Missing time? - Discussion
Missing time?
Missing time? | Doctor Avocado | 11/6/16 2:02 PM |
RE: Missing time? | Ben V. | 11/7/16 6:24 AM |
RE: Missing time? | neko | 11/7/16 9:42 AM |
Doctor Avocado, modified 8 Years ago at 11/6/16 2:02 PM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/6/16 1:59 PM
Missing time?
Posts: 50 Join Date: 11/2/16 Recent Posts
I'm still reading through MCTB (and will do so many times) but I'm curious about a few experiences I've had on retreats. This has happened maybe 3 times during intensive Goenka-style.
Typically around day 7/8, nearly all / my entire physical structure has seemed to dissolve into subtle vibrations (maybe what Goenka describes as "Bhanga"). At this point, some perception of fear of annihilation is common, but I can usually notice this as a ripple or quick pulse of physical contraction in the body that emerges in the subtle flow and has some resultant mental labelling of "fear". When I am able to notice all sensory phenomena clearly and stay speedy enough not to buy into the "fear", there has been the sensation of being sucked or shifted into a void like space. This feels like a very rapid speeding up of frequency of vibrations and almost a magnetic movement of my centre. I wimped out a few times but the first time I managed to let go when this happened, I shifted into a state of equanimity where the suffering component of my experience disappeared.
The second few times this has happened, I had the expectation of shifting into an equanimity state, but instead, time simply disappeared. The strongest example of this was my last retreat. As far as I am aware and can remember, I felt an accelerating frequency of vibrations then some sense that I was about to disappear then BOOM the lunch bell rang. ~25 minutes of missing time. Immediately upon opening my eyes I noticed that my posture was upright and fixed and I did not feel the grogginess of sleep. At the time, I wasn't sure if this was simply some strange variant of sleep (even though I'm quite certain I wasn't asleep) or some experience of jhanic absorption, but now I've also come across some discussion of cessation or fruition type phenomena and it's left me curious.
This was the longest experience of missing time but it definitely baffled me, other "blips" in time have been minutes at most where I've simply found myself in a new moment meditating with a sense of discontinuity in clock time.
Any idea what's going on here?
Overall, I think I'm shifting frequently between dark night and equanimity territory (sometimes individual sits seem to flip me back and forth).
Thanks
Wing
Typically around day 7/8, nearly all / my entire physical structure has seemed to dissolve into subtle vibrations (maybe what Goenka describes as "Bhanga"). At this point, some perception of fear of annihilation is common, but I can usually notice this as a ripple or quick pulse of physical contraction in the body that emerges in the subtle flow and has some resultant mental labelling of "fear". When I am able to notice all sensory phenomena clearly and stay speedy enough not to buy into the "fear", there has been the sensation of being sucked or shifted into a void like space. This feels like a very rapid speeding up of frequency of vibrations and almost a magnetic movement of my centre. I wimped out a few times but the first time I managed to let go when this happened, I shifted into a state of equanimity where the suffering component of my experience disappeared.
The second few times this has happened, I had the expectation of shifting into an equanimity state, but instead, time simply disappeared. The strongest example of this was my last retreat. As far as I am aware and can remember, I felt an accelerating frequency of vibrations then some sense that I was about to disappear then BOOM the lunch bell rang. ~25 minutes of missing time. Immediately upon opening my eyes I noticed that my posture was upright and fixed and I did not feel the grogginess of sleep. At the time, I wasn't sure if this was simply some strange variant of sleep (even though I'm quite certain I wasn't asleep) or some experience of jhanic absorption, but now I've also come across some discussion of cessation or fruition type phenomena and it's left me curious.
This was the longest experience of missing time but it definitely baffled me, other "blips" in time have been minutes at most where I've simply found myself in a new moment meditating with a sense of discontinuity in clock time.
Any idea what's going on here?
Overall, I think I'm shifting frequently between dark night and equanimity territory (sometimes individual sits seem to flip me back and forth).
Thanks
Wing
Ben V, modified 8 Years ago at 11/7/16 6:24 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/7/16 6:24 AM
RE: Missing time?
