Notes on Noting

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Howard Clegg, modified 13 Years ago at 11/25/10 3:21 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 12:24 PM

Notes on Noting

Posts: 61 Join Date: 10/15/10 Recent Posts
Dear all

Some of you may have read my previous posts but for those who have not; I have recently returned to practice after a long illness. I have found that my favourite practices have become problematic for a variety of reasons, so have been forced to try new avenues. I am on my second read through of Daniels book and I sit regularly with a Zen group. They are lovely but I’m really a Vippassana chap at heart and keep drifting back to that. I used to do Goenka but that now a problem, so I have been experimenting with noting a la Mahasi Sayadaw, I have a couple of questions that people can maybe help me with.

In no particular order:

In his book Daniel states that, generally speaking, you need to have developed a good enough concentration to attain to first Jhana, before you will have a stable enough mind to get anything out of insight practices. I cannot reliably say if I have attained to any Jhanas, I only heard about them recently; but by my own estimation, on a good day, I can stay “present” for maybe fifteen minutes before drifting off in to some kind of “not present” process, day dreaming usually. I’m pretty good about pulling myself back these days. Typically I “need” maybe five to ten minutes of zoning-out at the beginning of a half hour sit to settle properly. I suspect that I need to get a good look at what I’m not supposed to be doing before I can properly settle with what I am supposed to be doing. Is this good enough? I would hate to be wasting my time.

I first started using noting about a month ago, mainly as a technique to boost myself into mindfulness. Once in mindfulness I wonder why I would ever want to be anywhere else. But getting there has always been a trial, years ago I would often forget what it felt like and would grope around in my meditation for what seemed like hours, before finally stumbling on it in the last ten minutes or so, and then getting irritated because I had to finish up and go to work, and forgo an extended sojourn in the nice(r) place.

Now I am happy to say that I can drop in to mindfulness throughout my day. I have less control over when, where and how long, obviously, but I am always amazed by what is possible in the most unlikely of circumstances. I am very lucky in that I work with people with intellectual disabilities and I find that when I am mindful it seems have a positive effect on them. I may not make my job easier but it does make my working life more productive and positive.

In my formal sitting my main concern is getting into the zone a quickly as possible and staying there for as long as possible. I have found noting to be like rocket fuel for this. I begin but attaching a label to any stimulus that my impinges on my consciousness and keep doing that until it speeds up a bit, this appears to happen at its own rate and will not be hurried. Then one of two things happens.

I stay with the formal attachment of labels to stimuli, this process accelerates a bit and I move to what Daniel has described as “bipping” rather than verbal labelling. I think I have a speed limit, but I can’t say at the moment because this is a very new practice for me. So what happens now? Do I just keep going like this trying to go faster and faster? Do I settle at a steady pace? Daniel seems to suggest that faster is better. Is this correct? I’m a bit non-plussed because this experience does not feel that special. If anything it’s the exact opposite. I’ve been able to keep this up for maybe ten minutes; it feels like make-work to be honest. Feels unsatisfying. Maybe that’s the point. The first time I kept it up for any length of time; I had a profound sense of dislocation after. Ten minutes of this felt like ten minutes of life with out any sense of narrative. Existence as shopping-list. Itch, smell, thought, hot, buzz, tingle, voice, pain, dog ECT. No “me” anywhere to be seen. Is this the point? A way to access no-mind? Am I being pretentious?

This is a big deal to me because the way I normally go with my practice is completely different.

