Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 1:28 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Matthew 1/31/20 11:44 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 2/1/20 4:21 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 7:20 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 7:24 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 7:36 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 7:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 8:00 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Olivier S 1/31/20 1:03 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 2/1/20 6:16 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Olivier S 2/1/20 10:50 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 2/4/20 4:59 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 7:15 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 7:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 2:20 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 8:53 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 9:11 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 9:56 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 10:17 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 10:44 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 10:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 11:13 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 11:18 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 11:25 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 11:45 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 12:19 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 1:04 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 1:20 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 1:49 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 4:11 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 4:21 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 2:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 3:16 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:25 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 2:40 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 2:50 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 3:01 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 3:09 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 3:33 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Steph S 4/13/20 4:30 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 4:30 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 6:16 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/13/20 3:36 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 4:02 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 6:02 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 6:33 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 6:38 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 6:40 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 4:33 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 4:50 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 5:11 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 5:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. T 4/15/20 7:09 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 7:23 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/15/20 7:43 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 4:36 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 5:07 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 6:49 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 1:51 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 2:52 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 6:40 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 6:43 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 6:44 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 6:50 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 6:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 7:03 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 7:08 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 2:25 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 8:24 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 8:58 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 11:23 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 12:07 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 12:42 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 1:43 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 2:11 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:40 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 3:51 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 1:55 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:54 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 4:59 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 5:15 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 12:55 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 2:22 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/14/20 3:03 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 3:12 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 3:59 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/14/20 1:53 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 7:18 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/14/20 7:11 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 7:40 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/14/20 7:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 7:57 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/14/20 7:01 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 7:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 2:24 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 9:05 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 9:12 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/13/20 9:43 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/13/20 10:05 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Smiling Stone 4/14/20 5:14 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:28 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 4:02 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 5:38 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 9:29 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 4:32 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 4:41 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 5:08 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 5:47 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/15/20 6:37 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 7:45 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/15/20 7:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 7:58 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/15/20 8:00 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 8:08 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 1:42 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 8:06 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 8:37 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 2:34 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 7:47 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 8:10 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 8:30 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. T 4/15/20 8:52 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 5:29 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Smiling Stone 4/15/20 8:41 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 2:25 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:07 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 3:10 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Smiling Stone 4/15/20 3:26 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:41 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Siavash ' 4/15/20 3:33 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:42 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 3:45 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Siavash ' 4/15/20 3:52 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 3:58 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/15/20 3:46 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 4:21 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/14/20 4:41 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/14/20 5:11 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/15/20 7:07 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 10:05 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/15/20 11:53 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 12:22 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 9:09 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 10:51 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 12:49 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/15/20 2:00 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 2:48 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 11:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 4:07 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 5:13 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 6:18 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/15/20 5:16 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 5:43 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/15/20 6:30 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/15/20 7:18 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 1:11 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 1:38 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 3:20 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 3:09 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 3:34 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 4:55 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 2:58 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 5:41 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 6:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 6:26 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/16/20 6:35 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. T 4/16/20 7:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/16/20 9:01 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. T 4/16/20 3:40 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 4:41 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/16/20 6:46 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/16/20 7:32 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 7:59 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 6:50 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 7:35 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 8:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 9:35 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 10:41 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Steph S 4/16/20 11:33 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 1:42 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 2:46 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 3:11 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 4:52 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 5:00 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/16/20 5:28 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 6:09 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/16/20 7:56 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 3:22 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/16/20 5:54 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 4:38 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/16/20 5:23 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/16/20 5:51 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 12:28 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 2:25 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 2:27 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 12:58 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 1:05 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 2:18 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. T 4/17/20 6:20 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 2:36 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Siavash ' 4/17/20 11:20 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 2:53 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 3:30 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 3:01 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 3:44 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 4:07 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 5:15 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/17/20 5:31 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 5:59 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 5:43 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Chris M 4/17/20 6:00 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:02 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 3:42 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 4:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 7:21 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 7:29 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/17/20 11:33 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 2:54 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/18/20 3:40 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 4:44 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/18/20 5:03 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 5:28 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/18/20 6:23 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 7:38 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. George S 4/18/20 7:48 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 8:06 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 8:35 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 8:49 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 9:08 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 9:21 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 9:43 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 10:17 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 10:32 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 10:50 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Tim Farrington 4/17/20 11:01 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Mike Smirnoff 4/17/20 11:58 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Papa Che Dusko 4/18/20 2:38 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 11:54 PM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Mike Smirnoff 4/18/20 12:27 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/18/20 3:22 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Mike Smirnoff 4/18/20 3:36 AM
RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/18/20 3:41 AM
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 1:28 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 1/30/20 6:53 AM

Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts

Live in the nowhere that you came from, even though you have an address here.

Rumi, in Coleman Barks's rendering


edit, 4/15.2020

Welcome to the Bar of Last Resort. If you have found your way here by accident, my advice is to run for the exit door, where you will be given a complimentary beverage of your choice for the wisdom of Not Starting. 

If you have unfortunately Started, for whatever misguided reasons, then better by far to finish, and drinks are on the house until all sentient beings are saved, because as the obviously slowest sentient boat afloat, i am doomed to be the last one out of this bar, and will be tending bar at various points, or at least taking the occasional dishwashing and janitorial shifts throughout, and will be available to serve drinks at any time if i can figure out how to pour them into a receptable that doesn't leak too much, and also not poison the person through unskillful means. I personally recommend getting someone else to make your drinks, as any patron of the Bar of Last Resort is cleared to bartend, merely by being in the place, and a number of these people pour with a very slow four-count, if you know what i mean, and i think you do, wink-wink. If you don't know what i mean, i mean that some of the drinks these fuckers pour . . . well, let's just say a little dab will do ya.

Our present primary bartender is Ludwig Wittgenstein, so take your language games directly to him. 

If you have come here from a purely morbid or personally-skin-in-the-game interest in spiritual carnage and meditation-related difficulties, the free drinks are two for one.

If you have been invited here, that was irresponsible on my part, and I apologize. Have a drink. All exit doors remain wide open at all times, by order of the Fire Marshall.

If you have come here because we are in a giant fight on another thread and i have asked you to take it outside, please identify yourself to the doorman as you enter. He or she will give you as many free drinks as you are willing to drink before sending you out into the alley behind the bar, where i will continue to do my best to tear you a new asshole.

This is also my Practice Log, from 4/13/20--- at some point, i started trying to distinctly indicate practice log entries with a first line heading.

For those interested in the present Ongoing Remedial Sesshin For Pre-Vipassana noting-practice for pre-beginners, and Bonus Journal of a Descent into Manic Psychosis While Hoping to Flatten the Curve, it begins somewhere on 4/13/20 below.

If you're here, really, for any reason at all, truly, God help you.

Namaste,
tim



edit, 4/13/20
As I have roamed the playground of DhO since my latest return to being active here, i have cme to appreciate that people's practice logs are invaluable in so many ways, and are invariably a truly generous gift to the community of this sangha. So i am re-purposing this post as my own practice log.

It seems perfect to me that it is embedded in the Dark Night category of DhO, because so much of my learning curve (just corrected a funny typo here: "my learning curse," lol, was tempted to leave it in (sic)) has come in the dukha nanas territory, and John of the Cross and Daniel Ingram's MCBT (1 and 2, going back to 2011) have been my best teachers and greatest helps. In that same vein, Rumi said, "Live in the nowhere that you can from, even though you have an address here." I think the practice logs are as close as the sangha of people living in the various linguistic variations on the nowhere we came from have on DhO to a local address, with the implicit invitation to welcome visitors, and, in my case, as a good red herring for cops arriving to serve warrants. So welcome to this thread, and to tell you the truth, Officer, it seems possible to me that some people just don't get my humor.

Everything below may thus be considered both in the light of an highly interested practioner interested in anything beyond the Dark Night, and also as my basic practice log, beginning in January of 2020, from this day forward, forever and ever, worlds without end, amen.


January, 2020


Please forgive what must look like an excessively long and self-indulgent message here. I was looking for a balance between adequate context and succinctness, and seem to have erred on the side of context. For those who find their compassion and patience overtaxed at any point, you might be able to just skip right to the last paragraph for my actual request at its most succinct.

I first encountered DhO in 2011, after finding Daniel’s MCTB (first edition, then) and being astonished, energized, and inspired by its lucidity, precision, and no-bullshit brilliance. I knew he was the real deal, in a vanishingly rare way, and the book took its place on my crucial shelf with the works of John of the Cross and Bernadette Roberts, both Catholic contemplatives whose dark night terminology and spiritual maps are in theistic language of course (though Roberts goes well beyond John X to what she calls “No-Self,” and has inspired no end of handwringing among a certain set of modern day heresy-watchers). I had actually started out with Buddhism in my teens, and then Siddha Yoga, the Muktananda lineage, and it was in a Siddha Yoga kundalini-oriented ashram that I first found my way to John X, whose phenomenology of the dark night was the only thing that rang true to me for a very long time, no matter how many names God had. The Mushroom Factor in those days was even higher than it is now, and warning labels about inevitable horrors don’t help fill the seminar seats, of course. It is so wonderful how frankly Daniel addresses the genuine dangers of the night side of the path, and does nothing to minimize the real hazards.

Anyway, I am a fairly classic Chronic Dark Night Yogi. I have been a novelist for my working adult life, weaving my prayer practice with that, and tended to basically cycle through the night to equanimity, and then do what in retrospect looks to me like a kind of judo pivot move to use whatever moved at that point to reinvest the energy in whatever I was trying to write. That was attainment enough for me, for a long time, as a miserable sonofabitch working class slob writer (who also happened to be bipolar, which is its own educational path). I have been blessed by my karmic chickens coming home to roost in recent years, a series of perfect storms in all my circumstances that drove me back to the most fundamental practice, with a desire for liberation arising so purely in the extremes that I could even say “Fuck that art shit” at the crucial moments, and just stick with meditation. So my current practice is about three hours a day, in three sits, of a kind of body-breath-word technique, saturated with the Three Characteristics (transience and suffering are straightforward, even for an apophatic theist, and no-self comes in attentive practice, as your realize the body and breath and mind are doing all the work on their own).

Again, please forgive the protracted intro. My point is that I was recently inspired to re-order MCTB because I was thinking I was in something like equanimity. (The second edition is significantly better than the already-wonderful and useful first, like well-aging wine, and thank you Daniel for taking that trouble.) It started dawning with the realization that what I often think of as the night’s hellish burning is no longer painful, at some point during meditation. I follow sensations as they arise, and it is clearly the body that has “done” this quieting; the best I can do is not try too hard to “help.” It is like a master artisan doing a craft that requires tremendous experience, skill, precision, finesse, with a four-year-old sitting on her lap, “helping.” That the artisan can get it done anyway is astonishing and awesome in itself. But somehow it happens, and I am at the hatha yogic balance in the meditation asana, feeling the crux but without the sharpness of actual pain at the edge. If I think, as the four-year-old, that I have done this, I can try to continue “doing” it with an inevitably heavy hand, and begin to hurt again. If I think I have done it by following the movement of the breath, which is synced-up now, I seize up there too, stomping along behind with the lead-footed tread of self-control. So the first necessity here is the genuine realistic humility of letting the body and breath do this precision operation in the full and clear knowledge that it is just not mine to do. I cannot express the sense of simple relief, after hell: imagine years spent in a flame that suddenly doesn’t hurt. Gratitude is very frequent here, especially after prolonged pain and mental and emotional distress; and it is possible to cultivate some bliss here, though that takes work, and the bliss is empty enough to a dark-night-adjusted vision that it is relatively easy to let go of it and continue in prayer. (“Fuck that bliss shit.”)

It is like surfing along the edge of the pain, in its way: body and breath know precisely where the threshold is, and, impossibly, stay just ahead of it. The self can hurt, at this point, magnifying sensation as an act of will, just to feel oriented; or it can let this impossible thing the breath and body are doing continue, out of its control, somehow staying “ahead of” the pain without really understanding the cues that are keeping the process on track. It is surprisingly, revealingly hard to not just go to experiencing the pain, for the reliable familiarity of that feedback, and it takes real discipline to simply note the highly mobile, incalculably dynamic field of recurrent subtle sensation that is not pain here.

