3/26/11 9:15 AM
I think I understand what happiness is now (experientially). Previously, I would say, "I am content" and I would experience delight (increasingly) in various aspects of the senses. Experiencing wonder more often than not is already a long way from last summer.

While the collective, sincere kindness of people immeasurably helped me get "here" recently, if that kindness were withdrawn (and replaced with the exact opposite), I think this understanding and state would stay.

What I am experiencing is the departure of any bitterness whatsoever, any anger. I have a sense that this is irrevocable. I also have a sense that I can act (if needed) very decisively to intercede on another's behalf without any malice. I think I still have a slight block to my self. Perhaps someone can help here.

I recently experienced heavy doses of self-criticism/fear that I could be failing people and thus harming them, but I have absolutely no anger or resentment at anyone. I can only do my absolute best in an activity (i.e., in the opportunity people let me have to earn my keep (i.e., work/business), interpersonal relations, stewardships, etc), and absolutely accept the removal of that opportunity if for whatever reason I do not bring the right outcomes to the table.

This has no blissed-out quality, i.e., what I experienced as a teen as near-death/OOBE.

Just the absence of bitterness about the nature of being a human here (including here's histories and current affairs of needless interpersonal abuses), the nature of persons' own malice (painting with a broad brush here, it looks like everyone is at some place on a path of letting go of leaden balloons of malice and bitterness). This state could easily be made fun of, and that would be fine, have nothing to do with me, per se.

I do sense suffering that I can see: pain coming at me (in the form of sadness, anger, malice) and pain inherent in the environment.

Let's see how the day, coming week goes.

[edit: some typos, clarity]
[edit: 3/27 moved this to AF thread]

Objectively, now, after obvious foolishness two weeks ago (met with complete kindness), "I am" not bringing malice or anger for anyone. There was a small kerfuffle between myself and another regarding a miscommunicated process. This was followed by my own exaggerated and unsubstantiated reaction later that week to an unrelated but affectively compounded event (meaning: I aggregated a few events which were otherwise unrelated to create affectively a picture of my own failings).

Creating that same picture of delusional or exagerrated failings would be very tiresome and insincere today. Legitimately failing decisions remain worth addressing and scrutinizing.*

That said, I still sense a jolt of being fearful/ appalled by my failing/underperformance. I have no reason to expect perfection in anyone; this fear is an affectation. This is such a useless and tiresome affectation that I could use any suggestions for clearing it away, and hope diligence will accomplish the clearing away.

Otherwise, the first sign of this "happiness" sensation that followed the next week was that, upon, looking back at that kerfuffle moment and, the larger reaction, is that making a choice to be angry/resentful (at being in a world with deliberate cruelties, at anyone/things,etc) appears to be a nonsensical decision (at best) and a harmful choice (at worst).

Removing those affective decisions leaves a welcoming attentive state which, for lack of a more precise expression, feels like a steady pleasant/non-resistant undercurrent (meaning: I am not smiling from ear-to-ear, rather my mental state is welcoming/not averse/relaxed/not controlling).

Aside: I think there is something of an overlay in this non-controlled relaxed state with steadily maligned populations/persons: persons who have been so needlessly/irrationally belittled sometimes adopt a healthfully blasé response in the face of malicious nonsense, saving energy for actual threats/opportunities for change.

There have been momentary, useful examples of useful, non-affective decision-making since first reading various AF writings since last summer; i.e., a drunk adult was berating a kid who fell, hit a bone on a stone, and was crying (specifically, adult was screaming "stupid" seven time in child's face with finger jabs in the air by child's eyes) on a beautiful late summer evening. No need to get more into details, but the evening was absolutely beautiful up to that point and my efforts in PCE terrain had been ongoing and engaged that night. My response to the adult and situation was minimal, public and possibly apt.

"Resentment of being here" (i.e., in my affective case, being in a world with absurd, needless cruelty) is totally gone. Resentment of being here, I think, was certainly a "downer" to anyone around me. On the basis of mirror neurons, I could be seen to have been harming people with this doleful outlook, unless surrounding persons were on top of their own game (choices/views). In which case, such a person could just wonder, "what is she getting out of being sorrowful?" What I was getting out of "sorrowful" was acknowledgement of suffering, but having made an unclear decision to sort it out practically.

My recent more outlandish reaction and the kind, inclusive response, seemed to allow "me" to see that I have an affective habit of demoting my native attributes to inherent failings (i.e., there are still brain-sensation/recall reasons I do not look at people if they are communicating information that I need to remember/learn, but that not-looking-at is not an actual failing - I am in fact receptive to good-natured jokes about it). There's nothing otherwise harmful here (especially with the departure of any imperative to respond to hostility with hostility), just a bit of a different social ability to which well-formed groups or group-forming personages may deem aloof/unusual/confusing/refreshing/etc.

I hope someone here will let me know otherwise if they detect a harmfulness that I cannot see or should query. This is a great value in the DhO: lots of attention to detail. Lots of awareness.

My partner, day-to-day persons, friends, family have been key in accelerating my letting go of needless affective attributes. They are being kind and letting me thrash this out without believing any of it too seriously. I could never have anticipated this. It's like being surprised that drivers actually stop at pedestrian cross-walks. Imagine the pedestrian is yelling, "OMG, this is my fault that I am in your way! OMG!" Makes me laugh.

Whatever is occurring is not complete or "done", but I welcome it. "I am" still embarrassed by some of these native attributes (i.e., exceptional hearing sometimes benefits from ear plugs - again, I welcome jokes about these things), but I would think this could disappear in time. Nor one is embarrassing me for these attributes, so the decision to "be embarrassed" is entirely mine.




______
*A few changes I made in response to my exagerated reaction (after having received a very kind response from people to which I wanted to respond usefully and not waste their kind response, in addition to suddenly seeing the baselessness of my reaction): have only as much coffee as I can metabolize before its cortisol conversion (i.e., 10 oz first thing in the morning followed by a workout). That's that.

Specifically, I had been drinking about 60oz of coffee from 6am to 2pm to compensate for the fatigue of an antibiotic suite (possibly the last); it took a good three weeks of this consumption and an outrageous reaction and assumptions to provoke a review and also look at what I was demoting in my native attributes, deeming abnormal for a mythical "norm", and failure-avoidance while simultaneously declaring failure.

