What happens after stream-entry?

Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
I have been in intensive vipassana meditation for 2 months last year and I am quite confident that I hace achieved stream-entry as I have been clearly through the stages of insight. After having had various incredible experiences one of the only things left after stopping meditation for a while were: a sense of constant pulsation on my senses bases (and objects) and an awareness of the energies in the body. 

1) Do you think it is a sign of A&P?

2)If A&P is like "the non return point" do you think that it is the default state you are in after the first stage of awakening?

3) When you are in A&P but have low concentration how do you go around that to redevelop others insights?
Dom Stone, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 115 Join Date: 3/21/17 Recent Posts
Typically, after the review phase, the mind goes back to the first ñana of Mind and Body. During review phase however, it goes back to A&P until the mind has integrated as much as it can before it realises that there is more work to do.

1. While these experiences are a hallmark of the A&P, it is possible that it is actually your mind defaulting to more subtle objects. After stream entry, some of the coarser objects are clearly seen as dukkha, and the mind is no longer interested. This gives it more space to rest in the finer sensations that may have been very prominent during ñanas like A&P or Equinamity.

2. I think my previous answer addresses this. However in later stages of a path, it's common to experience A&P during many sits and during day to day life. You'll notice that these states have a different intensity based upon your concentration and applied attention.

3. A good way to develop concentration with A&P is choiceless awareness, mixing with noting random objects that could potentially distract (like discursive thoughts). Due to the flow of this stage, it should be easy for you to sit for relatively long periods of time. Inevitably, your concentration will take a bit on dissolution however and if you are too set on having a good level of concentration, you may end up either disappointed with the murkyness, or get seduced by the tranquility! Mindfulness is key in all this, with which you can balance your concentration and energy.
Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
It is a nice reply you gave me here Dom. Interistingly I have noticed that my general experiencing of phenomena has defnitely changed which partly reinforce the idea that I have achieved stream-entry or at least a manifestation of A&P in daily life, when I focus on rising and falling it feels like my mind seeks an object so 'fine' that at some point it disappears and seems to be resting on nothing. With your various replies I got a few more questions:

My experience has told me that when you have a good concentration choiceless awareness is really effecient to balance mindfulness and concentration. But at this moment I have really low concentration so choiceless awareness is hard to keep up with. What meditation do you recommend to bring things back to equilibrium?
Yilun Ong, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 623 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
What's your priority?

Speed: Find pain, forcefully soak in it unmovingly and transcend the suffering. (not recommended)
Balance: Samatha practice. The longer/stronger your attention capabilities can stay with a single object the better. You have pleasant states to reward the mind with, positive feedback loop.
Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
Really my priority is balance, I really want to develop concentration to eventually go into more insight practice as I just started meditating after a long period of stopping.
Dom Stone, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 115 Join Date: 3/21/17 Recent Posts
With regards to your mind appearing to rest on nothing, that is common with stream entry. If this is the case, and you are past the review stage, it's probably more likely to be a very 'soft' 1st Vipassana Jhana. An A&P stage will have objects presenting themselves to be observed effortlessly, and it's not till the early stages of dissolution when gaps between notes phenomena start appearing. 2nd path bears similarity to 2nd Jhana and so on. This is due to the objects that are dropped.

If you are hoping to have enough concentration to finish 2nd, this natural lack of interest in coarser objects should give you most of the boost you need to get there, it is on the way to 3rd when high concentration is a must (And probably my greatest obstacle right now).

Setting yourself an hour a day should be enough, however any more time obviously always helps. Concentration is fragile and it is FAR easier to lose it than work it back, so make sure to stay mindful during the day and be aware of when thoughts start getting off track. It's this automatic mind stuff which really gives it a hit. 

What Yilun Ong said with the feedback loop. It can take patience to start it so just keep going back to the breath and try keep the 5 hinderances at bay.
Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
I will try to observe things with the perspective you just gave me it will be very helpful. Interestingly since then I have noticed a strong awareness of thoughts and emotions and their influence on perception. Even in very low concentration states it seems to me that those mental 'qualities' are easier to note in the present moment than physical objects. I have 2 more questions about what you just said.

1)By 2nd path do you mean the stages to Sakadgami (once-returner)?

2) If my mind seems to be letting go of coarse object and seems to be resting on nothing should I just remain in that state and maybe be aware of whatever arises or seek to find the object of concentration?
Dom Stone, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 115 Join Date: 3/21/17 Recent Posts
Glad to have helped. Yep, Sakadgami.

When your mind is resting on nothing, could it be that it is instead resting on the particular state of mind, or perhaps on bare sensory information (without the thoughts that add concept to experience). I would definitely play around with this nothingness as an object. 2nd is more about the mind where 1st is mainly about the body. 

Resting on any particular object will calm the mind down which is essential to maintain sustained attention. if you are focusing on building concentration then this will not be wasted time, however once you are abiding in a certain level of calm, it is a good idea to focus on the feeling of calm or pleasentness itself. To try and sustain attention on a particular object trains the mind to do this better. This can quite easily lead to Jhana with some patience. You can Vipassana on this further by noting the mind that desires any particular state, or is experiencing happiness etc. It all depends where you want to go really. 
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Dream Walker, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Bhumi:
Interestingly since then I have noticed a strong awareness of thoughts and emotions and their influence on perception. Even in very low concentration states it seems to me that those mental 'qualities' are easier to note in the present moment than physical objects. I have 2 more questions about what you just said.

1)By 2nd path do you mean the stages to Sakadgami (once-returner)?

2) If my mind seems to be letting go of coarse object and seems to be resting on nothing should I just remain in that state and maybe be aware of whatever arises or seek to find the object of concentration?
In mapping out the process of awakening I've found that first path deletes the identification of physical senses as "me/mine".
Second path is about deleting the identification of thoughts and the mental echo of knowing the physical senses as "me/mine".

Be aware of whatever arises and if you find yourself wandering then notice and label the "whatever" that is arising. Tune into anything that seems permanent and you.
Good luck
~D
Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
Do think then it is possible to go back to the earlier stages of insight (like the first jhana) after stream-entry or A&P?
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alguidar, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 106 Join Date: 6/4/17 Recent Posts
Bhumi:
It is a nice reply you gave me here Dom. Interistingly I have noticed that my general experiencing of phenomena has defnitely changed which partly reinforce the idea that I have achieved stream-entry or at least a manifestation of A&P in daily life, when I focus on rising and falling it feels like my mind seeks an object so 'fine' that at some point it disappears and seems to beresting on nothing. With your various replies I got a few more questions:

My experience has told me that when you have a good concentration choiceless awareness is really effecient to balance mindfulness and concentration. But at this moment I have really low concentration so choiceless awareness is hard to keep up with. What meditation do you recommend to bring things back to equilibrium?

hi bhumi!

im interested in what you mean by RESTING ON NOTHING.


what happens to your attention when you re a this resting on nothing?
could you describe this "state" a bit more thoroughly?



thanks


 
Bhumi, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: What happens after stream-entry?

Posts: 38 Join Date: 11/23/17 Recent Posts
Well let's say I am gocusing on the rising and falling of my abdomen. When I sustain the focus it feel like the movement becomes more and more subtle, the awareness become lighter and lighter. It goes to the poont at which the focus has no object but I am still aware of thought that arise. At the same time there is a feeling of calm not rapture or bliss but just calm. At that point I have lost the rising and falling.