After posting a mail on the AF music thread some members of this great forum asked me to write something about the path which led me to an Actual Freedom. It was always a big help to read and hear from people who have certain Attainments already and so I try my best( as far as my english goes) to mark some key stages.I try to keep it short so perhaps you just could ask or email for some more detailed information. I try to find some time to answer them. When it comes to details of practice or detailed descriptions of PCEs its surely a better way to ask Trent and Tarin cause they really doing an amazing job in helping out with subtle little details of practice.For me its really fresh, the final event happened on the 26 August and i see that the perception and the implications of this condition develop more and more each day the more one realizes that this mode of perception will stay and one can really go deep into it and check fully what this means for ones life. This is the biggest difference to a PCE which is much more static, you arent allowed to really play around cause the identity is lurking in the back trying to kick back in again. So PCE even if it lasts 3 days ( ive read something of 5 months possible on Richards AF site ?!?) isnt quite the same as AF. Also, after attaining AF the comparison to the Identity you had before isnt any longer possible ,cause you changed your mode of perception finally, you then have to examine other peoples behaviour to realize how it had been for you before attaining AF.Wheareas after a PCE it just slipped back in unchanged, but equipped with the drive to go there again to make this wonderful mode of perception permanent.

Before entering some kind of Path I remember seeing that many people including me are wasting their lifes in not living fully. During work and even during free time one is not enjoying life to the fullest, one dreams of beeing somewhere else or warms oneself up with loving feelings. So one possibility could think thats how it is we are born this way and were gonna die this way, its unchangeable or you start to change outside specifics, new girl, new Job, buying things , also doesnt work as we all know. I wasnt as couragous as incredible AF Richard in starting to pioneer new territory so I started to look around for some Preset solutions. One of those was buying a few books about Meditation.

In February 2010 I started to follow the instructions of a little Book about Vipassana , Watching the Breath Naming things etc. I always was a little nervous and restless and it seemed to help a little bit so I went on with my practice perhaps 15 minutes a Day. Sometimes I recognized thats really something happening (whatever it was it wasnt clear at that point) and I started to practice more and longer. I recognized thoughts and emotions arising and passing but wasnt on a sensation recognizing micro level at that time.More or less basic but this seemed to be really leading somewhere.
Around April 2010 I looked around on Youtube for Videos on Dharma Practice, I found a Video with a Talk of a Guy called Christopher Titmuss on Non Duality. Watching the Video and trying to understand what this guy was talking about kicked me into a different state of beeing for 2 days. It was totally different, overwhelming and I remember I havent slept 2 days seeing everything in great clarity thinking whatever this here is its that something everyone is looking for. After 2 days it ended up. Since then there was only one thing to do, finding out what this was and finding out if its possible to go back there ( At that point I never heard about PCEs).
I associated this event with Dharma and Buddhism, Meditation practice in particular.14 days later the abovementioned Dharma Teacher was giving a 7 day Silence Vipassana Retreat in a Country nearby, so I booked this Retreat with the Intention to talk to the Pro who hopefully knows something about this Event.

I entered the Retreat which was in Silence with the Teacher talking monologue at the Front like in School, and some 10 minutes talks One to One.Fortunately good Food and some nice People.(As far as i could figure out without talking to them ;-)) During one of the 10 minutes Talks the Dharma teacher rated my event as some kind of enlightenment experience and advised me to go on with practice. I meditated the whole week and it really took of (later I realized while reading Dans book that I crossed the Arise and Passing during this retreat). In the Evening after the Retreat i was loaded with Intention and Energy and read a little in Dans book which I had on my Laptop. I remember finding this book really direct with a punk attitude compared to the rather classical Retreat. I read the Instructions in the First Chapters and understood that I was already seeing this 3D TV kind of sensations and decided to take a rest. I layed down and instantly started to meditate without a choice really with a drive towards a goal so I thought okay I see what happens no matter what, and tried to catch all the sensations like Dan said in his book and go wherever it takes me. So I reclined and it went out to a 3 and a half hour meditation session, going nearly on his own with me half asleep, chakras popping open, whole chest rattling. In the End as far as I could remember some naming was very important like fear, fear, anticipation, anticipation, wanting etc. It ended with a cessation and Stream Entry. . Next day I checked everything written about this, cycled like a power plant and was totally sure that this was it. I thought when I could get this perhaps Its no problem to go on.Some basic suffering dropped away and i was equipped with the self- confidence which made me go on.This was a very important point. So Vipassana ride started (Which isnt so much fun I have to say in retrospect). You cant do nothing but find your way out of this irritating and confusing but also interesting ride.(To seek and to find; to explore and uncover; to investigate and discover ... these actions are the very stuff of life! Richard ) Compared to an Actual Freedom the progress of insight is like a drug nightmare I really have to say ;-) After Stream Entry I was infected with the Dharma stuff started to Hardcore Meditate, read books about it, practiced to enter all the Jhanas, Formless and had a few Nirodhas (which was as far as i could remember the most impressive of the meditation attainments).

I think at that time I had no more PCEs still only this first impressive one, so I thought the first one had been just some kind of ASC which comes and goes and nothing which could be made permanent. Dharma teachings also tell you this. The Agenda then was to finish this Dharma thing. I tried to finish second path and at that time then i was nerved by this cycling stuff and the need to finish it a second time. I then spent no interest in the circles and just went into jhana some times to chill out. After a few weeks I started to realize the Itness of things in Daily Life. I started to Realtime Render stuff. I asked myself who is this I my thoughts are pointing to, all of it was just it, the thought I was looking at, the I it was pointing too and the things I tried to look through. At that time realizations came fast. I sent out a mail to Dan who was a little sceptical of me having these attainments in very short time but he was nice and helpful and reminded me of his forum. I checked it out read some posts and realized that I somehow bypassed second path( or perhaps hit it while reclining, which in my opinion is absolutely possible) and instead hit the Anagami stage of the process. I checked Daniels Hurrican Ranch Discussion about Arhatship and completing the Circle which was incredible helpful to me. One of the Guys was talking about turning the light around instead of seeing the Itness of each and every little body sensation, this advice somehow did the trick for me, I tried to let my consciousness know of itself, did this a few hours and suddenly (like Chuck Kasmire called it) all was in one soup, a perspective shift took place, shortly after or simultaneously I entered another PCE ( I cant remember exactly). It was the same kind of Event like I had the first time, clear perspective, no irritation, no feelings arising, everything perfect. So I thought this now is Enligtenment it will stay( At this point I still didnt know that this is a PCE). After a perfect day I somehow saw that theres is no Attention wave anymore, I couldnt meditate, I thought something gone wrong, I started to try to catch it somewhere, find it somehow and after many hours I managed to go into Jhana again. What I recognized also was that Irritation, Fear and Feelings arose again. Everything wasnt so perfect as before. Clearly the Vipassana ride was over, feelings were no longer compelled but instead clearly seen, also not that sticky, perspective was still open but not as clear as in the other mode before. I was really confused about what the hell was going on. It was like two different personalities.

