What is the "Actual World"?

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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/4/10 4:32 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/4/10 4:32 PM

What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
There are a number of quotes on the AF website that say things like: Peter has joined Richard in the actual world. Vineeto was hanging out with the only two people living in the actual world... and then she joined them in the actual world. And, then there were only three people living in the actual world.

"Pamela has now joined Richard, Peter, Vineeto in the actual world" - Richard

"...and from here, where I am I can tell you that the actual world has all that you are looking for and much, much more." - Vineeto

"What I am busy spending most of my day with, together with the only other two people presently in the actual world..." - Vineeto


So, I don't totally understand what is this "actual world" that's being talked about?

I thought that it was the world of people, things, and events as-they-are in this (the only) moment of being alive.

And, it makes sense that "I" don't live in the actual world, since "I" am the identity. And, so "I" can never live in the actual world. But, it also seems that this flesh and blood body "already always" exists as it is in the actual world of people, things, and events. That it is in fact the actual physical world existing as one flesh and blood body.

But, there is something in the above statements that suggests that none of us are living in the actual world (except Actually Free people).

It seems like somehow this is important to understand. Can anyone clarify?

I searched the AF website for "Actual World" but didn't find much directly addressing the topic. I found this quote from Peter: "in a PCE it is clearly experienced that there is nothing at all mystical, nor spiritual about this actual world we live in and this direct sensual experience of actuality is all the more magical because it is devoid of the fears and fantasies of mysticism. " [emphasis added]

This seems to suggest that we do live in this actual world.

??

It seems particularly relevant because I don't know much about the so-called PCE, and don't have much pure intent to maintain or induce PCEs because I don't really know what they are. But, rather, the pure perfection and clarity of the actual world seems to be something I'm highly motivated to induce and maintain. My practice has revolved much more around an attempt to live in the actual world than an attempt to live in a so-called "PCE."

For me, the big realization of my studying actualism is the possibility (or actuality?) that the actual world actually exists! It seems like if the actual world doesn't exist, then it all looks pretty bleak, and enlightenment is really only a sorta consolation prize that I might as well go for because I don't really have any choice about it anyway. Whereas if the actual world exists, then that changes the whole game.

Thanks,

Daniel
Nad A, modified 13 Years ago at 10/4/10 5:45 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/4/10 5:44 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 237 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
It's the material universe. Yes, we are all living in the actual world. But 'we' are not living in the actual world, know what I mean? emoticon

The experience is just so different that it's effectively like whole different worlds.
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Jeff Grove, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 6:27 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/4/10 6:00 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 310 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
Have you experienced a PCE?
Learn to maximize the felicitous feelings (happy, harmless, inspired, beautiful, bright). Go out into nature where the stir of passion/emotional reaction is less likely to happen. In this moment when all is still, vibrant and alive.
The actual world is this physical world as directly experienced by this flesh and blood body untainted by the "self"

cheers
Jeff
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Christian Ballhaus, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:55 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:55 AM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 59 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Actual world is the experience of this material universe after the AF is landed. Its the world you live in without beeing filtered by affective emotions. The universe and your relationship to it (more exact the realization of your body beeing this universe) apperceptively received. You can get a great teaser by cultivating the PCE with all the great instructions on this forum. Take a look and see for yourself ;-)
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:05 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:05 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
Jeff Grove:
Have you experienced a PCE?

I have no idea. To make my best guess, I think so. When I read descriptions of the actual world, they seem so obviously true to me, that I think the only way I could know this stuff is if I'd experienced it at some point in my life. But, seeing as how I have trouble accessing the non-affective memory faculty, most of my memories are affective in nature, and I'm still baffled by the idea of being able to remember an experience that I didn't feel.

Jeff Grove:
Learn to maximize the felicitous feelings (happy, harmless, inspired, beautiful, bright). Go out into nature where the stir of passion/emotional reaction is less likely to happen. In this moment when all is still, vibrant and alive.


Sound advice. This has been what I've been attempting to do.


Jeff Grove:
The actual world is this physical world as directly experienced by this flesh and blood body untainted by the "self"


I suppose you are going on theory here rather than experience, as you are still "tainted" by the self? Or have you attained AF?

