What I love about buddhism is, all the claims are supposed to be verifiable with personal empirical experience. "Ehipassika".

I understand some are able to perceive past lives, with various techniques.

How can one know if this is simply a trick of the mind, or a reality?

If scientists were to design an experiment to discover if this is true or false, how would you go about it?

Not a buddhist but if you practice with some kind of imaginal practice (I'm currently doing dream yoga) then you can view entering a dream as a rebirth.
The onotological status of these experiences are hard to determine, but you can still derive value from them by practicing
morality and using it as a simulator to learn from experience it would still have an effect upon you. Empirically effects like jhana are also amplified
during dream state, so mental moves seem more observable like learning to move between the jhanas.

Experiences that feel "real", with that noetic quality of "truth" that would seem to strongly imply rebirth can definitely arise in some practitioner and even occasionally non-practitioners, particularly young children.

As noted above, issues of ontology are complicated, though there are fascinating documented case series at places like DOPS at UVA with curious evidence.

As noted above, they can also sometimes provide deep psychological insights that can be valuable (or sometimes not so valuable) regardless of issues of ontological verification.

Even within Buddhism, one finds it explained both ways, meaning that rebirth is real or not real, depending on the frame of reference. Through a first or second training point of view, the "form" or "compassion" end of things, there is rebirth and karma, a past, a future, and all of that. From a third training point of view, the "emptiness" end of things, there is no rebirth, nothing to be reborn, nothing separare, only transient sensations arising and vanishing now, no past, no future, and this moment to insubstantial to withstand scrutiny.

Both frames can be helpful from a pragmatic point of view, depending on the practitioner, practice, phase of practice, goals, etc.

I know Sadhguru has talked about how he had past life experiences, and has recognized people from his current life in them, and then helped said people recall their own past lives and confirm that they were friends in past lives. I suppose, if that's true, that would confirm it. I haven't had any past life experiences myself so I can't speak for any validity, but if that's possible I suppose that's one way of validating.

I want to be respectful and reply to all these awesome comments, but they really leave me lost for words.

Will try to reply if I can achieve brainfunction later.

Dr. Ian Stevenson was a scientist who studied reincarnation.

https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/who-we-are/history-of-dops/dr-ian-stevenson/

He studied children with verified memories of past lives, some of whom had an rare type of birthmark at a location on their body that corresponded to an injury in the past life.

They don't.  I was raised catholic. How do we know heaven in real. Faith they say. Hmmm . Even buddhism which  seems more rational and less dogmatic  contains an element of faith.    I don't think NDE are hard evidence  of an Intermittent  state ,Christain or Buddhist. However  it should be studied  I believe.

I asked ChatGPT the following question:

If scientists were to design an experiment to discover if rebirth were true or false, how would you go about it?
Here is the reply:

The concept of rebirth, which is also known as reincarnation, is a philosophical and religious idea that is not currently supported by scientific evidence. However, if scientists were to design an experiment to investigate the possibility of rebirth, they would need to develop a rigorous experimental protocol that could be replicated and tested by other researchers.Here are some general considerations for designing an experiment to investigate the possibility of rebirth:

1. Define the hypothesis: The first step in designing any experiment is to clearly define the hypothesis that you want to test. In this case, the hypothesis would be that rebirth is a real phenomenon that can be scientifically verified.
2. Develop a study design: To investigate the hypothesis of rebirth, scientists would need to design a study that could collect and analyze data in a systematic way. This might involve identifying individuals who claim to have memories of past lives and comparing their statements to historical or archaeological records to determine their accuracy.
3. Select participants: Scientists would need to carefully select participants who claim to have memories of past lives and verify their claims through interviews and other forms of data collection.
4. Collect and analyze data: Scientists would need to collect data from the participants and analyze it using statistical methods to determine if there is any correlation between their memories and historical or archaeological records.
5. Replicate the study: To ensure the validity of the results, the experiment would need to be replicated by other researchers using the same or similar methods.

