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Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?

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Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/9/17 11:33 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? D. 12/9/17 11:38 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/9/17 11:45 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/9/17 9:39 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 1:37 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 2:26 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 3:57 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 6:09 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 7:37 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 8:48 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 9:38 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 11:31 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 12:04 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 12:17 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/10/17 4:16 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/11/17 7:16 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/11/17 7:46 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/11/17 8:13 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/11/17 8:19 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/11/17 8:30 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/11/17 10:03 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/12/17 2:27 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Andrew McLaren Lewis 12/12/17 6:21 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/12/17 6:31 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/12/17 9:58 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/12/17 7:53 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/13/17 11:34 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/14/17 8:08 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? D. 12/14/17 3:56 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/15/17 7:47 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/14/17 8:51 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Bigbird 12/15/17 12:41 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/15/17 1:37 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Bigbird 12/15/17 4:11 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/15/17 12:32 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Bigbird 12/19/17 10:47 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Daniel - san 12/17/17 10:42 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/22/17 4:01 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/22/17 4:03 AM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Yilun Ong 12/24/17 11:45 PM
RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird? Adam M 12/10/17 6:04 AM
Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/9/17 11:33 AM
 Bigbird:
I was Cycling and i had experienced a well documented as rare and extreme Explosive Kundalini Awakening. They took turns either i was experiencing Insight Cycles or Kundalini Purification. They are very different. I feel quite fortunate that i was not exposed to maps etc, as even the small amount of information i encountered was either one or the other. Very confusing. I had to work it out myself. Luckily things were so extreme all i ever really wanted to know was that other people had been where i am now and got to some managable outcome. The three most helpfull experiences were a dictionary of spiritual experiences which outlined the agony and extacy all the purging, sensations, sounds, mindstates it was brief but on the money. Then came a hand made yogis book about Kundalini, this clearly outlined how extreme the awakening was and listed all types of symtoms of which i had the lot. This was very reassuring, as it defined my situation as extreme which matched my experience.The final one at maybe 3 years in when i think i was at my lowest was 3 or 4 symptoms and vippassana google search Mahasi's 16 stages delivered the way he intended. I only looked at it for a few minutes, just scanned it dissolution to re observation filled the gap. These 3 experiences were my lifesavers. 

I am very certain I am experiencing the same scenario as you, Mr. Bigbird. I've had fruitions occur with the Kundalini rapid-fire vibrations either tailing off or disappearing for seconds only. I've attempted to sit through the Kundalini many times but after MANY hours, they only get stronger. I have been doing grounding/somatic + Tai Ji Energy Gates + physical exercises + a lot more walking meditation - does not solve the issue and seems to make things stronger!

There are no perceivable blocked channels: all the chakras dance more than well except for the throat - paid least attention to it. The energy is running absolutely fine up and down everywhere - even the toes are vibrating. I have lost the aversion and cultivated a liking for it but am more than curious about what it is and what should be done about it. 

Anyone experience this as well? I have searched and it isn't helpful - it's unpleasant to chalk this to it being a 'cosmic' thing. Any free resources available to read will be greatly appreciated, as I cannot do online purchasing.

Many thanks!

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/9/17 11:38 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
I don't know much about kundalini, it seemed a little too scary,  but this is a collection of links relating to it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kundalini/wiki/links

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/9/17 11:45 AM as a reply to D..
Thanks Deepankar! 

Complete surrender seems to be the searched answer, I think I have done all the surrendering I can summon haha. I have laid with it till I fall asleep every night, waking up is bound to be accompanied by Ms. Snake flicking her tongue somewhere or everywhere... Sounds kinky but it isn't! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/9/17 9:39 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Many thanks! This K stuff is intriguing. It seems to be a common accidental occurrence, in the beginnng I chalked it to the cycles but it really doesn't seem part of the insight nanas. The stuff I have are nothing spectacular, the random hand/feet jerks at the most. The unpleasant bits are those vibrations, especially the pressure all over the head/sinuses and a weird drilling/rattling action on cranial bone structures including teeth. It is most active during bedtime, the closer I am to sleep, the stronger they get. They do not cause trouble anymore other than the K taking over samatha/vipassana phenomena often and me taking a longer time to sleep.

I can definitely appreciate it forcing a new level of acceptance/surrender from me but the questions remain:

Is this part of the cycles or is it a separate random thing that happens to some (I don't see everyone on the path experiencing this)? If this is separate, why aren't there better information on this? Most of the information I've found are mystical stuff that I find hard to swallow and on the other side, I see doctors/neurologists wanting to prescribe medicine. All I am doing now is watch them without the slightest intervention - surrender. There's not much I can do on the moral side of things, am doing the best I can... So should I meditate more or less? I see some weird exercises - not very keen to try them unless recommended here.

