meditation problem - very annoying

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adam gregory greene, modified 10 Years ago.

meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 105 Join Date: 2/19/11 Recent Posts
Ok so here is what happens when I try to do anapanasati: I start feeling pleasure, emanating from abdomen within the first 30 seconds of sitting, and my breath becomes uncomfortably fast and shallow. The pleasure is very strong, it's right on the verge of being uncomfortable too. I can only meditate for about five minutes like this, there aren't really any thoughts, just the thought of making the breath more comfortable.

When I slow down the breath I can feel as if I'm going "out of it" and so I try to just let the breath be natural again but it gets very uncomfortable, shallow, fast etc. The pleasure feels like liquid is being pumped out of some organ in upper abdomen and right at the source of pleasure, in the abdomen there is a moderate pain. Again though, it totally stops when I un-concentrate.

Anyone had similar experience? Any advice? I've already tried to just go with it, that's really hard, like... I feel like I'm going to die after about 5 minutes.

Maybe I over meditated or something :o this is my third week of meditating and for the last 5 days I've been going at least 4 hours a day. My crazy theory is that whichever organ is pumping my piti is overworked... lol, I guess that would be pancreas or um... liver..? I'm not too good with no fancy biology

p.s. maybe this is linked to this weird thing I do where I exhale deeply and slowly from the bottom of my longs inducing a strong, localized, momentary pleasure, anyone else get that?
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
First thing's first.....This doesn't sound like you're just doing anapanasati, what you've said suggests that you're paying attention to sensation in your body, in which case you're actually doing vipassana. If that is what you're actually doing then my interpretation of your post, speculation and opinion as always, would be as follows:

You have strong concentration already developed which makes access concentration [1] easy, you've managed to note your way to the 2nd ñana, Cause & Effect, one of the signs of this stage is this mechanical and jerky breathing when attention is placed on the breath. Well done, you've started doing insight practice!

When I slow down the breath I can feel as if I'm going "out of it" and so I try to just let the breath be natural again but it gets very uncomfortable, shallow, fast etc.

Cause. Effect. Simple.

The pleasure feels like liquid is being pumped out of some organ in upper abdomen and right at the source of pleasure, in the abdomen there is a moderate pain

Well done for paying attention to the physical location of these sensations, that sounds as near as damn it to noting as you're likely to get. Note "pumping", note "pleasure", note "pain". Just name each thing you become aware of in that moment, you're not solidifying these sensations to a jhana, you're seeing them arise and pass. When you "un-concentrate", note it as whatever it is, e.g. "distracted" or whatever sensation you're aware of.

I've already tried to just go with it, that's really hard, like... I feel like I'm going to die after about 5 minutes

Welcome to the 3rd ñana, The Three Characteristics, prepare for possible discomfort, pain, tension, frustration, crying and facing up to reality in it's most transient, unsatisfying and self-less form so far.....and it gets worse when you hit Dark Night. I really don't want to seem like I'm discouraging you but it's better that you know that this whole insight thing isn't all sweetness and light, there's a lot of heavy shit to face up to but it's all worthwhile in the long run.

You need to be willing to accept that you're going to go through some really difficult times if you continue down this path. If you're meditating the way you say you are then it's only a matter of time before you hit the 4th ñana, the Arising & Passing, which is the point of no return and from then you're "on the ride" until you get stream entry so think carefully about what you're willing to do to attain your goals. After the A&P things can get very, very, very difficult, although there's always the chance that you'll cross Dark Night quickly if you maintain solid, consistent and accurate practice, so you should consider whether you've got your psychological trip together sufficiently enough to handle the forthcoming stages of insight in a skillful manner.

My crazy theory is that whichever organ is pumping my piti is overworked... lol, I guess that would be pancreas or um... liver..? I'm not too good with no fancy biology

Shut up. emoticon Don't get into trying to map this to any sort of biological model (yet), just note the sensations and you'll get along fine. It's so simple that you'll risk making it stupidly complicated while not getting any fundamental insight! The same goes for psychological models, they're useful to a point but all of these maps and models are just that.....maps and models, remember that the map is not the territory it describes so stick with practice and you'll get a much better understanding than you would by just thinking about it, or reading about it.

maybe this is linked to this weird thing I do where I exhale deeply and slowly from the bottom of my longs inducing a strong, localized, momentary pleasure, anyone else get that?


It's not weird although I totally understand your confusion, this is all a totally natural process available to anyone with the ability to apply the techniques. What you describe here sounds, to me at least, like momentary concentration on the sensations at the end of the exhalation. It's noting that stop, the pause between each inhale and exhale when you're understanding of what you once saw as a continuous phenomenon, the breath itself, can be seen to be just as transient and empty as any other sensation. Stay with the sensations of the rising, the pausing, the falling, the pausing, and see breath as a series of sensations.

Just take it easy and don't burn yourself out, practice concentration too and avoid noting sometimes so that you can maintain a good balance. Do what feels right but there's no race for the prize here, the answer is in the journey so take your time and have fun with it.
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adam gregory greene, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 105 Join Date: 2/19/11 Recent Posts
unfortunately your post made a little mis-assumption, I am in fact trying to do anapanasati, trying being the key word. I stay with the breath and within a few seconds the sensations I mentioned hit me.

but then again, maybe I have no idea what I'm doing, I try to breathe "sensitive to the whole body" and sensitive to sensations of pleasure/rapture etc.

what even is this "nana"

I'm going to try my absolute hardest now to do it... here we go
k a steger, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Adam -

Why are you doing the following?
p.s. maybe this is linked to this weird thing I do where I exhale deeply and slowly from the bottom of my longs inducing a strong, localized, momentary pleasure, anyone else get that?


Are you trying to extend the pleasure aspect? What is your reason for doing anapanasati? Where is the localization of the pleasure?

Do you "lock" your inhalation or exhalation at their finalities?

Do you know Katsuki Sekida? He's known for more technical instructions on breathing.

In addition to Tommy's points, what happens when you place your concentration at the nostril edges?



Thanks,
Katy
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Apologies for that!

Maybe it'd be worth giving noting a go, if that's the way your meditations are taking you?

If not, just gently bring the attention back to the breath at the anapanasati spot. Imagine how you would direct a puppy towards his food bowl, gently does it, firmly but not too forcefully. Try counting from one to ten on each exhalation, when you get to ten, go back to one, if you find yourself becoming distracted just go back to one and start again, maintain that gentle effort and you'll train the attention to sit where you tell it to sit.

ñana means "knowledge of" (I think!), each vipassana jhana has different ñanas within it e.g. 1st vipassana jhana contains the 1st to the 3rd ñana, Knowledge of Mind & Body to Knowledge of The Three Characteristics. It's just a name for a certain aspect of each stage and if you want to know how to do the cool little ñ then hold down Alt and, on the keypad, type 164 then let it go. emoticon
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adam gregory greene, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 105 Join Date: 2/19/11 Recent Posts
so you guys really like nostrils eh
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
I also enjoy drop-kicking the elderly.
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Beoman Claudiu Beoman, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 2198 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Tommy M:
I also enjoy drop-kicking the elderly.


oh you'd love maddox
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
I used to read Maddox's site quite a lot years ago but he's a boring bastard now. emoticon On the upside, at least he's not Ebaum.
k a steger, modified 10 Years ago.

RE: meditation problem - very annoying

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Adam - I deleted my last reply seeing your more recent posts on AF. best wishes. send a word about nostril-PCE when you can!

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