It's important to note that the concept of rebirth is not currently supported by scientific evidence, and designing an experiment to investigate it would be a significant challenge. Additionally, any study that seeks to investigate the possibility of rebirth would need to be conducted with sensitivity and respect for the beliefs and cultural traditions of the individuals involved.

It may help to examine the other options . The usual one is that subjective experience is a byproduct of brain chemicals. If you actually scrutinize that idea, it's pretty trippy.  To me it's actually more magical & fantastical than the rebirth option, which simply posits the serial continuity of moments of experience in a continuum, similar to other continuums we observe in daily life & science.

Indeed. The more fundamental question from a scientific standpoint is what is consciousness? Nobody has a convincing answer as to how the experience of an apple can arise from a bunch of chemicals and cells wired together in a neural net inside a body.

Why is does modern western science assume that materiality comes first and subjective mental phenomena is a byproduct of brain chemicals? Why can't the latter be true? Or co-arising of both?

It's just a gratuitious assumption in my opinion and a blind-spot for the scientific establishment.

It's weird that this hasn't been said explicitly, but only kind of vaguely gestured as - but you have visions with the noetic quality of truth Daniel was talking about, but *they seem to do with past lives*. So some people have context around them (like they remember things reversed chronologically until they get to the start, and then they keep going backwards until it's an old life).

But even within Buddism there are problems with rebirth
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from nagarjunas Madhyamaka, by westeroff 

Beth Upton, who trained as a nun with Pa Auk Sayadaw, says that past life memories are generally suspect, even if they feel real, unless they reveal insight into the karmic seed that gave rise to the next rebirth. She gives a basic instruction on how to do the practice of recalling previous lives on her youtube page. 

A lot of the siddhi stuff seems a bit suspect to me. I've met people who claim to read minds and be able to smell diseases and what not, and the statistician training in me just thinks "wow what a very testable claim that you're not going to hold up to scrutiny".

But at the same time I've had weird visions and WILD lucid dreaming when meditation, as well as dreams that "solve" life stuff. I don't think the question should be "is it real?" But really "does this help me live a better life?"

"Ok friend" 

Perhaps it is backwards. Maybe those chemicals, cells and brain networks arise from experience...

But they don't. The topic is controversial. Religious buddhists accept this, because it's in the scripture... sort of.<br />1. Agnostic buddhists experience the perpetuation of Karma, but it is not clear if "rebirth" means that the identity persists, or even if it transmits from one individual to another one (vs. many-to-many). What they definitely experience is that Karma (will, if you like) persists through death (has consequences after someone's death). Take a look at Vipassana: the goal is to experience that "me" is a illusion. How can a non-existing individuum concept be so important in buddhism?<br />2. If I remember correctly, Buddha refused to answer the question of transcendence and individuality. There are of course the Sutras with his past lives, but those are apocryphical. Unfortunately, Buddhism is too vague to have a single interpretation, apart from not being clear if it is a relgion or what.

I have also been thinking about this since I came across Beth and Pa Auk.

A couple of relevant videos by Beth:
Discerning past nama (mentality)
Which kamma produced your life?

It seems to me the answer is that they know because they simply investigated our phenomenological experience to such a great extent that they
can also be certain that they know. They can go down the chain of mind moments back to childhood and even back to the time they were in their mother's womb and then they discovered it's possible to go even beyond that. Beth describes that the mind moment of being in a womb is in stark contrast to the mind moment of a dying being that's immediately preceding it. And they can be certain that they know because of the one-pointedness of awareness - if their awareness slipped and they'd start dreaming things up, they'd notice. And they studied all the characteristics of the different concentrated awareness types - she goes into all the details in her videos.
I think that a part of this podcast is also relevant: Beth Upton - Insight Myanmar

I actually came looking here because I think there are people here who probably have the skill and ability to try this out, so maybe there's someone here who can speak from experience. I vaguely recall Delson Armstrong briefly discussing past lives, possibly in one of Guru Viking's podcasts. I'm not sure if he implied that he can do it, but I think he mentioned that it requires a lot of skill. I don't even do Vipassana, so I don't try to provide a more precise description with all the correct terminology above.