May all beings be free from suffering! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 1:37 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hi Yilun. My understanding (and please anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is this this is just what happens when you start to achieve the higher states of Samatha although others can get it spontaneously as a result of various causes. Not everyone has it. For some the effects are mild but for many the effects can include the violent jerking and buzzing etc. that you mention.

I'm going through the same process currently. I'm not too worried about the physical effects. Sometimes if I push it too hard, it can be really difficult emotionally and some changes in perception can be really startling. If things get too much I just completely stop all meditation and avoid doing anything that brings it on such as reading or trying to sleep when I'm not tired. I find things start to become more pleasant again within a few days and then I slowly get back into my meditation routine.

There are some traditions that put kundalini at the centre of their practices whereas others such as in the Therevada (I believe) seem to just regard it as a side effect of Samatha so it seems to be rarely mentioned. It is also very hard to get to this stage of Samatha without doing the extensive number of hours of meditation a day that is difficult to do unless you have the free time to do it. So it can take many years for those with jobs and families to get to. So you may not see that many people going through it.

I have to admit that I probably didn't give this process enough respect when it started happening but I seem to have learnt my lesson now. I've not had it really bad but I've got myself into states where I can see how it can all go very wrong if pushed too hard. That said, I think you would have to get really carried away with it to cause any really nasty damage. Best to be patient. Best of luck with your practice.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 2:26 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Also, in terms of the wierd exercises you mention. You don't need to do any really. You can just keep doing your concentration practice taking breaks if the effects get to be too starting as I mostly do. I have tried a few yoga type things such as the spinal breathing and heart chakra meditation mentioned on the advanced yoga practices site. I did find these quite entertaining after a while (you'll see if you try them) but I'm not convinced they actually helped in any way. But many people think they do. So you could give that a go if you like.

https://www.aypsite.org/

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 3:57 AM as a reply to Adam M.
Thanks Adam! 

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 6:09 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thanks I think this will benefit many others. I searched on DhO and found a few guys who left without answers. I sure hope they are fine now!

There is one thing I forgot to mention, I cannot enter into samatha jhana's anymore - I used to be able to enter with a willed in/out breath cycle. If I do that now, the T-zone sinuses pressures up and the fast vibrations form into thick, syrupy, difficult raptures that grabs the head. I am staying far away from samatha now. Something says that a limit has been reached and something hasn't caught up yet. I did try going heroic once and it was scary - it felt like I could really fry something by summoning the full potential...

I do not note any longer, all I do now is choiceless awareness. Wonderful stuff - as one ceases control of their thought stream, all kinds of memories/emotions pop up for re-experience and to properly let go off. Recommended for those with reasonable stability in their practice! 

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 6:04 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Absolutely Bigbird! It's taken me a while to work it out but best just to strap myself in, cover the brakes and let Samatha hack away at my last vestiges of materialist thought. Nothing special needs to be done. Best of luck everyone.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 7:37 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hey Yilun - just reread your last post. If the unpleasant piti is becoming too intense and you're losing the Jhanas, it does sound like a few days off might be a good idea or at least a sharp reduction in meditation hours. It may be that switching to choiceless awareness might be enough but for me, I normally have to stop all meditation not just Samatha. It's hard to do when you are used to spending much of your day meditating and it can feel that you're wasting your time. But with a few days off I always find that the intensity of the negative piti wanes and the pleasantness returns so you will be able to get back to the Jhanas. I just spend the time taking long walks and may be completing chores I've been neglecting.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 8:48 AM as a reply to Adam M.
Hmmm just made love to the increasing pain whilst doing choiceless awareness. I am getting pretty darn good at dividing pain from suffering! I think your advice is sound. I am going to fill my schedule with physical activities and stay off meditation for a few days to test this out  for the benefit of all. Thanks again Adam!

Edit: Unless Bigbird thinks otherwise. I am okay with the pain actually. Just not sure if it is wise to 'train' this way...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 9:38 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Yeah I'm actually taking a day or two off now for the same reason as you. The pain is not so bad but it can get a bit dicey when the agitation and temporary madness sets in. There's a really good story in Jack  Kornfield's a Path with a Heart. It's about this guy in one of Jack's retreats who decides to meditate for 24 hours straight in intense pain. After finishing he gets up and starts doing karate kicks in the meditation hall and tells everyone he can see a trail of bodies behind them of their past lives. He was in a very fearful and agitated state. Jack deals with it by getting the guy to go out jogging, have frequent hot baths and getting him to eat hamburgers. Apparently after 3 days he could start some light meditation again. Well, if you can get away with that then I think us relatively sensible people should be fine.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 11:31 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
To be frank, I do not expect relief as I have complete expectations for this to have a life of its own and that the only way is acceptance. I did get a fruition 12 hours ago in the day (totally unexpected - was sitting just to go with whatever comes. This lack of expectation, total surrender (including letting thoughts flow) may be useful info for those shooting for fruitions), the bliss wave was a relief for a short while and a few mixed repeats (pain/bliss) thereafter when I was simply trying to nap. I tested samatha quickly and it signalled no go (expected). I am fine to go either way (it's a monk's job!), but break or no break, bedtime is going to be K time, either way... (Any attempted sits at night is all K - no nanas in sight)

A. Rest - if it recovers, we can perhaps conclude that some nerves were damaged and were repaired by resting - thus recommended course.
B. Ignore - if it recovers by itself nonetheless, then others could choose to push on smartly too?