What I'm trying to get at is what it means that I am not living in the actual world and will not be living in the actual world until such time comes (if it does) that I become actually free. Until that time, it seems the best I can muster is a virtual freedom in a "virtual world"? I haven't seen the phrase "virtual world" used in AF writing, but it seems that must be the world experienced in a PCE, if it's not the "actual world".
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:16 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:16 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Christian Ballhaus:
Actual world is the experience of this material universe after the AF is landed.

Thanks Christian, that is a no-nonsense definition.

Christian Ballhaus:
Its the world you live in without beeing filtered by affective emotions.


Are you saying that I live in the actual world filtered by affective emotions? Therefore, that I live in "the experience of this material universe after the AF is landed" filtered by affective emotions?

Christian Ballhaus:
You can get a great teaser by cultivating the PCE with all the great instructions on this forum. Take a look and see for yourself ;-)


What would I be looking at? The actual world? (the experience of this material universe after the AF is landed)? Or would I be looking at something else?

By the way, the idea of cultivating a "PCE" sounds like a pretty great idea. I've tried implementing many of the great instructions on this forum and have had wonderful results, as well as great teasers of what the actual world may be, but I guess I probably haven't cultivated a "PCE." I'm not sure I really need a teaser, however, as I'm already sold that the actual world is where I would like to live (or rather, I'd like to live in the physical universe that actually already exists, rather than try to pretend I am somehow outside of it).

By the way, does my question even make sense?

Is what you are saying is basically that I am not and will not be living in the actual world until the time comes when I am actually free, but that I can have "looks" or "teasers" into the actual world until such event occurs?
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:20 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 3:20 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Nad A.:
It's the material universe. Yes, we are all living in the actual world. But 'we' are not living in the actual world, know what I mean? emoticon

The experience is just so different that it's effectively like whole different worlds.


Unfortunately I don't know what you mean emoticon

I get the idea that "I" (as the identity - both feeling "I" and thought based "I") do not and can not live in the actual world, because this "I" is imaginary - "I" am imaginary. "I" am not actual. This makes sense.

And that in a PCE, even though "I" am in abeyance, "I" still exist as a psychic and psychological entity.... so "I" am still not living in the actual world, even in a PCE.
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Steph S, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 4:57 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 4:38 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 672 Join Date: 3/24/10 Recent Posts
Daniel Johnson:


Are you saying that I live in the actual world filtered by affective emotions? Therefore, that I live in "the experience of this material universe after the AF is landed" filtered by affective emotions?

....

Is what you are saying is basically that I am not and will not be living in the actual world until the time comes when I am actually free, but that I can have "looks" or "teasers" into the actual world until such event occurs?


Hey Daniel

As you know, I'm not AF yet, but I'll take a guess here as I have had several PCE's. The actual world is the world that is already here and now that is not able to be fully experienced through the lens of affective emotion and identity. Yes, the PCE does give you a glimpse, but is not the total picture because the affective aspect is not entirely eliminated until AF. The actual world has always been here, is here right now, and will be here in the future regardless of whether any human being had ever in the past or will ever in the future attain AF.

Steph

Edited to add, since it might be relevant: When one becomes AF, one is the universe experiencing itself. Not in a grandiose, "omfg I'm the whole universe and it's only me that's the universe" way.. I mean everyone/thing is the universe. This is possibly the coolest thing imaginable, if I'm remembering this correctly from the AF website. Anyone able to expand on this?
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Jeff Grove, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 5:18 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 5:09 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Daniel Johnson:

I have no idea. To make my best guess, I think so. When I read descriptions of the actual world, they seem so obviously true to me, that I think the only way I could know this stuff is if I'd experienced it at some point in my life. But, seeing as how I have trouble accessing the non-affective memory faculty, most of my memories are affective in nature, and I'm still baffled by the idea of being able to remember an experience that I didn't feel.


The trick is to set up the conditions which are most conducive for a PCE by maximising felicitous feelings which also creates a feedback loop directing more of your energy into this.

If you monitor this energy movement around the dantein you will find a still point like a balance point were the energy flows to an from in reaction to a perceived object.

In nature (then say the city) it is conducive to felicitous feelings as well as you are less likely to react strongly to your surroundings (stir of passions for eg. desire of a women or a fear etc)

Fake it until you make it, at some point the conditions will be right

Investigate HAIETMOBA, investigate the stir of passions that interrupts the PCE.

Daniel Johnson:

I suppose you are going on theory here rather than experience, as you are still "tainted" by the self? Or have you attained AF?