It is not a “glimpse,” it is a sustainable condition, in prayer, at least. What glimpses there are come with the occasional realization that if the state had content and context, something “to do,” (a mission from God: the Blues Brothers saying, Thy will be done), then . . . it would be doable. There is an intuition in it of a viable way to live, if only blah blah blah. But it is entirely without any specifics except what it takes to simply stay with it, body, breath, and word in sync and renewing. Spacing out just seems to deepen it, when I realize and return: breath and body are still there, often quieter than before if the return is skillful, and the feedback just gets subtler, often changing qualitatively, even to purely visual with no tactile dimension apparent, like lightning without thunder, though more usually it is like a number of distinct lightning flashes, and anticipating thunder after each, but only one thunder discernible at last, and that distant, and the lightning is already several thunderless flashes ahead by then; and attention, tuning to that subtler signal, grows gentler, less lead-footed and heavy-handed, as it feels it can. It is a knack, of sorts, distinctly learnable, through an evolving array of “forms” and presentation, each susceptible to various metaphors right up until I take the metaphor as predictive or determinative and it seizes up and I let it go. There is often a sense of a field of sensation, much less localized, and the changes arise as subtler ripples propagating through the field, in a way that is slow enough to follow without any sense of urgency whatsoever. It is doable, all of it, even through transitions where it seems impossible to sustain amid a high-speed, high-tempo “demand” on the attention that I know perfectly well is impossible to sustain at such a crazy frequency, on sheer physical and concentrative grounds. And yet if I stick with it all the way through into having no idea how, it continues to be doable. But all it seems to do is itself.

So two questions, I guess, as the desperate guy at the end of his rope that I am: 1) does this ring true as equanimity; and 2) (knowing that the answer in any case is probably “Stick with the practice”) any helpful advice? In all realism, I would have to say that I have not achieved stream entry in any form that I can recognize in retrospect, when all is said and done. I have cycled through everything else up to this stage of insight from what seems like every direction and angle, and the states are replicable in the simplest sense. But I have no traction whatsoever on the good stuff. So this is the most remedial possible equanimity prior to stream entry, prior to first path, is my best guess. Help?
 
thank you for your patience, attention, and kindness, Tim F.
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Matthew, modified 4 Years ago at 1/31/20 11:44 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 1/31/20 11:33 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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1) Yes, sounds like a dead ringer as far as my understanding goes, FWIW.

2) I dunno about helpful, but I can try to offer some advice: It seems like you already understand the crucial point but then try to act as though it isn't true. That crucial point is that the key, hallmark feature of equanimity-nana is the sense that experience is just doing itself, without needing one sensation to privilege itself as "me" vs others which are "not-me." You seem to be arriving at this understanding already through experience.

The problem is that you aren't believing it. You take this premise and then say "...but really, though, what can I do to make it so that there's nothing to do?" Nope. If you try to "do" equanimity then how equanimous is it really? So the first piece of advice is, try not to see this as some goal you have to attain in the future as a reward for good practice. Rather, try to see this as a way of relating to experience, here, now, as the relief of not-doing rather than as another thing to do. If you must make the doer focus on doing something, make it focus on riding the "wave" of automatic present-moment doing like a surfer. A surfer doesn't need to intellectualize once they've gotten on the wave, they just feel and respond and balance. Equanimity is getting on the wave.

In fact, if you can drop past, future and hypotheticals all at will (that is, snap out of the low-level constant rumination about those things), it can speed up the process of finding that wave to the point where equanimity comes more quickly, and you can go surfing. In a theistic context you can think of this as offering your limited human conceptions to God.
Tim Farrington, modified 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 4:21 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 4:21 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Matthew:

The problem is that you aren't believing it. You take this premise and then say "...but really, though, what can I do to make it so that there's nothing to do?" Nope. If you try to "do" equanimity then how equanimous is it really? So the first piece of advice is, try not to see this as some goal you have to attain in the future as a reward for good practice. Rather, try to see this as a way of relating to experience, here, now, as the relief of not-doing rather than as another thing to do. If you must make the doer focus on doing something, make it focus on riding the "wave" of automatic present-moment doing like a surfer. A surfer doesn't need to intellectualize once they've gotten on the wave, they just feel and respond and balance. Equanimity is getting on the wave.

In fact, if you can drop past, future and hypotheticals all at will (that is, snap out of the low-level constant rumination about those things), it can speed up the process of finding that wave to the point where equanimity comes more quickly, and you can go surfing. 

Thank you, Matthew. You're certainly right about the recurrent efforts to "do" EQ (surfer ending up in water frequently, dreaming about the perfect wave). And "low-level constant rumination on these things," check. Just posting this thread released a nifty tidal wave of rumination, to be honest. The good news is that falling off the board right now doesn't hurt, and I can tread water in my sleep. Bigger waves of rumination also require a much finer and gentler attention, I think. But the sets keep rolling in, and the weather is lovely. So thank you for the advice to enjoy the ride, even in that awkward surfing posture of frequent-head-up-ass.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:20 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:20 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Merci beaucoup for your early and generous interest in this thread, the road marker of my return for another active round here on DhO. I have repurposed the thread as my practice log (the heart of the Dark Night category seems a truly upscale and appropriate addess here for me, lol--- remember our Rumi, "Live in the nothingness that you came from, even though you have an address here"), and wanted to take the opportunity to thank you again for the gift of your friendship.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:24 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:24 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Well done, sir!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:36 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:30 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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well, i'd like to have a place where people can come to tear me a new asshole, amigo. I needed a place that was sort of the equivalent of asking someone to "take it outside," rather than fighting it out in every bar i get into trouble in, and sullying the threads there, mucking up the water for what should really be going on. There's nothing really going on here beyond the next iteration of the old 1-2-3, and talking about that, and having it be the bar of last resort, or the alley outside the bar of last resort, i guess.

So, welcome to that, sir. Would you like tea, or something stronger perhaps? Shargrol's whiskey is two-for-one today through happy hour. Beers are on me.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:46 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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So, welcome to that, sir. Would you like tea, or something stronger perhaps? Shargrol's whiskey is two-for-one today through happy hour. Beers are on me.

I have a soft spot for Hacker Pschorr weiss beer, but at this time of the morning, Tito's Bloody Marys. Hot and spicy with none of that fru fru shit in it.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 8:00 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 8:00 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Chris Marti:
So, welcome to that, sir. Would you like tea, or something stronger perhaps? Shargrol's whiskey is two-for-one today through happy hour. Beers are on me.

I have a soft spot for Hacker Pschorr weiss beer, but at this time of the morning, Tito's Bloody Marys. Hot and spicy with none of that fru fru shit in it.


Coming right up, hombre.

In the interest of full disclosure, and in all willingness to bow to the discernment of the jikitsu, and risk a yellow card at best, after I get said jikijits drunk enough to trust his judgment, I called Papa Che a name. He'll no doubt lodge his formal complaint soon, knowing what an [words deleted, per DhO protocols] he is.
Olivier S, modified 4 Years ago at 1/31/20 1:03 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 1/31/20 1:00 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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If I may add something, purely from my experience : now that you have "broken through" to that equanimity thing, it will probably deepen as you keep practicing, and start infusing your life. My advice (and I don't know if it's something you can control btw, but anyways...) would be to really tap into the profoundly balanced happiness that is starting to be available to you. You are sitting on a treasure of meaning and joy, seriously. At least, that has been my experience of equanimity. Don't be afraid to infuse your life with that... Enjoy what it can offer... After all this night time you deserve plenty of joy... I would say not to rush towards an ideal goal of entering the stream etc., but to really deepen and make the most of you current experience of fire that doesn't burn, that is a precious thing to have and it needs protection and care, right ?

In my experience, that is really the high point of this whole thing, better than SE if you ask me, because after that it means you're gonna press on. You can rest for a while now, gather your strengths, and when you're ready for new things it will move on - I would add to keep the practice, but you're gonna do that anyways, I think.

Just my two cents, I hope Shargrol answers you too as his advice is always great, and he seems to have a special understanding of how to navigate EQ...

And btw I enjoyed the "self-indulgent" writing ;)
Tim Farrington, modified 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 6:16 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 6:15 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Olivier:
If I may add something, purely from my experience : now that you have "broken through" to that equanimity thing, it will probably deepen as you keep practicing, and start infusing your life. My advice (and I don't know if it's something you can control btw, but anyways...) would be to really tap into the profoundly balanced happiness that is starting to be available to you. You are sitting on a treasure of meaning and joy, seriously. At least, that has been my experience of equanimity. Don't be afraid to infuse your life with that... Enjoy what it can offer... After all this night time you deserve plenty of joy... I would say not to rush towards an ideal goal of entering the stream etc., but to really deepen and make the most of you current experience of fire that doesn't burn, that is a precious thing to have and it needs protection and care, right ?

Olivier, merci beaucoup pour la gentillesse et la generosite de votre reponse chaleureuse et sage, mon ami. I feel such gratitude for this community, and for the sense of comrades on the path(s). I don't think I'm experiencing much profoundly balanced happiness (bless you), but you're right that there is a sense of the potential for that, certainly, which is itself a kind of feast for me at this point, and I am treasuring my teetering portions of superficially unstable happiness with great appreciation. There really is just a sort of awe right now, almost across the board in my daily life, at not being miserable. John of the Cross says, in The Living Flame of Love, speaking to the Flame itself, "Now that you are not oppressive." I get the wonder of that, with all my heart. Jeremiah, in Lamentations, says, "Remembering my affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall: my soul has them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me." That humility is pure gold, that's the treasure you mention that i'm sitting on. 

Just posting this thread was a very profound thing in its own right for me, and it has brought up a lot of ruminative stuff. Which is also not oppressive right now, lol. In actual practice, I find, to push the surfing metaphor maybe a bit farther than may really hold up, that I'm bobbing up and down a lot on the higher surf of ruminative waves, and it's all i can do to get down to simple technique and grab a particular wave and try to get up on the board. But it is surprisingly, astonishingly pleasant to bob out on the water on a sunny day in February (lol, i knew the surfing metaphor would crap out at some point), especially, again, after spending so much time underwater wondering which way was up and whether I was ever going to breathe again. (You should never have said you enjoyed the self-indulgent writing, mon ami, lol.)

Again, thank you.
Olivier S, modified 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 10:50 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 2/1/20 10:48 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Content que vous entriez dans une bonne phase, je vous souhaite de vous y établir durablement, et votre pratique porte des fruits qui demeurent. Canada j'imagine ?

To me it sounds like it will take any amount of time needed so that equanimity stabilizes, deepens and become more solid, less shaky, if you will, and in my view this is as much a heart opening thing, a trust that needs to blossom, which is not set back by circumstances (the sense of trust and acceptance which makes even fear and other mind states really ok), as it is dependent on consistent practice...  It's also about not clinging to the pleasantness, I think. Would you be ok if it wasn't pleasant ? If yes, that will be a sign of progress IMHO. It's really a form of phusis, of inclination and movement of the being towards maturation : "What was said to the rose that made it open, was said to me here in my chest."

But there doesn't need to be any pressure, things happen when they must, right ?

At some point it could become so equanimous that you forget that there ever were flames to begin with, and then some form of negligence could arise, pushing you to forget about practice and "ethics" and to "go back down" in a way. This has happened to me a few times I guess, and I reckon it's pretty common. So it's a balance...

But I would say that getting used to the sunny pleasantness of the still ocean, letting it happen on its own, trusting that it will not go away, because that's kind of what's gonna happen if you just let yourself be taken by the stronger pull of what you truly love, is important ^^

I tried surfing once and really disliked it. Why get agitated and get burnt eyes from the salt when you could sit in the warm sand and observe the myriad reflections of the waves with a smile on your face ???

It's a bit cliche, but for me, reading Rumi, or at least, Barks' rumi, usually brings this sense of lucid trust and quiet, disinterested awe you mention, which I associate with equanimity. Do you know this one ?


The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from the beyond.

Tim Farrington, modified 4 Years ago at 2/4/20 4:59 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 2/4/20 4:58 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Olivier, pas le Canada, juste le français au high school et une profonde appréciation précoce de Camus. Le mythe de Sisyphe était énorme pour moi, tôt et souvent. Il commence dans le pire des jhanas dukkha --- "Il n'y a qu'un problème philosophique vraiment sérieux: c'est le suicide" --- et se termine avec ce que je pensais être Equanimity mais maintenant le suspect est en fait le cycle fractal sans fin de chemin après chemin: «Il faut imaginer Sisyphe heureux».