We can't test B if we do A. So perhaps B longer till alarm bells ring louder? 

I think this information might be valuable as reference so let's keep the diagnosis and information going?

Much Metta to you and Adam! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 12:04 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Yes. let us know how it goes. For me it was the emotional stuff that I couldn't handle e.g. fear, agitation, sadness etc that came after the physical pain. When the energy gets very intense, everything seems to set it off not just meditation but just trying to sleep or reading a book. At one point I got into a little bit of a panic because I thought that the process was spiralling out of control and I couldn't stop it. But it was all fine. You've always got the option to take a break for a few days and that will resolve any problems whether you take it now or in the future. You do have control over the brakes if not much else.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 12:17 PM as a reply to Adam M.
Thanks Adam! Let's go with pushing on till it seems too crazy or it will stop me anyhow. I do not have any emotions attached to it now, so it's just pain. I have found it a good training to separate pain from suffering.

Gonna go sit till I fall asleep or go for alms in 3 hours...

Love to ALL! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/10/17 4:16 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Very happy to report that after a long period of varying pain ~2 hours, some scary stuff (seems like it is trying to blow up my ear drum) that I had to conjure some reasoning (for the benefit of other beings) to douse the fear, there was a state of total pleasant vibrations and a sense of release/relief. I continued nonetheless and some less painful stuff came back and is still going on off-cushion but it bothers much less. It doesn't seem like K has a cessation event - if one buys the purification theory, then there is more to clean up.

Samatha attempt still painful but less. Will attempt longer K sits next time.

Gotta stop and head out but 3 main things if anyone wants to try:

1. Separate pain from suffering - it is possible. Surrender and relax body.
2. Face the emotions and conquer them. Courage - it probably can't do any damage.
3. Metta to self/for the benefit of others when necessary.

Going Heroic mode may be an option emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 7:16 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thanks Bigbird. Yes it does not have a cessation (up till now). The TV show analogy is what it is like. It has been mostly pleasant when meditating during the day after last night. It is still buzzing now (at night), but kind of like in a neutral manner in the background. My questions are involving what they are and why some people experience this outside of the insight cycles.
You asked is this what its going to be like from now on? This is not about Samatha, Jhanna or meditation. You misunderstood.
 I can recognise the parts that were unpleasant, but it seems to involve memory. If i didn't have the memory im not sure if i could identify things as unpleasant. I guess i could pick the unpleasant one based on its vibration. Maybe thats what they meant. This seems to be evolving. Its very noticable with both physical and mental pain. The outcomes are alot more profound than i expected. 

I guess there is no clear answer to that but this K thing really does seem to be clearing blockages. I can only say that the front channels are flowing well like an arc instead of vibrating violently in the past. I think using choiceless awareness as meditation to push their progress is possible though.

And this topic is mostly for people for unfortunately (or fortunately) step into this K arena. So for those avoiding it, if you are in a good place, facing them fully and it seems that 'progress' or 'relief' can be had. The pain/fear may be worse than the Insight cycles but the way to deal with them is no different from Vipassana techniques of letting go completely. I will continue to push and update...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 7:46 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hey Yilun - This is definitely Samatha, it's just the process you go through when concentration reaches high levels. You have got to watch the fear. It can turn into paranioa and turn you a little crazy. Please be careful with this. It can turn really nasty. But the fact you're having postivie sensations and are progressing with the chakras etc. is a good sign. Maybe you'll avoid the really rough stuff.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 8:13 AM as a reply to Adam M.
Hi Adam, you mean this K thingy is part of samatha progress? 