Few days later I came back to the Forum again, searched around a little bit and found Dans PCE vs Cycle Mode Discussion which mirrored exactly my experience at that time. I also read some descriptions about Arhat from guys like Chuck Kasmire, different Dharma Books and Ingram just to recheck again i was sure then yes this mode of Experience is Arhatship.There was clearly nothing more to do when it came to insight practice. I think this was the first time I realized that those first Experience I had and those second which had been going along with becoming an Arhat was called a PCE. PCEs could deliver what I expected of Enlightenment. I read around in the posts by Tarin and Trent and couldnt believe that this Condition, this mode of Perception is possible to make permanent.Very good news indeed.This was also a big step. So its very important to have those informations, which I cannot rate the possibilities of the Internet high enough for. Then I thought perhaps it will help me to listen to the Hurrican Ranch Discussion to trigger a PCE again which astonishingly worked out great. So i got back into PCE and had the 100 percent intent to stay there. I took a day off from my regular job and didnt went to sleep overnight cause I didnt want it to slip away and indeed it stayed for some more days, perhaps even for one two weeks. I thought I had it but after a while it seemed to diminish again but this time just a little, some nervousness arose, some fear and I started to Panic a little. Sometimes it seemed like PCE then again like not PCE, hard to say but it had the overall felicitious feeling tone all the way thru, but again I wanted this to sit 100 percent ( Later I read that this transitional stage is called Virtual Freedom).
Then the other Megahelpful Hurrican Ranch Discussion with Tarin came in handy ( Its such a phunky Discussion with Tarin giving really helpful hints and Dan always pushing to go back to practice advise, really worthy listen). There were some points which really were the final clues for me, first the thing with the Time, no absolute thing moving. This is seen just a little in a PCE but in AF its really the way you live, like someone pushed the real world time brake, Time slips away with desire. Then Tarin talked about really exposing oneself, crossing this border, maximizing those feelings, not beeing afraid of seeming foolish, this is were the wonder starts, he says it was one point where he was just heading into wonder. The most useful thing I found the mention that if the PCE desolves just go back to happy and harmless instead of panicing, also the clue that its the best for you but also for all others if your happy and not irritated I found really important. I gives much more drive if you clearly see that its good for all to finish this. After listening to this I went straight into wonder, could work out to really feel excellent nearly all the time, formerly known difficult situations were the best to test the thing even more. After about one week (in this week I started to read thru the AF Trust Homepage for the first time which also helped cause there were some descriptions of people getting Actually free beginning of the year which also helped) something happened which was a little bit like the drive just before a cessation at the End of Equinimity, the thing took care of itself, a different dynamic, the body moving on its own in this great playground which is our universe, really seeing how you try your best in interaction with people without the usual morality, total effortlessness, new way of beeing, enjoy the show ...After perhaps 3 four days of this I laid on my sofa and suddenly there was a little moment, not even a blip, for one moment i had the thought oh look im here in this room with my Computer and this Chair. Something was different. The Identity slipped away silently. From that moment on Apperception happened all the time, effortlessly with no Identity sitting in the back watching, letting you stay in PCE for limited time.The Veil which seperated you from the world is totally gone, theres no inside anymore, no introversion, no hiding place.. I waited a few days before I posted this cause I wanted to be 100 percent sure, which I am now.

Fortunately the whole process happened in a very short time and somehow it wasnt too bad that I never got too much into Theory I would say afterwards. Now its a great pleasure to read Richards interpretations of this Mode of Perception (this universe experiencing itself ;-) ) but during the Process I hadnt read too much, I just went on, but this could be different for each and everyone. At the End its a much more preferable, wonderful Mode of Perception which is made permanent which is much more than I ever thought could be possible this lifetime.If someone would ask me I would say do this, get this done, it seems like it gets the best out of the human beeing. Its also entered by people who werent enlightened so I would say it has nothing to do with enlightenment and Dharma Teachings but the final result of it is what I thought Enlightenment would deliver. Sorry for my bad English, I hadnt written for some years now, try my best to help you out !

.

this looks promising.


*




just to clarify: did the event you described here (in which were laying on a sofa and and looking at a computer and chair, and the identity slipped away silently, and after which apperception happened all the time) happen on the 26th of august?




it is indeed fortunate to go from being besotted by misery and riddled with unfulfilled expectations to being effortlessly happy and harmless in such a short time.. and that such a transition is possible is itself a testament to how wonderful life on this planet can truly be, here and now.

further, achieving an actual freedom does demonstrate how it is possible, far from merely being 'fully human', to be an excellent human being.

if you have actually accomplished this, then i am suitably pleased.

i sent a brief reply to your 10th of august email on the 26th, then another one (this time full-length) on the 4th of september, but have not received a response. did you receive both my replies? if not, please send me another email from a different email address, and perhaps we could set up a time to have a conversation, if you are willing, as i would like to hear more about your experiences and how things are for you now.

tarin

Hi Tarin ! Pleasure to meet you.



Exactly.



Yes got them both. When I wrote the first mail I was in the not PCE, PCE inbetween territory. Attention wave was absent all the way thru. I was pretty close then. After the final event on the 26. it was clear that it wasnt quite 100 percent done before. I answered to your second email right on the next day, 5th September and potrayed this ( now mailed it to you again via another email address)



Yes





Amen to that. Ok. I tried to keep it down to Earth to perhaps not make it look that hard to archive. But youre right its absolutely incredible that such a change is possible. Its the only thing that is known which really transforms your life. The thing which really should be done to show ones appreciation for living on this incredible planet.




Sure Pleasure. We could chat here on this forum or elsewhere or you we could telephone ( could be a little bit troublesome with me trying to express thoughts in English in realtime on the phone ;-);-) but yes sure )

WAS FÜR EIN EINZIGARTIGES LEBEN AUF DIESEM EINMALIGEN PLANETEN !

And another one. Popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm they are. I do so hope to be able to give my "How I achieved an actual freedom from the human condition" post in the near future. This shit is far, far too played out. Feeling really life-worn and worn out like an only pair of sneakers.

