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Advice regarding healing

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Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/8/16 6:41 AM
Seems I can heal pain.  I am aware that pain is highly responsive to expectation effect (placebo), but I'm seeing these changes in people who are very skeptical as well as those who are 'believers'.  So far I've limited myself to the treatment of pain, but would like to try some medical conditions at some point.

I'd like some advice from readers (especially any doctors) regarding:

- How to set up a practice in energy healing... [not sure what else to call it]
- How/where to advertise
- What to charge
- How to go about treating conditions that might traditionally require medical/surgical intervention without upsetting the status quo
- How to protect myself legally

thanks

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/8/16 8:45 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
No advice, but only the comment that I wish you lived near me. emoticon

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/8/16 11:39 PM as a reply to Laurel Carrington.
Laurel Carrington:
No advice, but only the comment that I wish you lived near me. emoticon
Can try here if you want, via chat.  I have no idea whether it works at a distance, but would like to find out.  No charge.  All I'd need to know is what/where the issue is.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/9/16 7:06 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
There's another issue I'd like to raise with the good folk at dho - that of consent.

From what I've read, it seems both common and reasonable to ensure there is consent for healing.  On the surface that seems sensible, but...

I often hear people say [for example to a friend who is unwell]: "I'm thinking of you" or "I'm praying for you" or "you are in our thoughts constantly" or even more specific "we're sending you love/metta" or private thoughts such as "please God heal Jimbob of his cold".  Often these thoughts are done without any consent at all!  Not only that, but I'd wager that most of the time these thoughts are anxious and negative in tone. 

And what about all the religious folk who pray for the millions of people suffering in the world...with absolutely no consent. 

I don't get it.  What am I missing?  Are there guidelines?

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/9/16 7:07 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
If individuality is illusory, then why care about consent when it comes to helping others (=your self).

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/9/16 7:37 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

...
From what I've read, it seems both common and reasonable to ensure there is consent for healing.  On the surface that seems sensible, but...

I often hear people say [for example to a friend who is unwell]: "I'm thinking of you" or "I'm praying for you" or "you are in our thoughts constantly" or even more specific "we're sending you love/metta" or private thoughts such as "please God heal Jimbob of his cold".  Often these thoughts are done without any consent at all!  Not only that, but I'd wager that most of the time these thoughts are anxious and negative in tone. 

1) It's said (and experimentally verified) that it doesn't work unless
a) the practitioner believes in the method,
b) the patient believes in the method, and
c) the patient believes in the practitioner. 

Related to the "placebo" effect, which, science bigots not-with-standing, is essential in ALL systems of healing. Can't cite the research myself, but a reputable and very well read teacher, noted that there are findings that a patient who doesn't believe in it, can resist the effects of pharmaceuticals, radiation, chemotherapy, etc.

Actually I could look up the research, but it would be a hassle. It had to do with a study (in Europe, France I think) which used 4 "arms" -- 1 verum and 1 placebo arm where the patient was in the dark about it (sorta like in "double-blind"), and two similar arms but with the patient in the know that some form of treatment going-on. (I may not remember the set-up exactly.) The bottom line was that the subjects (patients) who "knew" they were being treated but were receiving placebo (which they didn't know) exhibited overall statistically better results than the subjects treated with verum (real) treatment, but didn't know. (That kind of research is very unusual, actually forbidden in the USA -- considered unethical, for some reason.)

2) Supporting your second point -- the word "care", as in "I care for you", originally meant things like being disturbed, fretting about. That is to say, most commonly people's concern for others (in very mundane settings) has more to do with fear for themselves than interest in the other. A bit like the problem of using "love" for metta, where "love" so often implies basically wanting something for oneself.