If we go back to the initial noting process where it starts to speed up, what normally happens is that my mind gets to a kind of escape velocity and opens up all of a sudden. I am able to pay attention to various stimuli apparently simultaneously; verbalised thought processes have slowed so that there are long gaps between them in to which a finer grain of sensation is observed. Heart beat, breathing, traffic noise, the high pitched singing in ones ear, skin prickles, but in contrast to the other mind state it all appears to happen simultaneously, like being in a bath of sensation. In the other mind state I described I am vaguely aware of this other stuff but manfully stick to the task of noting. This second mind state feels very natural and healthy and I have always assumed that this is the “Mindfulness” that everybody goes on about all the time. This is the state that I drop in and out of during my day and has become rather like a home to me, always reliable, even when I have been grieving or in pain I have always assumed this mind state to be “true”, real and authentic. Sensations can’t lie, that would be an oxymoron. I have gained great support from this over the years. Many books say that if you hang out long enough here you will get enlightened. I have to say it all sounds a bit too easy to me so have always taken a rather dim view of such. Especially when told that awareness is not simultaneous but sequential. I have read this many times. So my “bath of awareness” is an illusion right? Shame.

This begs the question, where do I go from here. More warm bath of awareness? If so, for how long? Am I stuck? Or more manful, narrative-free noting?

I would welcome any and all suggestions. I’m not sure that this is the right category for this stuff. And I apologise if it appears to ramble or is imprecise in its terminology.

Thanks

Howard
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 12:47 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 12:47 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
Howard Clegg:
Dear all

Some of you may have read my previous posts but for those who have not; I have recently returned to practice after a long illness. I have found that my favourite practices have become problematic for a variety of reasons, so have been forced to try new avenues. I am on my second read through of Daniels book and I sit regularly with a Zen group. They are lovely but I’m really a Vippassana chap at heart and keep drifting back to that. I used to do Goenka but that now a problem, so I have been experimenting with noting a la Mahasi Sayadaw, I have a couple of questions that people can maybe help me with.

In no particular order:

In his book Daniel states that, generally speaking, you need to have developed a good enough concentration to attain to first Jhana, before you will have a stable enough mind to get anything out of insight practices. I cannot reliably say if I have attained to any Jhanas, I only heard about them recently; but by my own estimation, on a good day, I can stay “present” for maybe fifteen minutes before drifting off in to some kind of “not present” process, day dreaming usually. I’m pretty good about pulling myself back these days. Typically I “need” maybe five to ten minutes of zoning-out at the beginning of a half hour sit to settle properly. I suspect that I need to get a good look at what I’m not supposed to be doing before I can properly settle with what I am supposed to be doing. Is this good enough? I would hate to be wasting my time.

it may be beneficial if you establish mindfulness prior to sitting down to practise; that is, begin your practice session before you sit down. so if you're doing noting, start noting whole-heartedly while you're standing or walking or whatever else, and attentively bring yourself to your designated sitting place (if you have one) and transition into it keeping the momentum of the practice you've already begun going. maybe 5 or 10 minutes of it is sufficient.

alternately, you may also consider formal walking meditation. mahasi sayadaw's book practical insight meditation provides instruction on this in part 1 as an essential part of the noting practice he taught (and is now taught by his former students, and their students, etc).


Howard Clegg:

In my formal sitting my main concern is getting into the zone a quickly as possible and staying there for as long as possible. I have found noting to be like rocket fuel for this. I begin but attaching a label to any stimulus that my impinges on my consciousness and keep doing that until it speeds up a bit, this appears to happen at its own rate and will not be hurried. Then one of two things happens.

I stay with the formal attachment of labels to stimuli, this process accelerates a bit and I move to what Daniel has described as “bipping” rather than verbal labelling. I think I have a speed limit, but I can’t say at the moment because this is a very new practice for me. So what happens now? Do I just keep going like this trying to go faster and faster? Do I settle at a steady pace? Daniel seems to suggest that faster is better. Is this correct? I’m a bit non-plussed because this experience does not feel that special. If anything it’s the exact opposite. I’ve been able to keep this up for maybe ten minutes; it feels like make-work to be honest. Feels unsatisfying. Maybe that’s the point. The first time I kept it up for any length of time; I had a profound sense of dislocation after. Ten minutes of this felt like ten minutes of life with out any sense of narrative. Existence as shopping-list. Itch, smell, thought, hot, buzz, tingle, voice, pain, dog ECT. No “me” anywhere to be seen. Is this the point?

yeah. everything in the above description indicates that you're doing it right.