[several syntax and vocab edits]

A bit more...

Despite some interesting, blissful, insightful and unanticipated mental experiences - all of which contributed to the diligence of not quitting in a state of misery/resenting being here (yet which did not resolve it and risked becoming escapist)) - having a non-resistant, relaxed/receptive mental field for actuality is welcome.

A few descriptions come to mind:
- nimble functionality
- "local" to what's actual to my senses, not speculative without a local reason (i.e., thinking through a project's later stages is still local)
- welcomingly attentive, not perfectionist (i.e., distraction may be part of a native state/ a moment)

I am probably coming from a newly relaxed place, a conviction of "Things are" (which I got logically in my degree studies, but not mentally convinced/not humanly calmed by) versus "this place is perfect". I don't see how "perfection" has any bearing. What is that?

And I still have "Self". So what next?

must 'i' be so perfect..?

(if it's okay for 'others' to not be, why not 'me'?)

tarin

Although "I" understand your point, perhaps a new habit (such as querying the nonsense of repetitive "failing" self-declarations, nipping in the bud) will lift that.

Maybe incongruently, I do "get" that no self needs to be here for my existence. I clearly see that identity is a double-edged sword, which sword does not need to exist. I am not attached to any aspect of myself, except that which you have addressed. Native attributes (like brain, muscularity, circulation) have fine conduct; in the absence of identity there seems to be more apt behavior, laughter, attention, and zero interest in causing harm, nor perpetuating hostility.

Maybe better to deal with one thing at a time (the above), yet I have this question, as well:

Would you respond to "distraction"?

Would mental distraction occur during a mental event (like reading/writing a technical document) if "I" were sincerely willing to be with the subject matter? I think my reading is improving, but I don't want to be deluded or affectively hoping for something here, such as perfect mental attention. For example, my typos reflect a good bit of impatience. I am not afraid to be determined biologically incompetent in this task, but I wonder if distraction is impatience and a product of self.

So distraction indicates something (self) wants to do something other than what it is doing (say reading a technical document).

I accept that these changes may just involve time and attention, too. In fact, that make the most sense as any achievement usually requires repetition.


[three typo edits and...signing off now: too much online/thinking tends to backfire for me!]

dunno bout you but i make typos all the time

i like typing, sometimes my fingers just stumble over the keys, not exactly what you would call, gracefully

a lot of commas, probably dont need them all either

just formatting trying to do the best job i can for others to read

Of course you are posing this question to Tarin but it occurs to me that an AF person 1) has no ulterior motives or conflicting desires so everything is sincere and 2) a mental distraction is a cue that something needs to be examined and the quicker the better.

A little bit more about #1: An AF person still has to do chores (reading a technical document in this example) and if not for the financial obligation an AF person would be doing something else. However, an AF person can easily and without effort find any chore interesting and therefore pleasant. Furthermore, there is no feeling that one should be doing something else. Still, they are probably distracted all the time as the brain is very fast and not subject to will so associations can come up when one "should" be processing the technical document. But as there is no confusion of existence, no feeling of 'should,could,would, if only", etc such associations can be either dismissed or followed up on but that decision is purely logical and not based on "should,could,would",etc.


And I'll talk about #2 since that is clearly the more important point. If you feel that you need to get this work chore done before bedtime say but keep getting distracted then that is an opportunity for a sincere examination. You have to examine not only the distractions but also the feeling of needing to get this work done.

Thanks for the thread. I'm enjoyed it and expect to learn much from it.

Happiness continues to be something that naturally results from the removal of hostilities.

The tension around hostile feeling is very palpable: chest, forehead, biceps, shoulders. I am just seeing that arrival of fear is the same physical interruption of otherwise well-being/no-being/doing.

I could say lots of surprising experiences are occurring, but experience just feels very good and I wonder what I was actually doing before.

Additionally, I sat in the sunset for a few hours on Sunday evening and occasionally repeated the understanding that "i" am a belief of "i".

Puked up all sorts of stuff Monday before work (response to abx), had a little fever and went into work just fine. Fever continued on/off. Thought of Tarin describing his own bout of giardia (?) after af.

Partner asked how my day was, and I said "Great!" - to which he was surprised and said, "wow, great". Found myself making all sorts of eye contact today, no effort, I literally found myself in the middle of eye contact and had no registry of facial expression confusion, body language. Everyone was just resonating. I cannot explain this. It is hazy, but good!

If this is the direction of losing self, then it's awesome.

HI Jon,

I deliberately posted a little ahead of my "comfort zone" to provoke any fear/regret/anxiety. Let's see.

These are the big ones for me. I am also naturally finding myself doing things that abate anxiety. Going to bed pretty early, found myself doing 40 minutes of yoga before work yesterday, am going to work earlier - no effort.

It's funny how I cannot remember when I have not felt that every day could be my last - but somehow I was not still getting that.

Another tidbit: experiencing sight in the eyes via meditation is possibly a bit different than experiencing sight at the eyes with no cognitive self-aware process. Can anyone relate or speak to this?

Also, smiled at someone brushing their teeth yesterday morning, then sort of gently "came out of" the experience very simply realizing (this is a little too strong a word though) it was "me". No dissociative feeling, no "aha", nothing jarring. Only precedent memories were: bristles on gums and smiling at person.


[edit:typos, cognitive replaced with self-aware]

There is plenty of self here still.

It seems like your doing a good job at becoming more and more harmless. Any negative affect that arises DO NOT give it any energy and be attentive. It will dissipate and if it doesn't then thats something to very calmly investigate. When harmless and happy, being naive (like your experiencing and sensing every moment for the first time) should bring PCE. First happy and harmless, then naive will bring PCE. The intellect is operating and knows your goal of AF so "you" don't pursue AF let it happen with attentiveness. These things have been helping me lately.

From Bruno's disappearance thread 3/30/11:

JON T


I am not sure, but it seems like experiencing affective aggression is a historic re-iteration now. It, like fear/anxiety, are felt coming up in places where they were previously, however, previously, "i" was filtering/narrating the experience.

By way of example again with sight: previously with sight meditation (like kasina) there was still awareness of an "I" having sight. Now, I think there is more visual sense without ownership by awareness/"i".

Thus too, the feelings of aggression and fear are definitely felt as bodily tension, but, for the moment, they aren't taken on action attributes.

As adam bieber noted:


Where are the returns to indulging fear/anxiety/hostility? Sleep. Now in sleep I am getting scenes and some feeling of anxiousness, but it is a bit funny how these are getting resolved at the same time, same way (dissipation, non-indulgence). Night before last: hanging off of a cliff, then "got bored" by fear of falling, holding on, and let go. Nothing else. I am also not facing "deliberate cruelty" triggers too much at the moment, not providing my self with discursive triggers or thoughts. I hope to confront that trigger after whatever is occurring now has more time-in.

To be clear, a very banal life is occurring, there's absolutely no super-feeling overlay about it. However, the life occurring is getting less attached to uselessly applied lead weights and, for the much of the time, nothing stands in the way of welcome/engagement/happiness.

That said, this is a charmed life with shelter, clean water, ready food. Welcome/engagement/happiness would seem to be the standard response to such good circumstances. What have I been doing to be away from this?


[edits for clarity]

Do you notice that you can switch between perspectives? I often do this for fun while looking in the bathroom mirror. Possibly there is a riddle to be solved in the 'ability to switch'... though I have no idea- what that could be.

Katy S:



Hey Katy, I thought about this a lot today because although I am increasingly harmless, I seem to experience a lot of boredom i.e. a very banal life. Then I realized, this was happening because although I was harmless, I wasn't happy or felicitous. I was a blank slate with nothing happening but as soon as I started gently building felicitous feelings and happiness, the boredom immediately went away and the EE experiences were a million times better. Every experience is a happy one that feels relaxed and fun. When one is happy, it is impossible to be bored. This is why any activity can be fun because YOU are happy. The harmlessness gives you a blank slate. Then you GENTLY build felicitous feeling i.e. Happy AND Harmless, then you are naive and go into a fun EE and PCE.

Adam: thank you!

I chose the word "banal" incorrectly, misunderstanding its meaning. After looking it up ("hackneyed", lacking freshness"), it is exactly not the word i should have used.

Let me try again: my "regular" life is going on (there is nothing glossy to it, no euphoria), and I am laughing and whatnot these days: this welcoming condition is naturally occurring absent hostilities and wanting.

I have not needed to add felicity or happiness. Benignity is just there, maybe uncovered (i.e., a glacier moves off of land and the land rises. Land was not added.)




There is still self, but it's a bit more open self, not creating hostilities. What does come up occasionally are fear pangs (not related to evaporating self, just cultivated fear, such as fearing a burglar at night).

I have a lot of garden re-/prepair going on today: a great chance to be outside.

Things are still going along usefully.

"Historic" or latent hostility ((i) an aggravation that becomes "visible" to "me" just as it's rising up (something like emerging blob coming up from middle of the head-and-sternum-and-shoulder zone, like pre-tension), or (ii) a rigid physical sensation if the feeling comes to the surface, i.e., embodied tension) is still evident, but it is either quickly spotted at the aggravation stage or dropped immediately once noted at the outward tension phase.

I find I take care of my self better, and those are more instantaneous decisions versus any effort.

Anxiety has been the focus of my attention for the past two weeks and it pays. The start of any worrisome narrative has a short lived footing, literally from under a minute to about three minutes, though it can still pack a punch. This is a tremendous shift.

Native attributes (i.e., attention to detail) seem to function "better" without the acceptance of all sorts of self-generated narratives (like anxiety, hostility).

Plenty of self/awareness still.

I am curious why theory of mind has a space on the af site. Does anyone know?

Steph S. - thanks for this; well said.

RE: Only Moment of Being Alive - Mar 2011
3/21/11 12:46 AM as a reply to Nad A..


It is interesting that that movement of a being through time does not reinforce or create any selfhood.

One could fall into a way of thinking that tracks the momentness, I am here now, look at here now, the typing if here now - an granular world of awareness. Tarin addressed this somewhere recently too, saying something to the effect [my paraphrasing may be wrong] that that such self-/awareness of now would impede af/pce.

It is fascinating (spoken like a true Self) that when exactly in each moment there is no room for self and its narration/awareness.

And it is somewhat impressive that a self can overlay itself so protectively onto every single atomic moment preventing the experience of openness.

Hi Paul - no I cannot switch perspectives (at will). "I" would not have even noticed it had "i" left the mirror before "coming to." It is interesting that you can; are you intending for anatta/af/evaporation of self?

So what is your default 'mirror-mode'? Do you not experience self-fluctuation ever? You're experience is probably more matured than mine. I think the ability to switch from 'someone' to 'no-one' is the result of a perspective of 'no-one' being applied, and not 'someone' being subtracted. Because 'no-one' is not equal to a pure experience, it's a perspective only, but it shows how permeable this being is.

My aim is untainted freedom, and I have learned that being has to go for that to occur, because just being 'someone' in and for itself, is painful.

a default "mirror mode": by this I think you mean mode of abeyance?

Driving has been the best so far. There is something surreal about moving so much faster than my legs can carry "me". What I also notice is driving clearly shows how still a being is despite the motion obviously going on around it. As well, a car (as opposed to a moped or bike) permits a lot of relaxation (temperature control, relaxed grip, natural posture): I can be alert to traffic and the road, but have very little else to do other than accelerate, steer, and decelerate (while biking and mopeds can be much more physical (alarming, tiring, bugs in the face). I tend to slow down while driving now as well. Most key: before considering that anatta/af was possible (and that it really would be good for "me" and possibly for those around me), my drive was externally silent (no radio/music/etc) yet internally, it was a racket (thoughts). Now, the drive is truly quiet and very relaxing.

However, I've wanted to get out of that habit zone and started to take the train. I missed three trains on the way home Monday night which allowed "me" to sit alone on a few platforms and take in the senses. I have a 25 minute walk from the final station to my desk, and this allows me more time to take in the sense while physically moving, see about "stillness".

Hey Paul,

The self-fluctuation is something that happened to me often about a month ago. I would be my normal identity and than actively shift to an EE. It would go back and forth like this and seem like two different worlds, where the identity/"me" world was predominant . Eventually the self started to deteriorate and in self-mode, the identity was less evasive with a lesser degree of identity and than moving to EE was more like the "real" world instead of self-mode. Self-mode became like a state of dreaming where I would have to constantly wake myself up to get to the peaceful actual world. Now, where at first, self-mode was predominant and EE was stepping into another world, I deliberately yet easily act and make EE mode predominant, where the senses just work on their own and when the self-state arises, it is an internal dream. Being in the actual world is more normal and where I want to be. The EE's are perfect but sometimes lack delight and joy. The senses seem to just be working on their own. This was my process and you seem to be on the right track.

