Dukkha Cessation - Discussion
Dukkha Cessation
Jackson Wilshire, modified 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 12:48 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 12:48 PM
Dukkha Cessation
Posts: 443 Join Date: 5/6/09 Recent Posts
Forum: A Realtime Chronicle of 2nd Path?
From "A Realtime Chronicle of 2nd Path?"
@Kenneth: "Roll your eyes up into your head and let them flicker. Is the flickering continuous, or does it come in pulsing waves? Watch for the end of a cycle of flickers. There's just a tiny bit of tension as you focus on the end of the wave. Ftrrrp, ftrrrrp, ftrrrp. The hard stop is a dukkha cessation. The smoother, slippery ones are anatta."
The hard stop is exactly that... a full on HALT. My first fruition for both 1st and 2nd Path were through the suffering door, and both the entry and exit were like a universal stutter of experience. I had a stomach ache the day I got 2nd Path, and I remember being thrown back in to my stomach ache after the halt. It almost felt like being punched in the gut. The bliss wave that followed made up for it though.
The anatta, or "no-self" cessations are very smooth, especially at the exit, and they're the one's I experience most often. From what I can tell, the anicca, or "impermanence" cessations are the most difficult for me to get a good look at. There's quick flashing, and then I come to with a sort of disoriented feeling for just a moment.
Just thought I'd share my experience, since it resonates with what you described.
From "A Realtime Chronicle of 2nd Path?"
@Kenneth: "Roll your eyes up into your head and let them flicker. Is the flickering continuous, or does it come in pulsing waves? Watch for the end of a cycle of flickers. There's just a tiny bit of tension as you focus on the end of the wave. Ftrrrp, ftrrrrp, ftrrrp. The hard stop is a dukkha cessation. The smoother, slippery ones are anatta."
The hard stop is exactly that... a full on HALT. My first fruition for both 1st and 2nd Path were through the suffering door, and both the entry and exit were like a universal stutter of experience. I had a stomach ache the day I got 2nd Path, and I remember being thrown back in to my stomach ache after the halt. It almost felt like being punched in the gut. The bliss wave that followed made up for it though.
The anatta, or "no-self" cessations are very smooth, especially at the exit, and they're the one's I experience most often. From what I can tell, the anicca, or "impermanence" cessations are the most difficult for me to get a good look at. There's quick flashing, and then I come to with a sort of disoriented feeling for just a moment.
Just thought I'd share my experience, since it resonates with what you described.
Kenneth Folk, modified 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 2:16 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 2:16 PM
RE: Dukkha Cessation
Posts: 439 Join Date: 4/30/09 Recent Posts
Good topic, Jackson.
I find that the dukkha cessations are the easiest to call up, as you can get them through effort, i.e. straining a bit to see the end of the fluttering eyelid cycles. I also notice that the dukkha door cessations are always brief; they just last a split second, but usually come in clusters.
The anatta door cessations feel like slipping on the ice while walking and finding that you are suddenly slightly farther ahead than you were a moment ago. They often appear spontaneously while I am inducing dukkha cessations. They can also come while deep in the fourth jhana/11th nana, especially if I make a resolution to experience one. They are much more flexible in duration and can easily last for 1,5, 10, 60 minutes or more. The bliss wave that follows them is more profound than the one that corresponds to dukkha cessations. But the longer anatta cessations are a lot like sleep, and sometimes I'm not sure I can tell the difference.
Anicca cessations feel to me as though some force has taken hold of my brain at the third eye area, and is rapidly wiggling my mind in and out of nibbana. They are very pleasant, and can last for several seconds. They seem to require a very subtle effort to sustain.
An interesting thing about cessation in whatever form is that unlike most pleasant things, it isn't at all addictive. I don't ever feel called to do it, but I'm always glad I did. I go for weeks at a time without consciously calling up cessation; I don't know why. Just now, sitting in front of the computer and calling up cessations of all three varieties so that I could intelligently write about them, I realized how calming and empowering they can be.
Ever since 2nd Path, I've found that it only takes a few seconds to call up any of the three kinds of cessations. Rolling my eyes up into my head and letting my eyelids flicker is a very reliable way to induce them.
I find that the dukkha cessations are the easiest to call up, as you can get them through effort, i.e. straining a bit to see the end of the fluttering eyelid cycles. I also notice that the dukkha door cessations are always brief; they just last a split second, but usually come in clusters.
The anatta door cessations feel like slipping on the ice while walking and finding that you are suddenly slightly farther ahead than you were a moment ago. They often appear spontaneously while I am inducing dukkha cessations. They can also come while deep in the fourth jhana/11th nana, especially if I make a resolution to experience one. They are much more flexible in duration and can easily last for 1,5, 10, 60 minutes or more. The bliss wave that follows them is more profound than the one that corresponds to dukkha cessations. But the longer anatta cessations are a lot like sleep, and sometimes I'm not sure I can tell the difference.
Anicca cessations feel to me as though some force has taken hold of my brain at the third eye area, and is rapidly wiggling my mind in and out of nibbana. They are very pleasant, and can last for several seconds. They seem to require a very subtle effort to sustain.
An interesting thing about cessation in whatever form is that unlike most pleasant things, it isn't at all addictive. I don't ever feel called to do it, but I'm always glad I did. I go for weeks at a time without consciously calling up cessation; I don't know why. Just now, sitting in front of the computer and calling up cessations of all three varieties so that I could intelligently write about them, I realized how calming and empowering they can be.
Ever since 2nd Path, I've found that it only takes a few seconds to call up any of the three kinds of cessations. Rolling my eyes up into my head and letting my eyelids flicker is a very reliable way to induce them.