Edit: Darn! I forgot to "reply to" the OP rather than a nested post -- this "restored" version of Liferay is somehow infected with that obnoxious problem that showed-up in the "upgraded" experiement -- the most recent post doesn't necessarily appear at the bottom of the thread.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/9/16 7:30 AM as a reply to Pål R.
The issue of consent is extremely important because it allows me to test to see if healing energy is real or whether it's a result of expectation effect (placebo).  I know a lot about placebo and I know that the most miniscule changes in a healer's countenance and demeanor can alter outcomes massively. It may just be that my extreme confidence is creating the changes observed.  The changes are very big at times.

My plan is to identify someone with a chronic health issue (constant symptoms), and to specify a date/time for healing without their knowing what I'm doing.  And then to check in with them to see 1) if anything happened and 2) exactly when.  That's the only way I can think to test this properly.  Of course repeated trials will be necessary.

Now I think I better do this before I set up a practice - that idea was premature!  I'd still be able to get good outcomes but I want to know how this works in more detail.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/9/16 7:47 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
CJMacie:


Actually I could look up the research, but it would be a hassle. It had to do with a study (in Europe, France I think) which used 4 "arms" -- 1 verum and 1 placebo arm where the patient was in the dark about it (sorta like in "double-blind"), and two similar arms but with the patient in the know that some form of treatment going-on. (I may not remember the set-up exactly.) The bottom line was that the subjects (patients) who "knew" they were being treated but were receiving placebo (which they didn't know) exhibited overall statistically better results than the subjects treated with verum (real) treatment, but didn't know. (That kind of research is very unusual, actually forbidden in the USA -- considered unethical, for some reason.)



That's a helpful reference, thank you CJ.  I'll just heal you of the hassle so you can find the link for me!  emoticon  To me, such an experiment reveals that expectation is more powerful than verum, which I agree with.  But I want to know if healing energy/intent can be sent/received.

I feel like my experiment (above) would be even more definitive.  I'd like to know if you have any comment on that, in terms of how best to conduct it.  Thanks.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/12/16 11:48 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C, Who are your role models in the healing community? What paradigms interest you? What traditions? What healers have you talked to? What books have you read? What methods do you think you will use to track progress and effectiveness? Do propose to work for free or charge for service? What modality do you use? What modality to you want to learn? It can be very helpful to be much more specific about your history, interests, and specific information you are seeking. And frankly, a meditation board might not have the experts/interest that a healing board would have.


Thanks for your advice shargol.

Regarding these questions - they are good ones because they help me to focus:

- No role models really, but I do like to follow these people (some of whom are healers, some are mentalists) - Lior Suchard and Derren Brown, Eric Pearl, Charlie Goldsmith, Bill Bengston, etc.

- The paradigm I most like is sort of my own, with a lot of borrowed ideas-  1) Minds are somehow linked via a non-sensory medium.  2) A healer can focus on a different reality and influence the patient that way.  3) Pain, illness and disease are physical manifestations of mental phenomena.

- Methods used to track effectiveness: I have considerd video but that could be problematic.  Patient testimonials can look fake.  Proper scientific trials are very costly and time consuming, and very few scientists are interested anyway.

- Charge a hefty fee which is performance-based.  I've spent most of my life getting to this point, and I have a lot of ground to make up financially.

- The modality is again my own thing, and consists of closing my eyes and "looking" inside the affected area.  I see colors, shapes, symbols.  I have no idea what those 'things' are, or even if they have any relevance.  But I take them and "remove" them from the area, in my visualization.  I don't want to learn a new technique, because I'm happy with this and have seen what it can do.


If you or anyone else can guide me further, that would be greatly appreciated.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/15/16 1:07 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
"I've spent most of my life getting to this point"
how did you get here? Any practices? Sorry I can't give you any proper advice. 

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/16/16 8:51 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
I'm a veterinarian.

You ask a lot of difficult questions. Good for you! In my experience, there are generally no quick and easy answers in the fields of medical and business ethics. The more I learn, the more I realize how complicated the whole mess is. It's an evolution, and a rather humbling one at that.

In my opinion, the most important ethical consideration in any healing relationship is aiming for informed consent: making sure the client understands what outcomes are possible, what is a realistic best case scenario outcome, and what could go wrong. Often easier said than done! 