Katy,

Driving has been awesome for me. It really lets you take in the sights, while moving, and listening to great music. Some of my most intense PCE's have been while driving. The sky always takes my breathe away. Like you said about dependency, sometimes "I" feel as if "I" am dependent on music but i wonder if i am allowed to be dependent on music because it is essentially dependency on hearing. Stillness seems to be almost like an internal phenomenon and happens mostly for me while trying to go to sleep. Again, the EE's are inherently perfect but they seem to lack that sense of delight or joy. Sometimes delight floats to the surface and it is incredible but I don't know how to keep the delight/joy constant while in EE. In PCE, idk if theres delight, there probably is but I am just too awed at everything. Sometimes I don't know if I am in a really perfect EE or a PCE. Also, Richard spoke of imitating the actual like having the senses imitate the actual and this has made my senses become actual, its pretty easy to do.

The perfect is perfect but I know with joy, each moment would be the best moment of my life.

Hi Adam, I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean EE/PCE. The self-fluctuation is deliberately warping ones self-perception. The difference is that when you see yourself as 'no-one' you still see yourself as 'no-one'; you are still there.

Still I can relate to what your saying about switching, although I tend to focus more on 'self'-understanding (who am I? etc.), which I now feel done with. I'm currently working on dissolving reality.

What I said about switching still applies though: What is this ability to switch?

[I see now I'm not that good at making myself clear, communication is not my greatest skill]

Hostility/resentment/tension is always the silent partner to fear/anxiety.

This re-doubles the "nipping in the bud" of anxiety, fear, and cultivation of benignity while "i" am here.

Yes, I understand what your saying Paul. Its the same sort of switch whether or not it becomes an EE. Your switching from "someone" to "no one" even though they are both an identity. The "no one" identity is a subtler identity and can easily foster harmlessness, where one must give no energy to a feeling arising. As "no one," I EE pretty easily by applying sensuousness, which I think is why I mentioned EE. Maybe I miscommunicated and am still miscommunicating because its is hard for me to convey the right AF wording (everything is very experiential). Definitely continue reading the AF website because Richard and friends know exactly what to say and understandings can arise immediately after reading. Have fun!

Also, I wouldn't be so consumed with why things happen like the ability to shift perspectives. This can lead "you" in circles. Try to neither express your repress any feelings and stay at the tip of your senses, such as being at the eyes or ears and hearing/seeing from this perspective. Investigate only when necessary but over investigating is only a hindrance. The AF method is relaxed and shouldn't be a hardcore investigation (although an investigation does occur) into the self since your trying to rid the self and not feed it by continuously researching it.

Let me [1] go on the record for having read and found useful this AF page

CTRL+F "James Cook": this was an encouraging analogy for the non-arahant AF.

CTRL+F "little man": for a chuckle.








_______
[1] she who likes to say often and how she does not read the site...

[Edits: clarity, typo, excesses]

I disagree, although you shouldn't be investigating endlessly if its not yielding results, hardcore investigation is very much needed.

Unless! ...you can stay happy, harmless, naive and sincere at all times, off the bat. If that is your situation then my hat goes off to you.

Something I learned today was that all decisions one makes ranging from which radio station to use to the road one takes to get home is based on intuition, a feeling, of which is incorrect and correct. The intuition has to be examined and dissipated.

Intuition* is a challenge for me. I realize that Trent has gone into this, but I did not and still do not understand.

For example, if I see, based on their body language, that someone is writing me a bad check**, is this intuition and do I need to/why should I forego it?

In some ways, this is a technical query for which selfless actuality would answer. Lacking that, however, thoughts welcome. =)




*Google search definition:
1. The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
2. A thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious

**This is the value of sincerity: it is sensory when a person is fully in agreement with themselves


[edits: clarity]

Frankly, no answer to the intuition point is also welcome. I can't see how clearing up my inability to understand the point raised in another thread will help my current status.

Intuition, if it is considered a special, egoic, prophetic extension of one's own natural and nearly automated registry of a scene (body language, conditions, environs), then yes, intuition-value would be a bit goofy, prone to pitfalls.

I would say, though, at our physical-attributes level, we perceive a tremendous amount of accurate information of which we are not usefully aware due to affective attentions.

Trent, if I've wholesale missed your point, I welcome your/others' any explanation here.

________
Current "status" update

1. basically good times abound unless I get in the way
2. PCEs remain incredibly short

I listened to the HR talks again today, especially for PCE information, and became focused on minutes 32:34 onwards

[editing]

I took a massive amount of time to eventually cancel posting a bit on sorrow in the face of cruelty. If that issue surfaces for me again, I suppose I will have to air it out. I'd like to think that each time I go down that road, it becomes less and less a futile, thrashing quagmire.

HR talks 1: 32:34 onwards

Hey Katy,

About intuition (my perspective/what i've noticed), it is a whole body sensation that propels one to either A. act a certain way based on a belief (manifested in the feeling of intuition) and B. take a specific action based on the feeling that one is not doing what one is supposed to be doing.

Because actualism is counter-intuitive, the easiest way to perceive intuition during practice is that subtle but overarching bodily sensation that you are not doing something right. This feeling leads to thoughts and one gets stuck circling on the thought but it derives from the feeling of intuition that is telling your "self" that "you" are doing something wrong. Gently investigate to have it dissipate.

I say intuition is a bodily sensation because it is different than a passion or emotion. Passions and emotions seem to come from the gut and are thick but often focused in the gut area. Intuition is everywhere (one feeling in all the body), is lighter, but still very persuasive.

It is hard to notice intuition at first because it is subtle and is often the basis feeling behind many actions thus a feeling overlooked as your busy acting and thinking about what your doing/what action your taking.

I wouldn't look for intuition but know that it exists. Continue with selflessness and you'll inevitably sooner than later realize its there, a lot. Just continue with what your doing and soon you'll be able to decipher it instantly and its pretty easy to dissipate.

gotta go, but intuition is an interesting topic, i'd be interested in hearing your discoveries in the future.

