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Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 3:40 AM

I have been reading the http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB+The+Three+Doors 

 i will now try to describe six possible combinations of these three aspects that create the actual experiences of the three doors. While there can be quite a lot of variation in the specifics of how these doors present, they will always fall into one of these basic patterns. As I stated earlier, these events are so brief and sometimes so unclear that persons who have been through them many times may not understand that they present in the way I describe them here. 


When the impermanence aspect predominates and is combined with the emptiness aspect, then the whole universe strobes three times quickly with something staring back at us as a minor aspect of that universe, and then it seems that awareness collapses into the space after the third gap, perhaps turning slightly towards the thing that was staring back. When the impermanence aspect predominates and is combined with the suffering aspect, then the three strobing moments feel wrenching, and the plunge into the gap feels fundamentally violating, like exactly the wrong thing to do. 

When the emptiness aspect predominates and is combined with the impermanence door, there are three clear and discrete moments of moving towards or sideways to (or perhaps focusing on) an intelligent seeing image staring back at us, except that there is nothing on this side. After the third moment, the illusion collapses in a very natural and pleasant way. When the emptiness door predominates with suffering as its second aspect, then a very strange thing happens. There is an image on one side staring back, and then the universe becomes a toroid (doughnut), and the image and this side of the toroid change places as the toroid universe spins. The spinning includes the whole background of space in all directions. Fruition occurs when the two have changed places and the whole thing vanishes. 

When the suffering aspect predominates and is combined with the emptiness aspect, again, the toroid thing happens, except that it can be quite distorted or cone-like. The universe can rotate up or down and away from us, so that the primary experience is of an image falling from this side, though with the hint that it might be coming back around to this side. When the suffering door aspect predominates with impermanence present, then the three moments in which the universe is ripped away from us are distinct. When the suffering door predominates, the experience is always a bit creepy. 

If the experience of fruition as follows: ? 
Quick three full pulse like movements then lights go off (awareness shuts down) and then back on... again... very very quickly... 

which discription relates to the above? or does it not count as fruition?

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:08 AM as a reply to ANNA AIYAR.
ANNA AIYAR:

If the experience of fruition as follows: ? 
Quick three full pulse like movements then lights go off (awareness shuts down) and then back on... again... very very quickly... 

which discription relates to the above? or does it not count as fruition?

Your description is not sufficient to tell whether it is a fruition or not.

But, if it is, it looks like an anicca-door fruition. In my case, the three pulses can occur in extremely rapid succession (consciousness is back for a tiny fraction or a second each time, making the three moments almost look like a single vibration) or with a slower cadence (almost a full second between one "blip" and the next one) but with the clear feeling that it the three events make up one single process.

What tecnique were you using in the lead up? Which of the 3C were you working on?

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:07 AM as a reply to neko.
MCTB:
For instance, the impermanence door aspect has to do with mind moments (the particle model), arising and passing, vibrations, understanding that from which all this arises and that to which all this returns, understanding the source of all reality, the universe strobing in and out of existence, and that sort of thing. When the Tibetans talk of non-existence, they refer to the fact that all experience is utterly transient (the wave model) and thus abides or exists not at all but is constantly in absolute flux and ephemeral. The impermanence door aspect relates to realizing what is “between the frames” of the sensate universe (formations), and it tends to have a “dat.dat.dat-(gone)!” quality to it.

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:20 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:

Your description is not sufficient to tell whether it is a fruition or not.

But, if it is, it looks like an anicca-door fruition. In my case, the three pulses can occur in extremely rapid succession (consciousness is back for a tiny fraction or a second each time, making the three moments almost look like a single vibration) or with a slower cadence (almost a full second between one "blip" and the next one) but with the clear feeling that it the three events make up one single process.

What tecnique were you using in the lead up? Which of the 3C were you working on?

mmmm It's a little different to what happens with me... 

I will try and put into words the best I could... 