I am presently finding myself grateful for the rock, grateful for the absurd practice of my mechanical little algorithm of technique. Truly, there is interest in every step, body and breath accomplishing the movement, gravity accomplishing the renewal and the next fractal iteration begins. I am a slave to an arbitrary method of endlessly accomplishing nothing! What’s not to love?

I love the Rumi, thank you for sharing it. You're right on, offering precisely the same hospitality to each guest seems key right now.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:15 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:15 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Olivier:
If I may add something, purely from my experience : now that you have "broken through" to that equanimity thing, it will probably deepen as you keep practicing, and start infusing your life. 

Olivier, merci beaucoup, as ever. I have repurposed/multipurposed this thread into my practice log, and replying to your great post here is the perfect door into where I am since January.

My advice (and I don't know if it's something you can control btw, but anyways...) would be to really tap into the profoundly balanced happiness that is starting to be available to you. You are sitting on a treasure of meaning and joy, seriously. At least, that has been my experience of equanimity. Don't be afraid to infuse your life with that... Enjoy what it can offer... After all this night time you deserve plenty of joy... I would say not to rush towards an ideal goal of entering the stream etc., but to really deepen and make the most of you current experience of fire that doesn't burn, that is a precious thing to have and it needs protection and care.

amen, mon frere.

In my experience, that is really the high point of this whole thing, better than SE if you ask me, because after that it means you're gonna press on. You can rest for a while now, gather your strengths, and when you're ready for new things it will move on -

This is where some degree of interesting, uh, perspective has come in for me in this latest set of approaches to and passes through EQ. I have realized that in my base practice vocabulary of John of the Cross/Bible-as-word-of-God, cradle-Roman-Catholic-evolved-into-realization-of-Christianity-as-a-schismatic-sect-of Judaism, and person willing to let Jesus' question in the Gospels, "Who do men say that I am?" remain unsatisfactorily answered in my personal case--- to make a long sentence longer: i think it is against my religion to go anywhere beyond the point where stream entry flows off into theravadan meanderings, circa EQ. In God terms, anything beyond that point can only be the delightedly extinguished soul joyously particpating to the best of its capacity in the perfect will of the all merciful God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus. That various Christian---and Jewish, and Islamic, for starters--- mystics and contemplatives have ventured into language that seems to suggest otherwise is, as i read it, a product of trying to somehow suggest a certain kind of intoxication to their brethren and sisters, God-intoxicated madness (think Rumi, here). Margreet Porete was burned at the stake in Paris in the early 14th century, for being crazy enough to insist on the complete annihilation of the soul in God, and I'm inclined to think she is cool as hell, though i'd i'd been around i would have advised her to shut the fuck up. But what she said.

so again: Olivier: that is really the high point of this whole thing, better than SE if you ask me.

It is the high point, i think for everyone, meaning every one; every "constructed self,"; everything beyond here is a degree of anatta, in every tradition, I think.

I would add to keep the practice, but you're gonna do that anyways, I think.


Amen. I've shot my way today, but I do intend to use this now as my practice log, so i would be delighted if you stayed tuned. And thank you for your beautiful kindness early on toward me; you and Matthew, it's enough to make me say vive la France.


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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:46 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:40 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Oh crap emoticon sorry but all this Rumi and Open The Heart stuff gives me heartburn emoticon 

Ingram totally nailed the EQ describtion in his book. He mentioned no Rumi, no Open The Heart but always, NOTE the mind states and body sensations. Like always and ONLY.

In my words;
cling not to the pleasant shift from Re-observation into early EQ (if you do, it will catapult you back into the shit hole you just came out of), panoramic awareness, all senses are already included, all feel is neutral-ish (its neutral but the minds habit is remembering that certain unpleasantness are now suddenly neutral, mind is not yet acoustom to this option), less efforting so to let all be there in a loose way, acceptance of it all and let it unfold, boredom at later stage (could come in a few days), acceptance of it and let it unfold ... Blip when you least expect it (could also come in a few days after the boredom with EQ or even suddenly or never if your horoscope is totally fucked).

EQ is a bit like fishing. You throw the hook into water and wait. Yes it can be boring but you still wait and just look. The fish might hook up but it might also refuse the bait. What can you do but sit and look and be bored with all that Status Quo-ness of it all. Acceptance yet again same as in DN.

Have a nice day and see you on the other side!


emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:20 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 7:50 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
Oh crap emoticon sorry 


You're either yanking my chain or insulting me by apologizing. emoticon since you said "crap," and since it's you, i will take it as both, wave/particle in nature. emoticon

but all this Rumi and Open The Heart stuff gives me heartburn

emoticon

Ingram totally nailed the EQ describtion in his book. He mentioned no Rumi, no Open The Heart but always, NOTE the mind states and body sensations. Like always and ONLY.



Papaji, my emoticon master, this thread being now the place where I can tell people to come if i think we should take it outside and not break any tables in whatever bar we're in, i can't tell you to come here. And i don't want to take it outside with you, my love, out of purely fucking laziness and drunken inertia. So we'll have to fight this out here at the bar, disturbing my equanimity profoundly, if that's okay with you. Chris will tell us when we've broken too many tables, and offended too many people, and scared too many others.

There is a sutra in the agnostic scriptures that holds the position that anything is allowed in the Bar of Last Resort. It has interesting parallels in other traditions. Augustine of Hippo said, "Love God, and do whatever the fuck you want." (Ama deum et fac quod vis, translation may vary with user.) This would be great, as i'd hate for us to end up getting caught fighting in the alley out back when all sentient beings are saved and they close the bar down. I mean, if all sentient beings are saved, and you and i are fighting, what does that make us? 

On the other other hand, the one touching the other hand, the point of sensative attention between two thumbs, Ni Nurta said to me recently, on the Bodhisattva sutra, "What about beings that are not sentient? If you start excluding beings to reduce their numbers you won't get far in this Bodhisattva business..." and i was forced to concede, "Okay, rocks are in. Although I have a sneaking suspicion about the sentience of rocks, actually. But name me a non-sentient being, and the tent's open to them." And then i fucking met Smiling Stone.

The endless waters of endless . . . aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! (panicked scream of last being, sentient, insentient, whatever, demonstrably unsaved, and de facto unsavable, nama-rup/nama-arupa, "tim".)


What was i saying? Oh yeah, fuck you Papa Che, and your raspberry eurotrash beret, and your guerilla upaya. emoticon

In my words; 

cling not to the pleasant shift from Re-observation into early EQ (if you do, it will catapult you back into the shit hole you just came out of), panoramic awareness, all senses are already included, all feel is neutral-ish (its neutral but the minds habit is remembering that certain unpleasantness are now suddenly neutral, mind is not yet acoustom to this option), less efforting so to let all be there in a loose way, acceptance of it all and let it unfold, boredom at later stage (could come in a few days), acceptance of it and let it unfold ... Blip when you least expect it (could also come in a few days after the boredom with EQ or even suddenly or never if your horoscope is totally fucked).


I am ALWAYS in the shit hole I just came out of. See the Bodhisattva thread, lame-brain. (Yeah, go ahead, go tattle to Chris Marti that i called you a name. I dare you. I double dog dare you. I will ad hominem your ass.)

emoticon
 


EQ is a bit like fishing. You throw the hook into water and wait. Yes it can be boring but you still wait and just look. The fish might hook up buty it might also refuse the bait. What can you do but sit and look and be bored with all that Status Quo-ness of it all. Acceptance yet again same as in DN.

Fucking A! This is actually the height of my aspirations. EQ is like the gutter after the binge: nothing much going on, but the absence of pain is enough for a drunk like me. People leave me alone, when i'm lying in the gutter.

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Have a nice day and see you on the other side! emoticon

I'll leave it to better anattas than "me" to tear you a new one on that "other side" shit.

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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 8:53 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 8:52 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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So, in the renewal of spirit here on this re-purposed thread, in its practice log aspect, closing out the graveyard shift in The Bar of Last Resort, with a smoke break in the alley:

I taken Daniel Ingram seriously when he says that techniques work as advertised, applied rightly. My go-to technique in basic practice is what I think of as a three-step technique: 1. Find the body and attend to that blip, wherever and however it presents itself on the radar screen of the six senses. 2. Note the breath as it arises, peaks, and passes. 3. Rinse with the technique's heart. Repeat as necessary, until all sentient brings as saved, hell is empty, and, uh, the good stuff, all that stuff.

Body, breath, word, 1, 2, 3. Body is dukha, almost always the easiest to find for me. Breath is anicca, transient in its essence, unless you're dead. 3. "Word" is anatta, the necessity of not-self, the rock that is higher than "I", the teknos of technique, the logos of the spiritual logic, in all its forms. In my native tradition, it is the word of God, and i use it in a fashion that is frankly mantra-like, despite the handwringing of many in the theistic traditions. (cf. the godawful assaults on the Centering Prayer movement for practicing something like the kind of heyschasm that goes back to the desert monks in the centuries after Jesus and lives on in robust fashion in the Eastern Orthodoxy.)

(fun side note: I've been reading lately about the history of a quasi-heretical use of the simplest repetition of the Name of the Lord in classic heyschast fashion, among the monks on Mt. Athos. At some point, some well-meaning devotee wrote a little tract that said the technique was so great that he saw it that the Name of God WAS God, so simply to invoke the Name was to be present to the Highest. Complications ensued, "the Name is God" proved to be a real fire-starter technique for a bunch of monks, to such a point that the monks who thought it was heresy, in that formulation, started fighting with the ones who were lit up with the technique's success in their own practice. It got to the point at which the Greek government felt they couldn't let it go on without intervention on Mt. Athos, an island left alone to its own monastic devices for hundreds of years at that point. The Tsar';s government, to forestall Greece taking over what was viewed as actually Russian territory, forestalled the Greek intervention and sent destroyers. The "Name of God is God" monks barricaded themselves in several monastaries, troops landed and blew them all out into the open with fire hoses, and scattered the heretics to various corners of Russia to scatter the problem, while the Metropole worked out whether that Name shit was a heresy or not. WW 1 broke out before the issue was settled, and the occasional Name fight still breaks out today, though no destroyers have had to be sent in recently.

the 1-2-3 by the numbers triune way of thinking of technique also appeals to my birth-Trinitarian devotional side, even though I can't answer, for my myself, yet, Jesus' Gospel question, "Who do men say that I am?" and am appalled by the two millennia of fratricide by people who do think they've answered it correctly. I take it as a koan, really.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 9:11 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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I taken Daniel Ingram seriously when he says that techniques work as advertised, applied rightly. My go-to technique in basic practice is what I think of as a three-step technique: 1. Find the body and attend to that blip, wherever and however it presents itself on the radar screen of the six senses. 2. Note the breath as it arises, peaks, and passes. 3. Rinse with the technique's heart. Repeat as necessary, until all sentient brings as saved, hell is empty, and, uh, the good stuff, all that stuff.

Tim, is this a description of your noting practice? I'm asking because I'm interested in getting more detail from you: what are the objects that arise when you do this practice, and what do you observe about them? Can you pick one recent instance of this, say a five to ten second occurrence, and describe it here?

Thanks.


Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 9:56 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Chris Marti:
I taken Daniel Ingram seriously when he says that techniques work as advertised, applied rightly. My go-to technique in basic practice is what I think of as a three-step technique: 1. Find the body and attend to that blip, wherever and however it presents itself on the radar screen of the six senses. 2. Note the breath as it arises, peaks, and passes. 3. Rinse with the technique's heart. Repeat as necessary, until all sentient brings as saved, hell is empty, and, uh, the good stuff, all that stuff.

Tim, is this a description of your noting practice? I'm asking because I'm interested in getting more detail from you: what are the objects that arise when you do this practice, and what do you observe about them? Can you pick one recent instance of this, say a five to ten second occurrence, and describe it here?

Thanks.