Howard Clegg:

This is a big deal to me because the way I normally go with my practice is completely different.

the three characteristics are impermanence (i like to explain it as momentariness or fleeting experience), suffering (i like to explain it as tension or uneasiness, or sometimes dissatisfaction), and no-self (i like to explain it as stuff-happening-on-its-own). reflect on your practice sessions (either via memory or what you've written about them) and see if you can spot instances of each of these. you may find that these characteristics are indeed prominent.


Howard Clegg:

If we go back to the initial noting process where it starts to speed up, what normally happens is that my mind gets to a kind of escape velocity and opens up all of a sudden. I am able to pay attention to various stimuli apparently simultaneously; verbalised thought processes have slowed so that there are long gaps between them in to which a finer grain of sensation is observed. Heart beat, breathing, traffic noise, the high pitched singing in ones ear, skin prickles, but in contrast to the other mind state it all appears to happen simultaneously, like being in a bath of sensation. In the other mind state I described I am vaguely aware of this other stuff but manfully stick to the task of noting. This second mind state feels very natural and healthy and I have always assumed that this is the “Mindfulness” that everybody goes on about all the time. This is the state that I drop in and out of during my day and has become rather like a home to me, always reliable, even when I have been grieving or in pain I have always assumed this mind state to be “true”, real and authentic. Sensations can’t lie, that would be an oxymoron. I have gained great support from this over the years. Many books say that if you hang out long enough here you will get enlightened. I have to say it all sounds a bit too easy to me so have always taken a rather dim view of such. Especially when told that awareness is not simultaneous but sequential. I have read this many times. So my “bath of awareness” is an illusion right? Shame.

whether it is simultaneous or sequential depends on how you're looking. it helps to be able to see it both ways and not fuss about which way you happen to be seeing it (whichever way it is, the basic practice is the same: note).

note the 'mindfulness' by the way, and any other state of mind you identify. if its too much to try and note states of mind specifically (by their distinguishing characteristics), whenever you become aware of a state of mind (usually this happens when the state of mind changes noticeably), note 'state of mind'.


Howard Clegg:

This begs the question, where do I go from here. More warm bath of awareness? If so, for how long? Am I stuck? Or more manful, narrative-free noting?

if you're doing noting practice, keep noting.


Howard Clegg:

I’m really struggling here guys. The guy that runs the Zen group appears to be strongly averse to discussing any of this. The group has had a lot of problems and he’s only just got everybody back in the same room talking to each other. Maybe he just wants a quiet life for a bit. I have toyed with the idea of getting him on his own but I don’t know him very well. I will probably sound insufferably arrogant but I’m not sure he understands this stuff in ways that will be useful to me or maybe not even at all. I live in Ireland and its bandit country for Buddhists here, so I don’t want to alienate anybody. This Zen group is about the closest I can get to my preferred practice, the only other options are Kagyu Tibetan, and Tich nhat hanh and I’m not keen on either.

I would welcome any and all suggestions. I’m not sure that this is the right category for this stuff. And I apologise if it appears to ramble or is imprecise in its terminology.

note the struggling, note the doubt, and keep going.

tarin
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Howard Clegg, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 2:08 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 2:08 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 61 Join Date: 10/15/10 Recent Posts
it may be beneficial if you establish mindfulness prior to sitting down to practise; that is, begin your practice session before you sit down. so if you're doing noting, start noting whole-heartedly while you're standing or walking or whatever else, and attentively bring yourself to your designated sitting place (if you have one) and transition into it keeping the momentum of the practice you've already begun going. maybe 5 or 10 minutes of it is sufficient.

alternately, you may also consider formal walking meditation. mahasi sayadaw's book practical insight meditation provides instruction on this in part 1 as an essential part of the noting practice he taught (and is now taught by his former students, and their students, etc).