Big up Lil´ S for Sophistication Rich man. Youre right man, situation gets serious 20 outta 6,7 Milliarden of those muthafucks got rid of the Human Condition, seems like they really spreading out like shit. Be careful man, shit is fucked. Youre right this Ballhaus report is really shit like old sneaks man it isnt even possible for this fucking German pal to write something subtle in our great fucking eastcoast native english man. But i got a lil`something for ya man. Perhaps you start to imitate some actual caring man, start with altruism and regard to your fellow human beeings you lil bitchass, then perhaps incredible Woman Thread Rich could come up with something substantial like perhaps archieving an AF himself and then you write some wicked badass dope lyrics about it on this crap forum full of wimp ass meditating flesh and blood bodies without any soul in their bones man.

Yes, really amazing that only 20 people have done what can apparently be done in less than a year! Almost unbelievable! Really almost silly and unsensibly incredible!

Also a relief to know that the buddha language style that Tarin adopted isn't a must :-)

Welcome Bruno. Yeah thats true. And lets see if Actual Freedom gets more attention in the near future.And also we will see if the Number of People getting actually free will be bigger then the short amount of people who attained Arhat. Tarin really does an amazing Job in helping people with their stuff i really like his style a lot. But hence English isnt my native language I cant really express all those subtly little details like Tarin and Trent. On the other hand perhaps some fellow human beeings feel more attracted to AF when they see that you havent to adopt any kind of language after getting Actually Free. So perhaps thats my little part here. Hope youre doing good with your practice Bruno.

It is very sweet of you to have missed the slight tinge of irony in the first sentence of my last post However, I was pointing out that maybe, just maybe, Richard was far from the first dude getting this, and his "third alternative" thing is just lack of understanding of the 2500 year old contemplative tradition, together with Richard's tendency towards the "save-the-world" type?

Maybe in order to get actually free you really need to go through the 4-paths developmental enlightenment, and get your energetic development advanced enough? Which doesn't make it a third alternative at all, but instead just a natural continuation of what we already had?

Namely dzogchen, mahamudra, etc, all seem to have this PCE element imbued in the later stages. Maybe "the way the realized mind stays", considered the highest and most definite attainment of mahamudra-style tibetan buddhist (in fact, the very definition of enlightenment), is simply the "PCE"?

Maybe this whole "peace-on-earth" trip actualists have going for themselves is simply the exact same "peace-on-earth" trip buddhists have had all along? Maybe beginning a new tradition from scratch is a foolish thing since it misses out on all the knowledge of the past? (although I am all for the pragmatic use of language which one finds in Actualism but not so much anywhere else)

LMFAO !! That made me laugh so hard. Inspiring post by the way.

And a good day to you too, sir.



20 already? I thought it was closer to around 10.



Shit is indeed quite fucked. But I'm not trying to be careful(l), man. I'm trying to be care-free, man!



I don't know what or who you are agreeing with because I never said or suggested this or what your roughian vernacular translates to in the more common and conservative english.



So, start with altruism and regard for fellow human beings ... and then call them a "lil bitchass"? I don't know about the urban jungle over their in Germany but refering to someone you are talking to in these neck of the words as "you lil bitchass" conotes anything but actual caring, altruism and regard for fellow human beings.



Who knows what I'll be doing if/when I achieve an actual freedom. But writing to "meditating flesh and blood bodies without any soul in their bones man"? You mean flesh and blood bodies without any soul in their bones like you and Trent and Tarin (and if so, what is the need to meditate?) Or do you mean meditating flesh and blood bodies without Soul (as in "Soul Brother", "Soul Music", "Cool", "Sexy", "Swagger")?

I think something may have been lost in translation when I replied to your post. I wasn't trying to affront you or be in any way cynical about your contribution. After reflecting on how all these actually free people are beginning to pop up like mushrooms after 12/13 years since Richard went public about his discovery, I felt a bit inspired. And then I reflected on how "this shit is far too played out." As in my life being played out ... the same old, same old. And how beaten and tired I feel.

I wonder if you understood this. Because it seems as you were taking the piss. Making fun. Mocking. Attempting to hurt. Were you?

And what's the Darth Vader reference about, if I may ask?

???????? Right....

A fellow of mine said:

Ce la vie?

Hello Christian,

Congratulations on your outstanding success (same to you Trent!), as it appears that there is (yet) another occasion for celebration; it also appears that you have already forgotten how serious 'we' folk - still within the human condition - can (and do) take ourselves (at times)... and good for you.

Just one (trivial) suggestion, though... language for 'us' is still highly loaded with emotional shades and colors, therefore, playfulness (via this route) may not always be as collaborative and harmonious as you'd like (particularly when these words denote an intent defined by a cultural/colloquial stranglehold of sorts) and somehow gets lost in translation; hence, you may want to go a bit easy on the slang (for awhile), even if, like ManZ A, I found your post worthy of a 'LMFAO'.

I've certainly enjoyed (and benefited greatly from) your contributions here; thank you so much for sharing.

Please spread the excellence - and party on dude!

Regards,
Gabriel

Hey Rich !! I read you last posts and also the woman thread. And my interpretation of your writing was that youre trolling the forum.So i thought I answer the joke with a joke. So If I were wrong with that interpretation welcome ! Sorry for my misinterpretation then.

Darth Vader is just because my preference for the Empire strikes back, nothing personal. ;-)

20 was a guess, perhaps might be around 10.



;-)




As I said I was joking cause I understood that youre trying to troll the forum. Sorry for that. Youre welcome.

Vineeto and Peter didnt went thru the 4 paths as much as I understood.It s perhaps easier for Enligtened beeings to go to AF, just because they already have some abilitys which make it easier to finish it like tuning their minds in a skillfull way, prepared to experimenting and even perhaps to harm themselves, be willing to cross a final border.



No its not the same. As the final result of Buddhist practice, the enlightened beeing, youre not happy and harmless. Youre not unworried its a whole different thing. Richard points that as an Actually freed human beeing youre the personified peace on earth cause the instinctual passions which are the root cause of wars etc..are gone. Dont know which Peace on Earth trip actualist like Trent, Tarin and Ballhaus have youre speaking of. But as I said in my report I wouldnt spent so much time thinking about those things as better to go back to happy and harmless and cultivating the PCE.

Perhaps slightly exaggerated ..

Youre welcome. It is indeed a success and I would like you to join in.



Thanks for this pointer. I will.



Great. Pleasure.

Thank you for your well wishes.

