still limiting as these pervasive ideologies influence our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. I'm clumsily groping for something more. 

So height, looks, dressing and being ripped are either a not a choice or a high class luxury that people wouldn't care about without basically being told they're supposed to care, but are the largest factors that determine short term attraction. As Noah said, "but the truth is that if one wants to attract beautiful people to them, a lot of it is just physical appearance, surface social skills, and being persistent in interactions." And authenticity just really doesn't need to play a big role there.

I think there is a place for authenticity, and it would have some basis I as you describe. But I suspect this obsession with authenticity has more to do with historical roots of Protestant soul searching than it does as a central component to attraction. With the notion of flourishing instead of authenticity, it makes more sense to impose on things you really don't want to do, like dressing according to high class standards or spending your very limited free time building muscles. My thoughts aren't very clear on these issues yet, but basically I suspect our current culture values sincerity to the point of pathology, and somewhere in Mark Manson's narratives is this imbalance of sincerity, whereas Noah is attempting to realize the self can be mutated and rebounded in such a way he can transcend and recreate authenticity in a way it is explicitly invented. That is to say, just as tradition is invented, so is authenticity. Noah's imagination creates Noah's self that is now authentic but wasn't previously. Mythology/imagination creates authenticity and authenticity creates mythology, but we live in a society that has exiled mythology and the imagination to the corner of comic books and what is left is being really, really sincere. 


RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 2:33 AM as a reply to Noah.
Noah:

Part of what I feel people need, that commonly is not said, is that you can become something you are not, and that you can do it ethically.  Meaning, a shy, sexually-inexperienced introvert can learn to act like a charismatic extrovert and become very experienced.  A person who has had many casual hook-ups can learn to be intimate, vulnerable, and giving with others and eventually have a wonderful, long term relationship.  A person with a balanced situation can learn to change nothing by becoming more optimistic and appreciative in their outlook.  In my opinion, society's ethical codes do not need to be the strongest deciding factor in how a conscious human decides to live their life.  Many people would disagree, saying that specifically going for casual sex is definitely tacky or that marriage and family life is definitely the greatest joy for all human beings (lol).
I think you bring up an important point, one that both PUA and more ethical methods speak to and that is that you can change yourself, not saying you try to act like something you are not, but there is a big difference from someone who say, is not in the mood to talk to females right now and so doesn't because he has something else he's rather do more, and another person who is not talking to females because he is nervous, doesn't know what to say, worries he will be shot down, etc.  In the latter, the person WANTS to talk to females but isn't and the things in the way are just bad habits that can be changed with practice.  Learning not to be shy and insecure does not mean faking something long term  or being something you are not (although yeah at first you may need to fake yoru confidence a tad until you get used to it).  It also doesnt' mean you will become or try to act like an extrovert by nature.  It only means that if you want to do something, you are able to go and do it, be it talking to females or not.  You may still prefer to spend much or your time alone and may still be an introvert by nature most of the time.  But you would not be avoiding females out of fear and if you wanted to talk with one, you would be comfortable doing it. You would be acting out of preference instance of insecurity.  
-Eva 

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 3:02 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
bernd the broter:

Do you think that authenticity (I'll define for the moment as being honest, vulnerable and without expectations)

Interesting definition, I would not define it that way myself.  I don't think of authenticity as being 'vulnerable'  at all.  I think of it as the ultimate strength, that you are comfortable and confident in who you are, both strengths and weaknesses, and so are not vulnerable, not worried about people seeing the real you, are fine with not being perfect, you are realistic and confident, which is attractive but IMO not vulnerable.  For expectations, I would say that you do not have strong emotional bonds with expectations such that you do not have strong fear of failure.  I think everyone has expectations/preferences, just that some are very emotionally wrapped up in their coming to pass while for others, they are more like preferences but not a huge deal if not met.  Will I get vanilla chocolate chip ice cream for desert or will it be coffee flavor?  I prefer the vanilla, but if I get stuck with coffee, it's not a big deal so I feel confident that I can handle it either way.  I don't like coffee flavor but oh well, no biggie.  If i initiate conversation with someone, I of course expect and hope that the person will probably respond positively and I also prefer that they respond positively, otherwise I would not have initationed conversation.  It's just that if that expectation is not met, I don't consider it a huge deal, I don't fear failure greatly.  Becuase I am not intimidated by the concept of failure, then the risk of trying in my mind is minimal.  The worst that could happen would be failure but if I don't think of failure as a big deal, then I don't mind trying something.  IMO, that is not vulnerability though, but strength.  Vulnerability is something that ones tries to hide for fear of getting found out, but when you are confident, you don't mind if everyone knows.   