Okay thanks, will do this. Related question, is the book you mentioned the book you would recommend as an overall guide for this practice? I generally look for "how to" books rather than metaphysics, or more inspirational books.



the three characteristics are impermanence (i like to explain it as momentariness or fleeting experience), suffering (i like to explain it as tension or uneasiness, or sometimes dissatisfaction), and no-self (i like to explain it as stuff-happening-on-its-own). reflect on your practice sessions (either via memory or what you've written about them) and see if you can spot instances of each of these. you may find that these characteristics are indeed prominent.


I get this pretty much all the time, meditating or not. I have spent much of my life trying to avoid this very visceral reality, and spent may years drunk or stoned as a result. It has only been through a daily practice that I have been able to face the thing full on. If I don't practice, formally or informally, it all goes south, like night follows day.



whether it is simultaneous or sequential depends on how you're looking. it helps to be able to see it both ways and not fuss about which way you happen to be seeing it (whichever way it is, the basic practice is the same: note).

note the 'mindfulness' by the way, and any other state of mind you identify. if its too much to try and note states of mind specifically (by their distinguishing characteristics), whenever you become aware of a state of mind (usually this happens when the state of mind changes noticeably), note 'state of mind'.


Hang on, this mindfulness i describe is kind of "above" things like anger or sadness or joy. Joy's tough to catch though, much easier to note the negative stuff. The mindfulness I mean is more of a process that has a "feeling". I have to "do" it. It may be a sub-routine that chugs away in the background but I still have to do it. So it has the appearance these days of a mind state, but runs alongside anything else that is going on. It differs from elation, or giddy or morose or wired because i make a choice to go there. Surely if I am making a choice to be mindful moment by moment. I am by definition noting it.

Secondly this sequential vs simultaneous issue. In waking consciousness I have a kind of tight focus awareness which is sequential and to be where my mental thought processes appear to reside; and a wide angle awareness which is like peripheral vision but for all the senses and appears to be simultaneous. When I talk about my normal mindfulness state I'm referring more to the peripheral vision awareness. The tight focus awareness shuts down when I choose to "drop in" to the peripheral state. I find it much more productive to live as much of my life in the peripheral as i can. "Tight focus" takes more energy and is inappropriate a lot of the time. But both of these are available to me as a matter of choice and I can access both at the same time if I want to. Indeed, when doing a concentration practice I normally use the tight focus on, say, the breath and have the peripheral running concurrently. Is this what you mean when you say it helps to see it both ways? When you note I assume you are using the tight focus awareness, but should I keep my peripheral awareness in play as well. Or to to look at it another way i'm processing so much more data with my peripheral why bother with tight focus. Unless the whole point of noting is that you are trying to strengthen that tight focus awareness muscle, rather like doing biceps curls in the gym?

Thanks for this.

Howard
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Howard Clegg, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 3:02 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 3:02 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 61 Join Date: 10/15/10 Recent Posts
Wow! Just found practical insight meditation by mahasi sayadaw online as a PDF at


http://books.google.ie/books?id=M2S-7-lWzHIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=practical+insight+meditation+by+mahasi+sayadaw&source=bl&ots=Dura5nAPCA&sig=5qCQS_sFWef8AkBWinyo6D-syJQ&hl=en&ei=hrC4TKTjBIqOjAeLz-jXDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I love the internet
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tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 4:38 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 4:38 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
Howard Clegg:
it may be beneficial if you establish mindfulness prior to sitting down to practise; that is, begin your practice session before you sit down. so if you're doing noting, start noting whole-heartedly while you're standing or walking or whatever else, and attentively bring yourself to your designated sitting place (if you have one) and transition into it keeping the momentum of the practice you've already begun going. maybe 5 or 10 minutes of it is sufficient.

alternately, you may also consider formal walking meditation. mahasi sayadaw's book practical insight meditation provides instruction on this in part 1 as an essential part of the noting practice he taught (and is now taught by his former students, and their students, etc).


Okay thanks, will do this. Related question, is the book you mentioned the book you would recommend as an overall guide for this practice? I generally look for "how to" books rather than metaphysics, or more inspirational books.

having now found the book in pdf form, you may now know that it is as 'how-to' as books get. part one is the meditation instruction (required reading at the beginning of all mahasi courses), and part two is a summary of the progress of insight (of which the progress of insight section in MCTB is an expansion).