Posts: 418 Join Date: 3/3/15 Recent Posts
I don't have an answer, but I'm curious to know if you've noticed whether this experience (or non-experience?) has changed something in you. Do you feel different since this happened? If so how?
Regards,
Benoit
Regards,
Benoit
neko, modified 8 Years ago at 11/7/16 9:42 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 11/7/16 9:38 AM
RE: Missing time?
Posts: 763 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
Hey Wing!
I will not attempt a diagnosis, but I have some comments on what you have written. A couple clarifications and chapters to look up in MCTB specifically. Also things to look for in your practice to try and answer your own questions for yourself.
What Goenka calls "bhanga" is technically speaking bhanga-ñāna, the Knowledge of Dissolution in the maps of insight from the Visuddhimagga (and earlier texts). It is the fifth ñānain the numbering of MCTB, the one after the Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away.
About your missing time question: I would suggest to get back to us after reading the chapter in MCTB called "Was that emptiness?" and the one called "The Three Doors", if you still haven't. There you will find diagnostic criteria to try and make sense of what that was. With that in mind, try to repeat the experience using the same technique, and pay very close attention to what happens right before the phasing out and immediately after the phasing back in. Another chapter to look at is the one on the "Cessation of Perception and Feeling", nirodha-samāpatti Be honest with yourself.
Do pay attention in MCTB to the difference between:
1) Equanimity as a quality of your mind state, so for example as one of the Seven Factor of Enlightenment, one of the Five Spiritual Faculties or one of the factors of 4th Jhana. This is technically upekkhā.
2) Equanimity as the 11th stage in the progress of insight, technically sankhārupekkhā-ñāna or "knowledge of equanimity about formations". This is a specific stage encountered when practicing vipassana.
Most importantly, being equanimous about something does not mean that you are in the equanimity stage of the progress of insight. The Equanimity ñāna has some specific characteristics which are common but not universal: formations, speed and accuracy of noting, clarity of what is being noted (formations or foreground / background if still split), no strong energetic phenomena, and so on. Whereas you could, for example, be deep in (say) the Misery ñāna and yet muster quite some equanimity towards it all.
This is something that is not adequately elucidated in Goenka retreats IMHO. In general, the insight map after Dissolution is not discussed at all in Goenka retreats, only hinted at. It is a pity.
This is probably not the answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.
I will not attempt a diagnosis, but I have some comments on what you have written. A couple clarifications and chapters to look up in MCTB specifically. Also things to look for in your practice to try and answer your own questions for yourself.
What Goenka calls "bhanga" is technically speaking bhanga-ñāna, the Knowledge of Dissolution in the maps of insight from the Visuddhimagga (and earlier texts). It is the fifth ñānain the numbering of MCTB, the one after the Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away.
About your missing time question: I would suggest to get back to us after reading the chapter in MCTB called "Was that emptiness?" and the one called "The Three Doors", if you still haven't. There you will find diagnostic criteria to try and make sense of what that was. With that in mind, try to repeat the experience using the same technique, and pay very close attention to what happens right before the phasing out and immediately after the phasing back in. Another chapter to look at is the one on the "Cessation of Perception and Feeling", nirodha-samāpatti Be honest with yourself.
Do pay attention in MCTB to the difference between:
1) Equanimity as a quality of your mind state, so for example as one of the Seven Factor of Enlightenment, one of the Five Spiritual Faculties or one of the factors of 4th Jhana. This is technically upekkhā.
2) Equanimity as the 11th stage in the progress of insight, technically sankhārupekkhā-ñāna or "knowledge of equanimity about formations". This is a specific stage encountered when practicing vipassana.
Most importantly, being equanimous about something does not mean that you are in the equanimity stage of the progress of insight. The Equanimity ñāna has some specific characteristics which are common but not universal: formations, speed and accuracy of noting, clarity of what is being noted (formations or foreground / background if still split), no strong energetic phenomena, and so on. Whereas you could, for example, be deep in (say) the Misery ñāna and yet muster quite some equanimity towards it all.
This is something that is not adequately elucidated in Goenka retreats IMHO. In general, the insight map after Dissolution is not discussed at all in Goenka retreats, only hinted at. It is a pity.
This is probably not the answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps.