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Jhana Question (Shaking)

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Jhana Question (Shaking)
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12/1/19 6:22 PM
Hi, new here. Have a quick question about Jhana practice that I was hoping to get anwered by an experienced practicioner. 

Quick backgrounf info: I've practiced Jhana for years. When I was 18 discovered access concentration without knowing what it was, asked monk at local temple about it, he didn't speak english very well so he burned a copy of the Access to Insight website and gave it to me. I then discovered Jhana. I practiced on and off and about 6 years later I hit the 8th Jhana, and then I stopped for a long time.

Something I never see discussed however... When I enter into the state I am actually shaking. Am I not suppose to be doing that? Several months back I got the sense, for a moment, that I could enter Jhana without moving like I normally do, but it required a lot more concentration than is normal for me to enter into the state, and it also seemed much more "powerful/all-encompassing".

When I do it, it can get incredibly intense, and it feels amazing. When the state is at its strongest, I will breifly laspe into a state of "not being there", but its only for a fraction of a second at a time. It seems to me this state would qualify as genuine Dhyana. But since I've never been able to sustain it for more than a moment at a time I'm questioning whether I've been approaching it incorrectly this entire time. 

Can anyone confirm or deny this for me? Thank you emoticon

RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/1/19 10:13 PM as a reply to Andy.
Andy:
Hi, new here. Have a quick question about Jhana practice that I was hoping to get anwered by an experienced practicioner. 

Quick backgrounf info: I've practiced Jhana for years. When I was 18 discovered access concentration without knowing what it was, asked monk at local temple about it, he didn't speak english very well so he burned a copy of the Access to Insight website and gave it to me. I then discovered Jhana. I practiced on and off and about 6 years later I hit the 8th Jhana, and then I stopped for a long time.

Something I never see discussed however... When I enter into the state I am actually shaking. Am I not suppose to be doing that? Several months back I got the sense, for a moment, that I could enter Jhana without moving like I normally do, but it required a lot more concentration than is normal for me to enter into the state, and it also seemed much more "powerful/all-encompassing".

When I do it, it can get incredibly intense, and it feels amazing. When the state is at its strongest, I will breifly laspe into a state of "not being there", but its only for a fraction of a second at a time. It seems to me this state would qualify as genuine Dhyana. But since I've never been able to sustain it for more than a moment at a time I'm questioning whether I've been approaching it incorrectly this entire time. 

Can anyone confirm or deny this for me? Thank you emoticon


Is it a pleasurable rapturous shaking??

RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/2/19 9:58 AM as a reply to Andy.
If it's anything like the states I used to get into before I started my daily practice, I would say that the shaking is caused by a tension based on the conflict between parts of you completely willing to let go of self and parts of you holding on tightly. It can feel extatic, and the shaking is piti in combination with clinging. It feels like being overpowered by and surrendering to a stronger force, but it is more like an inner conflict and a cheater's way that in the long run will hold you back if you stick with it. Try to find the subtle tensions triggering the seizures. Try to see the dukkha in the euphoria. Jhanas are supposed to be peaceful, not like vulcano eruptions. You have it in you to get there without forcing it. I don't know if it helps to think that it's not happening to you, but just happening. You don't need to stay in the center of it. You don't need to be the vessel for it. You can't contain it. That's just an illusion. There are no walls to it, hence it has no need to force its way through anything. Nothing blocks the way. There is nothing there to shake. 

RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/2/19 1:15 PM as a reply to Matthew Jon Rousseau.
Matthew Jon Rousseau:
Is it a pleasurable rapturous shaking??

Yes it's incredibly pleasurable...and the 'rapturous shaking' continues into the formless Jhanas after the pleasure factor drops off.

RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/2/19 1:20 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
If it's anything like the states I used to get into before I started my daily practice, I would say that the shaking is caused by a tension based on the conflict between parts of you completely willing to let go of self and parts of you holding on tightly. It can feel extatic, and the shaking is piti in combination with clinging. It feels like being overpowered by and surrendering to a stronger force, but it is more like an inner conflict and a cheater's way that in the long run will hold you back if you stick with it. Try to find the subtle tensions triggering the seizures. Try to see the dukkha in the euphoria. Jhanas are supposed to be peaceful, not like vulcano eruptions. You have it in you to get there without forcing it. I don't know if it helps to think that it's not happening to you, but just happening. You don't need to stay in the center of it. You don't need to be the vessel for it. You can't contain it. That's just an illusion. There are no walls to it, hence it has no need to force its way through anything. Nothing blocks the way. There is nothing there to shake. 

I'll try that, thank you. I think you're right in that it's kind of like cheating. I just found an easy way to elicit these states. Going back to basics and leanring to enter Jhana in a more meditative and calm mode will probably enhance my mileage quite a bit.

RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/3/19 9:22 PM as a reply to Andy.
If the  shaking and rapture are continuing up to the formless jhanas you are not actually I'm the formless  jhanas . I think your in 1st khana with overexagerated  piti.(rapture)  I was told this is  called gross piti.  It's not a bad sign  but try to dial it down a little so sukka is the main feeling .thus  reaching  2nd jhana.     If someone k ow more than me please correct me.   But I always read rapture should subside in first  jhana replaced by sukka in second  than equanimity in 3rd.



RE: Jhana Question (Shaking)
Answer
12/3/19 10:41 PM as a reply to Matthew Jon Rousseau.
Matthew Jon Rousseau:
If the  shaking and rapture are continuing up to the formless jhanas you are not actually I'm the formless  jhanas . I think your in 1st khana with overexagerated  piti.(rapture)  I was told this is  called gross piti.  It's not a bad sign  but try to dial it down a little so sukka is the main feeling .thus  reaching  2nd jhana.     If someone k ow more than me please correct me.   But I always read rapture should subside in first  jhana replaced by sukka in second  than equanimity in 3rd.



The term translated as "rapture" as described by Buddha is a kind of frenetic ecstasy mixed with angst. And yes it does drop off, and then you're left with smooth equanimty. The level of intensity plus the exactly matching descriptions of the Jhanas would make it seem very unlikely I'm not accessing the Jhanas. The issue, I think, is that you can use any type of initial phsycal pleasure to catalyze entering into Jhana, and I've always kind of just 'gyrated' to acheive that. I think Linda's assesment is actually spot on. I am clinging to the euphoria but its a faulty foundation.