What I'm trying to get at is what it means that I am not living in the actual world and will not be living in the actual world until such time comes (if it does) that I become actually free. Until that time, it seems the best I can muster is a virtual freedom in a "virtual world"? I haven't seen the phrase "virtual world" used in AF writing, but it seems that must be the world experienced in a PCE, if it's not the "actual world".


Does it matter if I declare myself AF. I have found Richard to be very specific in his definitions so that the only room left for interpretation is your "self". So when Richard describes a pure consciousness experience ("wherein ‘I’, the thought and felt ‘being’, temporarily quits the scene and the actual world becomes apparent") did he mean the actual world becomes apparent or did he mean you have to be AF before the actual world becomes apparent??
Nad A, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:16 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:16 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Daniel Johnson:
Unfortunately I don't know what you mean emoticon

I get the idea that "I" (as the identity - both feeling "I" and thought based "I") do not and can not live in the actual world, because this "I" is imaginary - "I" am imaginary. "I" am not actual. This makes sense.

And that in a PCE, even though "I" am in abeyance, "I" still exist as a psychic and psychological entity.... so "I" am still not living in the actual world, even in a PCE.


For the purpose of understanding what the actual world is, I would say just take it that in a PCE, "I" am totally absent. So in a PCE you are living in the actual world.

It seems to me like you're taking the 'world'-speak too literally. Perhaps if you just considered that there's just the one world - the universe... there's the human experience of the universe clouded by feelings and there's the experience of it free from feelings.

For convenience and to illustrate the vast difference between the modes of experience, some choose to call them different 'worlds'.

I only have PCE experience not AF but that's my understanding.
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:52 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 7:52 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
Thanks for all these responses. I appreciate what has been written.

Steph S:
The actual world is the world that is already here and now that is not able to be fully experienced through the lens of affective emotion and identity.


Not only "not able to be fully experienced"... but apparently not lived in either? This distinction seems somehow significant to me. I guess if "live in" just means to fully and completely experience - then it's basically the same thing. I was taking it more to mean to carry out the processes which constitute life (breathing, eating, moving, etc) within this world. Otherwise, I totally dig what you wrote and that basically fits what I thought was going on with all this.

Thanks, Steph.
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 8:05 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 8:05 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
Jeff Grove:
The trick is to set up the conditions which are most conducive for a PCE by maximising felicitous feelings which also creates a feedback loop directing more of your energy into this.

If you monitor this energy movement around the dantein you will find a still point like a balance point were the energy flows to an from in reaction to a perceived object.

In nature (then say the city) it is conducive to felicitous feelings as well as you are less likely to react strongly to your surroundings (stir of passions for eg. desire of a women or a fear etc)

Fake it until you make it, at some point the conditions will be right

Investigate HAIETMOBA, investigate the stir of passions that interrupts the PCE.


Thanks. I will keep at it.

Jeff Grove:
Does it matter if I declare myself AF. I have found Richard to be very specific in his definitions so that the only room left for interpretation is your "self". So when Richard describes a pure consciousness experience ("wherein ‘I’, the thought and felt ‘being’, temporarily quits the scene and the actual world becomes apparent") did he mean the actual world becomes apparent or did he mean you have to be AF before the actual world becomes apparent??


It doesn't matter much to me what you declare, however I would love to see you attain AF, as that would be a wonderful thing, indeed.

I agree about the "only room left for interpretation is your "self"" thing.

The quote you mention of Richard is a good one. I'm not sure if I read that one before. I think he meant that the actual world becomes apparent, yes.

What I was specifically referring to, however was your statement "The actual world is this physical world as directly experienced by this flesh and blood body untainted by the "self"" in which you make no use of the word "apparent." I don't mention it to put you on the spot or anything like that, as I'm not really concerned with all that. I mention it because it seems that both you and I are not living in the actual world and the best we can get is a teaser, a look, or the appearance of the actual world, while neither of us will be living in the actual world until such time that one or both of us attains actual freedom.

Somehow this seems significant to me. Does it not seem significant to others? Does my question just seem weird?

I guess my inquiry is along the lines of what does it mean that (even in the PCE) I am not living in the actual world? Or am I?

Thanks though. I find your thoughts helpful, and do intend to cultivate conditions for an actual freedom.

Best,

Daniel
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 8:09 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 8:09 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Nad A.:
So in a PCE you are living in the actual world.