As a five-ten second sequence, and speaking the alien language of that kind of noting as I understand it and also from my recent lesson on Papa Che's video log:

ass hurts . . . fear . . . fear . . . turn to breath, upswing . . . seeing breah space . . . tension in temple . . . holding . . . worrying . . . edge of pain in temple . . . word . . . temple stress easing . . . fuck this is doable . . . i could fucking do this . . . i can stand this, actually . . . breath incoming, first movement . . . riding that . . . word . . .
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 10:17 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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ass hurts . . . fear . . . fear . . . turn to breath, upswing . . . seeing breah space . . . tension in temple . . . holding . . . worrying . . . edge of pain in temple . . . word . . . temple stress easing . . . fuck this is doable . . . i could fucking do this . . . i can stand this, actually . . . breath incoming, first movement . . . riding that . . . word . . .

These are all thoughts and somewhat emotionally charged "things." I'm going to theorize that these are very difficult things for you to apply the noting technique for the purpose Daniel Ingram lays out in MCTB. Would you be willing to try something slightly different? I'm thinking here that you choose an object that's pretty obvious to you. I used to put my hands together and focus on one place where they were touching. If you do this for ten or fifteen minutes, and you watch that object - the sensation of your two hands touching - what do you observe about that one thing?

And yes, there will be other things that interfere with this exercise - other thoughts, distractions, and so on. When those happen, just realize it and come back to your focus on the object being created when your hands touch.

Fair?

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 10:44 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Chris Marti:
ass hurts . . . fear . . . fear . . . turn to breath, upswing . . . seeing breah space . . . tension in temple . . . holding . . . worrying . . . edge of pain in temple . . . word . . . temple stress easing . . . fuck this is doable . . . i could fucking do this . . . i can stand this, actually . . . breath incoming, first movement . . . riding that . . . word . . .

These are all thoughts and somewhat emotionally charged "things." I'm going to theorize that these are very difficult things for you to apply the noting technique for the purpose Daniel Ingram lays out in MCTB

 yes


Would you be willing to try something slightly different?


yes

I'm thinking here that you choose an object that's pretty obvious to you. I used to put my hands together and focus on one place where they were touching. If you do this for ten or fifteen minutes, and you watch that object - the sensation of your two hands touching - what do you observe about that one thing? And yes, there will be other things that interfere with this exercise - other thoughts, distractions, and so on. When those happen, just realize it and come back to your focus on the object being created when your hands touch.


I use a re-purposed rosary in mala-like fashion in my practice, so I can just start with the Blessed Heart Of the Mother of God medallion piece at the start of the decades, both thumbs touching it, if you think that would work here. I will try this the next time I can stand it.

Fair?



Eminently fair, yes. Thank you.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 10:55 AM
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I think the rosary will work just fine. Let's try this and see what we get!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 11:13 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Okay, I took a run at it, for lack of anything better to do than get taken into custody by alarming my neighbors here.

10 minutes, maxed out, using the Virgin medallion as my touch point, with both thumbs meeting there. I'm in a manic energy regime right now, and ten minutes without a walking meditation is as much as i've managed for about a week now, so with a fourth meditation today this is now a step up into a mild but distinct sense of meditation retreat, inching toward sesshin.

The first run through, it was like a fourth step in my basic three step, for a while, brain out of habit going to prominent body sense, breath, mantra, oh right this is a new technique and where is that fucking touch point? Our Mother of God was impalpable, like trying to feel my fingertips while getting swept down a river, not exactly the most distinct blip on the bodily radar. In practice, it is like imagination, or an abstraction, letting go of everything again and again and trying to feel a place i know exists, which i can't find. It certainly simplifies things wonderfully, and the cycling gets faster and faster, everything, ?, everything, ? . . . My thoughts want it to be a literal mustard seed of faith, like: what does this literal mustard seed really feel like? It's pure koan right now. I can't fucking find it, all i can find is the intention to find it.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 11:18 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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That's all perfectly okay!

Also, please try again when you have the time and the inclination. After a few more tries, if the touchpoint on your rosary doesn't work we can choose another thing to pay attention to.

Questions?
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 11:25 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Chris Marti:
That's all perfectly okay!

Also, please try again when you have the time and the inclination. After a few more tries, if the touchpoint on your rosary doesn't work we can choose another thing to pay attention to.

Questions?


I appear to have stumbled into my vipassana intensive retreat, no liability incurred on your part, given my psychiatric history and meditation AMA and so forth. so i am going to take another run at it now. The literal pain in my ass may work better, today, and i'll try that next. But I'm taking another run at Our Lady of Maniacs now, and will check in post.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 11:45 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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If you do this for ten or fifteen minutes, and you watch that object - the
sensation of your two hands touching - what do you observe about that one
thing? And yes, there will be other things that interfere with this
exercise - other thoughts, distractions, and so on. When those happen, just
realize it and come back to your focus on the object being created when your
hands touch.

i took you pretty literally on the hint of "the object being created" this time, and put some literal effort into creating the sensation. 05:37, just above five minutes, i'm also taking you literally on the suggested timing of shooting for 10-15 for openers (it's all i can manage right now anyway), and i popped out from excitement this time, somehow, characteristic of manic energy, and had to go have a cigarette (don't start).

The medallion back side has two strings running through it, and i put one thumb on each string this time, and did a sort of systole-diastole thing of enough thumb against the strings to feel them, and release, which at least put the created object clear enough for me to return to it. It is similar in flavor only to something i've experienced in extremes of desire for liberation, a very liberating sense of fuck it to everything but this. This idiotic reduction of everything to this pulse of thumbs against tension is good enough for me, kind of thing, so very liberating immediately, in that sense, and fuck tempo, let it rise and fall according to the fundamental beat of desperation. This object, this is the work. . . . fuck you all, every one, bye-bye. This object, this pulse here in the thumbs, this rough string against the fingerprints. 

The pain in my ass faded nicely, but it is still the easiest thing to find at this point in the sesshin. Let me know if you think that might be better. But I sort of like pulling my own strings already, or the Mater-theos's strings, i guess. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 12:19 PM
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continuing in my spontaneous grace, gift of God sesshin here. I am using the technique Chris gave me scrupulously, and waiting for him to ask me for money, because this is priceless attention from him.

Last sit, I set the timer for a stretching-it but realistic 10 minutes, and went the full ten. Will add a minute for the next round. It is possible that Chris Marti, alone among humanity, has found a way to keep me out of china shops during a mania. 

I had a mini conceptual/framing insight this time through, of treating the technique as a very particular hatha yoga asana, and finding the specific point of tension in the mudra-type technique's created object. This simplified things enormously for me, and allowed me to more easily and cheerfully let go of my previous technique's inclinations as they arose, which should feel like burning my only bridge to sanity, but does't, it feels kind of liberating and light. My thumb pads feel almost scalded, very sensitized at this point, and i thought at a couple of points this could be affecting my fingerprints. If so, good, as i am wanted under my previous indentities in Oklahoma and Indiana, among other places.

The freedom from internal verbalization is very sweet. The whole thing continues to have that giddy fuck-it let-it-all-burn flavor of the most intense desire for liberation, without angst or weight, just a kind of exhilaration in every return of attention to the object. I've long thought that practice could be reduced to shub , the Hebrew word for "turn" or "return" to God, in its strongest usage, but a very pedestrian "turn," generally. It is sold badly short by New Testament translations of the usage by John the Baptist and Jesus as "repent," and even the Greek metanoia and verb forms. This technique is nothing but shub, naked shub. I love it.

Off to walk off some energy. If I am not taken into custody, I will shub to do the next round.

p.s. Radio check, radio check. Papa Che Actual, do you read me. This is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1, radio check, situation normal all fucked up. Do you copy, over?
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 1:04 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Last sit was the full 11 minutes, up from 10, and all sorts of memories coming up of retreats and intensives and sesshins, of just plain not wanting to get up before the bell on grounds of pure stubborn macho, prepared to piss in my pants and change clothes during the walking meditation kind of stuff. The numbers here are laughable, but irrelevant beyond the simple as much as i can stand standard, and this is brand new territory. It's a miracle for me to sit still for 11 minutes during a mania, and I'm going as gently as possible on pushing the miracle too far.

The attention has got it narrowed down now nicely to the two threads, one per thumb, complete with spiral texture, and the medallion gone. Touch is lighter now too, finding it easier to keep the object pulsing at each shub with less overt energy. It has immense appeal for my crazed manic metaphorical mind that thread means sutra, but i shub that as quickly as i can. There is this sense at moments of a perfect samurai sword just slicing through everything with absolute simplicity and no resistance, no heed for what's being cut, just the swoosh. My earlier sense of trying to concentrate on a button while being swept over a waterfall is also gone, on this last round, like, fuck the waterfall, i've got work to do here. I can feel my fingerprints and the whorl of the thread in dance-ish juxtaposition at moments, like partners staying in contact while staying to minimize the pressure of the mutual touch. Which is good, because i keep expecting to look at my thumb pads and see them burned away, it really does feel like a painless resting on a hot stove at moments. I had thread-prints on my thumbs after my second one on this track, but none since.

I'm going to take a walk and start a pot of rice, and do the next round with the timer at 0:11:01.

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 1:20 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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"this pulse here in the thumbs, this rough string against (also preassure) the fingerprints. 

The pain (maybe unpleasant) in my ass faded (vanishing) nicely, but it is still the easiest thing to find at this point in the sesshin."

Yeps! This sure sounds like Sati. Keep at it. 

I had much ars observation in my sit today; started as unpleasant numbness then turned into bubbling trubbing pulsating vibration almost massage-like with a neutral feel.

I usually stay with that which is very clear and prominent at any given moment. No wrong here but it sure helps to have that ONE ponit for re-orintation so one is not swept away into some narrative style meditation (Kenneth calls this half-arsed meditation). 
I always return to the body, lets say hands cupped together and there is warmth where they touch, touching, can get into slight vibration, maybe even numbness, wet feel between the fingers from sweating ...

Im reading you loud and clear even though I dont post, as Venerable Marti has you now and Im far faaaaar bellow His scope emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 1:49 PM
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Papa Che Dusko:
"this pulse here in the thumbs, this rough string against (also preassure) the fingerprints. 

No wrong here but it sure helps to have that ONE ponit for re-orintation so one is not swept away into some narrative style meditation (Kenneth calls this half-arsed meditation). 
I always return to the body, lets say hands cupped together and there is warmth where they touch, touching, can get into slight vibration, maybe even numbness, wet feel between the fingers from sweating ...


Thanks for the great edits, Oh Venerable Che. I will probably do a few extracurricular noting aloud video porn runs during this sesshin.

Technique right now--- Chris set me to work on this one: 

I'm thinking here that you choose an object that's pretty obvious to you. I used to put my hands together and focus on one place where they were touching. If you do this for ten or fifteen minutes, and you watch that object - the sensation of your two hands touching - what do you observe about that one thing? 

I've gone into spontaneous sesshin, under that blessing, and until he tweaks my technique, I'm sticking with the one he gave me.

I dread it when that fucker sends me his bill for this.

And yes, there will be other things that interfere with this exercise - other thoughts, distractions, and so on. When those happen, just realize it and come back to your focus on the object being created when your hands touch.


That's actually one of the sweetest things about this technique so far, the no harm, no foul, bring-it-home simplicity of it.


Im reading you loud and clear even though I dont post, as Venerable Marti has you now and Im far faaaaar bellow His scope

emoticon

 
Copy you five-by-Face, Papa Che Actual. You fucking promised to keep the channel open, amigo. You know my ass is grass out here, with the maps rotted to shit in the jungle damp. Counting on radio contact here, for when the shit hits the fan, as it does. Mean, routine report is SNAFU.  emoticon Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1, out.

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 4:11 PM
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"Counting on radio contact here, for when the shit hits the fan, as it does."

Radio is on! And I do know how it is when shit hits the fan bro emoticon You just keep observing those sensations. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 4:21 PM
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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 2:55 AM
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Papa Che Actual, this is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1, on station in deep doo-doo quadrant, routine report, SNAFU. Do you copy? Over.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:16 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Do you think about each step you make while lighting the fucking cigarette ? emoticon 

Yes. 

Do you remember when you light your VERY first cigarette? emoticon you know, than urge to get into it and be a man emoticon you feel the cig against your sweaty fingers, that anticipation arising in the chest, breathing is short and fast, like a whisper, you feel that distance as you urge, being shorter between the hand and lips getting ready to wrap themselves around that cigarette but. And then, th tip of tongue touching the end of the cig, that sour taste of tobacco so pleasant. Then you go for the lighter/matches and ... 