It seems that 90-99%% of people I come across everyday or read about or hear about are, at the core of their being, in the Dark Night (if Dark Night is a term referring to a kind of depression, dark-cloud-on-top-of-the-head kind of experience) to a greater or lesser extent. This seems to be the norm. I used to think everyone was unhappy but me. Now, I look around and see everyone's face as exhibiting at least some kind of emotional discomfort ... and see that a lot of people are in a very, very dark place (much darker compared to where I am at) and have grown so accustomed to it that they don't even notice it -- or try not to notice it. It's a kind of numbness, I think (something I can relate to as I still experience this numbness to the pain). And this numbness, which may or may not be a conscious effort to dull the intensity of the pain (and may just be a practical temporary solution when dealing in the hustle-and-bustle marketplace), can be a big obstacle towards actually solving this whole rotten mess as one can't really, really, fully, completely look at the pain (to whatever degree) ocurring inside one.

There is, for me, an always present dark cloud over my head. Sometimes the clouds will get thin or even break apart a bit and let that sweet sunshine through. Othertimes it will become dense, very dark, hang low and start violently hurling rain, hail, lightening, and booming thunder. Most often though, it's a long stretch of grey cloud covering every bit of the sun and the blue and just sits there in the sky above my head. One tries to throw a good barbecue in these conditions but it's just not the same as one thrown on a gorgeous, open skyed early June day! Something is just ... not quite right.

Although were now going really off topic I searched around the AF site. Richard has some experience with fellow human beeings suffering from Depression etc. He has something to say about Actualism in relationship to this. That might help and point some things out :

http://actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/frequentquestions/FAQ32.htm

Hi Ballhaus,

That link you posted does not work. Does the page still exist? Or is it just me?

*cough* nvm

Christian, Guilherme and Luciano are "parasites" too (they have an "I").
And the best way to "murder" someone or something is not by killing, but changing it to another direction. Even unintended.
Sometimes is necessary to remember people about the past to avoid the same old path, hence, that "slightly exaggerated" warning was and will be useful again.
Bon voyage,

Luciano

Hi Luciano,

dont really understand what your on about. Could you please elaborate a bit. What is your warning exactly about ?!? What is it that you would like to point out ?

Thanks

Hi Luciano !

The parasite which Richard calls the " I " and " Me" a.k.a " the Thinker" and " the Feeler" are already " murdered" since the 26. of August, "murdered" perhaps might be an irratating word choice. If you see in a PCE that you dont need it, if you look through the illusion which makes it up you gather your intent to totally get rid of it, archieving an Actual Freedom. And life is much much better nowadays. I get ten times more out of it. But your free to chose. You can see in a PCE if you think its a better way of beeing or not. If you dont prefer it you dont need to go there.

Christian Ballhaus


Excuse me, but how do you know this? I have a great respect for Daniel and MCTB but I would not be so quick to say that Daniel is a fully enlightened being on par with the Buddha. Since the whole point of Buddhist practice is seeing through the illusion of self, I would say that you were not enlightened in the Buddhist sense, though you indicate that you were and it wasn't enough. I would question this assumption. You wrote:



This indicates that your experience very much still had a sense of 'I'

You actually got much closer to Buddhist enlightenment by embracing AF since the PCE is a direct mode of perception without self. In Buddhism, enlightenment is a permanent insight (note insight, not experience) into not only the non-self of self but the non-self of everything (world). Does your experience carry with it an insight that the self never actually truly existed, that experience has always been no-self, and that the world that you directly perceive is likewise completely empty of self (on a micro and macro scale). Does your experience incorporate all of these permanent insights? If so, then you are enlightened in the Buddhist sense. If not, then you're not.

Although the joke may have hit a nerve for Rich, I also second the "LMAO"

Especially this part which has a real amusing irony to it: "meditating flesh and blood bodies without any soul in their bones man."

I appreciate your sense of humor and your contribution to this crap forum.

It might be useful to mention that Luciano and Rich are both ‘helping friends’ – to borrow an expression from Bruno – that arrived here from another forum, which used to be the most active apropos actualism (prior to mushroom-popping evidence that the condition of Actual Freedom is replicable); therefore, unaware of our backgrounds, your ‘misinterpretation’ of Rich, facetiously handled, came across as rather sarcastic to Rich (at first) and Luciano (still), it seems.

Having had only one down-to-earth manumission to go by (in my case, for about seven years), and accustomed to that particular individual’s personal style, your eccentricity is apparently met with skepticism by this brother-from-another-mother of mine… so, a question to Luciano:

Do you see Christian as a threat to actualism per se, or just to your practice of it?

Regards,
Gabriel

P.S. I’m reminded of a scene from the recent film Crazy Heart:

Jeff Bridges’ character: I just sent what might be my best song ever to Tommy.

Robert Duvall’s character: To record?

JB: Yes.

(…)

RD: Well I hope he don't fuck it up.

JB: He can't fuck it up. It's that good.

Back again from enjoying life as it is ! Hey its all good, im chatting with Rich S at the moment and solved the thing with him on an email basis and tried to sent over some instructions. So my little not so well received joke led to a good thing ;-)

Hi Michael ! Buddhist practice doesnt see through the illusion of self it just projects the self into some greater truth. I just can play what is in front of me. And all people I heard of were just enlightened in the MCTB sense Arhatship. It might be that the Buddha has archived something different than Chuck, Dan or Me, but this will be very hard to figure out. So the MCTB style Arhatship is what is there to work with. It also might be that the Buddha would have had some serious problems and arising nervousness in a modern day working environment like lets say as a Doctor, an investment brooker or a travelling DJ.



Michael. I had insight in the complete Emptiness/Nonsense- Self/Truth/ Divine LOVE/Void etc Delusion. Its an ASC nothing more and nothing less. Its the biggest trick of the self ever, you push it so hard thru meditation that it blows itself up and kicks itself in the biggest state of self delusion of grandeur ever. Divine Love.Couldnt it be that the Buddha hadnt found the complete way to bring the Ego to an End but Richard did. By the way youre not the one who will judge if i were enlightened in the buddhist sense or not monsieur ;-)

AHH now I see ;-) Thanks for the clarification Gabriel. Great to have you here. I will now go to the local Video shop and rent this Crazy Heart Movie cause one of my main priorities prior to attaining an Actual Freedom from the Human Condition was to see all movies involving Jeff Bridges. Having the one finished I can now go back gather up my pure intent and finish the other. Thanks GAb !

I love happy endings...

-- Richard (On the AF site: http://actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/frequentquestions/FAQ32.htm)



This scares me. Anyone else?

One thing to understand about the DSM IV is that its used for diagnosing abnormal psychology which is typically thought of as mental disorder. AFAIK it and the entire fields of psychology and psychiatry have no diagnostic criteria for perfection, but they also don't have any place to fit enlightenment or buddhahood either. If they tried they'd probably end up labeling them something abnormal too, because in a sense that's what all of this is - deviation from the norm. I'm not a shrink this is just my opinion.