I'd appreciate pointers to yogic sources on this topic. Is there something equivalent to Pa Auk's exercises and level of rigor in Yoga?

Buddhism comes with a lot of cultural baggage.

Accepting only what could be verified empirically is generally a skillful attitude. 

Much-more-better is to look at this "rebirth" via the 6 Realms and 5 Elemens practice. We live and die every arising-passing moment. Life and death in one breath.

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Life does not know death.

Life is endless, like a river

it has a rhythm to it

we receive it from our ancestors and pass it on to our progeny

giving, giving

​​​​​​​generation to generation

"a way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs." 
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last and first sentences of finnegan's wake, james joyce


HCE refers to the chief character, Here Comes Everybody

Sense of self originally (and in healthy mind) is just an image made (by evolution) by sensual experiences enhance to simplify thinking of one's own state - something especially useful when we primates and then monkeys started living in groups. It is just feedback system. Similarly to how senses experiencing effects of acting with your body can be thought of as feedback system. Sense of self is just internal feedback system - mostly using muscle tension so in fact something between external feedback (like observing yourself moving hand with your eyes) and purely internal that don't use actual physical senses (muscle tension is sensual experience).

There is however an issue and not even with sense of self but feedback systems - mind that has them might start generating identity views. These usually cause suffering because since the same mind is there to protect body it causes such mind to protect itself from things it perceive as harmful for it and this include change. Change involves disappearing to be replaced - mind feat to disappear.

This condition as I call it causes mind to think of it needing to exist as it is exactly and this causes suffering because mind cannot physically operate without changing its underlying components. When it as I call it 'disperses' then it makes it much easier for nervous system to switch active parts in and out. That is why pretty much all descriptions of enlightenment talk about something to do with self.

Some people never really sort faculty of sense of self (which require realizing what it is) and some take not having it arise as becoming ego-less - which is nonsense as being selfish has nothing to do with feedback system used or one being used. For identity views just having feedback of external senses is totally enough to cause identity views. For being ill willed it is enough to consider bad actions as acceptable. With identity views there also comes motivation. Even without rigid identity views which can be felt mind will still prioritize itself. Potential mind without any feedback loops might be selfless simply because of not having any form of identity due to missing feedback loops but such person would be incapable of acting not seeing what it does so pretty useless. No to mention such person could not learn to operate. And if they learned how to operate then it would be just repeating pre-programmed operations mindlessly.

Person has to not remove feedback loops but learn to recognize identity views developing and just disperse them. If anything more feedback loops help with them and having such feedback loops which can be easily controlled by mind and used when needed. In fact best way to not have identity views is having much more feedback loops but activate them only from time to time and/or deactivate them from time to time. Duty cycle should also have its own feedback loop... or to call it differently be conscious.

---
How does this relate to Buddha and his rebirth?

We are talking about very dedicated ascete who did believe in most things taught to him by fellow ascetes. He figured that trick with Nibbana but from what he talks he never had very good perception of it. Living in times where people just didn't know certain things also made it easier to justify some types of thinking. I am pretty sure compared to typical Arhat his perception was a god-like but mind can do much better. In fact my goal was always to have such percpetion that if Buddha found himself in some pickle to be able to free him.

Now what is not wanting to exist?
I didn't need error-corrected perception to realize he was depressed. The matter was to figure: why?
Now the why is pretty simple, his liking of relief, liberation. He found Nibbana and it has this thing I call relief very close to it. It is very easy to indulge in this experience separately to study when focus and with it control of parameters influencing neuronal activity is such precise that difference between jhana, nibbana and relief can be resolved. If not then we get kinda jhanic experience of relief that also inhibits stuff and causes identity views to disperse. Because of how inducing activity with this activity trigger causes it to spread its easy to imagine how he could figure to just rather than let activity go where it went... which could not be left alone as it feels agitated... but rather cause such "fuzzy Nibbana" as it can be called in the whole mind would cause the whole thing to just sorta melt. It is enough to be closer to the so called 'center' (so on Nibbana) to cause whole thing to settle mostly on inactivity when inducing it is stopped.