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 3:27 AM as a reply to Noah.
Noah:
@

https://www.youtube.com/user/SquattinCassanova

Squatting Cassanova.  He posts full-length interactions, every freaking week, where he "meets" a woman in Las Vegas.  There is no more, possible proof than this.  He always protects the privacy of the people he interacts with, unless he gets their permission to include their faces or personal information.

P.S.-  (and not @ Bernd, but at everyone else)  This isn't about ethics, its simply about what works, a.k.a.  the way things are.  For people who have a very specific set of goals, this is the answer.  
There only thing that maybe has not gotten mentioned about PUA, the techniques as a whole work well with many women, but those women are going to be a certain type of women.  There is another group of women that will find some of the techniques unsavory.  Some of the techniques are fairly safe like being confident, talking to women in ways they like, etc.  But some of the excessive machismo, teasing, flirting with lots of women in the same room, etc may backfire for some of the women in the room.  And you will want to ask yourself if maybe if you want the kind of women that attracted to all that PUA stuff or the kind that maybe are less attracted to it.  They teach you with PUA techniques that if you try your stuff and the woman does not seem to respond well, you just pick another one, that there will be lots of women in the room that it will work for, but not for every woman in the room.  PUA basically is teaching how to get a lot of women that are of a certain type that respond well to certain methods, but it will not get you the other types of women in the room, nor does it even claim to.  Pua is about getting a lot of women and also about getting the best looking women and how to have sex with them soon, but what it totally does not deal with is what kinds of personalities those women have long term and how successful a long term relationship would be.  It's not about those things at all.  So Cassanova can pick up a woman quickly, but IMO he can only do it if it's a certain kind of woman that responds well to those specific stimuli that PUA uses.  LIke if you bait a trap with bananas, you may catch lots of monkeys quickly but the tigers are going to be less than impressed with your choice of bait.   

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 4:44 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
@ Eva:

Definitely going to reread both of your responses multiple times, but I basically agree with everything you said.  Good points!  I like the tiger metaphor.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 4:49 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
@ Ryan:


 Noah's imagination creates Noah's self that is now authentic but wasn't previously. Mythology/imagination creates authenticity and authenticity creates mythology, but we live in a society that has exiled mythology and the imagination to the corner of comic books and what is left is being really, really sincere. 


Its not to late to revive mythology!  This is why I practice law of attraction/magick.  Shit works!  

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 9:49 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
bernd the broter:

Do you think that authenticity (I'll define for the moment as being honest, vulnerable and without expectations)

Interesting definition, I would not define it that way myself.  I don't think of authenticity as being 'vulnerable'  at all.  I think of it as the ultimate strength, that you are comfortable and confident in who you are, both strengths and weaknesses, and so are not vulnerable, not worried about people seeing the real you, are fine with not being perfect, you are realistic and confident, which is attractive but IMO not vulnerable.  [...] Vulnerability is something that ones tries to hide for fear of getting found out, but when you are confident, you don't mind if everyone knows.   
I have no idea where you take that definition from. I was referring to this one, which is basically what you are saying about authenticity.
http://markmanson.net/vulnerability

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 3:12 PM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
I think we may be approaching this with different metrics. You seem to be identifying factors that maximize attraction. I think I'm trying to identify factors that maximize net happiness/fulfillment.

If one's just trying to attract the maximum amount of women, no particular demographic, then sure the factors are more or less what you listed. If one's trying to maximize net happiness/fulfillment then one needs a way of filtering for demographics and guaranteeing that there's a deeper emotional connection, etc. Mark Manson would call this polarizing by being authentic/honest/vulnerable.

Of course, if you're overweight, generally unhealthy, dress poorly, and have no money then obsessing over being authentic is unlikely to maximize your net happiness/fulfillment. But, if you already have your shit together (basically the first step in Mark Manson's recommendation) then being more vulnerable would probably maximize your net happiness/fulfillment long-term.

I've read the Rogan article. I think plenty of people exercise for fun and the functional benefits etc. I believe people do have a natural drive to move their bodies, to dance, to play sports, etc. That it makes you more attractive is a bonus. Of course, there are people who exercise only to project an image.

I don't think our culture values sincerity to an extreme degree at all, at least not how I define it. Why do you think that? I'd rather say that our culture is highly narcissistic.