Fast forward to today; you don't even know you light another cigarette as you already have one in the ashtray still fucking smoking!!! emoticon 

You want that immediacy, that curiosity in each move in each breath you take, each thing you touch, each urge you feel. Not because it's a fucking practice emoticon It's being alive and conscious emoticon 

10 minutes of actual practice is fine. Try and nurture this curious immediacy throughout the day Without going into some guilt trips. Note that guilt. Note that ending of the 30 minute session because of that Urge, that Restlesness. Pinpoint that restless feeling in a body. Is it in the chest, is it in the belly? 

10 minutes is fine. Instead of dreading 20 more just to say hey look I e sat for 30 and dreading it is of no use. I would suggest 10 mins but do it for 10 minutes. Then during your off cushion activities still yourself and be curious about the cigarette and all those sensation involved. Or when you walk or shit or eat. Not as practice but as playful, still, curiosity. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:25 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Papa Che Dusko:
Do you think about each step you make while lighting the fucking cigarette ? emoticon 

Yes. 

Do you remember when you light your VERY first cigarette? emoticon you know, than urge to get into it and be a man emoticon you feel the cig against your sweaty fingers, that anticipation arising in the chest, breathing is short and fast, like a whisper, you feel that distance as you urge, being shorter between the hand and lips getting ready to wrap themselves around that cigarette but. And then, th tip of tongue touching the end of the cig, that sour taste of tobacco so pleasant. Then you go for the lighter/matches and ... 

Fast forward to today; you don't even know you light another cigarette as you already have one in the ashtray still fucking smoking!!! emoticon 

You want that immediacy, that curiosity in each move in each breath you take, each thing you touch, each urge you feel. Not because it's a fucking practice emoticon It's being alive and conscious emoticon 

10 minutes of actual practice is fine. Try and nurture this curious immediacy throughout the day Without going into some guilt trips. Note that guilt. Note that ending of the 30 minute session because of that Urge, that Restlesness. Pinpoint that restless feeling in a body. Is it in the chest, is it in the belly? 

10 minutes is fine. Instead of dreading 20 more just to say hey look I e sat for 30 and dreading it is of no use. I would suggest 10 mins but do it for 10 minutes. Then during your off cushion activities still yourself and be curious about the cigarette and all those sensation involved. Or when you walk or shit or eat. Not as practice but as playful, still, curiosity. 

I love you, Papa-ji. emoticon
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 2:40 PM
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I can feel my fingerprints and the whorl of the thread in dance-ish juxtaposition at moments, like partners staying in contact while staying to minimize the pressure of the mutual touch. Which is good, because i keep expecting to look at my thumb pads and see them burned away, it really does feel like a painless resting on a hot stove at moments. I had thread-prints on my thumbs after my second one on this track, but none since.

Tim,

Can you keep doing this for a day or so? But don't push it too hard, too often or go too far. I'd prefer this be more like a game or some kind of play than work. While you watch your object (whatever that object is - as long as it's obvious to you), take a look at what it's composed of. What parts of what you observe can you attribute to an actual sensation and what parts are something else? What is the "something else?"


Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 2:50 PM
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Chris Marti:
I can feel my fingerprints and the whorl of the thread in dance-ish juxtaposition at moments, like partners staying in contact while staying to minimize the pressure of the mutual touch. Which is good, because i keep expecting to look at my thumb pads and see them burned away, it really does feel like a painless resting on a hot stove at moments. I had thread-prints on my thumbs after my second one on this track, but none since.

Tim,

Can you keep doing this for a day or so? 



Yes, and I want to.

But don't push it too hard, too often or go too far. I'd prefer this be more like a game or some kind of play than work.


Okay. It is very game-like right now, and it's a lot less work than anything else. I'm not pushing really at all, that i can tell. This just feels like the perfect thing to be doing right now.

While you watch your object (whatever that object is - as long as it's obvious to you), take a look at what it's composed of. What parts of what you observe can you attribute to an actual sensation and what parts are something else? What is the "something else?"


Okay. I'm sticking with the thread(s), the two thumb mudra creating the object. I'm about to do another round, but meanwhile, a question: how do i hold the discerning between sensation and "something else"? It seems like a two step. And querying the what of the "something else," ditto. I'm going to zero in on the sensation this round, with what you've said "in mind," and see how that goes.

I really cannot thank you enough right now. And Papa Che for having my six, while you're on point.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 3:01 PM
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I'm about to do another round, but meanwhile, a question: how do i hold the discerning between sensation and "something else"? It seems like a two step. And querying the what of the "something else," ditto.

The goal of this exercise is to observe the arising and the passing away of the object you're observing. So we're looking to see if we can identifiy the steps in that process. There is a sensation first. You can feel that. It has an obvious touching-sense to it, and an immediacy. It's tangible, right? But that's just the start of a process. So, for example, how do you know what it is that's touching? What is touching what? How do you know? This doesn't come easy for people, so take your time... and watch, Just watch. Watching is all you have to do.



Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 3:09 PM
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Chris Marti:
I'm about to do another round, but meanwhile, a question: how do i hold the discerning between sensation and "something else"? It seems like a two step. And querying the what of the "something else," ditto.

The goal of this exercise is to observe the arising and the passing away of the object you're observing. So we're looking to see if we can identifiy the steps in that process. There is a sensation first. You can feel that. It has an obvious touching-sense to it, and an immediacy. It's tangible, right? But that's just the start of a process. So, for example, how do you know what it is that's touching? What is touching what? How do you know? This doesn't come easy for people, so take your time... and watch, Just watch. Watching is all you have to do.




I think i might be better off right now with my basic sacral pain/pang/intensity as the object? It's just so much easier taking that as the sensation object right now. 0:11:02 on the last round, and I switched mid-stream to my attention up my ass. "There is a sensation first," and it seems pretty easy right now to start with the sensation as it presents itself. Very fucking tangible. And with the clarity of the sensation signal, it is just way easier to relax and watch it evolve, to notice the drift into "something else," the construction, interpretation, first drafts on reporting to you, etc. Okay? I will stick with the mudra if you think it's better.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 3:33 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:
Chris Marti:
I'm about to do another round, but meanwhile, a question: how do i hold the discerning between sensation and "something else"? It seems like a two step. And querying the what of the "something else," ditto.

The goal of this exercise is to observe the arising and the passing away of the object you're observing. So we're looking to see if we can identifiy the steps in that process. There is a sensation first. You can feel that. It has an obvious touching-sense to it, and an immediacy. It's tangible, right? But that's just the start of a process. So, for example, how do you know what it is that's touching? What is touching what? How do you know? This doesn't come easy for people, so take your time... and watch, Just watch. Watching is all you have to do.




I think i might be better off right now with my basic sacral pain/pang/intensity as the object? It's just so much easier taking that as the sensation object right now. 0:11:02 on the last round, and I switched mid-stream to my attention up my ass. "There is a sensation first," and it seems pretty easy right now to start with the sensation as it presents itself. Very fucking tangible. And with the clarity of the sensation signal, it is just way easier to relax and watch it evolve, to notice the drift into "something else," the construction, interpretation, first drafts on reporting to you, etc. Okay? I will stick with the mudra if you think it's better.

well, i went with my ass, 0:11:03. There is the initial locating of the sensation, and then immediately some kind of movement, a swirl or withdrawal, the attention looking for an angle to hold the sensation without intensifying it, but the sensation is gone, and there is a pulse "sent" to find it. I may be the slave of a radar metaphor right now, but the blip fades, the intention to perceive is renewed, not neatly from along a regular rotating front, which i could actually do with some imagination, but willy-nilly from a kind of nowhere that is particular, toward where i "think" the sensation is: a pulse that finds the sensation, and again, with the blip, the pulse, the actual pang, a kind of chaotic swirling of reaction, counterreaction, tweaking, efforts at control, and losing the sensation until there's a kind of gathering to send the next pulse of attention.
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Steph S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 4:30 PM
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Tim Farrington:

well, i went with my ass, 0:11:03. There is the initial locating of the sensation, and then immediately some kind of movement, a swirl or withdrawal, the attention looking for an angle to hold the sensation without intensifying it, but the sensation is gone, and there is a pulse "sent" to find it. I may be the slave of a radar metaphor right now, but the blip fades, the intention to perceive is renewed, not neatly from along a regular rotating front, which i could actually do with some imagination, but willy-nilly from a kind of nowhere that is particular, toward where i "think" the sensation is: a pulse that finds the sensation, and again, with the blip, the pulse, the actual pang, a kind of chaotic swirling of reaction, counterreaction, tweaking, efforts at control, and losing the sensation until there's a kind of gathering to send the next pulse of attention.

This is pretty good. In days of yore this was termed the "attention bounce" and that kinda stuck because it makes sense and I still use it. It's the movement that happens as a sensation becomes obvious where there is a mental formation that seems to try to "grab" the sensation, a shadowy wisp of a visualization, then tension that springs back again. Keep going and see what else there is.

I also like what Chris said about what is touching what.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 4:30 PM
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Oh nice one! "attention bounce". I have played with it yesterday or day before trying to Intent to pay attention to only one object and see for how long attention is going to stay there emoticon guess what emoticon it kept doing its own thing, sliding from one object to the next and I kept trying to keep it on that next object just to catch it in the very meoment when it slides or bounces onto the next. It just has life of its own emoticon HA! 
I will use this term from now on "attention bounce". I like it!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 6:16 PM
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Steph S:
Tim Farrington:

well, i went with my ass, 0:11:03. There is the initial locating of the sensation, and then immediately some kind of movement, a swirl or withdrawal, the attention looking for an angle to hold the sensation without intensifying it, but the sensation is gone, and there is a pulse "sent" to find it. I may be the slave of a radar metaphor right now, but the blip fades, the intention to perceive is renewed, not neatly from along a regular rotating front, which i could actually do with some imagination, but willy-nilly from a kind of nowhere that is particular, toward where i "think" the sensation is: a pulse that finds the sensation, and again, with the blip, the pulse, the actual pang, a kind of chaotic swirling of reaction, counterreaction, tweaking, efforts at control, and losing the sensation until there's a kind of gathering to send the next pulse of attention.

This is pretty good. In days of yore this was termed the "attention bounce" and that kinda stuck because it makes sense and I still use it. It's the movement that happens as a sensation becomes obvious where there is a mental formation that seems to try to "grab" the sensation, a shadowy wisp of a visualization, then tension that springs back again. Keep going and see what else there is.

I also like what Chris said about what is touching what.


Steph, thank you, I'm honored by your visit and interest. I missed this from you earlier, but the "attention bounce" is lovely and somehow heartening, like learning the first couple crucial words in a new language. Me had, uh, attention bounce? Yes? I also get the "grab" thing, though i'm not just i would know a mental formation if it, uh, grabbed me in the ass. "Shadowy wisp of a visualization," yes too, tension that springs back again, yes, a distinct sense often of echos, ripples going out from the initial tension, bouncing off "something," and returning to relocate a slightly different aspect of a slightly altered tension.

The what is touching what is kicking my ass, because it's all happening somewhere impalpable, setting up the next palpability, or invisibly, settting up the next sense of visual space, and while my sense of the movement is distinctly constrained by muscle tensions showing the limits, it really just gets worse under attention's efforts to see what is actually doing what to what where and how. I mean, it's a serenely effortless cluster fuck of clueless efforts exercising themselves until they collapse under the dissonance. Then i just think, well, thank God my ass hurts so bad right now, it's all i've really got going for me here. I'll always have my ass, and can report, "Chris, yet again, i have located my ass once and maybe twice a sit. Me good boy, me work hahd."

It is not boring yet.

Thank you again, your attention is a gift.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 3:36 PM
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I will stick with the mudra if you think it's better.

Go with what is easier for you to notice.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 4:02 PM
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Chris Marti:
I will stick with the mudra if you think it's better.

Go with what is easier for you to notice.


Okay, thanks. I had a little supper, and am going back in search of my ass.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 6:02 PM
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0:11:06 on the last sit, just a good length, so my energy/edginess/antsiness has really settled down.