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 8:19 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Yes - it occurs when you reach the really high levels of Samatha. It's really hard to get to and so you normally need to meditate for hours a day to get to it. The intensity varies from person to person but it seems normally to be pretty intense for most people.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 8:30 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
When you get to this stage of Samatha, you can often only push it so fast. If you do lot's of meditation at this stage then these very scary and negative things can happen. The only way to deal with this is to stop meditating and take a break for a few days. After then the negative states diminish and more postive states occur. After you take a break and start meditating again, you may be surprised how far you have come and find the meditation very pleasant.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/11/17 10:03 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thanks Bigbird! Let me explain the 3 kinds of meditation that have been doing, it is all basically varying degrees of "Do Nothing"

1. Mindstream: Really drop all control - mind can daydream, sing, etc. if it wants. Attention goes where it wants.
2. Silence: I silence the mind, all else equal - no control. Attention when not guided, usually stays wide - it is aware of all, not focused on any. It will go to pain automatically though.
3. Lucid Dreaming: Keep dropping effort slowly into lucid sleep. This usually ends up with me watching myself snore and observe whatever comes next.

I do not see any difference to your directions from (2.) other than to direct attention to the subtlest sensations. I can do this today and report back. Is this supposed to increase concentration capabilities?

I can feel that it is 'seemingly' clearing blockages, 5 elements are clear as sky, feet/hands/3rd eye/crown can be felt shooting energy outwards -  energy leaving the body? Although it may seem to be, same as with whatever it is doing, I do not conceptualize what the energy is up to. I watch on a pure sensate level only. I would go crazy if I were to sit and expect answers to all the stuff that happens during the K sits, some of them:

1. 2 hands with 10+ fingers on each hand working on my head, I can feel and see them with eyes open in very low light.
2. Itch. These even results in actual red sores to deal with for days after. (Some call it K removing toxins)
3. Drilling, shifting plates, pressure on all bones in the head. (Some call it K expanding the skull to fit more brain)
4. Heat/cold/electrical currents/energy in all kinds of places. I believe they have covered the whole body.
5. All kinds of mental images that I ignore mostly. I did play around some in the past, e.g. if I see an eye or house or nature, I can get them to repeat, increase in clarity, diversity, numbers, speed, size, etc. This can go on for a very long time.
6. There's really too many other stuff. The above happen all the time.

I do not have any mental contents other than very simplistic images that do not relate specifically to my past life. The thoughts/emotions relating to the past only occurs in dreams lucid or otherwise. I think I see a pattern, this K thing will do what it wants, when it wants. But one can 'guide' it along, by sitting longer for it to complete what it wants and totally accepting the pain/unpleasantness. e.g. last night I could sleep with it doing its thing but I stayed until it becomes stable from all its activities (static vibrations with no 'agenda') - that is a good 2-3 hour. I am pretty sure had I gone to sleep, it could not have kept up that pace.

The insight I have is acceptance - what is going on last sit vs a few days ago is no different. The only difference is the pain seems way less and does not go near being associated with suffering. 

I do not think there is a danger of freaking out at this point, just how best to coach this thing along and how others have good information to work with, any emotions toward K is a reaction, not a response and thus should be seen and abandoned...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/12/17 2:27 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thanks Bigbird & Adam. Sincere gratitude for contributing, great to know I am not alone here ha!

I have no idea where this is heading and there really is nothing to do but not hide/run and simply LET GO. Those who stumbled here: judge your own mental capacity to actively participate in the let go process, progress with care and self-wisdom. Will update for the benefit of people who come across such places.

Wishing metta to all! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/12/17 6:21 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
I used to be a member of a spiritual group called Subud. As far as I can see, what happens in Subud is the same as kundalini awakening, although they don't know that because Subud was started by a Muslim Indonesian called Bapak. Some members have had problems controlling this powerful force the call the 'Latihan', and something written by one member is very interesting.

He found a method of 'deactivating' it so that he was able to continue to live his life, although he doesn't go into much detail. This is what he writes:
I’ve had to learn the hard way how to ‘deactivate’[8] my Latihan when things get too intense, and the techniques for doing so have not come from Bapak or the helpers, but from western Hermetic tradition.

To me, the vestigial symptoms of my susceptibility to Latihan can be a bloody nuisance, and I can well understand how some long-term Subud members have come to feel ‘trapped’ by their Latihans. Once turned on, it’s hard to turn off, but unless you truly have control of the off-switch, it seems to me that you cannot be said to be exercising free will when you practice Latihan.

and then in notes:
8. ‘Deactivating’ a Latihan: the technique is basic and straightforward, but one may have to be persistent at first. Once opened, I think you can only make a Latihan dormant; a certain degree of hypersensitivity will always remain.




 

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/12/17 6:31 AM as a reply to Andrew McLaren Lewis.
Thanks Andrew. He made a good point of K vs free will. Read/googled and couldn't find any method for deactivating latihan though... emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/12/17 9:58 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hahaha...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/12/17 7:53 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thank you very much Bigbird!  Kundalini = True Self = Awareness?  

Mind + Body = No self/Not self

Any specific things to prepare? There's stuff to deal with I'm sure on an ongoing basis - had a 2 hour sit last night and similar fear phenomenon occurred  (like snapping my nose bridge).