So then at that moment when the Vineeto wrote about being one of only three people living in the actual world - there just happened to be nobody in a PCE anywhere in the world at that moment? The quote seems to imply that in a PCE you are not living in the actual world.

Nad A.:
It seems to me like you're taking the 'world'-speak too literally.


Could be. Generally, it seems that the authors on the AF website make it clear when they are being literal or metaphorical.

Nad A.:
For convenience and to illustrate the vast difference between the modes of experience, some choose to call them different 'worlds'.


Perhaps that's all it is. I just wanted to know for sure. Is it just a metaphorical "different worlds" used as an illustration and not meant to be taken literally?

By the way, does this question even make sense to anyone? Maybe I'm really dumb. Who knows.

Take care, and thanks for the response.

Daniel
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Jeff Grove, modified 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 10:13 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/5/10 8:53 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 310 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
Hi Daniel

Thankyou for your questions as they help us all in our investigation

Daniel Johnson:

What I was specifically referring to, however was your statement "The actual world is this physical world as directly experienced by this flesh and blood body untainted by the "self"" in which you make no use of the word "apparent." I don't mention it to put you on the spot or anything like that, as I'm not really concerned with all that. I mention it because it seems that both you and I are not living in the actual world and the best we can get is a teaser, a look, or the appearance of the actual world, while neither of us will be living in the actual world until such time that one or both of us attains actual freedom.


To perceive the actual world on a permanent basis (except uncounciousness) you need to be AF but you can use the glimpse from PCE as the drive, the pure intent to investigate HAIETMOBA to become AF

We live in this physical material world the self is what gets in the way of directly perceiving the actual world (self experience).
Nad A, modified 13 Years ago at 10/6/10 4:32 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/6/10 4:29 AM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Daniel Johnson:
Nad A.:
So in a PCE you are living in the actual world.

So then at that moment when the Vineeto wrote about being one of only three people living in the actual world - there just happened to be nobody in a PCE anywhere in the world at that moment? The quote seems to imply that in a PCE you are not living in the actual world.


I can't speak for Vineeto but I'd say she must have meant only three people (that she knew of) living permanently and stably in the actual world. I would say that any humans who happened to be in a PCE at the time were also glimpsing the actual world.

Nad A.:
For convenience and to illustrate the vast difference between the modes of experience, some choose to call them different 'worlds'.


Perhaps that's all it is. I just wanted to know for sure. Is it just a metaphorical "different worlds" used as an illustration and not meant to be taken literally?


Surely.

Despite what seems to be the target audience for Richard and the AF Trust, for me actualism is like the next step after materialism/atheism. Wouldn't want to regress all the way back to believing in different spiritual dimensions and other worlds would I?
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/7/10 5:36 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/7/10 5:35 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
So, this is how the inquiry has continued, with some practice notes...

Begin with statement of facts: "this computer is actual."
Fascination arises: "Wow"
Wonder, interest, attentiveness, etc..
more fascination, delight, sensousness, etc..

"this thing (xyz) is actual"
"wow"

repeat

"This world is actual"
"wow"

repeat

"Right now is actual"
"wow"

repeat

"I am living in the actual world."
screeeeeeeech! (record needle scratch)
"Say wha?"

My first response was "oh, that doesn't really feel true."
"What does it mean to "feel true"?

"Oh, actually, I think it's just not a factual statement." (Factual - readily observable and verified by the senses.)

"These sensations are actual"
"wow"

"This sensing is actual"
"wow"

"These eyes, ears, etc. are actual"
"wow"

"These sights, sounds, etc. are actual."
"wow"

"I am living in the actual world."
screeeeeeeeech! Doh! Not again!

"I" am really just not here in the actual world. It's like the "I am living in the" part of the sentence creates the separation from actuality.

Some more confusion, as now I think "well, then none of us are living in the actual world... because there is no 'us' in the actual world." There's really just no "I" there. And, it's not like some annatta thing where everything has a characteristic of not-self... because there's no such thing as "self" and how could something have the characteristic of not-(something that doesn't actually exist). ... Which makes me giggle a little when I consider what if we went around noting that everything has the characteristic of not-Santa-Claus or the charateristic of not-boo-boo-baloonhead. ("a delusion born out of an illusion" as Richard puts it.) Ok, but that's just an aside. Oh, actually now it makes me giggle a lot. But, anyway...