Your whole last paragraph doesn't make sense to me. I believe you can, to an extent, creatively re-invent yourself, but only if that reinvention was already implicit in your previous 'self'. And, I think mythology/imagination can be profoundly authentic.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 3:49 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Eva M Nie:
Noah:
@

https://www.youtube.com/user/SquattinCassanova

Squatting Cassanova.  He posts full-length interactions, every freaking week, where he "meets" a woman in Las Vegas.  There is no more, possible proof than this.  He always protects the privacy of the people he interacts with, unless he gets their permission to include their faces or personal information.

P.S.-  (and not @ Bernd, but at everyone else)  This isn't about ethics, its simply about what works, a.k.a.  the way things are.  For people who have a very specific set of goals, this is the answer.  
There only thing that maybe has not gotten mentioned about PUA, the techniques as a whole work well with many women, but those women are going to be a certain type of women.  There is another group of women that will find some of the techniques unsavory.  Some of the techniques are fairly safe like being confident, talking to women in ways they like, etc.  But some of the excessive machismo, teasing, flirting with lots of women in the same room, etc may backfire for some of the women in the room.  And you will want to ask yourself if maybe if you want the kind of women that attracted to all that PUA stuff or the kind that maybe are less attracted to it.  They teach you with PUA techniques that if you try your stuff and the woman does not seem to respond well, you just pick another one, that there will be lots of women in the room that it will work for, but not for every woman in the room.  PUA basically is teaching how to get a lot of women that are of a certain type that respond well to certain methods, but it will not get you the other types of women in the room, nor does it even claim to.  Pua is about getting a lot of women and also about getting the best looking women and how to have sex with them soon, but what it totally does not deal with is what kinds of personalities those women have long term and how successful a long term relationship would be.  It's not about those things at all.  So Cassanova can pick up a woman quickly, but IMO he can only do it if it's a certain kind of woman that responds well to those specific stimuli that PUA uses.  LIke if you bait a trap with bananas, you may catch lots of monkeys quickly but the tigers are going to be less than impressed with your choice of bait.   
@Eva  good points.

And just a general response to whomevers,

Ah yes...   And what and who is exactlly picking up who.  Is the PUA really using techniques that work , or is the one being picked up actual the PUA, there are two sides to the same coin, it seems.

And to add, if one person is wanting to get another person in bed, fairly quickly, and both individuals end up in bed, fairly quickly, Chances are that they are repeating the same sexual patterns they have played out in the past.  Perhaps, for the 100th or more time, in bed , fairly quickly.  Over and over , each individual playing out the role of Casanova and Mata Hari, each one thinking they were in control.

And a couple other side points, all this interchange of biological fluids, with all due respect to the pleasurable, one should pay heed to not only the value of another beings personal feelings, i.e. people are not just objects to poke and pull upon, whichever the case may be.

 But, more importantly one should be aware of the dangers within the world at the microbiological level, i.e. the possible bacterial and virological inhabitors living within or on the person , or persons one is trying to get into bed with, fairly quickly.  emoticon

Maybe it is best to just be friends for a while, and relax....

Psi

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/29/15 7:01 PM as a reply to Dada Kind.
I think honesty/vulnerability/openness of sexual intentions is good advice.

I'm trying to say two things. The first being a general agreement of Noah's statement that most of attraction basically boils down to fairly banal stuff much of the time. Secondly, trying to view attraction, including honesty of intentions, beyond the standard western cultural assumptions of Authenticity/True Self.

My interests in the pathologies of sincerity can be summarized here: https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/ritual-vs-mentalism/

Which, because I am a fan of Mark Manson made me wonder: Does Mark fall into the issues of what Chapman writes about? For example:

"Reactions against ritual cause specific social problems. The modern emphasis on sincerity over “mere” convention, on internal states over outward behavior, makes the difficulties of ambiguous boundaries unnecessarily bad.

...

Sincerity criticizes ritual’s acceptance of social convention as mere acting without authentic intent; as performance without belief. It suggests individual soul-searching rather than the acceptance of social conventions. The sincere mode of behavior seeks to replace the “mere convention” of ritual with a genuine and thoughtful state of internal conviction. Rather than becoming what we do (as in ritual), we do what we have become through self-examination. Sincerity emphasizes “authenticity,” and each individual thus takes on an enormous responsibility."

and

"Sincerity and Authenticity discusses the historical role of Puritanism in developing the sincerity ideal. Diary-keeping and spiritual soul-searching were central aspects of Puritan religiosity. This presupposes a self that could be fully grasped, a well-defined inner state that could be judged: saved or damned, regenerate or unregenerate. Puritanism takes us on a trip inward, on an arduous search for the true, sincere inner self. Such an inward search for sincerity is necessarily never-ending, because the “true self” does not exist.

