Equanimity and next steps

Christian, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 4:43 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 4:35 AM

Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 10 Join Date: 9/14/16 Recent Posts
Hi everybody,

this is my first post, I hope I'm in the right category here. Basically, I want to know what stage I'm currently at and what my next steps would be. 

I myself think that I'm past the Dark Night and therefore (at least) in Equanimity, but I have no idea if I'm still there or even further... or maybe I'm completely wrong and somewhere totally different. Whatever, I'll just describe what I have experienced, what I do etc.

First, my formal practice is not really consistent - although I've meditated throughout the past 3 or so years, there were times (weeks) when I didn't meditate at all as well as times where I meditated somewhat consistently (but never really more than 30 minutes per day, regularly). My longest sit ever was, I think, about 90 minutes? But I guess that doesn't really matter. Most of the time, I do simple concentration meditation (breath) and maybe some insight meditation (without scanning, just quietly noting what is felt - I think it's called choiceless awareness?)

Currently, I can sit down and start concentration meditation, and I'll start to feel tingling/vibratory sensations (energy?) arising mainly in my lower spine in less than 10 seconds and my mind is pretty much calm. A thought may arise here or there, but I immediately recognize it as such and let it go. On a side note: I can somehow "will" (or "force") this energy to become stronger which might result in some sudden shaking/movement in the spine area; also, it feels like there is a blockade in my spine which prevents the energy (or sensations, whatever it is) to rise above my lower spine (belly button height). I think willing/forcing this is not the right way to go (rather surrender), but although this isn't the main question of this post, maybe someone can point me in the right direction here (what is it and how to go on?).

I do think that I'm quite good at informal practice, I'm very aware throughout the day, especially when I'm just walking somewhere. If I concentrate on it, I can make those vibratory sensations I talked about earlier arise during walking, although weaker. Sometimes when I'm walking in the evening, I just stop to appreciate/"feel" a nearby tree and I just see it as it is or as if it is new (beginner mind), again resulting in vibratory sensations, before going on.

I also am often reflecting - since I'm mostly aware throughout the day, I notice feelings and thoughts and think about why I have them and how I can improve them (if something isn't "right"). For example, some time (a few months) ago, I didn't want to do anything, I lost the meaning in everything. I noticed that and try to find out why that is or how I could change my perspective. Then at some point, I suddenly noticed that, although I didn't want to do anything, and I didn't have to do anything (student, not many lectures and exams far away), there was still suffering - some kind of fundamental unsatisfactoriness. Yes, I know this is one of the three characteristics. It didn't resolve my not wanting to do anything, though, atleast not immediately.

Currently, I'm not that far away from that level - not wanting to do much (still student, exams done ;) ), but I don't feel uneasy about it. It just is this way. If I'm riding the bus, I don't want to read or something, I just sit and look around. This underlying unsatisfactoriness is somehow gone. That's why I think I'm in equanimity. I can also somehow identify some aspects of the dark night which comes before it. I was a bit bitter in this time; sad because of all the suffering around me, especially because I saw/see how people put that suffering onto themselves by being ignorant. Okay, I'm still scratching my head about that ;) , but as a whole, I wasn't satisfied, a bit bitter about everything, didn't want to to anything etc., which seems to me like the Dark Night. The shift to equanimity feels subtle, but it's there.
Oh, currently, I also don't want to meditate... I feel as if I don't get anything out of it, I dunno. There was a time where I wanted to sit, but just now, I don't seem motivated.

I know stream entry is just around the corner (if I'm in equanimity or maybe further), but I'm not really motivated to go there. Or maybe I'm there and that's why I'm this way, although I don't know if that's probable given I don't do much formal practice. It's a bit of a paradox: I want to go on, but at the same time, I'm perfectly content and good where I am, and I don't care what label I can put on it... if that makes sense. I also know that stream entry probably won't change much (you know the deal: before: chop wood, carry water; after: chop wood, carry water).

Also, stream entry doesn't solve worldly problems (does it?). Still having a hard time finding people on my level (I probably need a sangha?), but that's a topic for another thread.

On a side note: I have read MCTB (80%), but I'm always having a hard time recognizing different stages. It seems like they are far more subtle in informal practice/everyday life than in formal practice, maybe because you cycle through them quicker with formal practice?

I guess that's it for now, as I don't want this post to get too long. If you have further questions or need more info to give me a better answer, ask away!
Otherwise: Thanks for reading! emoticon
neko, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:35 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:32 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
Hello Christian, welcome and thanks for your report!

It is hard to diagnose where you are at stages-wise, but it looks like you are working really well off-cushion, so keep that up.

The thing with the energy surging up the spine is usually a sign of the Arising & Passinga Away (A&P) or Kundalini. You might be around there.

I would warn you against trying to self-diagnose a certain nana based purely or mostly on the psychological side effects off-cushion. Low motivation or low energy might be caused by "real life stuff", such as not getting enough sleep, not eating well, not liking one's studies or job, and so on. Either way, what you do with those moods and sensations is always the same: Notice them, know the three characteritics of them in real time with as much detail as you can.

You might want to boost your formal sitting practice a bit. Not necessarily sit for longer (that doesn't hurt of course) but maybe trying a specific vipassana or samatha technique.

Samadhi / samatha -> It should be reasonably easy for you at this point to reach jhana if you want, by switching your focus entirely on energy sensations in the spine. (If you start swaying or shaking, do not worry, just observe it, it will go away eventually.)

Vipassana -> Why not give Mahasi noting a more consistent and systematic shot?
thumbnail
tom moylan, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:40 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:40 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
hi christian and welcome,
your practice sounds good but not intense.  that is not a bad thing at all but has some limitations.

one of the calssic hallmarks of progress is the "knowlege of arising and passing away", which you do not mention.  as you probably know it is not necessary to have a spectacular A&P but it does serve for most people as a pretty obvious mile marker on the path.

you may be a naturally talented contemplative and be in equanimity but i wold GUESS otherwise.  much of what you describe could be associated with the pre A&P stages and so its difficult to say whether you are in EQ or not.

one thing that can bring a lot of clarity to practice is a retreat.  it allows us to see these stages and repetitions in a compressed and focused format.

i would reccomend this or upping the intensity and sit time for a while and see what happens.  if you have indeed sailed over the DN territory with relatively little effort you're a better man than me and then the instruction would be to accept EVERYTHING which comes up during your sits with equanimity.

otherwise digging a little deeper, intensifying your vipassana will push you along more quickly.  if you are pre A&P this will probably become obvious soon.

cheers
thumbnail
tom moylan, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:43 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:43 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
..or...what Neko wrote :-)
Christian, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 7:59 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 7:50 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 10 Join Date: 9/14/16 Recent Posts
(Uhh, which reply button is the right one? That's only for the tree structure above, I guess?)

Thanks for your answers! I'll just comment a little bit and share my thoughts:
Low motivation or low energy might be caused by "real life stuff", such as not getting enough sleep, not eating well, not liking one's studies or job, and so on. Either way, what you do with those moods and sensations is always the same: Notice them, know the three characteritics of them in real time with as much detail as you can.
Of course that could be the case, but I'm very disciplined and happy about my life - I get enough sleep (~8 h), I especially focus on eating healthy and at same times every day, I'm ok with my study. I lack good friends which can really understand me and with which I can talk about "deeper" topics. That bothers me sometimes, but I'm not making a big deal out of it.
I would say I usually catch moods in my everyday life and try to find out where they come from. What exactly do you mean by knowing the three characteristics? I have read that often, but is it really as simple as "Oh, I'm angry. I know that this is impermanent (1), is not me/part of me (2) and will not satisfy (3)" (Although you could wonder how anger could ever satisfy, so 1 and 2 is obvious, 3 somehow not?)? Of course, those thoughts don't have to be verbal.
But is that really it? I'm always thinking there should be more to it... ?

You're both also talking about A&P. Tom moylan said:

one of the calssic hallmarks of progress is the "knowlege of arising and passing away", which you do not mention.  as you probably know it is not necessary to have a spectacular A&P but it does serve for most people as a pretty obvious mile marker on the path.
I have read about the A&P (of course) and I have not mentioned it because I thought it's a given (when talking about equanimity). Also, the A&P can be very different from person to person, right? To be honest, I don't really know what qualifies as A&P. Daniel mentions "feelings of vibrations in the spine", which is what I've described, but that's during meditation. So does that not count, or how does it work?

In MCTB, Daniel said that you're (most likely) past the A&P if you read actively about buddhism/meditation and so on, which I do for at least a year now. I've been fascinated with more "mystical" things (telekinesis and other stuff which might or might not be real) during my teenage years (I'm 24 now, so more than 10 years), but I didn't read or do anything about buddhism and meditation yet. I also experimented a bit with a psiwheel and one day, I managed to kick it off the pin, which left me somehow "woah". (Windows/doors closed, so probably not wind, but I'm still not sure if it has been telekinesis or if it was just something else)
I don't know if that somehow has to do with this, but since then I was always curious about more "spiritual" things.

I also have a memory from when I was 7 or 8 years old, my mother was talking to my music teacher (I played an instrument) and I got really angry because I wanted to leave and they talked on and on. And suddenly, about a dozen flutes which stood (vertically) in a shelf (and in 2 different levels) fell over. I only noticed much later that this could have been something else than coincidence, but I don't know for sure, of course. (Note: I live in an area where no earthquakes occur, like, ever)

Also, I sometimes think I'm "feeling called out and seeking", which Daniel describes as being past the A&P, but as with most other criteria, that is highly subjective and I could simply persuade/fool myself that I'm "called to something higher". 

Maybe you could tell me what makes you think that I'm rather in A&P than in equanimity? I guess that would help me clear this up.
thumbnail
Noah D, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 9:09 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 9:09 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 1211 Join Date: 9/1/16 Recent Posts
Fwiw, I also got a sense of the 1st 3 Nanas, up to early 4th, from your post.  They are like an entire journey, in and of themselves, with many sub stages.  I'm on mobile and can't quote line by line now.

However, I had another thought, which is that you amplify your off cushion practice. This only works for a small fraction of people, but there is a way to note with mental labels, morning to night, every freaking day.  It involves no subtlety but instead caveman like stubbornness.  You could try this for a few weeks and see what you power through to next.  
neko, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 1:01 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 1:01 PM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
You are almost certainly post-A&P.

You seem to have good equanimity towards what you are experiencing, that is good. Very good. It is one of the factors of enlightenment, isn't it?

But it is not necessarily a sign of being in the equanimity nana (formal name: sankharupekkhanana, knowledge of equanimity about formations). What would make it an almost certain sign that you are in the EQ nana would be formations, or at least a much increased ability to see the 3C in real time while on cushion. There are additional weird psychedelic / synaesthetic effects that are more likely to show up in EQ nana than in the A&P. So you seem to be missing the formations (sankhara) bit.

Also, the fact that you mostly talk about feeling equanimous off-cushion is a sign that you don't seem to have the kind of direct experiential knowledge (nana) of what is knowing. Also, the fact that it does not seem to be clear to you what it means to "see" the 3C in real time. It takes work, it will come to you.

Try having a look here for an alternative, more practical map:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/2472907#_19_message_1973107

Reading about buddhism or meditation is just a common side effect, not really an absolute diagnostic criterion for any nana.

Where do you live? Finding or forming a practical dharma sangha might be useful if you feel lonely about not having anyone to talk about this stuff in person.
Christian, modified 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:05 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/14/16 5:05 PM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 10 Join Date: 9/14/16 Recent Posts
Ok, thanks to you all!
I guess that means it's time to get back on the cushion emoticon

Oh, I live near a large city in Germany, I could go to a buddhist center.
neko, modified 7 Years ago at 9/15/16 8:12 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 9/15/16 8:12 AM

RE: Equanimity and next steps

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
Christian:


Oh, I live near a large city in Germany, I could go to a buddhist center.

PM me. Depending on the city, I might have people to suggest meeting with. 

Breadcrumb