To try to hold the sensation steady just makes it crazy, basically; there is already something moving somehow even as the sensation is being noticed, a step ahead of mind and sensation, like there's a chord played and i'm trying to register the individual notes in sequence and then going nuts chasing after this note at the expense of that note, spiraling into dissonace and making new noise the whole way.

The other thing is, these are very short fucking sits, without a lot of room for different inner rhythms and spontaneous synesthesias to happen, due to the prevailing manic climate, and trying to not push too hard too fast in this grace of a sesshin. Once my ass has had a rest, I'm going to shoot for longer intervals, tomorrow, start with twenty minutes, maybe, beginners' meditation standard dose, and see from there. But I've got one more round in me this evening before i go to sleep. i was up at my usual three am this morning, and have been sitting my ass off in ten minute chunks happily all day, but mania protocol and prudence tell me from experience that pushing on beyond my normal bedtime too much is asking for a death spiral into not sleeping at all for a while, so i'm going to play it conservatively tonight and try to sleep well.

I love the simplicity of it, it is a pure cluster fuck, one step at a time, nowhere. Plus a new technique and a language i obviously don't speak a word of yet. Papa Che called it, it's like i got dropped in the middle of a Burmese forest, with no one on my six but Papa Che back there somewhere maintaining radio contact, and Chris Fucking Marti up ahead of me something calling back exquisite and explicit directions in cheerful incomprehensible Burmese. As I said, I love it, and could not be more grateful. But me no speakee, me not so smart heah.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:33 AM
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To try to hold the sensation steady just makes it crazy, basically; there is already something moving somehow even as the sensation is being noticed, a step ahead of mind and sensation, like there's a chord played and i'm trying to register the individual notes in sequence and then going nuts chasing after this note at the expense of that note, spiraling into dissonace and making new noise the whole way.

This is great work, Tim! You're noticing some very important things here. What does this tell you about the way you perceive things all the time?
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:38 AM
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Chris Marti:
To try to hold the sensation steady just makes it crazy, basically; there is already something moving somehow even as the sensation is being noticed, a step ahead of mind and sensation, like there's a chord played and i'm trying to register the individual notes in sequence and then going nuts chasing after this note at the expense of that note, spiraling into dissonace and making new noise the whole way.

This is great work, Tim! You're noticing some very important things here. What does this tell you about the way you perceive things all the time?

Uh-oh.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:40 AM
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Internet connect was funky for a spell, so a couple, here:

6th sit, 10:05, basic toddler’s pace. It is so hard
simply to sit still while manic, and yet nothing is better for mania than to
sit still in peaceful focus. An immediate and blatantly obvious fruit of very
minimal meditative effort and practice: this deep into something that would
have had me hospitalized in the past, and not a cop at my door yet. My
neighbors still love me. I wish I could convey this to HMK somehow, but
unfortunately, he is not psychotic. But he and I are so much alike in so many
ways, including greed and despair. The true real effect of meditation properly
practiced as an antidote to both greed and despair is palpable, potent,
visible, experienceable without any special add-ons whatsoever. We pay hard,
getting greed and despair wrong; to meditate properly, even for a moment, is to
see the fruits of (even as a glimpsed possibility) beginning once in a while to
get greed and despair right. 

7th sit 0:10:06. Feeling such compassion for this battered body, and this frantic energized mind, and this
breath trying to soothe both into harmony. Just really seeing why I am so slow
to note sensation: there have been so many times it seemed like I just couldn’t
afford to note it fast enough to stay in sync with whatever the world seemed to
be asking of me, or demanding of me. I think of Linda, and the unique
meditative journey through toward realistic appreciation of her autism, having
to fight every step of the way against people prepared to take the cheap
superiority shots of the “normal.” As if every meditative journey did not
reveal everyone’s abnormality to them in ever deeper and finer grain. Patience
and acceptance, the wise man said, answering the koan of what fruits meditators
might bring to the current world crisis. Patience and acceptance, the end of
greed and the end of despair, starting within, in practice, with the self we’re
all so eager to annihilate before it ripens to fall from the tree on its own.
Starting with whoever’s on the mat beside us. Starting now.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:55 AM
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3rd sit of the day, 15 minutes. Papa Che's feedback on ambitiousness in length was timely (get it? "timely"? emoticon) and I am relaxed about letting the time level off where it wants to and not pushing it to impress you, or myself. I would love to impress Papa Che, though.

So a lot of harangue in this sit, very typical second day sesshin stuff, like the second day of a fast is the worst. Articulating the pace thing to me just seems so crucial: i really do take seconds to let a sensate pulse run its course and pick up the next one, and if i push that, shit starts flying in every direction from every sense door.

(edit) Chris, one funny bit from the harangue: this technique may be the most effective mania buster ever. I feel that you are going to guide me from mania to depression in a matter of days, at this point. This technique beats a straitjacket and four-point restraints in every way, and no Haldol either. For this, and all your gifts, we give you thanks, amen.

(edit 2) one more bit you might find amusing, from a bodhisattva conversation with smiling stone: 

I've actually been blessed and graced to find my way into a spontaneous sesshin under the direction of Chris Marti for now, and he's got me working technique in much more rigorous vipassana fashion, moving toward a noting practice. My first serious insight is that it seems to me that i quite literally can't stand sensation offering itself any faster than pulses of at least a couple of seconds; anything faster and it's fireworks, contortions, spasms, bolts of lightning, burning rivers of flame and lakes of fire, and speaking in tongues with Tourette's default. My Bodhisattva vow is easy-peasy, because my projected pace, by all available data, will make me the last person out of the bar whether i want to be or not. And believe me, I have tried everything to escape, it just tightens the knots. I rely on the metta of friends and strangers, in the long run.

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:33 AM
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4th sit, aiming for yesterday's gold standard of 0:11:07, on the advice of my smiley master, whom i am desperate to impress. Like Mama Bear's oatmeal, just right.

pace, pace, pace. I love this technique, once i really accept what it reveals about me, my practice, my neurochemistry, etc. I really just can't stand too much embodiment. What i've learned best, I've learned in bottomless wells and lakes of fire, and there's no hurry in either of those places to achieve a high turnaround time on sensor feedback loops. Sitting in a lake of fire, one pulse is plenty for a while, and after an eon or two, you might want to consider checking for another pulse, and with some practice you can get it as hot as you like for the next sensation, and get the fuck out of dodge without even needing to feel the full burn. Ditto for dying of thirst in the desert, you just crawl on toward the next mirage, you don't need to parse every cactus thorn and rattlesnake bite, you keep enough sensory feedback to stay oriented toward the delusion of water, and crawl on. This is my home turf, and my home pace.

That said, accepting the failure of rpm ambitions, i do find this technique refreshing, interesting--- bearable, too, and sutainable. One of the MCBT2 culture things that has struck me for years is that distinct Daniel note of cranking it up. I remember reading the first edition of the book in 2011 and thinking it just sounded like he was really really good at a zapping-type video games. I love his mind and those alien capacities, and this without even getting into his phenomenological vocabulary in all that matchless subtlety and sophistication, his courage, his bull detector, all that. I love the maps, and cross maps, and fractal fine points and nuances of maps within maps. But at the end of the day, meditation for me, getting it right, is simply life and death, and trying to be Daniel-esque would kill me in about fifteen seconds. It's a recurrent fever. I would love to be Chris Marti-esque, i find those old practice logs thrilling and inspiring, just so beautiful, and I am in awe. But that would kill me in 16 seconds, maybe. I could survive maybe half a minute trying to emulate Papa-ji. and so on. But i'm not making it anywhere except at a pace i can sustain, complete with breakdowns, relapses, et al. To find my sits clocking in at 11 minutes is humiliating right up until it's liberating. To be such a clueless, phenomenologically tongue-tied beginner being hand-led into the gentlest hint of a pre-beginner's approach to noting sensation is humbling in the best sense, of humility as the highest realism: it is what it is.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:50 AM
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" my smiley master, whom i am desperate to impress."

Fuck the smiley master or any one else for that matter emoticon 

Stay with what is; urge to smoke, where is the urge in the body, ah yes there, feels like pressure or else, there is craving, intention, action, touching, moving, dum satisfaction, touch, taste, ... 

Im already impressed. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 5:11 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
" my smiley master, whom i am desperate to impress."

Fuck the smiley master or any one else for that matter emoticon 

Stay with what is; urge to smoke, where is the urge in the body, ah yes there, feels like pressure or else, there is craving, intention, action, touching, moving, dum satisfaction, touch, taste, ... 

Im already impressed. 
I knew that. But let's face it, Papa-ji, you are a really cheap date. emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 5:22 AM
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5th sit, 10:04. Unhurried and fearless throughout, and then a big wave of physical energy lifting me out into gotta move gotta move. Was not arrested while moving. Very good sign.

The thing is, it really seems to me that every sensation, once the first pulse registered lights off the chain reaction under attention, is essentially the result of some kind of negotiation, between the body, working according to its own agenda and wisdom, the breath, ditto, and something else, into which i have no real motivation to inquire beyond recognizing that it ain't me, babe, no no no, it ain't me, babe, it ain't me i'm looking for, babe. I know through hard experience that all i can do is fuck up that negotiation for the next sensory feedback if i stick my nose in. I think the rhythm of the whole loop from pulse to non-sensory negotiatory (or whatever the fuck is going on) process to the next sensory feedback the body sees fit to bestow is very much its own, highly variable, and so far i'm still alive despite all my best efforts, so even arguably evolutionarily adequate. 

Love you, Chris. Thank God Papa-ji is in Europe or whatever, time-zone-wise; i really do feel you guys cover the waterfront beautifully from either side.
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 To be such a clueless, phenomenologically tongue-tied beginner being hand-led into the gentlest hint of a pre-beginner's approach to noting sensation is humbling in the best sense, of humility as the highest realism: it is what it is.

The first actual book I read on meditation and technique was MCBT2. For a year and a couple months, I had absolutely not a fucking clue what he was on about regarding noting. I was a breath man, though. I could do that. So I did pretty much to exclusion of all else. I would read discussion on here or read other books and be absolutely lost as to what the hell noting meant and how one does it. 

Anyway - after I had some kind of breathrough around 18 months of breathing, I was able to figure out what everyone was talking about in the absolute most basic sense. I am learning a lot about noting by reading your noting difficulty, rumination, and the direction/encouragement of your pals. 



Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:23 AM
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T:
 To be such a clueless, phenomenologically tongue-tied beginner being hand-led into the gentlest hint of a pre-beginner's approach to noting sensation is humbling in the best sense, of humility as the highest realism: it is what it is.

The first actual book I read on meditation and technique was MCBT2. For a year and a couple months, I had absolutely not a fucking clue what he was on about regarding noting. I was a breath man, though. I could do that. So I did pretty much to exclusion of all else. I would read discussion on here or read other books and be absolutely lost as to what the hell noting meant and how one does it. 

Anyway - after I had some kind of breathrough around 18 months of breathing, I was able to figure out what everyone was talking about in the absolute most basic sense. I am learning a lot about noting by reading your noting difficulty, rumination, and the direction/encouragement of your pals. 




I had practised nothing but what in retrospect was concentration stuff, shamatha, until i read MCTB1 in 2011, so most of what he was saying went wway way over my head. I did another round with MCBT in 2015, and believed at that time i might have a toe in the water of something in my practice that was vipassna-esque, at least. Then I found MCBT2, and came around again here, and i don't know shit about vipassna! emoticon So this is just fucking fantastic, as far as i'm concerned. I'm just trying to keep Chris Marti from worrying about me to shut the sesshin down, at this point, and to practice how he tells me, and to listen gratefully and fruitfully  to all the other people who are being so generous with help, support, advice, and sanity-watch babysitting shifts.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:43 AM
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This practice, I hope, is more like that walk you took with Hartley, not a marathon, and certainly not a sprint.
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0:11:04, and surprised by the end chime, which is sort of nice itself. The sensation is easy, sharp; and then immediate movement of attention, like water sloshing in a tub, through the abdomen, the neck, the temples, rebounding there, as if against a barrier, and from there i let go into a pulse directed toward the "last known location" of the sensation, which registers, and i'm off it again like it's a hot stove, moving attention, looking for a softer angle within that stays in touch without sharpening or losing the sensation, but leap to the head, the temple (right), and an imagination, like trying to complete a pattern, looking to pulse toward the last known location. Like riding a bucking bronco and my ass literally lifting out of the saddle at the top of the horse's leap, then feeling it again as we hit. Cowboy saddle ass, just trying to ride for my eight seconds. First glimpses of hell, fear, after the initial exhilarations, like "Uh-uh, it just gets worse from here," but the sensation itself is not full-on painful, just intense. There is a sense of frustration in that my language for the swirling is so vague, but i seem to have a complex habitual system of "moves", rotational, velocity, angle of momentum in a complex internal "physics vocabulalry," like theories about the sensation, between pulses of actually feeling it, and settling off little ripples or points of sensation in other places, belly, back, neck, temple, forehead, jaw, and i "do" what feels like a kind of judo move to turn the attention back to the objective pain in the ass, like backspin.
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0:11:05, again easy and steady with the interval. I had Chris's "Watch, just watch. Watching is all you have to do" toward the forefront this time through, and was picking up the sensate pulse and then seeing the switch to visual, and trying to hold both sensory modes in view/feel, the seeing high, in the head, like working in a malleable space with invisible but specific parameters, while attending to the pulse of recurrent sensation, the drifting of the sensation in its tactile medium, and groping to keep a hold on that, like a wrestler maneuvering to stay in touch with his opponent while feeling for his next move, until there's a collapse point, letting go of both seeing under head/eyestrain and feeling toward the sensation, letting it all go to shit and confusion for a beat, then finding the way to the next sensation pulse. And dancing, a sense of maneuvering, looking for the gentlest angle, and the literal shift of attention into vision, seeing, and the two senses seemingly in relation, before again a kind of crunch, a jar, a collapse, a dissonance, and around we go, searching for my ass with a ten-man working party, as the Marines say.
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Last round of the day, 0:11:07. I do think there is an almost palpable preliminary process setting up every palpable sensation, and looking at the sensation is right now for me like sticking a wrench in those gears and knocking everything out of whack. The body sorts of dances with itself outside of my perception, and responds to my attention by offering a sensation. Whatever I'm doing right now in this watching the sensation evolve technique just feels really really off. Transience, dukha, anatta, not fucking problem. Whatever this shit is, though, is tough as nails. I am just lost in a hall of mirrors right now, sensations spooking out here and there, not a fucking clue what it might mean to watch, and how, and what, and from where. A radically new technique is very sink or swim, it seems. And right now i'm not even sure what swimming could mean. I'm going to take this ass to bed, and have a nightcap of Jeremiah from the Lamentations: "It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because His compassions fail not. They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness."

I sure hope His compassions will be new tomorrow morning.

I am so grateful for this cluster fuck of a manic sesshin. Thanks, Chris, thanks Papa Che, thanks Steph, for a lovely day. Great is y'all's faithfulness and compassion as well.
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Okay, up and at 'em a little earlier than usual, but not alarmingly so. Asleep at 7 here last night and up at 1 a.m.is a solid six hours, for those with a clinical eye out for a manic spiral into increasing sleeplessness. This isn't that, this is simply the Great Doubt not letting me be in bed as much as I might like, an eagerness to just get to work. Also for the clinical notes, appetite is down, maybe half of my usual. I've lost as much as twenty pounds during past manias, and, as with sleep so far, this isn't that. There's no question i'm along the manic spectrum, energy-wise, mentally, speeded-up-ily, tough-to-sit-still-wise. 

The instruction for this practice right now, per Chris yesterday:
The goal of this exercise is to observe the arising and the passing away of the
object you're observing. So we're looking to see if we can identifiy the steps
in that process. There is a sensation first. You can feel that. It has an
obvious touching-sense to it, and an immediacy. It's tangible, right? But that's just
the start of a process. So, for example, how do you know what it is that's
touching? What is touching? How do you know? This doesn't come easy for people, so take your time... and watch. Just watch. Watching is all you have to do.

Jesus says (Mark 13:37): "And what I say unto you, Isay unto all: Watch."

And not I, but Chris in me.

First sit this morning, I just let my usual timer, set at 1:12:19, run, knowing I would be unlikely to do that, and in fact went just over half an hour before i bailed and had to pace and smoke. So I'll take that as my standard length for the time being, start at 30 minutes for each sit, add or subtract a second per sit according to if I make that long or jump up and go risk being taken into custody somewhere.

I've been using the most fundamental point of bodily tension in my basic in-a-chair meditation asana as my meditation seed object: right where my ass is ana chair, basically. My mantra-prayer is often trying to run in the background, years of habit there, like a piano timer clicking. I can't entirely ignore the breath at this point. The basic first take on the sacral sensation immediately leads to a kind of flurry of responses, like all this stuff has swung into motion and there has to be scurrying around at multiple levels to set up the next pulse of actual sensation, which may come as a development of the first, or in a somewhat "obvious" counter pang in the neck or shoulder and opposite side of the back, or in a shift to visual space where the body is doing whatever that shit is that it's doing to rearrange itself to offer the next pulse. In a way, it just feels like keeping a balance without aggravating anything more than necessary, like the body, left to its own devices, is perfectly willing to do these simple, efficient, invisible things and offer me an entirely bearable little orienting pang on demand. Pushing the pace, or a heavy attention on the throttle, fucks it up royally, as a lot of the time yesterday. The breath is always in play, sometimes as a caressing, soothing partner to the gyroscopic mechanics, sometimes out of sync somehow, in a way that sets up a chain of overcompensations, neck, jaw, brow, temple, base of neck, similar to the flailing of hands while losing the balance on a tightrope or something. Sometimes the dissonance resolves (in my previous technique, it often happened during the internal verbalization of the mantra, while my back was turned, so to speak), sometimes i just have to let it crash and reboot, sometimes that aspect is almost indistinguishable, "resolution"  and "crash" both being simply somehow finding the pulse of actual sensation anew and starting the whole ping pong game again with a new serve.

i feel like a fucking bull in a china shop with this alien technique from this pagan fucking vipassana maniac who does not appear to me to speak english in any form i can recognize at this point. It's really great fun, being quite this clueless, hopeless, and floundering. I'm lost in shit most people on DhO probably mastered and moved on from in a month or two, twenty years ago. Humility is not a virtue, it's a survival necessity. Possibly more important than breathing. I'd happily stop breathing at any given moment in this dry-ass dry-lightning storm of a fucked up technique meditation, and not resume, but without humility here I'd be obliterated before i needed to take another breath anyway.

love, you, Chris. emoticon




,
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 2:52 AM
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second sit of the morning, aiming for 30 minutes, bailing at 20. The seed object, the fundamental sacral sensation at the pressure point of the asana, is easy to return to at any given moment, but every return sets off pulses and echoes and waves and whirlings, none sensate, but all "evident." If I push the pace in the least, meaning I try to pick up the sensation again before the other shit all runs its course, it inevitably leads to a catastrophic build of confusion tension, a chaos trying various somethings amplifying and nullifying all the other somethings, burning shoot along through my skull like a lit fast-fuse, zip, knife stab at the temple, eyes crossing or rolling up, little tornado-like whirlies, semi-visual, in the higher spaces, looking for room to roam as the actual space seems to shrink and finally collapse from all the dissonance. Then I curse Christ Marti, briefly but wholeheartedly, for sending me out with such explicit instructions into this fucking desert of a technique, this comfortless pinball game, this closed system snake fight. Then, a waft of attention, and the first sensate pulse is easy. Sometimes I really do just let that shit all play, unable to even consider any of the questions of deeper examination---
how do you know what it is that's touching? What is touching what? How do you know?

--- because I don't know shit, Chris, amigo. And when i try to know shit like that, at a higher rate than what is easy in balance, it hurts like fuck. I feel like any sensation takes about 2 seconds to "set up" without pain or wacked out pyrotechnic side effects. I know Daniel says 40 notings per second is possible ("I don't know where people get billions of notings per second, he adds, which just fucking cracks me up, because 40 and billions are indistinguishable to me). I believe him. I would believe pretty much any fucking wacked out number you told me.  I know Papa Che works at 5-10 notings per second, which appears to be an easy loping pace for him, i've literally seen and heard him do it. How he does that without his entire psychosomatic system seizing up and spasming is just fucking beyond me.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:40 AM
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because I don't know shit, Chris, amigo. And when i try to know shit like that, at a higher rate than what is easy in balance, it hurts like fuck. I feel like any sensation takes about 2 seconds to "set up" without pain or wacked out pyrotechnic side effects. I know Daniel says 40 notings per second is possible ("I don't know where people get billions of notings per second, he adds, which just fucking cracks me up, because 40 and billions are indistinguishable to me). I believe him. I would believe pretty much any fucking wacked out number you told me.  I know Papa Che works at 5-10 notings per second, which appears to be an easy loping pace for him, i've literally seen and heard him do it. How he does that without his entire psychosomatic system seizing up and spasming is just fucking beyond me.

This is normal stuff, Tim. As difficult as this may be, for all of us, please try not to overthink this. Who cares how fast someone else can note stuff? That's not even close to being important and that's not your goal. Your goal is just to observe, as best you can, that one object.

I'm worried this is going to cause frustration and other sorts of problems. If at any time you feel that it is, STOP. Send me a message. I do not want bad shit to happen to you or anyone.


Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:43 AM
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Chris Marti:
because I don't know shit, Chris, amigo. And when i try to know shit like that, at a higher rate than what is easy in balance, it hurts like fuck. I feel like any sensation takes about 2 seconds to "set up" without pain or wacked out pyrotechnic side effects. I know Daniel says 40 notings per second is possible ("I don't know where people get billions of notings per second, he adds, which just fucking cracks me up, because 40 and billions are indistinguishable to me). I believe him. I would believe pretty much any fucking wacked out number you told me.  I know Papa Che works at 5-10 notings per second, which appears to be an easy loping pace for him, i've literally seen and heard him do it. How he does that without his entire psychosomatic system seizing up and spasming is just fucking beyond me.

This is normal stuff, Tim. As difficult as this may be, for all of us, please try not to overthink this. Who cares how fast someone else can note stuff? That's not even close to being important and that's not your goal. Your goal is just to observe, as best you can, that one object.

I'm worried this is going to cause frustration and other sorts of problems. If at any time you feel that it is, STOP. Send me a message. I do not want bad shit to happen to you or anyone.



emoticon
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:44 AM
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What would we call that particular smiley? Kissy-face?
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:50 AM
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"Smooch."
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 6:55 AM
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Ah, that's it! Thank you.

You may imagine how this goes - first, there is this sense perception, and then some kind of processing happens "in there," and then an attempt at defining and naming occurs.

emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:03 AM
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Chris Marti:


You may imagine how this goes - first, there is this sense perception, and then some kind of processing happens "in there," and then an attempt at defining and naming occurs.

emoticon

As in, "Shit, man, I know you're manic, and I want to be supportive, but don't kiss me again until you've bathed and shaved"?

emoticon

p.s. i hope Papa-ji spots you using that fucking smiley-face. emoticon
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:08 AM
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We're all maniacs. Some of us are more honest about it than others.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:25 AM
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Chris Marti:
We're all maniacs. Some of us are more honest about it than others.


And some of us just spout any damn shit that comes into their warped minds.

emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 8:24 AM
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8th sit, 0:10:07. Much easier with the technique now. The sacral pang sensation that begins can be "There is sharp pang" or "There is texture like a heavy rope" or "There is a gentle lighting-up, like something caused by wind."

Is there a way of saying, in this vein, "There is space opening, up into the out and right" or "there is space opening, down across the chest and into the belly?" That is distinct enough to note.

Also, there is a dialogue of sorts that goes sort of "There is pang" . . . "There is seeing" . . . "there is lighter pang" . . . "there is seeing." The sits right now may not have time, but in the past, along this dialogue's lines, there have been synesthetic mergers deeper in, where the "seeing" and the "feeling" were synched enough that noting one was as good as noting the other, usually with seeing covering both somehow.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 8:58 AM
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9th sit, 0:05:09. Popped out early, overexcited about vocabulary. I am intent on establishing a few baby talk phenomenological terms as part of job one here. "There is sensation here" begins, often with a characterizing word, sharp, shooting, dull, fiery, gentle. "There is seeing" is an attention bounce (thank you Steph S) from feeling to seeing, and i could probably be more attentive to lights and colors, against all my John of the Cross training to ignore that shit. 