Starting off with vibrations,,, then when the pulses occur even though it's extremely rapid succession, awareness is intact of knowing the complete circle of the pulses and then reality "shut down" and reappears.  this shutting down and re appearning is extremely fast.. first time it occured was truly a mind blowing event.. I was "like what was that?"sort of a thing.. 

and it does come unexpected... 

is it fruition... according to the books?  don't know 

I wanted to confirm with Daniel or any other person who has crossed it several paths to guide me further... 

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:25 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
 (almost a full second between one "blip" and the next one) but with the clear feeling that it the three events make up one single process.:

what is this "blip" means?  

can you see the ultimate reality in between the three pulses? 

 

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:30 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
MCTB:
 and it tends to have a “dat.dat.dat-(gone)!” quality to it.
the above sounds correct... though ... 

your thoughts?

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:53 AM as a reply to ANNA AIYAR.
ANNA AIYAR:
mmmm It's a little different to what happens with me... 

I will try and put into words the best I could... 

Starting off with vibrations,,, then when the pulses occur even though it's extremely rapid succession, awareness is intact of knowing the complete circle of the pulses and then reality "shut down" and reappears.  this shutting down and re appearning is extremely fast.. first time it occured was truly a mind blowing event.. I was "like what was that?"sort of a thing.. 

and it does come unexpected... 

is it fruition... according to the books?  don't know 

I wanted to confirm with Daniel or any other person who has crossed it several paths to guide me further... 

It is very unlikely that anyone will take the reponsibility of diagnosing you explicitly by forum. What you can do is read carefully this chapter from MCTB and compare it with your own experience:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB+Was+that+Emptiness

a couple caveats, though: the Three Doors do not look the same for everyone, and not everyone sees them with the same level of clarity.

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 4:57 AM as a reply to ANNA AIYAR.
ANNA AIYAR:

can you see the ultimate reality in between the three pulses? 

I don't find the term "ultimate reality" particularly useful. It is big-sounding as it is vague. So I cannot answer your question in these terms.

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 5:00 AM as a reply to neko.
(So probably the answer to your question is: No, I cannot see ultimate reality between the three pulses, or at least I cannot remember seeing anything that looked like ultimate reality.)

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 5:01 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
ANNA AIYAR:

can you see the ultimate reality in between the three pulses? 

I don't find the term "ultimate reality" particularly useful. It is big-sounding as it is vague. So I cannot answer your question in these terms.

oh what I meant in the term "ultimate reality" is where there is no one to realize anything part... emoticon 

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/22/16 5:32 AM as a reply to ANNA AIYAR.
ANNA AIYAR:
oh what I meant in the term "ultimate reality" is where there is no one to realize anything part... emoticon 

I don't know what to say. There are infinite shades to the no self / emptiness / no-agency / non-dual spectrum of "stuff". Those instants are too brief for a thorough examination of what is going on from those points of view. At least not at the level of clarity that I have at the moment.

After the cessation event, I have this a hard-to-describe feeling of reality falling back together into place, as it always was, or rather as it always should have been. Something has shifted a little bit in some direction. It takes time and observation to understand what has actually happened, though. It might take me days.

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/24/16 4:46 AM as a reply to ANNA AIYAR.
Obviously, the question, "Is that the Impermanence Door?" is directly related to the question, "Is this stream entry?", which is a larger and more important but clearly related question.

That question and related questions are usually much better sorted out by people who know you and your practice and have for years on the ground in person, but, given that this is rare, and we live in a digital world, it is better to have someone talk with you about this by video, if possible, and somewhere far down the list of optimal options for sorting this out is posting on a forum, nothing against dharma forums.

So, if you are interested in talking about this, I have time the 30th of January to the 3rd of Feb. My Skype name is daniel m ingram without the spaces: put in a request and we can try to sort this out, if that would be helpful.

Daniel

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/24/16 1:22 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Thank you Daniel. Will do 

RE: Three Doors
Answer
1/25/16 2:55 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:

So, if you are interested in talking about this, I have time the 30th of January to the 3rd of Feb. My Skype name is daniel m ingram without the spaces: put in a request and we can try to sort this out, if that would be helpful.


I have sent a request already through SKYPE. 

Thank you