There is also a fair amount of release in this. I am not changing my life apparently in any way: it looks like the barge of my existence is still steadily tugging along. Funny how nothing can change, but a lot can lift.

I have a piece of pale green chabasie on my desk. It is a quartz that forms glass-like cubes over its eons of formation. It is not covered, it is not extra, and it builds glassy cubes. It makes me smile that I try/struggle to do so much more.

_____
edits,deletions

Yes, exactly, a release. That is the dissipation of intuition. The barge of your existence does tug a long, but intuition via feeling wants to direct your way. You could be in your car and intuition is telling you to turn on the radio or take that left. Its best to be free of its influence, be in the perfection, and make decisions from pure intellect.

Yes, the intuition has you trying and struggling because it always wants you to do something or if your not doing something, it makes you feel bad about it. The release is great . Stay at the tip of your senses. Watch yourself seeing, hearing, etc. This way energy goes toward your senses and not the internal world. Everything is so perfect and this process is soo easy, at least now it is.

If you can't be happy, just be harmless.

To drop into buddhism and only find Ummon could result in learning that buddha is a dried shit stick.*

To drop into Romuald’s paradise ("destroy yourself completely") later in the 1200s could result in thinking paradise requires sending the kids off to crusade.

I've read now some of the af forum and some of its essays. It has few claimants, so the experience body is narrow. When I dropped into Peter's article on his newfound intimate life with companion, I had about a few minutes of “I am a dreadful partner" (which may be true, but that opinion is not my decision) then seeing this part of his diary as one man's account of freedom. Stefanie’s account here is her ongoing account. Trent's, Tarin’s, their own unique accounts, not identical.

Richard has Actual Freedom in a framework of firsts ascents and antithetical views (such as assigning a final state of Self-ness to zen which cannot be corroborated across all zen/buddhist teachings). Ultimately, I don’t understand why he isolates his method (sales?) - or why he employs the word harmless, or why intuition is deemed surfeit (Vineeto seems to make use of it to avoid being hassled or raped). However, there’s no current need to understand it. I find Richard’s focus on felicity and benignity useful and his personal history as a soldier and seeker relevant. I.e., if I wanted to play soccer and only had a volley ball, it wouldn’t help to disparage the ball (and some readers know that my soccer skills cannot be further challenged by ball-disparagement).

Other threads I've found useful recently: Florian pulled up MN 121; the Lesser Discourse on Emptiness.

This week hearing people discuss their various practices (tonglen, satchitananda, lay oblation) - these all seem relevant and useful to the people using them.

Frankly, the actualist instruction would be fairly inaccessible to me if it weren’t for tarin’s explanations of it. His explanations were apparently key to Stefanie, Daniel’s own interest, and clearly a lot of seekers on the DhO. There are a lot of useful practices for anatta, and few who attain and can explain broadly and specifically. I am not pinning the objective on or glorifying a person, just noting that if tarin extirpated self in another tradition, I would pay attention to that tradition as well.

Richard’s exclusion of other practices is apparent, and may attract people who benefit from crisp exclusion (of, for example, buddhism and the ceremonial embellishments/mythology which have developed over the years).
_____
*thank you, BCS.

what i gather from his writings is that he read about a lot of other methods and their results don't match up with his

he said the physical acts of violence aren't the problem, it's just the malice that causes them. so it's an entirely non-physical harmlessness. i suppose another word could have been used


i hear there is no intuition once one is AF so that would be the simplest explanation

Hi, I've been and continue to enjoy reading your thread. I have some comments

" I don’t understand why he isolates his method (sales?)"

I think it is to differentiate AF from spirituality. To my experience they head in totally different directions in terms of experience. Richard's writings on the difference between the here and now of AF and the here and now of spirituality were informative to me on this point. They actually are speaking about entirely different places.

"or why intuition is deemed surfeit (Vineeto seems to make use of it to avoid being hassled or raped)"

I think you're referring to this sentence here from the article, "To know the human instinctual pattern can help me to decide when I want to attract and when I want to be ‘invisible’ in order to not be hassled or raped."

Reading this I fail to find how you could conclude that Vineeto is using intuition to avoid these situations. It would seem just as plausible a conclusion that she could be using an intellectual or experiential knowledge of the human instinctual pattern to avoid hassle or rape rather than intuition. As the context of the article is geared towards making use of sensibility, I would lean toward the latter explanation rather than intuition.

"I am not pinning the objective on or glorifying a person, just noting that if tarin extirpated self in another tradition, I would pay attention to that tradition as well."

I wasn't aware that AF was a tradition in the sense of the wiki definition, "A tradition is a ritual, belief or object passed down within a society, still maintained in the present, with origins in the past". Rather than a tradition I see it as a method eg. a series of steps to follow to get a result. However I agree that Tarin's explanations are extremely useful in that they have allowed me to correlate things between the various AF writers and reach a better intellectual understanding of AF. This has been useful but the hard part has been in getting the actual understanding.

Using intuition (whoops) I would say you're trying to either lump AF with spirituality or employ spiritual practices with AF. My experience has been that it is tricky to do both unless you have a mind that is sharpened from practices previous and can maintain that skill and application to the AF method in the light of bliss and feelings of oneness etc. I certainly don't have the kind of sharpness and am prone to chasing oneness or the super Self so I tend to avoid such practices these days.

HI Matt and BCD Emu (i never get to use the word Emu and have really enjoyed your photo, Claudio...),

Thanks for your thoughts.

This point about intuition* I don't get. Maybe I have none?

Spiritual practices being lumped in with AF: sure. I see the utility of what people are practicing for themselves (i.e., tonglen), have no aversion to practicing with them, and am glad something works for them at that moment. When I used to do rescue work I had no problem praying with people who asked me to pray with them, and could still do so that sincerely today if asked. Someone sick wants me to pray with them while I am their caregiver? No problem. I am not going through the motions - I am literally praying with and for them. It feels a little foreign to me, but logically, I know I don't know everything (including whether there is one god or a panoply). I have no sense that "I am a good person" as a result of this (or anything else). If someone sees the world through deism, I may follow the conversation, their efforts within their context. This does not appear to effect my own actualism in the slightest. I do not think of the context of actualism as more right. It is just the context in which I places itself now.

Otherwise, I have no practice I think of as spiritual. When I wait for an appointment and just sit, I cannot say if I am doing breathing meditation or actualism: I am sitting and breathing, hearing, occasionally watching with eyes. Similarly, if someone sees me sitting and says, you look so peaceful, there's nothing for me to "correct" there, although "peaceful" was not in my own head. When gardening, if someone appreciates this as "me communing with Nature/enjoying god's bounty", I am not inclined to "correct" anyone on this and say "Nope, just shoveling cow poop". The other person is happy and relating, and then we relate.

I appreciated Stefanie's break-down of compassion (which I cannot find at the moment, but which I recall as along the lines of inauthentic "co-suffering"). Yet, compassion - from perhaps a basis of mirror neurons - seems as literal as eyesight. Seeing someone (or myself) in the middle of pain/misery/suffering can be quite understandable between people and species. This doesn't mean I wail; it just means I see a situation that is pain/misery/suffering and which may not be alleviated (ever, or at that moment). So, compassion for a kid, for example, who is as likely to be harmed in foster care as they are in their natural home, is not a forced or inauthentic action - I see the kid and myself (an outsider aware of a situation) in a context that is hard to change quickly, but may be improved over time.

I appreciate that actualism is distinctly carved-out from other traditions (and based on the definition you provided, actualism is a tradition now being passed on through time) - this isolation has uses. Yet, I see no reason to go on about any fallacies of zen, for example, when its existence has no bearing on one's actualism/actual freedom. Only the ways in which Richard practiced/studied/viewed zen/zen fallacies bears on why he chose actualism. As AF conveys no omniscience, I see no reason why it would create perfection either, so Richard's decision to take on/demote other traditions is just part it. I don't understand it, could speculate ("sales?"), and bring it up to say that, like Ummon's shit-stick, this aspect of Richard could become a distraction/disproportion in the narrow experience body of his copyrighted Actual Freedom. This has been my experience anyway.



____________
*
in·tu·i·tion/ˌint(y)o͞oˈiSHən/Noun
1. The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
2. A thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious

i think intuition is overloaded to mean two things: emotional intuition (e.g. strong suspicion that something is wrong or someone is lying but without knowing why or being able to explain it) and intellectual intuition (e.g. immediate apprehension of a fact or chain of reasoning which, if the understanding can't immediately be vocalized, always can be upon further inspection). from what i understand, the former disappears in a PCE/upon AF while the latter gets more and more fine-tuned.

apprehension of other people suffering doesn't go away (intellectual intuition), but feeling bad for them does (emotional intuition).


ah i see your point and i share similar sentiments. luckily, like you said, it doesn't matter ("has no bearing on one's actualism/actual freedom"). if it really bothers one, one could investigate the fallacies for oneself and see what's up and whether one comes to a different conclusion than Richard

If etymology online is an accurate resource:

intuition
late 15c., from M.Fr. intuition, from L.L. intuitionem (nom. intuitio) "a looking at, consideration," from L. intuitus, pp. of intueri "look at, consider," from in- "at, on" + tueri "to look at, watch over" .

Again, google search defintion:
in·tu·i·tion/ˌint(y)o͞oˈiSHən/Noun
1. The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
2. A thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning.

I am unclear on this "let go of intuition" (and again, I may have none of what you describe). In the disappearance of Bruno thread, Trent writes,
RE: The disappearance of "Bruno" (practice thread)
4/6/11 11:33 AM as a reply to Bruno Loff.

(Bold font for emphasis).

How is innate (in·nate/iˈnāt/Adjective, Inborn; natural) not intuition?

Per the Vineeto reference to her not being raped or hassled (link is upthread), she is using forethought about a potential future situation (unless she is changing her attire and mannerism at the exact moment she encounters rapers and hasslers) - eventually, that forethought becomes habit, innate action. Is it intuition or innate ability that I do not walk down certain streets and alleys alone, drunk?

For some reason last fall, I returned to one of my silk worms (by then a moth) her cocoon. She appeared dead or long gone into unconsciousness. (Days before she had reached out a foreleg when I got down and looked at her eyes (for the dullness of senescence) - until that movement, she had not moved for about seven days (her mates were dead and her eggs laid). In response, I put my pinky down to her and she walked into my hand. I cupped my hands around her and blew air from my nose (warm, but not moist like mouth air) - her wings buzzed (we did this for a while: breathe-buzz/breathe-buzz/breathe-buzz; maybe she was cold, just naturally invigorated by airflow). I eventually had to transfer her to a spoon of silk. Two days of sitting motionless on the spool with cloudy eyes, she seemed quite dead. Then I recalled her cocoon and placed it near where she dangled from the spool by a leg.) The next morning after putting the cocoon above where she dangled I saw no moth or cocoon. About a foot away I found broken, disembodied wings on my desk, and a little further, the cocoon, inside of which she had placed herself. Was it intuition to return to a dying being its own self-made shelter? Was it innate ability? Was it affective concern and my personal appreciation for hospice? I was certainly glad to be of some use to a dying being. Clearly, after so much immobility, it developed an interest in mobility enough to return to the interior of its cocoon.

I'm not sure I understand the issue you're having.. what is the issue, exactly? Why do you feel the need to let go of 'intuition', however you understand it? In what particular way is it affecting you?

For me it's just come up in various particular ways (e.g. it felt like i should focus all of my attention on this painful knot in my head to get rid of it, but that only greatly intensified it.. what has worked, on the other hand, is just relaxing and being attentive of everything around me. that was counter-intuitive, and still is - when the knot flares up i'm knocked off balance for a bit until i 'figure out' how to relax again, i.e. stop reacting to it in that way which just makes it react more). but it wasn't a general "must eliminate intuition" type thing.

-----

another way i think to define it might be as follows:

if you have a burning crush on someone, intuition tells you to follow them around and try to get with them. and if when you try to do it you get afraid, intuition tells you to back off. (then intuition tells you to cry because you couldn't do it - whoop dee doo.)
if you are angry at someone intuition tells you to go and confront them and yell at them about it, or to vent it on someone else, often without knowing why.
if you have problems with one particular group of people and you dislike them, intuition tells you to complain about it to other people you know/groups you belong to.
basically, any emotion you have, intuition tells you to 'fulfill' that emotion by taking the steps it leads you to do, be it cry, yell at people, etc.
but what the actualist method recommends is to figure out what exactly the emotion is, figure out what exactly immediately triggered it, why it's there, what belief system caused it to arise, and once it's figured out and it dissipates, to remember the whole scenario so next time you can nip it in the bud. hence: counter-intuitive (i.e. counter-what the emotion tells you to do).