Anyway if you achieved some incredible state of perfection and were diagnosed that way, wouldn't you find it tempting to tell people about it? I know I would relish the opportunity.

Craig

This year I went to a dreadful Karma-Kagyü congress down in Bochum. There was a world class neurologist who did some tests with the boss of the deluded Karma-Kagyü Crew. He claims to be Enlightened and pure light and whatever..Lets say its true as a working hypothesis. They put him in a high end machine ( I think there are two of those apparillos on our whole planet) and examined his brain. At the end all that the world class neurologist could say about his tests was that the results were totally different then everything he saw before.Not so bad hä ;-) He seemed to be a very honest guy and said that at least science doesnt know much about the brain, no details just some basic things. He also claimed that you couldnt see anything specific thru this tests just the on and off switch on some parts of the brain. He should know, he seemed to be a real expert. Could be the same with this particular example. Just go see for yourself. Induce the PCE. Youre not gonna be in AF all at once so I wouldnt cultivate those fearful doubts before that. And theres always a little risk in everything above mediocrity isnt it. Its often the same with science ( not speaking of medication and aeroplanes ;-)). They put loads of money in finding out what you already knew as an inquiring human beeing.

The real essence of Buddhist realization can be summed up as:

There is thinking, no thinker
There is sound, no hearer
Suffering exists, no sufferer
Deeds there are, no doer

Sorry but neither you or Richard understand Buddhism very well :/ What he is talking about as divine love and all those things is not Buddhism but rather the nondual traditions that aim for union with God. Emptiness is totally different as it's a negation of concepts and not a Void or anything like that. Emptiness means that everything is interdependent and nothing exists on its own. That's it. If you had insight into that then you would not need to seek AF. Richard thinks he discovered no-self but it's always been there in the Buddha's teachings. Emptiness and no-self realizations are definitely not self-delusions. I'm glad you experience non-doership though, that's very good,but jumping on Richard's bandwagon that he's the first person to realize no-self is rather silly given that Buddhist teachers have been talking about the same thing for centuries.

Oh my God. The Usual Buddhist Song. I answer this later.

Is that anger? annoyance? I thought you were free from emotions

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that you are mistaking the Buddhist enlightenment for a stage on the path. If you are feeling open to learning more, you can check out my friend's write up on Buddhism and AF http://www.box.net/shared/sbyi64jrms

I'd love to hear Christian's or anyone else actually free's take on this

I looked into it a while back and concluded it was based on insufficient experience with AF to make a useful comparison

[edited to tone down the criticism]

as, on page 22 of your friend's write up on buddhism and af, it is written:

'Update: Thusness just informed me that emotions still arise on some occasions, and that he has as-of-yet not completed his path, however emotions (if and when they do arise) recoils/self-liberates/subsides as soon as they arise.'

..then it is clear that neither its author (xsurf/an eternal now) nor the authority on which his write up is based (thusness) know what an actual freedom from the human condition is.

assuming christian is actually free, your rejoinder (that he should read that article to learn more) lacks substance.

tarin

hmm.. and feelings there are, (but) no feeler, eh?

No Man its the pure enjoyment of this business called beeing alive in all kinds of bizarre situations. Like in this case thinking " Oh God whatever I will answer to Michael it will be hopeless ;-) !" And then while writing " Oh my God the Usual Buddhist Song" laughing silently benevolant, to myself and starting to answer nevertheless. By the way you said



So you implied that neither Richard nor me dont understand Buddhism very well. And then you called my misunderstood assumption silly. So I have to give the question back again. Is that anger ? Is that Annoyance ? As for me I can answer clearly NO, because in AF the affective faculty is gone with the wind. So I would beg you to come up with something substantial next time, with something you experienced for yourself like perhaps enlightenment and not with talk about concepts you guess youve understood.

Exactly. Michael left out that tiny little all decisive point.

It's very interesting how tone seems to get mismatched by text. The tone I'm taking for this discussion is a technical, curious one.



From just the words, the tone I get from that is a bit annoyed, slightly angry, and accusative. However, I'm sure that's not the case. It seems my ability to empathize is going awry regarding AF people when communicating with text. Having played around with some voice recordings in the last couple of days, perhaps it might be a good idea to experiment with that? Here is my recording to test it:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9074238/Recordings/7d5e1cc37da16b71bb8f3e96a4b7c935ee60d31b.mp3

What mood do I feel? Answer is below (it might be a good idea to write down the impression before you reveal what I actually felt, as not to bias the results):

(I'm slightly nervous when doing it, but only mildly, is that picked up by the tone? It seems however I'm in a vipassana cycle of fear, however that has been tuned to the background as I've been focusing on the external world's wonders, this wasn't Fear fear, this was nervousness from public speaking, slightly different quality. This is white as not to bias the results)

Hi Michael ! Would be great if the feeler also wouldnt be there cause he is the real problem which causes suffering and as you write yourself "suffering exists". In an Actual freedom there is no suffering. Isnt that preferable ?!? The thinker/hearer is still there in Enlightenment as opposed to an Actual freedom, but he did a trick he hided himself at the core of his beeing very save in the fortress of his instinctual passions projecting himself onto some greater truth, generating loads of love and compassion to perpetuate suffering in the world, writing crap books with the word"heart "in their titles ;-), demanding devotion and respect from his followers he spreads the word to while devoting himself to god by the name void, the eternal whatever






Thats true Buddhism is hard to understand.Especially the 12 links and their relationship to the 5 aggregates.They caused some sleepless nights to me. While in this Actual World I sleep like a baby. But thats how it is cause Buddhism hasnt done its job a.k.a. bringing suffering to an end properly and so there are lots and lots of different constructs which are needed for sublimation of this whole mess. Really hard to understand even for Richard who was enlightened for 11 years. Its so hard to understand that even premier league buddhist differ in their opinions. And like in every belief system there are lots of subdivision which all lead to same ASC as their final result.But is it a good thing if something is so damn complicated ?



Yep and the flickering sensations lead you to assuming such a thing. Seeing the beyond. The web of interconnectedness.But its a delusion in it self, cause the flickering sensations dont show up a bigger truth but a distortion of perception. When you see the Emptiness of everything you perhaps then see the Absolute and so on and so on. While from that point of view my car is lacking inherent substance not existing on its own apart from relations and conditions in AF I just drive the car, girl on the other seat , enjoying the wind in my hairs and experiencing the infinitude and perfection of this boundless universe while enjoying the wonder, the riddle of the world solved, palpable. No need for such emptiness sublimations. The seperation from this material universe is just gone. PUFF. And what a way to live, what a way to live..