Howard Clegg:

the three characteristics are impermanence (i like to explain it as momentariness or fleeting experience), suffering (i like to explain it as tension or uneasiness, or sometimes dissatisfaction), and no-self (i like to explain it as stuff-happening-on-its-own). reflect on your practice sessions (either via memory or what you've written about them) and see if you can spot instances of each of these. you may find that these characteristics are indeed prominent.


I get this pretty much all the time, meditating or not. I have spent much of my life trying to avoid this very visceral reality, and spent may years drunk or stoned as a result. It has only been through a daily practice that I have been able to face the thing full on. If I don't practice, formally or informally, it all goes south, like night follows day.

i wrote the above in response to what you previously wrote:

'This is a big deal to me because the way I normally go with my practice is completely different'

...in order to emphasise that what characterises the practice of vipassana is a direct appreciation of the three characteristics, moment-to-moment, and not any other characteristic which may be observed. yet, as one of those three characteristics is called, aptly, 'suffering', then what you wrote in the previous paragraph, that it 'feels unsatisfying', should not be surprising.. and oughtn't indicate that you are practising incorrectly.


Howard Clegg:


note the 'mindfulness' by the way, and any other state of mind you identify. if its too much to try and note states of mind specifically (by their distinguishing characteristics), whenever you become aware of a state of mind (usually this happens when the state of mind changes noticeably), note 'state of mind'.


Hang on, this mindfulness i describe is kind of "above" things like anger or sadness or joy. Joy's tough to catch though, much easier to note the negative stuff. The mindfulness I mean is more of a process that has a "feeling". I have to "do" it. It may be a sub-routine that chugs away in the background but I still have to do it. So it has the appearance these days of a mind state, but runs alongside anything else that is going on. It differs from elation, or giddy or morose or wired because i make a choice to go there. Surely if I am making a choice to be mindful moment by moment. I am by definition noting it.

it does not matter if mindfulness is a first-order mental state or a second-order mental state, it has a particular quality, and if you are not noting that quality you are not, by definition, noting it.

again, note the mindfulness.

if, after the above explanation, it still doesn't make sense to you to do, leave it be and return to the topic later, perhaps when you're established in equanimity regarding formations.


Howard Clegg:

Secondly this sequential vs simultaneous issue. In waking consciousness I have a kind of tight focus awareness which is sequential and to be where my mental thought processes appear to reside; and a wide angle awareness which is like peripheral vision but for all the senses and appears to be simultaneous. When I talk about my normal mindfulness state I'm referring more to the peripheral vision awareness. The tight focus awareness shuts down when I choose to "drop in" to the peripheral state. I find it much more productive to live as much of my life in the peripheral as i can. "Tight focus" takes more energy and is inappropriate a lot of the time. But both of these are available to me as a matter of choice and I can access both at the same time if I want to. Indeed, when doing a concentration practice I normally use the tight focus on, say, the breath and have the peripheral running concurrently. Is this what you mean when you say it helps to see it both ways? When you note I assume you are using the tight focus awareness, but should I keep my peripheral awareness in play as well. Or to to look at it another way i'm processing so much more data with my peripheral why bother with tight focus. Unless the whole point of noting is that you are trying to strengthen that tight focus awareness muscle, rather like doing biceps curls in the gym?

the tight focus should give way to the 'peripheral vision awareness', but without sacrificing continuity and the momentum of practice.

ingram breaks down the progress of insight into four steps (the way he classifies the vipassana jhanas - slightly differently from u pandita's classification, cf. 'the vipassana jhanas' chapter), and has recommended a different emphasis of practice on each step, as roughly follows:

first jhana (the pre arising and passing away stages) - keep a tight focus, note as quickly and accurately as possible, with full effort, keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise.

second jhana (the stage of arising and passing away) - keep a loose focus, become absorbed in the vibrations that present, understanding the three characteristics, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise.