Western medicine can be extremely effective for treating and managing certain conditions and less so for other things. Certainly, we have the capacity to do harm, and there's that saying about how if all you have is a hammer, everything you see is a nail. But for some things, a hammer is the best tool we've got.

The biggest problem I have seen when it comes to the divide between alternative and conventional medicine is that sometimes people refuse conventional treatments that are very effective in favor of alternative modalities that simply aren't enough. Often, they will try the less scary, more "natural" treatments in the beginning but then turn to Western medicine later on in the disease course when, unfortunately, the conventional treatments we have to offer may be less effective. This seems to be especially true with cancer, which is particularly scary and for which the treatments may be particularly dangerous. People (and pets) who might have otherwise been successfully treated die because of this and it is very sad.

I will be the first to admit that much of what I do to my patients is actually quite brutal: I sometimes cut off pieces of them! I do it with love and appropriate pain control/anesthesia, and the pieces are diseased and need to be removed, but nonetheless. I myself make a terrible patient, so I can't blame anyone else for being afraid, but fear often leads to people making poor choices.

If you are taking money to treat conditions for which there is good evidence that conventional treatments are effective, you are on shaky ethical and legal ground if you are offering the service as anything other than adjunctive. The best patient outcomes are more likely to be produced by a team effort, with conventional doctors doing their best thing and alternative practitioners doing theirs. 

What specific conditions did you have in mind?

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/17/16 6:49 AM as a reply to Pål R.
Pål R:
"I've spent most of my life getting to this point"
how did you get here? Any practices? Sorry I can't give you any proper advice. 
Lots of study (various sources), and practice, .  Plus I work in a related field, but I don't want to talk about that.  I'm useless at meditation - always have been.  But for some reason I'm influential.  So I can visualize pain disappearing and it happens.  But this only works when I'm in the right mood.  That's the enormous frustration about this - low mood kills it.  Depression is a big part of my life.  It just does it's own thing and there's no controlling it (I've never had any mania or hypomania).

Thanks Ann.  What conditions?  Anything really.  I don't like the idea of teamwork, because then no one knows what's causing what.  If I fail, I just admit it and cease treatment.  No prolonged protocols.  I wouldn't feel bad charging for such unproven treatments since most surgical interventions are unproven and surgeons don't seem to worry about that.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/19/16 9:26 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Well, it's true that not all treatments are based on good evidence, but most have at least some data showing efficacy and surgeons have many years of training and experience guiding their decisions, not to mention the support of other specialists and access to a wealth of published data. They also have a license that is respected by the mainstream public and legal authorities. And let's not forget malpractice insurance. 

If you are treating conditions for which you've not been trained in the pathophysiology, how will you effectively monitor response to treatment? And what about diagnoses; do you accept at face value what the client tells you is the problem or request they bring you medical records, etc.? Even the best diagnosticians with years of experience and every test available misdiagnose and miss diagnoses. The mammalian body is exquisitely complex, and as we like to say the patients don't always read the book.

Not to be a pessimist, but since I'm chiming in for the status quo I feel obliged to point out that you could get into quite a bit of trouble if you aren't careful here.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/19/16 3:18 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
I would like to try it over chat.  I live in London, England and have allergies/intolerance to various foods and multiple chemical sensitivities.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/19/16 7:08 PM as a reply to Chuhr Singh Nijjar.
Chuhr Singh Nijjar:
I would like to try it over chat.  I live in London, England and have allergies/intolerance to various foods and multiple chemical sensitivities.

 

I've removed my post.  I've decided I'm not going to do this with people I don't know. 

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/19/16 7:12 PM as a reply to Ann.
Ann:
Well, it's true that not all treatments are based on good evidence, but most have at least some data showing efficacy and surgeons have many years of training and experience guiding their decisions, not to mention the support of other specialists and access to a wealth of published data. They also have a license that is respected by the mainstream public and legal authorities. And let's not forget malpractice insurance. 

