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Fruition and Review
Answer
6/25/18 1:14 PM
Hey DhO!  I have a couple technical questions regarding Fruition and Review.

The other day I had what I was almost sure to be my first perceivable Fruition. Ascended the nanas into EQ and then out of nowhere there was a tiny little blip quickly followed by a bliss wave. Shortly afterwards I entered a new and very hard to describe territory. It was as if space and time were being squished. Suchness seemed to be converging into a single point. My perception of time was strongly distorted and appeared to be moving very quickly yet slower simultaneously. The makeup of awareness itself was of an altered quality. It was a blast.

1. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but for the "Review" stage, with practice, does one become more proficient at attaining fruitions? Or asked a different way, does one become more proficient at navigating EQ into a fruition just as one becomes more proficient at navigating through dukkha nanas into EQ? When one has mastered first path review, is one able to attain a fruition on virtually every sit? 

2. Does anyone have any guesses on what that state or jhana was that I entered post-fruition? That was absolutely bananas.

Note: I say first "perceivable" Fruition, because I'm pretty sure I've had one once or twice before in the last couple months but didn't know what was going on. The bliss wave was strangely familiar but had never noted the cessation. Also, the perspective shift associated with stream entry seemed to occur a couple months back (but I'm completely ok with being potentially wrong about this).

Any feedback would be amazing. Thanks!          

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
6/27/18 6:53 AM as a reply to Nick O.
Any other changes after the last few days?

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
6/27/18 7:46 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Any other changes after the last few days?

Been watching myself play different roles in conversations and noticing things happen by themselves with increased clarity. There has also been a subtle deconstruction of the mental image I associate with self. I used to see my mind create this entity of self with which to reference or reflect upon. It has been breaking down for a while now but it has gone almost completely transparent. When I ask "myself" to find "the self" it's obvious its not there, even if the mind may be trying to construct some thin illusion of one.

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
6/27/18 8:01 AM as a reply to Nick O.
Nick O:
1. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but for the "Review" stage, with practice, does one become more proficient at attaining fruitions?

Supposedly.
 Or asked a different way, does one become more proficient at navigating EQ into a fruition just as one becomes more proficient at navigating through dukkha nanas into EQ?

Yeah.  But detecting cessations before/after & having them occur without being noticed are two different things.
When one has mastered first path review, is one able to attain a fruition on virtually every sit? 

Supposedly.
2. Does anyone have any guesses on what that state or jhana was that I entered post-fruition? 

A temporary preview of some later nondual baseline.  Powered by review mind (assuming you were actually in review).

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
6/28/18 6:53 PM as a reply to Nick O.
First, it is really easy to presume that something is Fruition when it was the A&P, a shift into Equanimity, or something else, as there are plenty of mimics, though those are by far the most common, with the A&P being at the top of the list. It is very important to keep an open mind, keep practicing, and just see what happens.

Regarding Review practice, there is a range of capabilities among practitioners, some of which seems to result from training and inclination, but some of which appears to be hardwired (genetics? no idea). MCTB2 goes into detail about the various classes of practitioners in this regard, but the bottom line is that most, but not all, can learn to get repeat Fruitions, and the frequency of these occurring varies widely, with some who can get them only rarely, some only one per day, some who can get them only on retreat, some who can get them in a single sit in daily life, some who can get them during activities of daily life, some who can get multiples in a day, some who can get multiples back to back, some who can get duration. Formal resolutions and learning how to walk up the stages of insight to Equanimity and then how to incline to Fruition can help, but this presumes stream entry.

The mind after a Fruition is clear, clean, open, feels reset, refreshed, and there are not all sorts of distortions or other odd things like that, all of which make me think A&P more than Fruition. Care to give more specific details with time components and durations in your descriptions?

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
6/29/18 1:59 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel,

Yes, thank you for asking. Before I get into the specifics, I'll shoot out a quick review of this year:

I attended a 10 day vipassana retreat in March and experienced the whole dramatic A&P that washed over a few days as a wave. Sacred geometric visuals, explosive raptures, oscilating waves of heavy bliss and fear, intense sexual energy and such. A line in MCTB described one evening to the T: "as if we have been submerged in thick syrup and partially sedated by some strong, opiate like drug."

In early April there was a major shift that occurred over a few days:

- It seemed as if there were two parallel realities that merged. One where I was trying to live up to some perfect concept of myself and another that was just me living out my life. The former merged into the latter.

- If sitting for meditation was asking a question, there is now an answer. Something is "known".

-  There's been an inversion of identity reference where the perceived is more closely identified with than any mental construct of self.

I lost motivation to meditate as things seemed perfect but continued practicing again when I noticed laziness, indifference and emotional "stickiness". 

Current practice:

dry vipassana / 3c's, 6 sense doors / using the movement of the abdomen as main object. Just trying to feel and notice all sensations. 

In the the first minute of my sit, I pass through 5 waves or "stages". The first two are slightly unpleasant sort of tension that last a few seconds each. The third is more of a state than a wave. It lasts much longer, is less intense and has a sort of "choppy", nauseating quality to it. The last two seem to mimic the first two but are much stronger, the last being the most intense. A few weeks ago, It took me maybe 20 minutes to pass through these, with the 3rd stage lasting much longer than the others. Now I am able to pass through all 5 in about a minute. After the 5th wave, I enter a calm, effortless, loving realm where I usually remain for the rest of the hour sit. Sometimes towards the end of the session I experience some very subtle aversion, tension or boredom. When I am at my best, later in the session the body will begin to feel heavy and light at the same time with a tingly, dissolving sensation.

Thanks again for your time. Any pointers or feedback would be greatly appreciated! 

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
7/12/18 4:03 AM as a reply to Nick O.
Hello Nick O

To ensure Fruitation , here is how we check in our meditation center.

First Wish : May I Attain the Achieved Fruitation of Stream Entry Within This 1 hour meditation session.
then note down in a table for each session.


I had made a google form for meditation for easy reporting.
Attached is the example form that i made for Miguel.  .

https://goo.gl/forms/QJXVEr7UH2fgvzNN2

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
7/12/18 10:19 AM as a reply to Phyo Arkar.
In average , stream enterers cease once in 5 sits with aung thu kha way. 
Should be around that with Mahasi too if the notings are correct.

The wishing is necessary for gaining fruitation repeatedly: it is setting the aim. But when you wish make sure you just wish without greed.
If you wish with Desire or Greed , you won't get it. Only set aim  , do not Desire it.

If you master that , frequency of fruitation is more frequent and frequent.

there are 3 type of wishes (as detailed in report form) .

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
7/12/18 10:51 AM as a reply to Phyo Arkar.
Thank you for the tips! Much appreciated! I'll work this into my practice. 

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
7/19/18 1:19 AM as a reply to Nick O.
i will help with review, i saw you completed once

RE: Fruition and Review
Answer
7/19/18 7:26 AM as a reply to Phyo Arkar.
I'm not so sure. It seems pretty much impossible to verify these things. Either way, practice continues.