third jhana (post-a&p/dark night stages) - attend to the periphery of one's focus of attention more than its centre, as well as the background of one's field of attention should it become apparent, understanding the three characteristics, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise, and with an understanding that one's level of concentration may seem somewhat diminished here and that one's experience is not likely to be pleasant.

fourth jhana (the stage of equanimity regarding formations) - attend to the whole 360 degree field of one's attention, taking especial care to note phenomena which are not easily located or are not localised, such as the sensations that imply space, the sensations that imply the sense of time, the sensations that imply the movement of the mind, the sensations that imply mindfulness, wakefulness, and awareness, and so on, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice, and with an understanding that now that mindfulness is broadly and firmly established, it is fine tuning that may be in order, or perhaps no tuning at all.

ingram models the emphases of practice which are suited to these jhanas like a pyramid, with the first jhana-style of practice (intensive straight-forward noting) being its base and the fourth jhana-style of practice being its apex. in order to transition up the pyramid effectively, a strong foundation must be in place. while it is possible to reach the higher jhanas without having established a strong foundation, it is not likely to be stable and will not support well further development. in this sense, 'strengthening the tight focus muscle' has a use - doing so builds a foundation for the 'peripheral vision awareness' to run smoothly and continuously.


Howard Clegg:

Thanks for this.

you're welcome.

tarin
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p m c, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 6:16 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 6:12 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 10 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts
tarin greco:


fourth jhana (the stage of equanimity regarding formations) - attend to the whole 360 degree field of one's attention, taking especial care to note phenomena which are not easily located or are not localised, such as the sensations that imply space, the sensations that imply the sense of time, the sensations that imply the movement of the mind, the sensations that imply mindfulness, wakefulness, and awareness, and so on, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice, and with an understanding that now that mindfulness is broadly and firmly established, it is fine tuning that may be in order, or perhaps no tuning at all.



Hi Tarin !

Could you perhaps expand a little, give a few examples of how one notes sensations that imply space, sense of time, movement of mind and so on ?

Would you consider intensity/friction to be the most important thing to 'pop'?

I have been thinking about how getting kensho/stream entry when sitting with a koan works - no attention really, just intensity/friction or brute force if you will. Any thoughts on this ?

Thank you,

Michael
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Howard Clegg, modified 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 6:45 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 10/15/10 6:45 PM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 61 Join Date: 10/15/10 Recent Posts
Hi Tarin,

Magic box just opened.

Having had a brief look at practical insight it does look like it will do the job. I recognize a lot of it actually, maybe from the MCTB like you say. Thank you.

Maybe I over did my response to the 3 characteristics guidance you gave. There's lots to grin about too. Sorry.


it does not matter if mindfulness is a first-order mental state or a second-order mental state, it has a particular quality, and if you are not noting that quality you are not, by definition, noting it.

again, note the mindfulness.

if, after the above explanation, it still doesn't make sense to you to do, leave it be and return to the topic later, perhaps when you're established in equanimity regarding formations.


I kind of get this actually, but was trying to avoid the extra work load. Watching the process of observing and being aware that observing is in itself an artificial process and possessed of no more or less importance than any other process. The very fact that I have to "do" mindfulness is a giveaway. Created moment by moment by me, therefore it has to be as empty as anything else by definition. I think I know what to do with this one.

Would this be related in any way to "finding the observer/watcher" or "seeing the hole in the donut" A while ago I spent a few sessions trying to find my observer. I got really irritated because I couldn't find it. Duh! I'm assuming I'm going to have to go back and not find it some more. How long do I have to do that practice for exactly?