Will continue to face it fully...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/13/17 11:34 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
I think I wasn't clear, perhaps some bad jokes were lost in the midst. First of all I am not the least bit superstitious, so the lack of explanation of this phenomenon bugs me. No I do not believe in the mystical stuff, however one may call the snake haha. This has to do with something and so far I have nothing, which is fine as I am working on it the exact same way as if it were the (never-ending) Dark Night.

Fear - this is something that I sense, which is nowhere near going bat-shit-crazy. Imagine a large force pulling at your ear drum, nose bridge, eye and it feels like snapping? Fear arises naturally as a bodily reaction? I sense it and calm it down.

Hands massaging face: they are there without fail, clear as sky. They are part of the mental formations - that's the only explanation I have.

Practice is pure observation, I do not look for anything ever. Whatever is there is there. If there is pleasure, I do not soak in it and forget my job to observe. I keep equi-distance to unpleasantness and actually explore going closer to pain.

I am wary to do anything about it other than
(1) continuing to meditate and observe it, or
(2) stop meditating till it goes away: 
As this K is a possibility of over/wrong meditation, stopping meditation to let it heal or revert to normalcy could be the solution, no? Have you tried to stop or reduce mental activity?

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/14/17 8:08 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Meditation Timeline (DD/MM/YY):

~12/6/17: Meditation begins daily in Wat Doi In Cee
x/7/17: An event that seems to be Stage 1: Mind & Body
8/7/17: Strange event lasting > 1/2 hour: from google searches - this is the 1st Kundalini awakening (near death experience)
I was meditating till my breath became very subtle, then my chest tightened and breathing seemed to be shallow but tight. A question popped in my head – Are you afraid of death? I replied mentally – Well, honestly yes. I could not note any breathing – it is possible that I might have mentally decided to either stop breathing or see what happens when I do not note my breath by not willing it to breathe.I started to hyperventilate. What happened?
8/8/17: Looking back this seems like my 1st A&P:
I was doing walking meditation an hour before the evening chanting started. I switched to standing and a light appeared from the top right hand corner of my 'vision'. I concentrated on it and it became brighter and brighter - it seems to be yellow in colour. The scene changed to one seemingly like a planet with the light becoming the sun of it. The planet moved forward with varying speeds, slowing down at times. Some were of greenery, some brown hay like, some old crumbling structures. My eyes were twitching very quickly as the scenes changed. I remember noting impermanence. Shortly after the scene seemed to stagger frame by frame, then the planet became like a book and started to flip backwards in time. Time resumed in the forward direction and the sun became so bright I started to squint physically my right eye and then both. The keeps setting from right to left in numerous sequences. My eyes physically following it. The scene changed to one of one that is swirling. There is a view from space on a planet with life (greenery). It kept spinning and it then enters a wormhole. The light remains and varies in intensity but remained very very bright, I had to squint countless times, I could not control my eyelids from not doing so. It entered some kind of ancient ruins. The light slowly evolving into the brightest ever to the point the eyes could not handle and it became a golden statue of the Buddha emanating strong light. It grew in size and presence. It became smaller then it started to spin backwards, becoming diffferent buddhas of different forms and colours. I am not sure if they are the same buddha. Not sure how many as well. The ruins on the left changed somewhat. I tried to change the colour of gold light to blue, red and green. All that does is bleed slightly and the gold consumed it back and shone brighter. The Buddha then revolved around my head, changing to a light (bright and sun-like). The scene changed to one in a distant planet. There was a majectic golden throne like chair, someone appeared to sit on it. Then the planet started to revolve backwards away from me and I can see many chairs, kind of lined up, different colours, some colors noted were sliver,  golden, black. Hundreds maybe thousands or more of them, I cannot count. During this time (reality) many monks are starting to come into the hall. I could hear them talking and making loud noises but I could not be bothered to focus on them. The scene changed to one of a Buddha statue standing and holding his palm outwards. I struggled for awhile to find my voice and i asked mentally if this is my imagination.  There were the words NO coming out visually from his mouth. I asked again twice. Then I tried to visualize the words as yes. There are a few of them coming out as YES but resumed NO in a more forceful and numerically superior manner. The Buddha statue's mouth extended and it looked liked it became a horn whilst spouting  NO's. There was some quietness and the sun on the right receded in intensity and the scene changed to a purple hue with eyes converging to one eye. It blinked and focused on me. It asked me to go a few times. I reluctantly tried, then I felt the floor tilt upwards so much that I had to tilt my body forward to stay standing. I am unsure if I really did that physically but it was a very strong force. I asked how do I get out and a Buddha statue appeared and swiped the scene to one closely resembling my reality. I struggled for a few moments before I could pull out just as the head monk was getting ready into position to begin the chants. This is all very unreal? Surreal? A figment of my imaginations? It all seemed so very real. I left the chanting halfway to type this on my phone, worrying I might forget, I did forget many of the scenes though. I swear on my life I am not making this up. But in retrospect the scenes do resemble the knowledge I have on the teachings and history! What is this?
10/9/17: assumed Equanimity: See this whole thread: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/6668994
Looking back, these very fast vibrations could be the K phenomenon mixed in with Insight Stage Equanimity; or A&P now that Daniel brought this up.
12/9/17: 1st off cushion K thingy, repeats a few other nights: Pockets of heat. Weird aches everywhere. No big deal.
A very weird thing happened last night, I was falling asleep and there were moving vibrations around 10Hz first starting around my head and persisted to chest and limbs, basically all over the body. It seems to show clearly the idea the body is made up of tiny, vibrating, wave-like molecules. It went on for more than an hour, nothing happened other than these vibrations changing in locations. They persisted whatever I tried to get rid of it, sitting, moving around, till I get really tired and went to sleep with the vibrations still ongoing...
01/10/17: Somewhere before this date, many assumed fruition events plus an ongoing off-the-cushion cycling and/or K. These 'fruition' events are characterized by little/nothing I can usually remember about them after, the pre-event mixed with (1) boring stuff or mind wandering off or (2) accompanied with vibrations (much rarer). Post these events, there is absolute silence, unlike now.