You also could have said if youre still suffering theres no need to seek the end of suffering.





and so on and so on

Christian and all the so-called and self-proclaimed Actual Freedom men and women here are adding new data into actualism´s method. And this stuff also needs to be put on scrutiny. Intellectual and experiential analysis and criticisms, indeed.

About my practice, with sure it is not your own actualist practice, even following the same emulation method and goals.
We all have idyossincracies and different backgrounds.
I repeat: perfection is impossible, only freedom from the mind´s neurobiological maze is allowed. This is the last blockage, or frontier, to live and die without fear and love ruling our actions.
Glimpses of that unitary state of the body and mind - yet to be catalogued - is great and amazing helpful for all, but not enough due its subjectivity and transience.

To wake up another fellows, first you need to be awake before and never sleep again.
Get out of the dreams.

This is my current process and practice.
But maybe I´m wrong and this is not the right place for skeptical and atheist people like me.

Hi Luc, i just would like to remind you that Richard is also an self- proclaimed Actual Freedom man. But one who had your license to get Actually Free. One you made a God out of. Now other humans getting Actually Free. What did you expect, that they queueing to pass your specially crafted Actual Freedom exam ?!? ;-) Better go on with your own thing than to be sceptical of others, wish you good luck for that.

> Hi Luc,

Hi Chris,


> i just would like to remind you that Richard is also an self- proclaimed Actual Freedom man.

Of course, I´m also an self-proclaimed Virtual Freedom man


> But one who had your license to get Actually Free.

Not license, but respect. His AF website really catch my attention years ago. However, I still having many agreements and many disagreements with Richard, my fellow.


>One you made a God out of.

Funny... I´m atheist and perfection and stillness (i.e. God) doesn´t exist.


>Now other humans getting Actually Free.

Freedom of speech is great! Viva la Internet!


>What did you expect, that they queueing to pass your specially crafted Actual Freedom exam ?!? ;-)

No. It is enough their answers.


>Better go on with your own thing than to be sceptical of others, wish you good luck for that.

I pass (don´t need luck or jinx in this task).
Auf Wiedersehen,

Luciano

If you mean emotions, then an Arhat does not have those technically, though in the Mahayana, the enlightened models say that compassion is a necessity and comes from realizing the emptiness of phenomena, and the realization that self is empty does not bring about this compassion. Though you may be wondering, well isn't compassion just an emotion? I don't see it that way.

It's more like a motivation. All actions have motivations behind them and these motivations are automatic and interconnected with many different elements. They also stem from our experience of the world and which is conditioned by our beliefs about who we are in relation to the world. If you believe that you are a human body, a nervous system or whatever, then your beliefs lead you to enjoy the senses and just indulge in activities. [And that really is a belief because human body is just a concept that you learn growing up.] But once that belief is dropped, that I am this body, then there can be a more direct experience of the relationship between this vantage point, this position, and other beings. From that experience stems motivation to want them to experience the freedom that you have gained, and that's how I see compassion.

I just like the Mahayana point of view, that's why I felt the need to explain it.

The thinker/hearer is not still there in enlightenment and this is where you misunderstand what enlightenment is. Buddhist enlightenment is truly not resting in some absolute state of presence where you are separate from everything. That's Advaita or something else, You are not talking about realization of no-self or realization of emptiness. Emptiness is not God, nor is it Void, nor is it eternal. Emptiness is simply the very nature of phenomena which is completely free of concepts. This does not mean that there is a Being behind phenomena, or that phenomena all come from an eternal source. There is only phenomena, and that's it. And phenomena, wow, what vividness and luminosity and directness! Since there is no separation or self, there is only World and what a World it is.

I am only responding to your earlier claim that Buddhism leads to a delusional state, but so far you have been talking about something completely different.



You've never heard much of Mahamudra or Zen have you? Those direct teachings are all about experiencing the vividness and nakedness of reality directly.

Theravada is supposed to reach that directness somehow I think, I'm not sure because I don't really practice Theravada. I'm actually more connected with Zen and Mahamudra. Those teachings go for the direct experience first and then they realize the emptiness of self/phenomena later. AF is about experiencing the directness, and AF is a very good teaching, I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not new. That directness is also a goal for Buddhist practitioners, at least it should be.

A good quote from Ven. Jinmyo Renge osho Dainen-ji http://www.wwzc.org/Jinmyo_osho/Tada.html


Christian, do you recognize any of these experiences described on this site?
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

But there is more to the article than just that one line. Immediately following that line, and which is pretty pertinent to the matter at hand:



I didn't come here to knock AF. It's a very good practice. I am only responding to Christian's claim that he experienced Buddhist enlightenment and went beyond it. That is just not the case.

How do you get a tone from just the words? I mean, if his words described an emotional state, then you could extrapolate a possible tone that would suggest that emotion. If you look at other words (not quoted by you), in fact, he does describe being happy and enjoying the experience. So, probably the tone he would use to speak the written words would be a happy tone. Unless of course, he's lying, or deluded or something - in which case it would be a sorta happy tone with a subtle "I'm hope you don't find out that I'm lying" tone underneath.

At any rate, since you have a voice recorder, you could try reading the words you quoted in a happy tone and notice that not only is it possible, it may actually be more accurate to the intended meaning of the words. You could also do it in a sad tone, a silly tone, a gorilla tone, or many other tones. If you find you can only imagine one possible tone, then you're probably just lacking creativity.

By the way, my feeling right now, as I write this is pretty darn happy, totally enjoying this incredibly fascinating thread and all the exciting words being discussed in this discussion. I mean, how cool... we're talking about freedom from the human condition! How awesome is that! So, I guess you could say I'm enjoying myself. Although I'm not speaking right now, the tone I would probably use would sound sorta like this: "Yeeeeaah!!!! Uh... duh duh duh duhhhhh... uh huh! oh yeah."

But, the reason I mention this at all is that once I first discovered that Tarin and Trent claim to be free from emotions and happy and harmless, I stopped projecting my own imaginative nonsense onto them and started projecting what they actually describe as their experience onto them. Surprisingly, I found their written statements much more intelligible, useful, and enjoyable. So, you can try that too if you like.

Best,

Daniel

Indeed… yet do you actually think (as you seem to be implying) that VF and (especially) AF people become biased to the point of not evaluating (and merely dismissing) any and all discrepancy within the data? If so, it begs the question as to what type of freedom we are chasing after here (not being free of such prejudice)? Hmm... and you would not be the first to think this, remember Harman?

