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Holographic Principle

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Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 10:41 AM
Is there a buddhist, possibly ancient, version of the Holographic Principle ?

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 1:03 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Yes!  Indra's net:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

"Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring"

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 1:18 PM as a reply to rik.
rik:
Yes!  Indra's net:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

"Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring"
Beautiful, but it has nothing to do with the holographic principle.

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 1:22 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Stick Man:
Is there a buddhist, possibly ancient, version of the Holographic Principle ?


No, because the Buddhists lacked the concepts of:

- dimensionality

- thermodynamics, specifically entropy

- gravity, specifically general relativity

- black holes

- quantum mechanics

- black hole evaporation

- information theory

- Anti-de Sitter spaces

- field theory, specifically conformal field theories and relativistic quantum field theories on curved spaces

without these elements, it is impossible to formulate the holographic principle.

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 4:00 PM as a reply to neko.
I bestow upon neko the highly coveted title of "quantum police" emoticon

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/16/17 4:45 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
bernd the broter:
I bestow upon neko the highly coveted title of "quantum police" emoticon


It is indeed an unfortunate state of affairs...



RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/17/17 10:45 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
Stick Man:
Is there a buddhist, possibly ancient, version of the Holographic Principle ?


No, because the Buddhists lacked the concepts of:

- dimensionality

- thermodynamics, specifically entropy

- gravity, specifically general relativity

- black holes

- quantum mechanics

- black hole evaporation

- information theory

- Anti-de Sitter spaces

- field theory, specifically conformal field theories and relativistic quantum field theories on curved spaces

without these elements, it is impossible to formulate the holographic principle.

Well, you can cut all the references to black holes
"The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics"
because they are a specific case of a general principle applicable to any volume. which might make things easier.
The holographic principle is a principle of string theories and a supposed property of quantum gravity that states that the description of a volume of space can be thought of as encoded on a lower-dimensional boundary to the region—preferably a light-like boundary like a gravitational horizon.
Thorn observed in 1978 that string theory admits a lower-dimensional description in which gravity emerges from it in what would now be called a holographic way.
In a larger sense, the theory suggests that the entire universe can be seen as two-dimensional information on the cosmological horizon
Don't buddhists have black holes ? What about nirvana, extinction ?

Aren't there event horizons on the path, after which something disappears never to be seen again ?
How about this, if the holographic principle says that the real source of any entity in spacetime is projected from information on it's perimeter then what happens to a person, post-enlightenment, who has no perimeter ?

Can we draw some interesting analogies ?

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/17/17 10:48 AM as a reply to rik.
rik:
Yes!  Indra's net:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

"Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring"

Fractals.

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/17/17 1:32 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Stick Man:
Well, you can cut all the references to black holes
"The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics"
because they are a specific case of a general principle applicable to any volume. which might make things easier.



I am not sure what you mean by this



Stick Man:

The holographic principle is a principle of string theories and a supposed property of quantum gravity that states that the description of a volume of space can be thought of as encoded on a lower-dimensional boundary to the region—preferably a light-like boundary like a gravitational horizon.
Thorn observed in 1978 that string theory admits a lower-dimensional description in which gravity emerges from it in what would now be called a holographic way.
In a larger sense, the theory suggests that the entire universe can be seen as two-dimensional information on the cosmological horizon
Don't buddhists have black holes ? What about nirvana, extinction ?


A black hole is a solution of the Einstein field equations. It has nothing to do with Nirvana.



Stick Man:

Aren't there event horizons on the path, after which something disappears never to be seen again ?

You are using the same word ("horizon") to refer to two different things. A black hole's event horizon has nothing to do with the Earth's horizon, which in turn has nothing to do with path events (which nobody calls horizons anyway).



Stick Man:

How about this, if the holographic principle says that the real source of any entity in spacetime is projected from information on it's perimeter


The holographic principle does not say that. It does not speak of "real sources". The concept of "real source" does not exist in physics.




Stick Man:

then what happens to a person, post-enlightenment, who has no perimeter ?


You cannot deduce anything on enlightenment from string theory because the two things have nothing to do with each other.



Stick Man:

Can we draw some interesting analogies ?


No, you can't, because you are not enlightened and you haven't studied physics, so you don't know what you are talking about.

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/17/17 6:59 PM as a reply to neko.
neko:
Stick Man:
Well, you can cut all the references to black holes
"The holographic principle was inspired by black hole thermodynamics"
because they are a specific case of a general principle applicable to any volume. which might make things easier.



I am not sure what you mean by this

It means that I won't take your points and objections seriously unless you have the respect to properly read what I wrote before trying to pull academic rank on me.

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/18/17 2:58 AM as a reply to Stick Man.
Stick Man:
It means that I won't take your points and objections seriously unless you have the respect to properly read what I wrote before trying to pull academic rank on me.


I did read what you wrote properly. The problem is that you overestimate your competence on the matter, so you are unable to understand why the stuff you write is meaningless. This is also known as the Dunning–Kruger effect

RE: Holographic Principle
Answer
5/18/17 4:16 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
Stick Man:
It means that I won't take your points and objections seriously unless you have the respect to properly read what I wrote before trying to pull academic rank on me.


I did read what you wrote properly. The problem is that you overestimate your competence on the matter, so you are unable to understand why the stuff you write is meaningless. This is also known as the Dunning–Kruger effect




No I don't think you really read properly what I wrote, but rather used your Super Critical Thinker Pattern Recognition Program to select familiar patterns in my writing in order to repeat the feeling of past intellectual triumphs. I must be a "quantum wooer" - Ha!, you know one when you see one, eh?! You've seen it all before, right ?
You're also wheeling out the Dunning-Kruger thing too, apparently confidently thinking that it doesn't apply to you.
If I were to use my own Super Critical Thinking Pattern Recognition Program, I would start to expect all kinds of "woo" (see, I know the right words to use) from you, because you are on a buddhist forum filled with all kinds of believers in the paranormal and supernatural. Hence you probably are a "woo" believer too.
Or maybe you are in that other pattern, the semi-psychotic dogmatic rationalist who sees conspiracy theorists behind every shadow.
No, I'd best take your statements as they are without reading too much into them or stereotyping you. :-)