Questions to AF people

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Shashank Dixit, modified 9 Years ago.

Questions to AF people

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Hello there

It would be great if all the AF people who are reading this can chime in and give answers. This will help clear a lot of things.

1. Do you *only* see and hear things at the sense organ now ?

2. Are you inclined to listen to music ? If yes , what is it that you like about it. I do know Richard's take on music and art but I was wondering if its the same with other AF people too.

3. What are your normal day to day thoughts apart from those that require duty to be performed ? Do you think about anything from the past - good or bad events ?

4. For fellowship regard , would you be inclined to give away money for charity or would you investigate facts about the recipients validity ?

5. Do you think it is sensible to have a partner around you when you grow old( or any other time) because a medical emergency can strike ?

Pfew , I dunno how I'll progress w/o the Dho !

Thanks ,

Shashank
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tarin greco, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:

It would be great if all the AF people who are reading this can chime in and give answers. This will help clear a lot of things.

what, in the context of your practice of the actualism method, will an actually free person answering the questions you have posed here 'help clear'?

tarin
katy s, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Tarin and Shashank -

shashank:
1. Do you *only* see and hear things at the sense organ now ?


tarin
what, in the context of your practice of the actualism method, will an actually free person answering the questions you have posed here 'help clear'?


tarin, do you remember what seeing was like before your freedom into actuality, while you were still aiming for freedom of self?

Senses have been a useful place for me to see self. For example, there is an unsubstantiated feeling that seeing is happening somewhere in the middle of my head.

Yet, factually, the sensations of sight may only be perceived at the eyes ( because where sight is neurotransmitted in the brain cannot be felt).

Thus, "seeing somewhere in the middle of my head" is a reflection of self's ownership of a physical attribute, a false ownership by a mirage owner.

Therefore, I have focused on sight "at the eyes". This seeing is akin to seeing a three dimensional movie, but without the distance/dissociation of watching a movie. This sight-at-the-eyes reminds me of being a kid and laying in the grass looking at the sky, trees, structures from the ground up with no expectation/no narrative. I cannot describe how it feels at the moment (perhaps "very very open") and stay away from proxy words like "wonderful", because I only have such a feeling afterwards (like "that was nice"). (Note: I do not make terrible images the object of my sight, yet know that I would be "very closed" to such images).

My breathing also seems "owned by" a middle-of-the-headness/self/awareness. Perhaps this is because breathing meditation has been a long-time enjoyment; being fluent in "knowing" whence comes and goes breathing causes a knower's presence (aka self, awareness, false middle-of-the-headness). Like a superfluous "middle man" in a transaction.

I trust that this self/awareness will evaporate in time. It loses "value" after each abeyance moment ("very very open"), because abeyance "rewards" being with removal of unrelated/selfish/chatty narratives.

So, I ask you if you had to "game the system" a little like i am now doing, to crack up some of the self that has formed its (ultimately unsubstantiated) presence around fundamental physical attributes.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
This seeing is akin to seeing a three dimensional movie, but without the distance/dissociation of watching a movie. This sight-at-the-eyes reminds me of being a kid and laying in the grass looking at the sky, trees, structures from the ground up with no expectation/no narrative


Yes , Katy..this has been my identical experience so far too. Seeing happens at the eye without a sense of distance with the seen.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
tarin greco:
Shashank Dixit:

It would be great if all the AF people who are reading this can chime in and give answers. This will help clear a lot of things.

what, in the context of your practice of the actualism method, will an actually free person answering the questions you have posed here 'help clear'?

tarin


The basic reason for asking these questions is to get clues/hints so as to incline my practise in a certain way that can lead to AF. I think it may help others also.

Ok here is why I specifically asked these questions :-

>> 1. Do you *only* see and hear things at the sense organ now ?

I ask this because the normal viewing and hearing (when not in a PCE) is very different than seeing/hearing while in a PCE. So I was wondering if seeing/hearing as an AF is always at the sense organ.

>> 2. Are you inclined to listen to music ? If yes , what is it that you like about it. I do know Richard's take on music and art but I was wondering if its the same with other AF people too.

Many a times when I hear music , I do enjoy it and I'm unable to see how it is affectively effecting me , yet when I hear
Richard's take on music , I think I'm missing something.

>> 3. What are your normal day to day thoughts apart from those that require duty to be performed ? Do you think about anything from the past - good or bad events ?

I cannot imagine living without thoughts from the past. Does no thought from the past ever arise randomly ?

>> 4. For fellowship regard , would you be inclined to give away money for charity or would you investigate facts about the recipients validity ?

This is because of an event that happened yesterday and made me really confused. I was coming out of a shop when all of a sudden a lady entered the shop and started asking me money for charity. I refused and rushed out of the shop but when I came out, I started wondering if I should have given money (knowing that I should have fellowship regard) but what if it wasn't a genuine charity ?

>> 5. Do you think it is sensible to have a partner around you when you grow old( or any other time) because a medical emergency can strike ?

Well this is a real concern and I wonder if anyone of you had this and how you overcame it. I can live without love or a partner but I am finding it silly not to have someone around in case of an emergency strikes , especially more so when old.

Thanks
Shashank
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tarin greco, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
Shashank Dixit:
tarin greco:
Shashank Dixit:

It would be great if all the AF people who are reading this can chime in and give answers. This will help clear a lot of things.

what, in the context of your practice of the actualism method, will an actually free person answering the questions you have posed here 'help clear'?

tarin


The basic reason for asking these questions is to get clues/hints so as to incline my practise in a certain way that can lead to AF. I think it may help others also.

Ok here is why I specifically asked these questions :-

>> 1. Do you *only* see and hear things at the sense organ now ?

I ask this because the normal viewing and hearing (when not in a PCE) is very different than seeing/hearing while in a PCE. So I was wondering if seeing/hearing as an AF is always at the sense organ.

for me, seeing occurs at the eye only, and hearing at the ear only.

now, how does my having answered that i see at the eye only (as it is the eye that actually sees) and hear at the ear only (as it is the ear that actually hears) give you clues/hints so as to incline your practice in a certain way that can lead to an actual freedom?


Shashank Dixit:

>> 2. Are you inclined to listen to music ? If yes , what is it that you like about it. I do know Richard's take on music and art but I was wondering if its the same with other AF people too.

Many a times when I hear music , I do enjoy it and I'm unable to see how it is affectively effecting me , yet when I hear
Richard's take on music , I think I'm missing something.

no, i am not inclined to listen to music, though i can enjoy it when i hear it.

more to the point, however: as you are unable to see how something is (affectively) affecting you (in an undesirable way), and you have no evidence that it is even affecting you at all, then your concern with richard's take, or my take, on music 'sounds like' worry.

how does fixating on what richard's, or my, take on music is do anything to address the cause of that worry (which is what practising the actualism method would address)?


Shashank Dixit:

>> 3. What are your normal day to day thoughts apart from those that require duty to be performed ? Do you think about anything from the past - good or bad events ?

my normal day to day thoughts are directly related to things in my immediate environment, which occasionally trigger memories of the past (often reminders to do this or that).

Shashank Dixit:

I cannot imagine living without thoughts from the past. Does no thought from the past ever arise randomly ?

rarely. but how does whether or not you can or cannot imagine living without thoughts from the past have anything to do with your practice of the actualism method?


Shashank Dixit:

>> 4. For fellowship regard , would you be inclined to give away money for charity or would you investigate facts about the recipients validity ?

This is because of an event that happened yesterday and made me really confused. I was coming out of a shop when all of a sudden a lady entered the shop and started asking me money for charity. I refused and rushed out of the shop but when I came out, I started wondering if I should have given money (knowing that I should have fellowship regard) but what if it wasn't a genuine charity ?

as what you appear to be addressing here is the matter of how to respond 'correctly' to charity solicitations, then it seems it would be far more fruitful to your practice of the actualism method were you to examine the feelings you felt in the situation (thereby taking responsibility for your conflict and uncertainty) than to question what an actually free person would do in a similar situation (thereby shifting attention away from your conflict and uncertainty).

in any case, i am not generally inclined to give money to people soliciting donations for charity, though i have occasionally done so as i have seen appropriate (determined on a case-by-case basis).


Shashank Dixit:

>> 5. Do you think it is sensible to have a partner around you when you grow old( or any other time) because a medical emergency can strike ?

Well this is a real concern and I wonder if anyone of you had this and how you overcame it. I can live without love or a partner but I am finding it silly not to have someone around in case of an emergency strikes , especially more so when old.

the matter has never been a concern for me. if a life-threatening medical emergency strikes and there is no one around to help me, i will die.

...but what does this have to do with your practice of the actualism method?

tarin
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Shashank Dixit, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Questions to AF people

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Thank you for the answers Tarin.

now, how does my having answered that i see at the eye only (as it is the eye that actually sees) and hear at the ear only (as it is the ear that actually hears) give you clues/hints so as to incline your practice in a certain way that can lead to an actual freedom?


Now having known that this is the case , I am planning to focus directly on this aspect of a PCE and try to 'cultivate' it. Since I know now that this is the case with you as an AF person , I see it safer to 'cultivate' it as a small experiment.

more to the point, however: as you are unable to see how something is (affectively) affecting you (in an undesirable way), and you have no evidence that it is even affecting you at all, then your concern with richard's take, or my take, on music 'sounds like' worry.

how does fixating on what richard's, or my, take on music is do anything to address the cause of that worry (which is what practising the actualism method would address)?


Indeed , it has been a matter of worry for me and one of my friend to whom I introduced AF recently. I am finding several kinds of music that I hear 1). the passionate songs - these can be very easily seen to affect me and I am not concerned with these because I can see and examine them 2). the subtle melodious tunes - like for instance some ethereal sounding instrument...they dont tug my heart at all and they don't play in the head afterwards either - these are just pure sensate experiences then ? It is this second category that I was wondering about. I'm sorry I should have elaborated earlier.

rarely. but how does whether or not you can or cannot imagine living without thoughts from the past have anything to do with your practice of the actualism method?


This has to do with my own concern at not knowing how the mind will behave as an AF person. Its nothing but a fear of the unknown - yet another thing to look into.

as what you appear to be addressing here is the matter of how to respond 'correctly' to charity solicitations, then it seems it would be far more fruitful to your practice of the actualism method were you to examine the feelings you felt in the situation (thereby taking responsibility for your conflict and uncertainty) than to question what an actually free person would do in a similar situation (thereby shifting attention away from your conflict and uncertainty).


I did examine the conflict that arose - it is rooted in a sense of moral responsibility towards the society. Thanks , I guess I answered again - it is again a fear to examine.

the matter has never been a concern for me. if a life-threatening medical emergency strikes and there is no one around to help me, i will die.

...but what does this have to do with your practice of the actualism method?


well , I sometimes get confused as to how to draw the line with the silly/sensible approach that Actualism uses..Is saving one's life silly ? No. Does having someone as a life-partner increases the chances of saving one's life in an emergency ? It appears so. Thus, answering such type of questions wrt silly/sensible approach can lead to a conflict.

I am seeing that most of my concerns are mostly related to the practicalities of life. I think that an AF person might
have faced similar problems and must be knowing ways to tackle them.

Thank you so much again.

Regards
Shashank