Now I'm more confused when they say (for example) that Richard lives in the actual world and what that means. The best I can figure is that there really it means there is no Richard whatsoever. There's really no being there at all. But still that doesn't make much sense to me. Anyway, I don't want to get all theoretical on it or anything. I just thought it'd be fun to share a little of how the inquiry has been unfolding for me as of late.

"I have the greatest admiration for ‘Richard the identity’: He was willing to self-immolate so that I could be here. He never knew me, but was utterly confident that the universe knew what it was doing. He was happy to disappear so that all this could eventuate. He was prepared to go all the way without reservation ... the ‘boots and all’ approach, he called it." - Richard


"He never knew me..." hmmm.....

Thanks for all the input, especially the grounding of the atheist/materialist contingent. I really like atheists.

- Daniel
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Kerstin Upmeyer, modified 13 Years ago at 10/7/10 8:09 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/7/10 8:09 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

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Daniel Johnson:
So, this is how the inquiry has continued, with some practice notes...

"I have the greatest admiration for ‘Richard the identity’: He was willing to self-immolate so that I could be here. He never knew me, but was utterly confident that the universe knew what it was doing. He was happy to disappear so that all this could eventuate. He was prepared to go all the way without reservation ... the ‘boots and all’ approach, he called it." - Richard


"He never knew me..." hmmm.....

- Daniel


This reminds me of a sci fi short story I read. Girl overdosed on a drug called Zen, the drug would work in the brain to detach the brain from the signals of the ego. People loved it because it put them in that direct experience mode. Sometimes people overdosed and became permanently disconnected, essentially like AF. But what happened to this girl, was that a new identity developed. She was under 18 and had to go live with the parents of "the person who used to be her". She still had memories of that girl but was not that "person". A new one had arisen in the space left by the previous ego. She was also learning about Buddhism from her doctor, kind of a neat story (wish I could remember the name of it). Please understand I am NOT implying AF is like a drug, (and it was after all, just a fictional short story) but they actually got into explaining some of the neuroscience behind the "ego" and how it could conceivably be "blocked" or dis-attached. I just find the Richard the non-identity speaking of Richard the identity reminds me of that story. Though I guess when there is a willful decision to loose the "I" that there is no need for a new "I" to arise. Dunno, this sort of stuff fascinates me. I am curious about the actual science of what happens to the mind of an AF person.
Lloth _, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 9:15 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 9:15 AM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 17 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
I am curious about the actual science of what happens to the mind of an AF person.


Me too, I was looking at the neuroscience literature a bit, and my hypothesis currently is that it has something to do with the ACC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex

It's funny, I slipped into a PCE right in the middle of looking at that article again, and now my interest in explaining my theory, or even to understand it is unimportant.

I think my reasons were as follows:
- The pce doesn't have any seeking behavior, this seems to regulate that somehow.
- It seems to switch between the limbic and neocortex, so it's basically the switch between thinking and emotion.
- The location in the brain is particularly interesting, it seems to be located on the back of the head. This is a spot that seems to allow access to the PCE at times (introspectively). However, I'm not sure how to explain the sensations that occur in the head, since it's doesn't seem likely that we are actually feeling that spot inside the brain mapped to that particular location.

If somebody more versed in neuroscience would take a look at it and see if it's plausible.
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Daniel Johnson, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 3:46 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 3:45 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/16/09 Recent Posts
Just found this tidbit to add to the investigation. I was watching the DVD samples and found another curious reference to the "actual world" (emphasis in bold added by me)

If you really really want to help people, give them the best help that is possible. Come all the way here into the actual world, and you will give them the ultimate help that they could possibly need. - Richard (I think? the dude with the yellow shirt)
Luciano de Noeme Imoto, modified 13 Years ago at 10/9/10 8:29 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 4:26 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 75 Join Date: 6/2/10 Recent Posts
When one becomes AF, one is the universe experiencing itself. Not in a grandiose, "omfg I'm the whole universe and it's only me that's the universe" way.. I mean everyone/thing is the universe. This is possibly the coolest thing imaginable, if I'm remembering this correctly from the AF website. Anyone able to expand on this?


Hello Steph,

The word "universe" is a very insidious term. Be careful.
If you change this word by another more commom term (God, for example), so you have another religion, even without the material and/or spiritual content attached to it.
And human being like us, you and me, have an essentialist vision of the world. Join this vision with actualism, and we will obtain new sub-products. And this emulation could lead to confusion.
An example:
When you divide people in two groups (like AF and Human Conditon people), using a borrowed criterion (from a book or website, don´t matter), you will be favorable to your side. Jump some years ahead and, mutatis mutandis, we have fundamentalism even without the material and/or spiritual content attached to it.
Essentialism is a trap in the actualism path, and pervert the common sense.
The universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists.
To borrow an Aristotelian approach over it is an old error.

Luciano
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Kerstin Upmeyer, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 5:42 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 5:42 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 11 Join Date: 6/30/10 Recent Posts
Lloth _:
I am curious about the actual science of what happens to the mind of an AF person.


Me too, I was looking at the neuroscience literature a bit, and my hypothesis currently is that it has something to do with the ACC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex

It's funny, I slipped into a PCE right in the middle of looking at that article again, and now my interest in explaining my theory, or even to understand it is unimportant.

I think my reasons were as follows:
- The pce doesn't have any seeking behavior, this seems to regulate that somehow.
- It seems to switch between the limbic and neocortex, so it's basically the switch between thinking and emotion.
- The location in the brain is particularly interesting, it seems to be located on the back of the head. This is a spot that seems to allow access to the PCE at times (introspectively). However, I'm not sure how to explain the sensations that occur in the head, since it's doesn't seem likely that we are actually feeling that spot inside the brain mapped to that particular location.

If somebody more versed in neuroscience would take a look at it and see if it's plausible.


Very interesting Lloth, thanks for the ideas and the link! I especially appreciate you taking the time to recall your reasoning from within PCE mode. :-) People can get all woo-woo about all this, but it seems likely to me what is happening is some specific neuron-biological shift that effects perceptions and even instinctual reactions (my totally non-scientist take on this, I make no claims to science knowledge beyond layman curiosity). Frankly that's fine with me, my practice in both dharma and now actualism is about trying to come to an end to my suffering. I'm fine with re-wiring my brain to be happy and harmless. But it'd be interesting to understand the actual changes that take place. It's a difficult and long journey to get there. Maybe someday science will be able to assist us getting out brains into enlightenment and/or AF more quickly than the (sometimes) many years of meditation or actualism practice. Hey, a girl can dream! emoticon
Lloth _, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 6:45 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 6:45 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 17 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
(my totally non-scientist take on this, I make no claims to science knowledge beyond layman curiosity)


Me neither, I just like sounding sciency :-P
However I like the way that scientists think, the experimentation and not making claims until they are tested. However I'm starting to find that how my mind seems to 'think' when trying to solve problems is a detriment to getting into the PCE. It's a problem solving mentality, and it seems that the PCE is inherently problem free.

</pce mode>
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Jeff Grove, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 7:55 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 7:52 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 310 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
Daniel Johnson:
So, this is how the inquiry has continued, with some practice notes...

Begin with statement of facts: "this computer is actual."
Fascination arises: "Wow"
Wonder, interest, attentiveness, etc..
more fascination, delight, sensousness, etc..

"this thing (xyz) is actual"
"wow"

repeat

- Daniel


Hi Daniel.

Richard has pointed out that almost everyone at some time has experienced a PCE, there is probably many different methods to achieve this.

Different methods will likely produce different results.

Look through the AF website or look at Tarins and Trents advice on this forum and they point you back to practice HAIETMOBA.

There is a reason for this.

It took me a while to catch on but HAIETMOBA is a very efficient method aimed at achieving AF.
Craig N, modified 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 9:24 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/8/10 9:24 PM

RE: What is the "Actual World"?

Posts: 134 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Lloth _:
(my totally non-scientist take on this, I make no claims to science knowledge beyond layman curiosity)


Me neither, I just like sounding sciency :-P
However I like the way that scientists think, the experimentation and not making claims until they are tested. However I'm starting to find that how my mind seems to 'think' when trying to solve problems is a detriment to getting into the PCE. It's a problem solving mentality, and it seems that the PCE is inherently problem free.

</pce mode>


Hi Lloth

Thoughts and a common sense problem solving mentality aren't a problem for trying to get into a PCE in my experience, in fact taking a rational approach is the very foundation for dealing with emotional issues by looking at whether beliefs underpinning them are silly or sensible. Resolving emotional issues then clears the way for paying exclusive attention to this moment of being alive, and allow the PCE to occur.

What is it about the way your mind seems to 'think' when trying to solve problems that you find to be a detriment to getting into the PCE?

Craig