Innate ability is not what you think it is. Innate ability is seeing the self clearer and clearer until the mind opens wider and wider into the actual world. Innate ability is the ability to see the self with the mind/intellect and weaken the self and in consequence, be more and more in the perfect world and less and less like the human condition. This is your innate ability, to become actual and not a circling entity of fear etc.

Innate ability is the mind/intellect opening up without the distraction of emotion. Just a seeing mind. The mind is a cavern with a narrow hole. The rocks on the side of the cavern are rust from emotion. As you take away the rust, the mind gets wider and able to more recognize itself and the self's layer, which is its innate ability to do so and to continually clean the rust of the self.

If its in the past, it was most likely intuition that brought you somewhere (or the intellect than the intuition) but the past no longer matters. Only the actual and the actual is layered with intuition. Once you "let go" (which YOUR going to have to figure out how to do), the feeling releases into a blank relaxed state of harmlessness. You no longer "have" to do anything because there is no feeling/the congruent thought to tell "you" to do anything unless its an after thought of something that must be done like make the next right turn. It is also sometimes difficult to tell if a decision one made is from intuition or the intellect/common sense but pondering this is usually pondering into the self and not actual.

One reason why Intuition is hard to spot is because it can seem like an impulse into the right action to take. You don't notice the impulse just that your action is right but it is right based on a feeling telling you it is right. In the game of survival, which we both are still located, intuition is our guiding light but this can be no more so as it is not actual and but a useful trick to ensure survival.

Although "you" may be more or less virtually free, there is still an influential self there trying to trick one into all kinds of ideas and beliefs.

Until then, practice and patience and richard's writings will make sense as well as your own factual knowledge of what some currently confusing terms are. In particular, Adam Bieber gets nervous about what the end result of actuality will be but then "I" see how infected and painful the self and the instinctual passions and realize only actuality can set "me" free from suffering.

HI Beoman,

No issue. I was curious about trent and others' comments entre innate ability and intuition. Thanks for considering it.

As you described how you interpret the meaning of intuition above, i considered the words "assumptive", "narrow" and "self-serving". An assumptive-narrow-self-serving attribute. Oh, I have sure done assumptive-narrow-self-serving style.

Self is not reinforced by "understand[ing] something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning", i.e., what is water in various contexts.

Self is not also reinforced by "knowing or considering [xyz] likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning", such as ceasing to eat more candy once I feel sick. Eventually, I intuit that if I do not overeat the candy I may not feel sick.

it might be. like you look upon a plate of food you're not used to. 'eww i dnno looks kinda weird/gross..' then you take a little nibble and the texture almost makes you sick 'blagh!! gros!!'

yet next to you someone is eating it voraciously

hypothetical-you was considering the food from a vantage point of fear of the unknown.. it didn't really give the unfamiliar a chance! said aversion would then be reinforced

HI Adam -

Thanks for your thoughts.

"Innate ability is not what you think it is. Innate ability is seeing the self clearer and clearer until the mind opens wider and wider into the actual world. Innate ability is the ability to see the self with the mind/intellect and weaken the self and in consequence, be more and more in the perfect world and less and less like the human condition. This is your innate ability, to become actual and not a circling entity of fear etc."

[indent]To me, innate ability is biological. For example, eyesight. It changes over time, but is innate at each moment. (Inborn, natural). Innate ability comprises mirror neurons. You express physical pain, my pain neurons will fire. Compassion (with feeling). I might not be weeping, but compassion - for my brain - is innate. I see someone in pain and suffering, my own mirror neurons are said to fire - and I experience at least a ripple of sensation/motivation to assist the ending of suffering. The concern to end another's suffering is biologically innate, tied to the concern of ending my brain's mirroring another's suffering. Feeling suffering in response to another's suffering is not an affective overlay. I.e., you hit your hand with a hammer and your face shows pain, a baby experiences fixed attention by your facial expression (or even cries if you shout about it), a young person who has experienced hand pain is likely to wince. This is biological. Social species often have innate mirroring (dogs, marsupials, whales, bees, etc).*[/indent]

"Although "you" may be more or less virtually free, there is still an influential self there trying to trick one into all kinds of ideas and beliefs."
[indent]
As far as I can tell, there is no one here trying to trick me. There is me candid about what it is doing and lessening attachment. Can you be more specific? It would be easy for me to miss such a thing. Thanks for considering it.[/indent]

"Until then, practice and patience and richard's writings will make sense as well as your own factual knowledge of what some currently confusing terms are. In particular, Adam Bieber gets nervous about what the end result of actuality will be but then "I" see how infected and painful the self and the instinctual passions and realize only actuality can set "me" free from suffering."
[indent]
Richard's writings are as fallible as anyone else's...there are ludicrous conclusions if one extends his statements to logical conclusions. Any buddhist writing may also be seen to have ludicrous far-points. What I appreciate is that another person has indicated that i-ness/Observer can evaporate and leave a remarkable unobstructed experience in its wake. [/indent]


*Are our mirror neurons of pain feeling not the same as the bee's waggle dance?

[Edits: clarity?]

HI Beoman -

I have eaten a number of odd things when hosted: whale blubber, cockroaches are two memorable ones. Memorable for their tastes, and memorable because eating animals that don't keel over on their own (independent of my actions) is "taking without permission" in a particularly harmful, selfish way (to this (my) brain, because it is possible that I exist without this taking). Yet I have done this in learning about my self and survival, and do not begrudge the predatory animal (incl. humans) the same experiences.

True - I have aversions though, some innate and reflective of bodily intelligence (such as not eating the car dashboard) and some willfully disgusted (i.e., not consuming regurgitated stuff).

When I read Bones of the Master and the passage about Tsung Tsai swimming through sewage to get to freedom (he notes that he still gags today), I recognize that disgust is a very challenging aspect of i-ness. My gag reflex is certainly an opportunity to see what is disgusting/who can be disgusted.