Easy to imagine... why even imagine. It can be just done.
I did that for few years but because I practiced my perception and it was my priority - which it was because I suspected that if I don't I'll get stuck on some tricks like this, besides I wanted to be ready for monitors with bazillion of pixels - I started to eventually consider this a low level trick. I realized what the liberation in what Buddha talked is and considered it a fetter itself.

Now I don't think Buddha necessarily didn't figure out that. Rather I think he was deliberately not very precise in his teachings knowing that by practicing with this stuff person can figure truth. I also think he knew this impossible situation of popularity (which he wouldn't have if he started stating things as they are) versus inevitability of degradation of dharma which is inevitable because people when moving to target like to keep safe distance so whatever someone  was talking about even if it was already with calculated distance people would still not achieve this level if they didn't have Buddha as the reference to push them.

Unless of course someone realizes what the "Buddha" is. Then they are limitless.

---
ok ok but what about rebirth?

WHAT REBIRTH?

I was pondering about the nature of 'the issue' and one term got likes in my mind: "RETIRMENT FUND SCAM"
Buddha just realized its all a scam. Very deliberate scam and proliferated for a reason. Mostly allowed by ignorance and fear but invented by ill will.

I don't think Buddha figured good solution to it. About as good as good solution anyone can figure out. No matter the implementation details the solution is the same.

So basically Buddha realized what karma is and how its used by ill willed entities to shut the people up, their consciousness by promising them an after-life and also other perks and of course punishment for diobedience. Different cultures have different details but the premise and methods are always the same.

My attitude always was: don't touch that stuff. Even devil has rules it doesn't break as it cannot do certain things which consciousness can. There can be workarounds. Other than that my attitude was: people just need to throw this 'contract' as off and realize its a scam. Scams are not legally binding. Of course if that was only that easy. It is but it also isn't. Need to be a bit more inventive than I already am. Things change but some things still stay the same. Sooner or later I will figure it out. I can feel it in my neurons ;)

Metta Fruitions,
Ni

When did the Buddha recall his past lives? Was it moments before his enlightenment  or did it happen right after.? I could never exactly  figure that out.

nn says


Sense of self originally (and in healthy mind) is just an image made (by evolution) by sensual experiences enhance to simplify thinking of one's own state - something especially useful when we primates and then monkeys started living in groups. It is just feedback system. Similarly to how senses experiencing effects of acting with your body can be thought of as feedback system. Sense of self is just internal feedback system - mostly using muscle tension so in fact something between external feedback (like observing yourself moving hand with your eyes) and purely internal that don't use actual physical senses (muscle tension is sensual experience).






Sense of self does not originate with sensual experience. Child  learns to differentiate self when identifying objects in the learning of language. I me mine, I me mine, I me mine, all through the day and nght.

"Thinking of one's own state" does not precede learning to think.

Most people tend to confuse what is really going on with what they think is going on. Putting the cart before the horse.

First the word self is invented, then it is applied. Jameson likens sense perception to a room in which a stage has been set, the lights placed just so, various props placed in various places and Here Cones Everybody, 



dhammapada, chapter one, v 1-6
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Mind precedes its objects. They are mind-governed and mind-made. To speak or act with a defiled mind is to draw pain after oneself, like a wheel behind the feet of the animal drawing it. 1

Mind precedes its objects. They are mind-governed and mind-made. To speak or act with a peaceful mind, is to draw happiness after oneself, like an inseparable shadow. 2

I have been insulted! I have been hurt! I have been beaten! I have been robbed! Anger does not cease in those who harbour this sort of thought. 3

I have been insulted! I have been hurt! I have been beaten! I have been robbed! Anger ceases in those who do not harbour this sort of thought. 4

Occasions of hatred are certainly never settled by hatred. They are settled by freedom from hatred. This is the eternal law. 5

Others may not understand that we must practice self-control, but quarrelling dies away in those who understand this fact. 6