Up till now:

1. Insight: What seems like cycling, what seems like repeated fruitions, what seems like embarking on new paths: The only thing clear is I do not know what is happening and I have ceased to care haha.
2. K: getting worse, see https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/6930113

I should explain how I feel at this moment. I have no expectations for attainments and I have dropped the belief of any of my attainments including SE. I am not buying into K being a purification process (yet), I'll watch with acceptance and a calm mind; will continue training in Morality - dropping ego/conditioning by conscious mental efforts - I do not think K can magically melt these away.

1. It can only be pointless Speculation
2. Being is Dukkha
3. (Until) there are clear, permanent non-dual shifts
4. Mental stuff are in a fantastic place - I am contented and happy; no suffering in a monastic environment (Much more important to me than Paths)
5. K is overriding any meaningful observation of nanas - trying to differentiate them is again dukkha/speculation
6. Control is an illusion. All I can do is accept and follow the Buddha's teachings, no? 
7. It is best not to create stories around them but allow curiosity to explore and trust the unfolding...

Situational update: Electical activities on the crown.

Bigbird, did you get K from going to Goenka?

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/14/17 3:56 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Just curious:

Have you experienced a feeling like 'ants crawling on your face' along with an electric feeling up your spine when you try to go to sleep? And then a very tranquil present awareness where you can really feel the solidity of the ground when you walk?

I've googled these things, because they've started happening to me, and it seems to come up with some sort of 'Kundalini Awakening'.

(I doubt it though, considering my level of concentration and practise 'level' is nowhere near yours or Bigbirds.)

It's probably just my A&P, but that had a different 'feel' from what I'm experiencing now.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/15/17 7:47 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Bigbird... No matter how clearly I say and say again, you read deeper and deeper within the lines for things that aren't there: My turn to analyze you from these: You are deeply attached to your own views (about me), you need to let them (held views) go! I think you're more excited than I am. Let's stick to info (like how to deal with it) that can be useful instead of speculation that could be misleading?

K is not awareness. It can only possibly be part of it, no? 

Again:

1. I am in a happy place! Any further information is for others who stumble here - I typed this out many times...
2. What makes you think I am not practicing 8-Fold Path & Satipathanna? I described all 4 mindfulness phenomenon in many posts. Am i misunderstanding the suttas? Is there some deeper meaning/s you know of?
3. I am listing phenomenon like hands so that others will not panic. I've had that for months. And I am not of a character to panic.

Deepankar - ants are very common. Energy up the spine is a sign of K experience only. Let's hope you don't go down this path. I much prefer the POI! But learn something from this, we have no choice/control. emoticon http://maryshutan.com/category/kundalini/

Pawel - The very strange thing that happened last night was that I held on to waves (not sure new or old) and it stay stuck and I had a very long orgasm of the forehead! This thing is weird max! I would love to try out what you mentioned - how do you identify parts that are urging to be used?

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/14/17 8:51 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Bigbird:
No, what you are calling K which is actually awarness is not the result of wrong meditation, it is the result of a dramatic increase in awarness and of the purification of mind.

I am referring to this thing as Kundalini - as the term is widely used. Can you consider using 'In My Opinion' or IMO - there is a tonne of disinformation out there and IMO you are contributing to it! Have you considered for e.g. 1 other amongst many possibilities of K being the "mental resistances met by the sub-conscious mind, resulting in pain" and thus consciously removing such wrong views hence resulting in the pain subsiding/disappearing?