In Richard’s own words:



*



Of course, whereas I saw a Unicorn, for example, you saw an Equus Caballus Unicornius (or some such thing ;-)… but they are both illusions, are they not? So, in essence, as long as we’re speaking about human beings, the ‘idiosyncrasies and different backgrounds’ are peripheral, not substantial, wouldn’t you agree?



An imperfect freedom, eh… I see, it doesn’t sound quite as appealing, but much more scholastic, and no respectable philosopher/ontological scholar would disregard this hypothesis, I think. Now, would you mind elucidating just why ‘perfection is impossible’? However, so as to be more specific, consider the following:



Would you be kind enough to explain to moi – but not in the human concept of perfection way – just what makes this ‘Utter security’ not so…um…utter? What should ‘I’ remain uncertain about? What can still go wrong (in an ultimate sense)? What should ‘I’ continue to fear by ‘being’ incomplete and separate (albeit 'without fear (...) ruling actions')?



Well, maybe you are wrong… if this were the case, however, do you actually think your fellow Gabriel would remain quiet about it? No sir, just as I’m sure Luciano would not if Gabriel were in the wrong (like has happened before)... either way, remaining happy and harmless is more important to the both of us (¿no?) – which in itself should eventually (i.e., as time is a blessing not a curse) take care of any quibbles or squabbles between us – pretty amazing, eh?

Regards,
Gabriel

P.S. I will be attending a wedding (not mine!), in Dallas, Texas, (sorry Trent and Manz A... I'd invite y'all but 'spreading the love' is a requirement ;-), and so I may not be able to reply for awhile.

Very easily: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MsZb8mYFoCs/SX6Euq2GxbI/AAAAAAAAEtI/5jur3Ejf9hA/s800/28aki86.jpg



Aye, he does mention that, what I'm saying is that for some reason when I read what people say it seems MY ability to understand what they are intending to say seems to be impaired, and this seems to be especially so with AF. It seems my mind automatically extrapolates certain emotional states, and yet it seems the AF people claim not to have any, so there seems to be in error somewhere in translation, and I think it's empathy trying to understand nonemotionality.

I'm proposing that perhaps a different way of communicating would be better, by voice recording. It seems that from the Ranch Discussion that the delight was obvious in how they spoke. Perhaps this would make it easier to communicate? I think it's worthy of investigation.

If you mean so. I never said that i went beyond enlightenment. I claimed that I got Actually free after beeing enlightened. And that I found this preferable. Its hard to go on with this discussion cause you seem to be in it in a rather theoretical way and havent realized that what the different traditions talk about lead to the same ASC. So I stop for now. All the best Michael, nice to have you here.

Don´t matter Gabriel, because any elucidation from mine will be a "human concept" to you.
If I had put a label over me like "I´m actually free since last week", perhaps...

However, I´m here to spoil dreams, even that dreams hidden under the utter security of transcendent sophisms.
For each head, a sentence.
And please read my words here like a counterpoint.
Sincerely,

Luciano

Yeah, that's what I thought you were saying. I was suggesting a possible way to break the habit pattern with the use of the creative faculty of mind, a bit of open-minded curiosity, and a thorough investigation of the descriptions offered. Whatever it is for you, I wish you success.

Having done a lot of training in empathy for my former career as a life-coach, I find my empathic skills at feeling out AF people have led to very cool insights. There is something very cool happens for me when trying to feel what it's like to be without feeling.

Best,

Daniel

But of course, that's most of my time in the day ;-), however I found that having auditory feedback seems to be important and makes getting into the PCE easier. That's why I was playing around with the voice recorder the other day. It allows me to work out personal issues as they come up, and the voice is a good object to ground yourself when the occasional confusion the mind likes to bring up hits, it's a way to reorient oneself into the actual world.



I'll try that out some more. When reading the AF site awhile back there was this section on how Richard is not the words he's writing, which is pretty obvious that the tone of voice is absent and there is no social projection of a person, just the sensate words in front of you on the computer screen.

The other post was more to communicate in general to people not doing the practice, since meaning is lost. Awell. :-P

Oh, gotcha. Totally. It's a good topic anyway for anyone.

Enjoy yourself

no, you are not 'only responding to Christian's claim that he experienced Buddhist enlightenment and went beyond it'; you are trying to fit your concept of an actual freedom from the human condition into your framework of buddhist enlightenment based on the authority of a buddhist teacher who has erroneously mapped actual freedom into the stages/phases of his experiences of enlightenment, despite there being, available to all those who can read and reason, a public record which clearly shows that he does not know what an actual freedom is:



hence, what then follows in that article, which you quote at length above, is 'pertinent to the matter at hand' only in its further demonstration that thusness lacks an understanding of what instinctual passions are and arise from, as well as lacks any experience of the event that results in their utter and complete absence. contrary to his false assertion, an actual freedom from the human condition is not 'the realization of Anatta'; an actual freedom from the human condition is the total extirpation of the root of the instinctual passions, which extirpation leaves no 'grayscale of no-self' whatsoever. with the extirpation of being, there is no self/Self/no-self; instinctual passions simply do not arise, ever, because there is nothing for them to arise from. in an actual freedom, the condition on which the passions, both active and latent, depended for their existence is gone - dead as the dodo (extinct as a species, rather than expired as a specimen).

yet rather than continue to speculatively infer about what actual freedom and enlightenment are and aren't, it would be more fruitful to do the following experiment yourself: go get enlightened (however you consider the historical buddha to have taught it, or however the mahayanists whom you like have revised those teachings), examine the resultant condition honestly and scrupulously, and see for yourself what you find. then, if this matter of comparison still interests you, you'll be in a much better position to address it, as you will then have some experience of what you're discussing.

tarin

I have to say thanks Tarin for helping me out here a little bit when it comes to bring about what i wanted to point out. Thats exactly the essence of what I tried to bring across but somehow wasnt able to with the lack in precision of my English language. Its about seeing for yourself and after that discussing about it.

Hi Luciano ! Let me try to put it differently what I tried to communicate. This here is still the early days of AF you know. The great and golden Old Skool. And if you believe it or not this Christian Ballhaus is at least really freed from the Human Condition. But for sure there will be a development like in bitchass Mainstream Buddhism. There will be self proclaimed teachers who hadnt even experienced a real PCE but write books like Actualism for Dummies. Even on this forum the first asked if all this could help him with financial success. This will happen and you cant stop it. So what I tried to suggest was just dont worry to much about what will happen nevertheless but first of all land the thing for yourself. Which Im sure youll do.

Best Chris

Thats the point. You cant fake beeing effortlessly happy and harmless all the time. Its impossible. The freedom in my writing is like the following. I read something then I can be sure whatever I answer it will not gonna be in relationship to a fearful and desiring, non selfcontained ego which i need to maintain nor will it be clouded by any affective emotion. So i try to give the best answer for all of you here on the forum and me due to my experience and knowledge (which might be considered as not sufficient by you ) So this could be that I try to provoce reations, get a discussion going or hit a deluded Buddhist on the head, why not , perhaps it helps, lets see..But the point is even if I try I cannot be other than happy and harmless. There is not one ( and I borrow this phrase from Tarin) malicious bone in my body anymore since becoming Actually free. When it comes to utter or not so utter perfection possible or not or 50 percent possible or 75 percent possible. Why is Lucio so heavy insisting on this belief, why not landing Af and see for yourself, otherwise theres no way to find out...

Very Cool way to go Daniel. Exactly what I did at one point. And then you find out that this approach helps much more than the usual scepticism. I mean cmon why should one ever claim to have attained Af if he hadnt. For the money, for the girls...??? Only thing could be that he thinks he had attained it but actually hadnt, but the difference to life before is so big that this would be a strange thing to do...

Maybe an AF person could become famous for doing something millions think is admirable, then AF might become mainstream more quickly.

If artificial intelligence experts are working on giving machines emotions, i.e. harmful on their own accord + way smarter than us, then AF in the mainstream may change their minds about giving them emotions.

>Hi Luciano !

Hi Christian,

> Let me try to put it differently what I tried to communicate. This here is still the early days of AF you know. The great and golden Old Skool. And if you believe it or not this Christian Ballhaus is at least really freed from the Human Condition.

I understood your point. However to this issue don´t matter if you are or not actually free from the self/Self.
Your behaviour since now will show and prove the integrity of your public(sic) claim.
AF is a non-stop process.

> But for sure there will be a development like in bitchass Mainstream Buddhism. There will be self proclaimed teachers who hadnt even experienced a real PCE but write books like Actualism for Dummies. Even on this forum the first asked if all this could help him with financial success. This will happen and you cant stop it.

It was inevitable...
Remember that I also could have the same if I was interested in profitting from telling people what they want to hear...
Instead I´m putting some warning advices along the road.
I never will compromise my integrity for status, recognition or money.
What you get on my words here represent my best effort to inform my fellows.

> So what I tried to suggest was just dont worry to much about what will happen nevertheless but first of all land the thing for yourself. Which Im sure youll do.

No problem. I´m happy and harmless during this considerations, because I care about all that many people don’t even know they are standing in their own necks... I can help indicating the contradictions and lack of commom sense. Its enough and also help me in this journey.

By the way, are you yet using imaginative mental faculties?

Luciano

P.S.: like you, even running the risk of artificiality, I write here in bad english. My first language is portuguese from Brazil.

Hi. Im trying to but its nearly impossible. The first few days after the event I could recall some pictures of situations with my ex- girlfriend. After a few days even that was impossible. Theres just no way to get away from experiencing this moment of beeing alive ;-) Sometimes now I have some pictures during sleep ( formerly called dreaming) but just very ordinary like snapshots of the day. Just before falling into sleep in this certain inbetween phase sometimes a stronger picture pops up for a little moment. Thats all. No pictures during the whole day. Just words.

I will go and produce some highly admirable, loved by millions, badass beats then to do the dirt job and push this thing into the mainstream ;-) ( Backed up by SW Steph as vocalist, Tarin on the Drums and Trent on Synths..

Awesome, man lol

hahaha you crack me up

Permit to me one more question:
Do you know about self-suggestion and subconscious persuasion?

I've studied Hypnosis some years ago and its implication in our daily life, habits and behaviour (Social Identity is essentially a hypnotized mind conditioned and sustained by parents and cultural input).
About hypnosis, I witness a lot of amazing feats and also experimented some trances by myself to allow sansonism (super brute force) and chronokinesis (slow motion time) effects.
Anyway, the most remarkable of all that magical feats under cognitive illusion was the natural human ability to undercurrent emulations.
So, my fellow, think about this very careful.
It is never too late to make some reviews over our acquired convictions.

Kindest regards,

Luciano

P.S.: ...of course a consciousness mutation due to a paradigma shift doesn´t need any weird neurobiological mutation on the brain. Good news, indeed!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

I find it a little strange that you expect this.

Hi one more time Chris,



Not so strange after you follow my lecture indication like you promess to me today.

Every mand and woman must individually absorb what they can use. Next, throw away the non-commonsensical stuff, for most people can only understand so much or retain so much into making a comprehensive method to is uniquely yours.
I hope that you take the time, and effort required to learn as much as you can from self-suggestion and subconscious persuasion that you find or hope to find useful.
But enjoy whatever you learn, and be safe.
Be well,

Luciano

If I understand you right you think im in some kind of self hypnotised state emulating the AF. Have you ever had a PCE or an Out from control freedom, did you experience a Fruition ?!? How to emulate such a thing !?! And if youve read my report you surely will have seen that I had my first PCE without even knowing that such a thing exists, wondereing what the hell that was. Starting to search for an answer. I didnt know anything about the characteristics of a so called PCE ( I just experienced it for myself). So how to emulate something under self hypnosis which you didnt even now the characteristics of. How could I imitate a cow if i never heard of such a thing !?!

But thanks for taking care of me in all the directions. Lets see what comes next after "parasite", "self- Hypnotized" etc.

I just suspect about it.



No, never said PCE or an out-from-control virtual freedom are self-suggestion hypnosis (hypnosis only works on the ego, a.k.a. "self").
And PCE happens exactly when that self is out, absent.
So, no possibility to mix hypnosis with pure consciousness activated.
In out-from-control VF, the inevitable step after a pragmatical virtual freedom (btw very simple and fast to achieve it), the self, the identity offer less resistance to PCE and Excellence Experiences (or Exceptional Experiences).
Indeed the name adopted by Richard to describe that well documented peak experiences doesn´t matter. Since childhood we had that magical events. And to some people yet to experiment it, probably will find that peace in their own near-death experience (NDE*).
That is not the point here. To emulate something all we need are descriptions and fertile imagination (or curiosity if you prefer).



Again, all we need to start emulating something are descriptive words and fertile imagination (or desire if you prefer).
I could recommend to you the book "The Future of the Self" by Walter Truett Anderson (if possible go straight to Part 3 of this book. Will be enough to understand my warns).



You seems to be a good guy and is always a great pleasure to meet people like you.
I rest my case.
All the best,
Luciano

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience

awesome awesome thread. so simple and straightforward and refreshing

Like this.

And thanks: