The God - Discussion
The God
Everyone talks about God. I knew a buddha who said: "god, gods, devas, asuras, ghosts, spirits, souls... all superstitions". What kind of insight makes him think so? We have another master, Thich Nhat Hanh who said: "I think that God is everything. Suddenly, God is not an idea or a notion. God is very real." Can the buddhas disagree? That's not possible. One of them is not a buddha, or both of them are not buddhas. However, what is the final conclusion of truly awakened ones? Is there the God? Who is the God? I really want to know, because this question is hunting me for a long time. I am in great doubt. Don't make me sad with affirmation, negation, double affirmation and double negation concurrently. Peace!
Mindfulness Practicioner,修改在9 年前。 at 15-6-11 下午7:27
Created 9 年 ago at 15-6-11 下午7:27
RE: The God
帖子: 5 加入日期: 15-2-23 最近的帖子Mark,修改在9 年前。 at 15-6-12 上午2:35
Created 9 年 ago at 15-6-12 上午2:35
RE: The God
帖子: 551 加入日期: 14-7-24 最近的帖子
Hi Oliver,
Ignosticism has a good angle on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism
"God is everything" is pantheism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
All the debate seems to add strength to an ignostic view.
Ignosticism has a good angle on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism
"God is everything" is pantheism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
All the debate seems to add strength to an ignostic view.
Mindfulness Practicioner,修改在9 年前。 at 15-6-17 下午6:16
Created 9 年 ago at 15-6-17 下午6:16
RE: The God
帖子: 5 加入日期: 15-2-23 最近的帖子Mark,修改在9 年前。 at 15-6-18 上午1:18
Created 9 年 ago at 15-6-18 上午1:18
RE: The God
帖子: 551 加入日期: 14-7-24 最近的帖子Mindfulness Practicioner:
So you think buddhists mostly find God irrelevant. Why?
Hi,
I can't speak for buddhists and don't consider myself one. My understanding is that one of the fundamental insights of the Buddha is that there is no permanent self, i.e. no soul, spirit etc. Another fundamental insight is "dependent origination" which does not leave "room" for something like a christian god.
From an ignostic point of view you would need to define "god" before your question becomes a relevant question.
Mindfulness Practicioner,修改在9 年前。 at 15-6-18 上午1:55
Created 9 年 ago at 15-6-18 上午1:55
RE: The God
帖子: 5 加入日期: 15-2-23 最近的帖子Mark,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-23 上午6:32
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-23 上午6:32
RE: The God
帖子: 551 加入日期: 14-7-24 最近的帖子Mindfulness Practicioner:
Another fundamental insight is "dependent origination" which does not leave "room" for something like a christian god.
Buddhism provides a method for changing one's view/perspective. Meditation is a big (but not the only) part of that process. It seems that people come to a deep belief in dependent origination when following the Buddha's eightfold path.
Some rational explanation can be useful to help one start exploring. As we don't have the time to explore every mystic's claims. To begin with I thought of dependent origination as applying the principles of causality (cause and effect) and reductionism (dissecting experience into various components) to psychology from a 1st person perspective. It seemed close to the scientific method but looking "in" whereas science looks "out".
Darrell,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-25 下午6:24
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-25 下午6:24
RE: The God
帖子: 143 加入日期: 15-2-22 最近的帖子
More less in line with what others have said - I have always felt that the Buddha said there is not a God because he was rejecting the concept, and the beliefs it creates. It was a rejection of all those Hindu deities, and by extension, the Chrisitian gaseous invertabrate of astronimical heft. At the same time, there appears to be an indirect acknowledgement of a voidless void, a nothing that is no-thing, a sort of consciousness without an object. The uncreated, deathless, etc.
Eva Nie,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-25 下午8:11
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-25 下午8:11
RE: The God
帖子: 831 加入日期: 14-3-23 最近的帖子Mark:
It seems that people come to a deep belief in dependent origination when following the Buddha's eightfold path.
-Eva
Darrell,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-25 下午9:44
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-25 下午9:44
RE: The God
帖子: 143 加入日期: 15-2-22 最近的帖子
That's why it is of critical importance to not believe, but to take things without prior contempt or acceptance, and test them. And I've noticed that many people resist this, and it becomes a pressure upon others to simply accept what is taught, handed down, etc. I know in one of my first posts i expressed doubt about something on the path, and was told that doubt was a problem, an hindrance, and that it would lead to a lack of passion that would eventually lead me away from this forum, and this path.
Wow, huh?
I think a rigid doubt, a hardened skepticism is a hindrance, for sure. But to simply have doubt, and want to test things is healthy and neccesary. As we all know, the Buddha said as much.
DO, as with the three perceptions/marks/characteristics, the eightfold path, among others, can be tested and verified for one's self. But no one should ever take someone else's word for that. I feel if we don't find these things for ourself, by way of our own experience, then these things aren't as meaningful, and the realizations they might bring, would be shallow.
Wow, huh?
I think a rigid doubt, a hardened skepticism is a hindrance, for sure. But to simply have doubt, and want to test things is healthy and neccesary. As we all know, the Buddha said as much.
DO, as with the three perceptions/marks/characteristics, the eightfold path, among others, can be tested and verified for one's self. But no one should ever take someone else's word for that. I feel if we don't find these things for ourself, by way of our own experience, then these things aren't as meaningful, and the realizations they might bring, would be shallow.
Mark,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-26 上午2:23
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-26 上午2:23
RE: The God
帖子: 551 加入日期: 14-7-24 最近的帖子Eva M Nie:
Mark:
It seems that people come to a deep belief in dependent origination when following the Buddha's eightfold path.
-Eva
Hi Eva,
Prior to that sentence I wrote "Buddhism provides a method for changing one's view/perspective." I see beliefs as being true within a view/perspective. Hopefully that clarifies.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-26 上午8:40
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-26 上午8:39
RE: The God
帖子: 131 加入日期: 13-10-26 最近的帖子
The best description or idea of what God is (or points to) that I have found so far is that "God is a personification of reality" (Rev. Michael Dowd said it on BATGAP). Buddha seems to have been averse to the idea of external gods (ie: personifications) for a good reason, that it would hinder your enlightenement process and substitute internal inquiry for external devotion.
My own personal experience, which was my original awakening that destroyed the atheist persona, is that I am god. Not that this body/mind system or the previous persona is, but that I AM. Perhaps a better way to describe it is that God is me, and that "I" don't exist (it's just a figment of divine imagination, as Junpo Denis Kelly puts it). In this context there's no difference between God, the universe, the sum of existence and non-existence. I guess you could call it the non-dual recognition, that I AM everything, and that this everything is seemless.
My own personal experience, which was my original awakening that destroyed the atheist persona, is that I am god. Not that this body/mind system or the previous persona is, but that I AM. Perhaps a better way to describe it is that God is me, and that "I" don't exist (it's just a figment of divine imagination, as Junpo Denis Kelly puts it). In this context there's no difference between God, the universe, the sum of existence and non-existence. I guess you could call it the non-dual recognition, that I AM everything, and that this everything is seemless.
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg,修改在8 年前。 at 15-6-28 上午9:55
Created 8 年 ago at 15-6-28 上午9:55
RE: The God
帖子: 131 加入日期: 13-10-26 最近的帖子Paweł K:
Mattias Wilhelm Stenberg:
My own personal experience, which was my original awakening that destroyed the atheist persona, is that I am god. Not that this body/mind system or the previous persona is, but that I AM. Perhaps a better way to describe it is that God is me, and that "I" don't exist (it's just a figment of divine imagination, as Junpo Denis Kelly puts it). In this context there's no difference between God, the universe, the sum of existence and non-existence. I guess you could call it the non-dual recognition, that I AM everything, and that this everything is seemless.
Are you in state of divine union or not there yet?
It's not possible to be in a state outside of divine union, because that is all there is. This body/mind system is however not experiencing the full extent of that yet due to remaining blockages in the energy system as well as some contractions in the physical body.