If you are treating conditions for which you've not been trained in the pathophysiology, how will you effectively monitor response to treatment? And what about diagnoses; do you accept at face value what the client tells you is the problem or request they bring you medical records, etc.? Even the best diagnosticians with years of experience and every test available misdiagnose and miss diagnoses. The mammalian body is exquisitely complex, and as we like to say the patients don't always read the book.

Not to be a pessimist, but since I'm chiming in for the status quo I feel obliged to point out that you could get into quite a bit of trouble if you aren't careful here.

Thanks.  For now I'm going to stick with treating what I know well, just in a different manner.  And I'm going to collect data (clinical research) so that I can back up my claims.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/21/16 9:19 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
That's a helpful reference, thank you CJ.  I'll just heal you of the hassle so you can find the link for me!  emoticon 


re: Genuine research on placebo and related issues:

Look up writings of Ted Kaptchuk,
http://tedkaptchuk.com/selected-publications
http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

e.g.  the article "The double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial: Gold standard or golden calf?"
http://media.virbcdn.com/files/5c/FileItem-112355-KaptchukgoldencalfRCTJClinEpi.pdf

He started-off with acupuncture / AOM – was one of my teachers ca.1990 in acupuncture college. Since then he's become a heavyweight, on the faculty at Harvard School of Medicine, doing now mainly "meta-analysis" research, but also participating in the design of very interesting empirical studies.


RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/21/16 11:43 PM as a reply to CJMacie.
CJMacie:
C C C:
That's a helpful reference, thank you CJ.  I'll just heal you of the hassle so you can find the link for me!  emoticon 


re: Genuine research on placebo and related issues:

Look up writings of Ted Kaptchuk,
http://tedkaptchuk.com/selected-publications
http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

e.g.  the article "The double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial: Gold standard or golden calf?"
http://media.virbcdn.com/files/5c/FileItem-112355-KaptchukgoldencalfRCTJClinEpi.pdf

He started-off with acupuncture / AOM – was one of my teachers ca.1990 in acupuncture college. Since then he's become a heavyweight, on the faculty at Harvard School of Medicine, doing now mainly "meta-analysis" research, but also participating in the design of very interesting empirical studies.

Thanks, I'm aware of Ted's work.  As mentioned, I'm very well versed in all the placebo and related research.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/23/16 8:05 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

- How to set up a practice in energy healing... [not sure what else to call it]
- How/where to advertise
- What to charge
- How to go about treating conditions that might traditionally require medical/surgical intervention without upsetting the status quo
- How to protect myself legally

- How/where to advertise

Absolutely best route is personal reference – people telling their family, friends, work collegues, etc. Also flyers at locations frequented by alternative-minded people. Volunteer to give informational talks at community senior-centers, church groups, etc.; maybe hospice care institutions. Having a booth and/or giving presentations at "Health Fairs" often organized by large corporations for their employees can also be rewarding. Sometimes health clubs, spas, etc. invite alternative practitioners to set-up informational tables in their lobby, or give informational talks, seminars, etc. Consider joining a business networking group, or something like "Toastmaster's" clubs, where one get training public speaking, how to do effective presentations.

Some forms of public advertising (like newspaper ads) can attract troublesome people, like bargain hunters. When one sees medical practitioners constantly advertising, the question arises – why can't they retain their patients? – "repeat business" is the backbone of a successful practice.

If you want to see how high-powered pressure tactics can work, look up "David Springer"workshops  – He's a chiropractor (the kind that runs a $500,000/month practice), self—proclaimed "black-belt" in promotion, who works out of Florida, but gives workshops regularly all over. Most any kind of practitioner can attend his weelend workshops and get good information (for relatively modest $40 intro fee), but be prepared to confront pressure tactics to get people to sign-up for formal membership / support contracts with his organization, at $5000-10000/year.-

- What to charge

Often people who work along these lines will get some kind of relatively easy-to-get certificate in some practice, e.g. massage, "life coaching", Reiki, "QiGong", etc.. Front the practice as such & charge along lines appropriate for those modalities, while in fact practicing whatever. "Sliding-scale" fees I think are legal and helpful for clients. Requiring people to sign-up for an extended series of treatments, and especially required pre-payment, is not that cool, even illegal in some places (and reflects practice based on a business model rather than as a service profession, though the David Springer workshops are a good place to learn such techniques).

One method is to compute a sort of "right livelihood". I.e. what is your time worth in the sense of how much time you spend at it and what it takes to cover costs, retirement planning, etc. In the clinic where I work, when another practitioner wants to share use of the facilities (using spare capacity around our practices), we compute it on the basis of what we are currently paying (rent/lease etc) relative to the time we spend and income generated, so that someone new would be sharing cost at a comparable level of cost/benefit. That's rather than just using real-estate logic: what's the going rate per square-foot per hour, day, etc.

(I use an analogous method, for instance, to compute what to "donate" to teachers at meditation retreats. Given the number of participants, and the (estimated) time and costs the teachers incur, what is a ballpark proportional amount per participant that would provide for the teachers' economic sustainability. I do that because my own financial situation is rather limited, but I try to contribute a median "fairshare".)

- How to protect myself legally

Never (publicly) claim to "cure" medical conditions; rather that one in some sense helps people in such situations to deal with it (which may in fact empower them toovercome the condition). For instance, cancer is legally treatable only by surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy; any other modality claiming to directly treat it entails legal risks. Example, from the perspective of acupuncture / AOM because that's the area I'm familiar with: Chinese medicine (especially the herbal medicine) can effectively, and legally, be used to support a patient's strength and endurance in preparing for, undergoing, and recovering from surgery/radiation/chemo (and many other kinds of treatment). The problem, and frequent scenario, being that such radically invasive treatments often do "kill" the cancer -- chalk-up a win -- but it just happens the patient dies of "side-effects"; in part because the Western medical model focuses on the disease "condition" and tends to use rather indiscriminately aggressive treatment -- not so much taking into account the variability in the patient's constitutional and situational ability to handle such treatment.

Another angle – to check out, if you've not already, the area called "medical intuitive", notably one Caroline Myss.

Also an interesting book to possibly look into: "What is Medicine" by Paul U. Unschuld( translation of his "Was ist Medizin" from the German). A fascinating overview of the history of both Western and Chinese medical systems over 2500 years, including all sorts of other medical systems and "arts" that figure along the way in both cultures, and reflections on the nature of both medical "systems" and "healing arts". His career was as director of the medical history department at the big medical school in Munich, and, as avocation, through his wife's PhD work on the history of herbal medicine, became interested in the history of Chinese medicine – ended up writing in fact a small library of rather substantial and scholarly books which have become the most authoritative sources on the subject. "What is Medicine, however, is not so scholarly (no huge bibliography, no 5-10 footnotes per page as in his other works). Rather this book is a sort of informal "brain dump", reflecting, at the end of his notable career, both his vast knowledge and his own personal intrepretions and impressions. Very readable.

RE: Advice regarding healing
Answer
10/24/16 3:36 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
Thanks again CJ, some helpful info there.

I've never really understood why people earn what they earn in any job, but imagined that it's the market that dictates value/worth.  What I want versus what I'm worth versus market forces... I know of people who charge massive fees and have very low level of understanding, so I just don't get it.  CEOs earn massive salaries even if company profits stagnate.  But I hate chiropractors - they have a very bad name around these parts.  No one trusts them, and for good reason.

Is a healer worth about the same as a physician?  Surely it depends on outcomes achieved.  15 years of training means F-all if you don't get good outcomes.  Maybe I should ask the market itself.  

I've only on a few occasions intuited things happening internally with people, so I don't think I have anything usable there.  Interesting area though.