Sweeping statements may lead others (again, not me) down a bad road - please consider what you say carefully.
No suppression of the mental activity is not the solution, as its the result of either agitation from the awareness penitrating the conditioning or the release and discharge. Use mindfullness and stay calm. Let it come out. Practice this, you will need it.
May I ask who suggested suppression of mental activity?
I realise this is a really steep learning curve, eventuarlly you will need to stop most external activities that promote mental agitation and just work with internal stuff. 
Another example of possible harmful disinformation, Bigbird. You are scaring anyone with K symptoms. You are insinuating that even a monk's life is not stopping his external activities enough. Someone who googled and read this comment might just decide to jump.

IMHO - this is not a steep learning curve and there is nothing to learn other than what the whole Buddha's teachings is circling about: Letting go

May I suggest that when you wear someone's else shoes, you be them. It is not the same when you be the same and wear their shoes - that is still you. All I see from what you type, is you in the past or present in someone else's situation. That information is useful for reference, it does not mean that your experience will map to anyone else's. Trying to do so is Dukkha for all involved...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/15/17 12:41 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hi Yilun, the last post was in regards to your post 12/13/17. The questions at the bottom.
Yes it all about resistance-surface mind-sub conscious mind- pain-removal-pain subsiding. There's many ways to say it. Working it out is not important. Its not the practice.
Yes Kundalini is a term, but we start using it, we introduce the whole Kundalini Paradigms a mountain of disinformation comes with it. Your right its a widely used term, but it means so many different things to so many different people i will not take it into Satipatthana practice.
There is no mystery to what is happening. Your experience has a very heightended awareness (which is good) but the process is common. Im giving you the view of  the of the Goenke Tradition, with those answers. Although they will probably tell you just be aware and remain equanamous. My view is that he knew his stuff. Goenke centers are everywhere there will be one near you. Do a course. Their understanding of the experience your having is very knowlegable. But thats my opinion. In Satipatthana you must assimilate your own path. If you want K in Buddhism check out the Tibetan Traditions.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/15/17 1:37 AM as a reply to Bigbird.
Mate - using big words like Satipatthana from a lofty position to tell a monk to start practicing it without explaining what it is that he is missing from one of the most basic frameworks in Buddhism is, pardon me - asking a fish to swim in water?

Walk to the nearest church and tell the pastor to please start obeying the 10 commandments?

Can you state clearly how am I not being mindful and what is it I am missing from Satipatthana instead of switching from that to asking a monk to go attend a Goenke course? Have you ever seen that happen? What gave anyone the idea over the internet to state deterministically whether someone is practicing anything or not? Which of the 4 Satipatthana checks do not go off the moment someone does Vipassana, notices the body, mind, thoughts, emotions and frame of mind?

The word Kundalini is like any other word, using it is for convenience like jargon. The problem is with attachment to concepts and I am afraid it seems like you are the one attached to that.

To be really frank, you are overly judgemental and hold on to your views too tightly. I am amazed by your ability to judge from such a distance. Could this be the blockage/s that is still causing you trouble or is it a kind of Kundalini power?

Please be nice to your mate, he should not be flooded with this. Not knowing what it is fine, tell him to accept it with an inner smile. That is all there is. He does not need to attend any courses...

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/15/17 4:11 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hi Yilun, Goenke is Satipatthana. The reason i suggested you do a course is because your current experience is much more inclined to Goenke. If you are more comfortable with nana's, my experiments  at Jhana Grove seemed to indicate that noting, particularly fast will blow your type of concentration to bits, however it will have a terrible effect on your Energetics and i don't know where it will lead. It may be different for you.

I am not analysing your practice. I don't know what practice your doing. I recognise the experience your having. Ive had that experience. I have stated that one should do traditional 8 fold path. That once the switch has been flicked, one needs to begin Satipatthana. If one does not apply the 4 foundations of mindfullness to the experience one will not develop wisdom. This is my View. So i recommended that you look at the specifics of the practice and begin to perfect it. If thats what your doing then where both on the same page. If you see things differently, thats fine.

If you look at the posts you will see that Kundalini was losing any relevants regarding my view. It plays no part in this stage of the dharma that i know. It was a term to account for an experience of the path that is not on the DHO map. That is the maximum potential of Kundalini for me. I don't do Kundalini. I got my sister to get me as close to the origonal, a copy of Satipatthana i did that. The only other research, was to verify that things could get this unpleasant. (To remove doubt.) Years later i looked at all the teachings. Kundalini looks like a conceptual nightmare. So i mean no disrespect. Its not my field of experience. I regard it as sensations.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/15/17 12:32 PM as a reply to Bigbird.
Isn't Satipatthana automatic past a certain beginning stage? I am mindful of almost all my thoughts/emotions/sensations/mind frame at all times as a monk when not asleep. How is Goenke a foundation of mindfulness which makes other practices/centres lacking Satipatthana in comparison?