Unlike ritual morality, which is concerned with acts, the sincere form searches for purity of motives. This concern with intent has become the exclusive basis of much modern moral reasoning."

etc. And does this have any bearing on how to view socializing and courting as a subset of socializing? I honestly don't know.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/30/15 7:37 PM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
Andreas Thef:
@rich r a: Google Nofap and Karezza. You'll find a lot of what you are talking about. Yes, you will get much more confident and attract woman/men more easily.

Wow, there's a whole subculture around this:

"The attention you get from women with No fap!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHDqbrTX3hI

Subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/31/15 3:03 AM as a reply to Derek.
Derek:

Wow, there's a whole subculture around this:

"The attention you get from women with No fap!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHDqbrTX3hI

Subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap

And don't forget: http://www.yourbrainonporn.com
He's Marnia Robinson's husband. She's the one who rediscovered and wrote about that Karezza thing.

I highly recommed to subscribe to the guys RSS feed. He's collecting not only scientific news on the topic but also voices of NoFappers (called 'Fapstronauts') around the web. Every day he posts about 3-4 success stories from different sites and forums. The results are nothing short but amazing.

I personally restrained from masturbation for three months now and I see improvements everyday: deeper voice, more confidence, more focus and concentration, far less procrastination, more discipline and more energy to do things, less social anxiety, women start to get more interested etc. Plus my meditation has gotten deeper lately and my ability to keep up moment to moment awareness has improved (not sure if there's a direct correlation but I guess so). People report improvements even after months and years of NoFap.

RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
10/31/15 2:12 PM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
I came across the following:

“The purpose of a relationship is not to have another who might complete you, but to have another with whom you might share your completeness.” -Neale Donald Walsch

Another video made by Prince Ea is making its way around the internet regarding relationships, and he makes some great points that resonated with me. One of the main ones being the fact that you have to love yourself, before you can love anybody else.

“You must love in such a way that the person you love feels free.” – Thich Nhat Hanh

A lot of the time, I see many say “it’s good to be in a relationship,” or watch them continuously search for Mr or Mrs right because they feel lonely, or incomplete. I believe that if you are looking to fill a void via a relationship, you’re just asking for trouble. Sure, a relationship may provide you temporary happiness, but eventually, that empty feeling inside of you can only be filled by yourself. If we are to love, we should love when we are ready, not because we feel alone.

“You have been living with yourself for 20, 30, 40, 50 plus years and in all that time you have still yet to figure out how to be content, patient, happy, alone…. How are you going to create an environment that another human being can be happy in? You can’t do it, no matter how hard you try you’ll end up blaming your partner for everything that goes wrong instead of realizing your feelings of happiness and sadness happen because of you, because of how you have decided to interpret things….See most people don’t love their partners, what they love is how their partners make them feel, once their partner stops making them feel a certain way, they leave them. Marry yourself before you want to marry someone else.” – Prince Ea

Bron: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/10/30/video-the-most-important-thing-to-remember-before-getting-into-a-relationship/#

-> Love Yourself Before You Get into a Relationship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip_FehKz5LE


RE: Semen retention and attracting women
Answer
11/3/15 1:25 AM as a reply to The Poster Formerly Known As RyanJ.
Didn't feel like reading that Chapman the other day. Just read it. Nice.

The 'sincerity' he addresses doesn't seem the same as mine but seems related. As he points out, 'mentalism' is perhaps the better word.

He brings up good points about the balance between the collective and the individual.

But again, I don't believe this fundamentally contradicts my position on 'authenticity' in the conventional sense. One's participation in ritual, make-believe, play, art, jokes, etc will be a function of one's conditioning, genetics, etc. Beyond ordinary social rituals one's choice of rituals tends to be idiosyncratic. I believe also boundaries are crossed through the above as a function of 'who one is'. Anyway, after the rituals are over we still behave in the other 90%+ of our time.

Some of the parts of that essay seem questionable to me, especially "Ritual and Love". It seems to me that expressing love in any way (even verbally) is only felt by the other as meaningful if it's driven by feelings of love present in that moment. Making a ritual out of practicing the expression of existing feelings seems better to me.
How can we express true sincerity except by filtering it through the mere social conventions of language? How are we to know if people’s professions of sincerity are genuine or acts of hypocrisy; representations of their true self or just what they would say “as if” they were sincere?
Simple: our body doesn't lie.