I really like Frank's video not just because it references my own ramblings (as there are plenty of references to my ramblings that I don't like), but because I think he is really onto something important and practical and he does a great job of explaining it clearly.

Good times!

Thanks for the tip, this was an interesting video! I almost didn't watch it as I feel some repulsion towards Mensa (or more precisely: people who are a bit too high on their IQ horse and being assholes about it, typically rambling about their Mensa memberships every chance they get....) but this was never an issue on the talk.

Thanks, Jehanne.

I actually am not a Mensa member. I'm just glad that they let low-brows like me give talks at their gatherings! :-)

- Frank

You might find the latest Sam Harris podcast  <https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/113-consciousness-and-the-self> with Anil Seth of some interest.  It's long (~3 hrs),  and perhaps overly academic for some/many in its wide-ranging discussions on consciousness, but it's a fascinating conversation that touches on some of the underlying material in Heile's talk.

Thanks for sharing. This is truly the best contemporary explanation of spirituality that I’ve come across and definitely one to send to those who think spirituality/meditation is “woo woo”.

Thanks, Anna.  I do try to explain spirituality without using "spirits."

haha! I really like your explanation and I look forward to reading your book.

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the kind words!

To all DhO members:

To get a very infrequent email when new content is available, or when I finally publish my book, please visit my website, Spirituality Explained, and click on the "Sign up now" button.

I will also be releasing a beta test version of a guided meditation based on these ideas. Find out more about that here - it has instructions about how to be part of the beta test group. I would love to get feedback from the experienced meditators on this group.

- Frank

Fantastic video! Thanks for sharing. Frank, I subscribed to your website and am looking forward to your book.

Daniel, if I rememeber and understand correctly, in MCTB and in other occasions you have been critical of the "no internal monologue model of enlightenment" that some propose, like Gary Weber. Frank's three-agent model explicitly includes the "stilness" as an aspect or by-product of Enlightenment. It looks like, according to him, non-duality, no-self and stillness are different aspects of the same thing, if I understand correctly. I wonder if you have any thoughts to share on this.

Frank: How would you say Dzogchen rigpa / Mahamudra tha mal gyi shes pa are related to your three-agent model? My impression is that rigpa = experiencer, basically.

Hi Neko,

I certainly did not mean stillness to say that there is no internal monologue. I have heard teachers talk of stillness and I interpreted that as being equivalent to saying the Experiencer is not "doing" anything. So, when you identify as only the Experiencer, you are still. However, the Thinker and Doer keep on thinking and doing.

I do think there can be less internal monologue, and that the Experiencer could direct less attention to the internal monologue. This would be accomplished with the "Wise Intuitive Attention Mechanism" that I talk about in the video. If the goal of being less self-centered is established, the Experiencer can help accomplish that goal by attending less to self-centered monologue. (And almost all the monologue is self-centered.) 

Also, if I identify with the Thinker, then the Thinker's thoughts are IMPORTANT (that is me talking!), but if I identify with only the Experiencer, then the thoughts are just someone else's opinion, so they are not very important.

I don't know much about rigpa, but from the little I know, I would agree that rigpa = Experiencer Consciousness.

By the way, I started a new thread for discussion of this model.  Would you mind asking any followup questions there?

- Frank

Thanks for the clarification, Frank. Makes sense! If I have any follow-up questions, I will bring them to the new thread

A new thread that contains more information about this three-agent model has been started here. Perhaps we can direct further discussion about this model to that location?

- Frank

Hi Daniel (and everyone),

I wanted to let you know that I have just published a new video which contains the most complete, up-to-date and, I hope, most compelling and convincing description of this model:

https://youtu.be/JAu7lDgjAZg

I have included some new content and I have also improved some of the explanations I used in the older video. If you haven't watched the video that was originally posted on this thread, I hope you will watch this new video instead. If you have already watched the other video, I also hope you will watch this video and let me know what you think - is it more compelling and convincing?

I am happy to answer any questions you might have about either video.

Frank Heile