The odd thing is I have no idea what formations are. I read the descriptions but just scratch my head. My experience suggests that most of this stuff is usually hidden in plain view. No bright lights or choirs of angels just "Oh yeah". So I'm thinking they are some kind of souped up spacial reasoning skills or really strong visualization skills. Do I need to worry that I don't get it?


the tight focus should give way to the 'peripheral vision awareness', but without sacrificing continuity and the momentum of practice.

ingram breaks down the progress of insight into four steps (the way he classifies the vipassana jhanas - slightly differently from u pandita's classification, cf. 'the vipassana jhanas' chapter), and has recommended a different emphasis of practice on each step, as roughly follows:

first jhana (the pre arising and passing away stages) - keep a tight focus, note as quickly and accurately as possible, with full effort, keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise.

second jhana (the stage of arising and passing away) - keep a loose focus, become absorbed in the vibrations that present, understanding the three characteristics, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise.

third jhana (post-a&p/dark night stages) - attend to the periphery of one's focus of attention more than its centre, as well as the background of one's field of attention should it become apparent, understanding the three characteristics, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice without any compromise, and with an understanding that one's level of concentration may seem somewhat diminished here and that one's experience is not likely to be pleasant.

fourth jhana (the stage of equanimity regarding formations) - attend to the whole 360 degree field of one's attention, taking especial care to note phenomena which are not easily located or are not localised, such as the sensations that imply space, the sensations that imply the sense of time, the sensations that imply the movement of the mind, the sensations that imply mindfulness, wakefulness, and awareness, and so on, with the amount of effort optimal for keeping up the continuity and intensity of practice, and with an understanding that now that mindfulness is broadly and firmly established, it is fine tuning that may be in order, or perhaps no tuning at all.

ingram models the emphases of practice which are suited to these jhanas like a pyramid, with the first jhana-style of practice (intensive straight-forward noting) being its base and the fourth jhana-style of practice being its apex. in order to transition up the pyramid effectively, a strong foundation must be in place. while it is possible to reach the higher jhanas without having established a strong foundation, it is not likely to be stable and will not support well further development. in this sense, 'strengthening the tight focus muscle' has a use - doing so builds a foundation for the 'peripheral vision awareness' to run smoothly and continuously.



Okay, this here is that magic box I mentioned earlier on. I've read these passages in Ingram several times but never made the connection.I've suspect that I have been doing fourth Jhana stuff for a while now, at least four years that I can remember but on and off for longer. I like to meditate in moderately noisy environments these days. I find soundscapes very liberating. Cars are great because the sound is constantly moving and changing in quality, giving you a textured volume to work with. Crying babies are good because they generate lots of disparate sensations, sound, physical sensations of aversion, compassion, frustration ect. Lots of thought processes and emotion. If you can stay on it, its very interesting. I never really noticed how angry crying babies are until I started to listen to them properly. I was falling asleep a lot a while ago, so I got quite good at just hanging on the cusp of sleep, still aware but also warm and buzzy and dipping in and out of those little dreamlets you get. Little snatches of dissociated dialogue and emotion then bringing it back to full wakefulness. Mindfulness itself has a distinct sensation that is fun to sit with for a while, and it looks like that is a subject I will be returning to fairly soon. The physical sensations of mood states are interesting. For me grief happens in a different place physically than anger. Anger is all about the fronts of my arms and across my chest. Grief happens in my belly and up the sides of my torso, same place as joy but (obviously) it feels different.

So, I'm assuming this is fourth Jhana content, but I might be wrong. I've had no guidance on this I just got bored of watching my breath/candle flame etc. Am I doing the right thing? Its all very well to go off investigating sensations just because they are non-boring (and yes I have investigated the sensations of boring too) but if its getting me nowhere I absolutely need to know.

So thank you so much Tarin. If i'm actualy doing forth jhana stuff that leaves me feeling rather odd. Not where I expected to be at all.

Howard
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 13 Years ago at 12/2/10 12:25 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 12/2/10 12:25 AM

RE: Notes on Noting

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Howard Clegg:

I never really noticed how angry crying babies are until I started to listen to them properly.


Heh whenever I hear a crying baby nowadays, I really really notice it. It's just so terrible! It really seems like they are crying with the entire intensity of their being, like they know nothing except pain and suffering in that moment. One baby's father says "Man that was a good evolutionary trick - sure gets us to listen to them!" At the time I was in a negative mood so I thought "That baby never asked to be born. It's learning how painful the world is."