Jackson Wilshire, modified 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 7:35 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/20/09 7:35 PM
RE: Dukkha Cessation
Posts: 443 Join Date: 5/6/09 Recent Posts
Kenneth,
I like your "slipping on ice" analogy for anicca cessations. It really does feel like, "How'd I get here?" The duration of complete cessation, as in the big zero, hasn't lasted any longer than a second as far as I can tell. It's hard to imagine it lasting any longer. The afterglow, however, can last much longer.
I haven't quite been able to get fruitions by sheer force of will. Lately, all I have to do is get concentrated for 5 minutes or so (sometimes less, if I haven't had a fruition in a over a day), and the process just takes care of it self without any special effort. It's getting easier and easier now that I can get in to first jhana almost immediately just by sitting down and directing my attention. The afterglow of fruitions enhance first jhana in a really cool way, as the afterglow energy and the jhana energy seem to operate on separate channels. The combo is deeply satisfying while it lasts, as the frequencies seem harmonious. After the intense part of the fruition afterglow starts to calm down, entering in to second jhana is quite effortless, and also very enjoyable. I'd like to get to the point where I can experience a fruition while in each of the jhanas, so I can see if the same enhancing effect takes place. Does any of this match up to your experience?
Jackson
I like your "slipping on ice" analogy for anicca cessations. It really does feel like, "How'd I get here?" The duration of complete cessation, as in the big zero, hasn't lasted any longer than a second as far as I can tell. It's hard to imagine it lasting any longer. The afterglow, however, can last much longer.
I haven't quite been able to get fruitions by sheer force of will. Lately, all I have to do is get concentrated for 5 minutes or so (sometimes less, if I haven't had a fruition in a over a day), and the process just takes care of it self without any special effort. It's getting easier and easier now that I can get in to first jhana almost immediately just by sitting down and directing my attention. The afterglow of fruitions enhance first jhana in a really cool way, as the afterglow energy and the jhana energy seem to operate on separate channels. The combo is deeply satisfying while it lasts, as the frequencies seem harmonious. After the intense part of the fruition afterglow starts to calm down, entering in to second jhana is quite effortless, and also very enjoyable. I'd like to get to the point where I can experience a fruition while in each of the jhanas, so I can see if the same enhancing effect takes place. Does any of this match up to your experience?
Jackson
Jackson Wilshire, modified 15 Years ago at 3/21/09 8:11 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/21/09 8:11 AM
RE: Dukkha Cessation
Posts: 443 Join Date: 5/6/09 Recent Posts
So, I played around with the "eye flickering" thing today, and I actually got it to work. I appreciate this approach because I don't tend to have as many dukkha cessations in my regular practice. This gives me an opportunity to observe the entrance and exit more frequently. Nice.
I noticed something else about cessation that I find quite interesting. Prior to reading literature on the chakras, I noticed that in the moments directly after fruition the back of my eyelids manifest as sort of a pinkish/purplish color. It is especially strong when there is a radical shift in energy from my eyes/brow area to the top of my head. In reading about the chakras, numerous sources have linked the color "violet" to the crown chakra. When I first read this, I thought, "Yeah, I can see why." I'm not planning on placing any particular emphasis on how colors show up in practice. I just thought it was an interesting correlation.
Jackson
I noticed something else about cessation that I find quite interesting. Prior to reading literature on the chakras, I noticed that in the moments directly after fruition the back of my eyelids manifest as sort of a pinkish/purplish color. It is especially strong when there is a radical shift in energy from my eyes/brow area to the top of my head. In reading about the chakras, numerous sources have linked the color "violet" to the crown chakra. When I first read this, I thought, "Yeah, I can see why." I'm not planning on placing any particular emphasis on how colors show up in practice. I just thought it was an interesting correlation.
Jackson
Wet Paint, modified 15 Years ago at 3/25/09 4:50 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/25/09 4:50 PM
RE: Dukkha Cessation
Posts: 22924 Join Date: 8/6/09 Recent Posts
Author: Dan_K
Am I understanding this correctly? When a pulse from any of the six sense doors ends it does so in accord to one of the three characteristics/doors. There is a cycle of which characteristic is showing with dukkha being to end of a cycle. Based upon the descriptions, it seems like this cycle is every five or six pulses with the “hard stop” being the dukkha which is signified by feelings of tension.
If the aspirant accurately perceives the individual cessations of each pulse, that will catalyze a “grand” cessation of formations (fruition)?
For attaining fruition, is it only necessary to see the endings through any door, and the entrance/exit will coincide with that pulse in the cycle?
When I focus on the ending of sensations (specifically tactile) instead of seeing vibes as being patterns that are blinking in and out, it is like erosion, as if observing sand funnel downward in an hourglass. Each pulse is "absorbed," and the body part that I focus on becomes amorphous. Does this sound correct?
Thanks,
Dan
Am I understanding this correctly? When a pulse from any of the six sense doors ends it does so in accord to one of the three characteristics/doors. There is a cycle of which characteristic is showing with dukkha being to end of a cycle. Based upon the descriptions, it seems like this cycle is every five or six pulses with the “hard stop” being the dukkha which is signified by feelings of tension.
If the aspirant accurately perceives the individual cessations of each pulse, that will catalyze a “grand” cessation of formations (fruition)?
For attaining fruition, is it only necessary to see the endings through any door, and the entrance/exit will coincide with that pulse in the cycle?
When I focus on the ending of sensations (specifically tactile) instead of seeing vibes as being patterns that are blinking in and out, it is like erosion, as if observing sand funnel downward in an hourglass. Each pulse is "absorbed," and the body part that I focus on becomes amorphous. Does this sound correct?
Thanks,
Dan