[edits for clarity]

oo can you name a few? it sounds like a fun exercise

aye, luckily we don't have to trigger every possible emotion and overcome it in order to be actually free.. that would be quite a laborious process.


a reflex is different from an emotion. e.g. on the actualist site richard has written he can still be startled - as in have the startle reflex without conscious action - but the fear with it no longer arises. likewise i expect an actually free person would still have a gag reflex (as in a tendency to throw up if something is jammed down their throat)[1] but would not have the feeling-disgust normally associated with it. and i hear the latter reflex can be habituated.. i hear bulemics have particularly good control over it

[1] i wonder if they would throw up because of a particularly overwhelming stench. who wants to mail-bomb trent? =P

"a reflex is different from an emotion. e.g. on the actualist site richard has written he can still be startled - as in have the startle reflex without conscious action - but the fear with it no longer arises. likewise i expect an actually free person would still have a gag reflex (as in a tendency to throw up if something is jammed down their throat)[1] but would not have the feeling-disgust normally associated with it. and i hear the latter reflex can be habituated.. i hear bulemics have particularly good control over it

[1] i wonder if they would throw up because of a particularly overwhelming stench. who wants to mail-bomb trent? =P"*

[indent]Gag reflex is driven by emotion. Example, I see feces in a toilet, I may gag. I see feces involuntarily released by one injured (i.e., a gastro injury) - no gag.

A knee reflex, however, is myotatic, Muscle is obliged to move if stimulated (where synapses function).

Startle reflex: you may take interest in page 15 here, search "Osher". Startle reflex can go away.



*Enlightened and AF persons have stinky farts? There was a time in which I may have started the thread, "Stinky Farts: where's your harmlessness now?"[/indent]

ah that's what you meant - i thought you referred to the physical one, e.g. the one triggered when you stick a finger in your mouth.

i heard about the startle reflex from another book - it's nice to see this more detailed, technical account of it.

interesting that oeser did not move, while his heart-rate, blood pressure, and sweating was affected, whereas richard moved yet his heart-rate, blood pressure and sweating were un-affected.

Hey guys, the socio-instinctual identity is thickly coated. There is an emotive tone within "me" that still feels thick but "I" know it is thinner than it was a month ago. At first, "I" was the type of person that wanted to get enlightenment and AF done fast, at a record speed, so that "I" may live in peace and harmony and in a paradise but more and more this short cut idea seems impractical. "I" am beginning to understand what Vinetto means when she keeps saying "my aim is to whittle away at my social-instinctual identity so as to facilitate ‘my’ extinction, permanently." I thought I could just get the whole thing to disappear but the instinctual identity seems to thin by layers at a time so to speak, where it gets incrementally thinner than it used to be but still is largely inhibiting "my" enjoyment of the actual. "I" am going to whittle the instinctual identity piece by piece and eventually it will be gone but "I" can't force it evaporate just like that. The identity is genetic and programmed into my brain. It has layers, It needs to be stripped piece by piece.

Today, I had two great realizations.

1. A resentment to the present moment seems to almost always be in action. This resentment, in me, can be hidden multiple ways but when investigated is apparent. Instinctual passions arise like fear and aggression because "I" resent the present moment, I resent what is currently happening as "I" want to be doing other things or it is a threat to "my" survival. Even though, I can be fairly happy and harmless, when events happen out of my control or "I" am surrounded by other people/have responsibilites, there seems to always be a level of resentment in its various forms. My next goal, so to speak, is to whittle away all resentment from any and all situations.

2. There is an internal clock ticking much of my life that intuits action. I am controlled by this internal clock because it intuits what I should or should not be doing. I must whittle away this internal false clock pushing me to be unsatisfied.

I feel if I whittle away these two major hindrances, it will be much easier for me to be happy and harmless 24/7. This is my new pursuit, my new intent added to happy and harmless.

Maybe its better to focus on certain "feelings" one knows to be particularly obtrusive, whittle it away, and then go onto to the next upcoming issue. I definitely have a ton of desires for romance, success, etc. but whittling away desire, right now, seems tougher and less apparent than whittling resentment and the internal clock so "I" won't be obsessed with that just yet.

HI Adam -
I am with you on the whittle away business. People who have hit the permanent condition of no-self/anatta/AF seem to have had a fair amount of cushion time/practice in approaching that intention.

I first heard the expression of "resentment of being here" in the Hurricane Ranch talks last summer. Tarin used it, and I sat up alert to that comment. Since then, I've learned that it resonates with other people.

The topography of an increasingly equanimous self is smoother, less personal/more broad-based, but, in my recent experience, still has plenty of material to be acknowledged in order to evaporate. I was reading Nick's Middle Path Questions last night, and considered how often "I" drifts from here. I went back into the abidharma, lam rim chenmo, and Daniel's MCTB (most accessible) on equanimity and just saw again that there are loads of times that mental tendencies reappear and have to be acknowledged regardless of how lower in profile tendencies seem to be getting (Ian And brings this up in Nick's threads).

CCC's post on physical attention also reminded me of so many opportunities for recognition. Practices I've done, but apparently haven't considered in a while. I typically do not do explicit noting practices (including HAIETMOBA), because it can reinforce for me a self-as-center aspect (e.g., aviation control tower). To your earlier point about a tricky aspect of self interfering with the effort, I would say that for me, "I" am constantly behind the curve of the increasingly subtle experiences - it seems to take several days to recognize and get familiar with a more subtle sensation before I can then see it and it wanes. So, some form of more alert recognition seems relevant if not stated noting.

And the gross tendencies are still there, just much easier to see and, more often than not, there is little expression for them. Yet, last night, someone tinkered with one of my expensive tools and I snipped: saw this convoluted emotion coming, felt the displeasing aspects of hostility, and let it rip anyway...the physical feeling had the sensation of something that was detached, but motion-sick, ridiculous/needless. As a visible I am pulling up here, now, it was as if I threw a pot of stew into a closet of tidy, cloths - needless and caused extra work.

Hi Beoman,

In MN 139 the translation from the link reads that even bowls by different names are known among their users as The Bowl: "By whatever name it is known in that and other state, it is taken as the highest truth and all else is not the truth. "

Two ideas were in my mind triggered by reading the AF site: any firm idea of reality is fallible (derives from subjective views) and any firm expression of an idea of reality is fallible (words say words, words can approximate sensation, but are not sensation, but for the voice and sometimes with various tensions in the head). Sometimes I find Richard's/my own/others' ideas fallible and other times I just find the words failing.