IMO - 8 fold path/Satipatthana is more of a foundation/guide than a path to be done like you put it? Aren't all the basic foundations supposed to be lived at all times, together? Why have you placed them like they are stages to be used at different times? It's like saying to abandon right view/speech/action to be mindful of oneself? Again why should dhamma have stages? All of it should be applied when they are applicable. 
 It was a term to account for an experience of the path that is not on the DHO map. That is the maximum potential of Kundalini for me. I don't do Kundalini. 

K is only a set of exaggerated symptoms to be treated like any other group of sensations. Let's not look at K like we are practicing it? We have zero choice in the matter! We should not mysticize nor sensationalize nor run away from it. I am attempting to have more information listed as there really isn't much out there. It is fine to call it what it has been called, maybe narrow down the possibilities/explanations of it occurring but shall we contribute useful knowledge to help others? e.g. when x happens y does z. Or this could be pointless - then let's stop and maybe even delete this thread...

Edit: Deepest apologies!!! Sorry Bigbird... I am not sure where this rage came from. Perhaps from frustration that the info on the web is mainly for 'mad' people who want to awaken this thing and not for people who are 'suffering' from it. Perhaps from my non-acceptance of the K thing happening to me YET! Perhaps from confusion. But no excuses!!! It is my bad. Please forgive me and forget these harsh words.

Peace yeah? Come visit me! I have to make it up to you in person. Don't worry I am not gay. emoticon

Sending you metta and love... Sincerely

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/19/17 10:47 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Hi Yilun, no worries, all good. This is going to happen, its part of the process, and is to be expected. Ive got things to do at present. I will get back to this at a later date.

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/17/17 10:42 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
You have some good stuff in here Yilun, both of you actually, when removing the master to grasshopper tone it has taken lol.
It’s interesting to think that K is triggered by deep states of awareness. I meditated all day and night, using control techniques to enter a hard fourth jhana on my second Goenka course in six months when I popped, so there may be something to this. I’ve read the 12v to 240v analogy over and over as well, which may be true who knows.
You asked a question up-thread about backing off practice and how that impacts symptoms. Well, IME, it didn’t do much. My Kundalini experience was in the Summer of 2007. I kept up my practice of a couple hours a day of sits with a couple more retreats through 2010. The process unfolded and changed, but can’t say it got less intense.
So I tried backing off. I threw my energy into my business, creativity, eating whatever, not sitting, quit asana practice and...5+ years later in 2016 nothing had changed. Awareness stays on bodily sensations, pain, especially in the heart center, is a running theme, and I’m still all blocked up. But you are correct, suffering and pain are different things, and I’ve personally found the same practice of open awareness to be the most effective way to deal, everything else feels like distraction.
Practice well emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/22/17 4:01 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
<p>Thanks again Bigbird! I have been very well!&nbsp;Decided not to check DhO to take a break from it and&nbsp;I&#39;ve to coach beginner&nbsp;meditation during the day. Been doing choiceless awareness, which seems to embody what you described above; have simply been mindful of everything, though am not sure how&nbsp;the deeper Satipatthana you mention works. Can you describe it as I find it difficult to understand?</p>

<p>I&#39;ve had many of those symptoms, not sure whether they are discharges or not, does it matter and how do you know them as discharges?</p>

<p>Much Metta to You! emoticon</p>

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/22/17 4:03 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Thanks again Bigbird! I have been very well! Decided not to check DhO to take a break from it and I've to coach beginner meditation during the day. Been doing choiceless awareness, which seems to embody what you described above; have simply been mindful of everything, though am not sure how the deeper Satipatthana you mention works. Can you describe it as I find it difficult to understand?

I've had many of those symptoms, not sure whether they are discharges or not, does it matter and how do you know them as discharges?

Much Metta to You! emoticon

RE: Kundalini Purification - Bigbird?
Answer
12/24/17 11:45 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Im not sure what i mean't with deeper Satipatthana, i will think about it.
Yes please do let me know as I would not want to go through a big hassle to attend a Goenke course (not by Goenke but by some random people with course material I have already read a few times about).
The data costs are minimal. I would gladly pay for the data, so i don't have to type. Then you can grill me for definition. Any misunderstandings can be fixed immediately. I am in contact with Thailand every day and have used this system for many years.

That is so nice of you! I am fine now, the only difficulties to me, which had passed - is to know that this is not part of the Insight cycles and to drop fear/control over it. 
Where he says note, notice is the other option, and suits your type of concentration.
Just curious, what do you mean by my "type of concentration"?

Wishing you and everyone a most Happy Xmas and Merry New Year! emoticon