The ones I'd like to know whether they are legit, viable vocabulary are:

"There is space opening (usually with direction)" or "There is a squeeze on space (short of palpability, but often followed closely by a sensation 180 degrees across, as in "There is a squeeze on space in the upper right head" . . . There is tightness behind the left lower ribs")

"There is movement," sometimes obviously breath, somtimes obviously thought or mind, but often unattributable, in my state of the art discernment, yet, uh, notable.

I'm working on the primer glossary here.

Going to take a walk now, on a gorgeous cool spring day with the azaleas in full bloom here. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 11:23 AM
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10th sit, 0:10:07. Still working on what is sensation, what is "noticable," what is "namable". A lot of it has to do simply with the muscular-skeletal network's gives and takes--- one kind of what i called "movement" in the last post this time seemed to be clearly an awareness of a muscle or set of muscles relaxing, in prelude to a contraction that would cause the next sensation--- attention, following the movement, gets faked out, because the sensation generation from that relaxing movement contracting again is itself somewhere else entirely, where the contraction brings something to tension, so attention feels a "discontinuity," like "Hey, why are 'movement' and sensation out of whack?" They're not, of course, in this simple case: there is a false expectation, a hidden dukha-generating assumption resisting the simpler reality. Attention taken lightly enough is entirely capable of registering both the preliminary "movement" of impalpable relaxation, and the not entirely predictable sensation arising from the subsequent contraction, with getting its panties in a bunch or hollering at its teacher.

"Space opening" still sort of impenetrable, sometimes it seems it might just be breath, or imagination, or something false somewhere in the mind that needs a literal sense of space for some reason. All speculative; but the thing i could note and name as "space opening" is distinct, and is not sensate, though a lot of sensate effects, especially above the neck, tend to crop up somewhere along its perimeter as it "moves."

My short walked turn long, earlier, as I got waylaid by Hartley, the four-year-daughter of the musician down the street, who was at loose ends while her dad tried to get his taxes done. Four year olds tend to see a slightly manic me as wonderful, and we made the most of it, wandering here and there and doing this and that.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 12:07 PM
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sit 11, 0:05:00. One problem with the manic regime presently active is the inability to sit still with anything that has a WHIFF of insight.

So i leaped up at recognizing that there is a whole category of head sensations, movements, space-generation and space-contraction, that essentially has nothing to do with the basic below-the-neck meditation pain in the ass. The head shit is on its own circuit a lot of the time, and a lot of the gymnastic's and contortions can sort of be reasonably hypothesized as the attempts of an invisible Watcher to make himself feel comfortable and secure. The guy apparently needs his space. He is always moving, looking for a workable angle on the action below. He likes to chart out trajectories, put spin on stuff, juggle. He does math, the Newtonian physics of intention pulses, and he appears to believe he has a handle on quantum gravity, mathematically at least. He is literally a pain in the skull, and above the eyes, and behind the eyes. A lot of the fireworks are him dancing as fast as he can to get traction on some solid ground again after he has finally walked out over the cliff and is hanging there in the air like Wile E. Coyote.

All speculative, of course. This could actually be him typing. He is one sly motherfucker, i'll give him that.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 12:42 PM
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April 14, 2020. sit 12.  0:10:07

Yeah, a lot of this head tension is a ghost trying to keep himself comfy and continuous, literally pulling the strings of muscle and nerve, literally trying to stay above it all. There is a separate dynamic, its own loop, in which all the sensation are literally body english trying to enforce some kind of control over what the body below the neck does perfectly well all by itself. The translation resources are still paltry here, given that my noting vocabulary consists right now of two grunts and a kind of hoot. There is GRUNT 1. . . There is hoot . . . There is grunt 2! . . . But in my previous techniques, i could regularlysee this double dynamic going on, below the neck and above, crudely put, and thought of it as something in my mind systematically painting itself into a corner, through body english that was first contradictory, then painfully out of sync, and finally flat out incompatible with what the body had to get done to do its job. At that point, if i watched it all the way through the panic of imminent discontinuity, you could feel it dissolve, like something built up as apocalyptic turned out to be a dud firecracker, less than that, an exhausted whim: gone, and the breath and body went on about their business. Not a lot of noting language in that yet.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 1:43 PM
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April 14, 2020, sit 13.  0:10:08
Sort of alert to the above the neck/below dynamics this time, just looking for a fight. I found myself actually, paradoxically--- in that it buys into the Control Center's fantasy--- trying to keep the attention below the neck, then realized i had done that a thousand times over the years, from various angles, and that the best way through it is to let the Control Center's dynamic run its parallel, and increasingly unharmonic course, until the dead end somewhere high up in the skull, no more space to create, no more movement possible without what the Control Center's presumption is would be GREAT BODILY PAIN. He's all in, all dressed up in the emperor's best new clothes and nowhere to go, and, if you just give it a real moment of fearless attention, "risking" GREAT BODILY PAIN OR WORSE, the body finds a completely surprising spontaneous solution to the apparent Gordian knot of cross tensions, generally painlessly, a creative dissolving of the whole hyped-up "bind," and the controller vanishes. It's actually one of the most reconizable doors to deeper meditation for me, those mini-dissolutions when the Controller's continuity hopes fail, power fanasties are exposed as empty, and gate gate paragate poof.

uh, practice notes, for Chris and Papa-ji: There is Grunt 2 . . . There is pain in the ass . . . there is pain in the neck . . . There is hoot . . . There is Grunt 1. My vocabulary of remedial pre-noting growing by leaps and, uh, grunts.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 2:11 PM
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You are certainly doing it! Keep at it during the 10 minutes sits and make sure to give your self an attaboy after the session and really enjoy it emoticon (dunno, a cig, a walk, a good laugh, salty liquorice (Danish ones are best) )

I managed to upload this short vid thats made for you (took it 1h30min to upload for some reason) I tried to demo the "There is" method which utilised naivite-like wonder and curiosity and is done in no hurry AT ALL. I hope its of some benefit and if not also good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:40 PM
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Papa Che Dusko:


I managed to upload this short vid thats made for you (took it 1h30min to upload for some reason) I tried to demo the "There is" method which utilised naivite-like wonder and curiosity and is done in no hurry AT ALL. I hope its of some benefit and if not also good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA


April 14, 2020. sit 14. 0:06:31 (Papa Che guided "There is" noting)

Wowowoowow. Wow. Thank you, Papaji.

The pace is exquisite, and is very rich for me. I was sort of hypotized, i think, to a degree---swallowed immediately when you noted it, e.g., nd even with me eyes closed i saw the window. I was actually sitting with my hands in precisely the same position as yours (old zen thing, maybe? some mudra somewhere, but also, very close the loopish for me), same hand on top and bottom, same thumbs together, no rosary, which i now realize was Chris's original suggestion, the actually meeting of two fingers. And i felt it, easily, half a beat behind you all the way at that truly generous and exquisite pace.

The porn lick goes without saying as the greatest moment of my life, of course.

I will probably use this again and again for a while, at points, because it is not just a master class in pace and approach and attitude, it gives me a broader working vocabulary of the noticeable and the namable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA

and loved the personal touch, i almost burst into tears, you [name-calling and ad hominem attack deleted as per DhO rules].

emoticon

You are certainly doing it! Keep at it during the 10 minutes sits and make sure to give your self an attaboy after the session and really enjoy it

emoticon

(dunno, a cig, a walk, a good laugh, salty liquorice (Danish ones are best) )



Will work ass off for cigs. emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:51 PM
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Good man Tim! Im glad this is of benefit. By the end of your journey to SE we might have a few more such vids that we could compile into a meditation movie and get filthy rich by sellling them  emoticon emoticon
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 1:55 PM
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So i leaped up at recognizing that there is a whole category of head sensations, movements, space-generation and space-contraction, that essentially has nothing to do with the basic below-the-neck meditation pain in the ass. The head shit is on its own circuit a lot of the time, and a lot of the gymnastic's and contortions can sort of be reasonably hypothesized as the attempts of an invisible Watcher to make himself feel comfortable and secure. The guy apparently needs his space. He is always moving, looking for a workable angle on the action below. He likes to chart out trajectories, put spin on stuff, juggle. He does math, the Newtonian physics of intention pulses, and he appears to believe he has a handle on quantum gravity, mathematically at least. He is literally a pain in the skull, and above the eyes, and behind the eyes. A lot of the fireworks are him dancing as fast as he can to get traction on some solid ground again after he has finally walked out over the cliff and is hanging there in the air like Wile E. Coyote.

Badda Bing!

Recognition = realization.


Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:54 PM
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Badda Bing!

emoticon

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:59 PM
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April 14, 2020. Sit 15. 0:10:09

duller, sort of mercifully, after a light supper. Late day sesshin ass-ache easy to find. There is ass-ache. . . . There is dull ass-ache. . . . There is a mad controlling ghost with his own agenda wreaking havoc in my temples, jaw, and neck, and high on my skull. . . . There is ass-ache. . . 

I'm actually tired, after waking at around 1 a.m. this morning, sleepy-tired, and that is good as gold right now. Sleep during high energy periods is wonderful, and i take it where i find it.

Thanks, to all. Chris, you've got guts and nerve, thanks for riding it out this far. Papa-ji, fuck you, and the horse you rode in on. emoticon
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emoticon fuck you too Tim! Sweet dreams you noble warrior! 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 12:55 PM
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When I was a little kid, my manic aunt was the only one adult capable of playing along with my magickal thinking. I liked that. She was annoying when she insisted on tying together my socks, though. 

So, how does this work for you? Do you stay aware of a manic phase coming up until you are suddenly not aware anymore? Or do you stay aware throughout the development? Do you have medicines that can stop it? If so, are you taking them? Do you have that little voice that tells you that you really should take the medicines now and another voice that says that you can wait just a liiiiittle bit longer because this is the nice part? If so, which voice usually turns out to be right?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
When I was a little kid, my manic aunt was the only one adult capable of playing along with my magickal thinking. I liked that. She was annoying when she insisted on tying together my socks, though. 


Exactly. And I NEVER tie kids' socks together.


So, how does this work for you? Do you stay aware of a manic phase coming up until you are suddenly not aware anymore? Or do you stay aware throughout the development?


No, I'm aware of it, for the most part, all the way throughout the development. The problem is partly that it is so fascinatingly lucid and i have to share every little insight with everyone, in every nuance, with footnotes. The problem also partly is, of course, that sometimes, for the best of my own very good reasons and with utter lucidity inside of whatever movie i am in at the moment, i may take off all my clothes and walk down the middle of the highway playing chicken with approaching semis. I usually even remember the context, could tell you my whole chain of reasoning from whatever mad premise i began it with--- i am working along the Underground Railroad, I am one of the last survivors of a sun-scorched humanity sixty thousand years in the future, i am black, I am St. Francis--- even long afterward, but that is sort of useless in general and is usually even too edgy for stand-up comedy. I am sort of bulletproof and fearless, and do the reductio ad absurdum on every whacked out notion that sticks for a while.

Do you have medicines that can stop it? If so, are you taking them?

No, I am not on, nor does my psychiatrist think I need, any antipsychotics. I do take an antidepressant, which actually helps when most people are concerned, because their actual understanding is that drugs are the magic wand that, once waved, takes everybody off the hook. So when they ask if i'm taking my drugs, which have no effect whatsoever, either prophylactically and actively anti-psychotically, on mania, i just say Yes, religiously, and they nod, pleased that everything is covered by professionals and all's well. The drugs that can stop it--- Haldol, is the elephant-gun state of the art, i guess--- are usually administered by professionals upon my intake, while four other professionals hold me down.

It's been almost five years since my last crack-up and hospitalization, which was triggered in part by some ill-advised dope-smoking with a buddy, and in part by the traumatic end of a fifteen year relationship. Now I'm dope-free, and woman-less. I had a no nonsense red alert mania two years ago anyway, and no one here in my neighborhood ever knew it. I've actually gotten pretty good at it, by the standards of such a peculiar art, good and getting better all the time at not quite crossing the lines that by lucid maniac standards are TOTALLY ABSTRACT AND MAKE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER (you may be able to relate, on the lines stuff, from your own angle): when manic, i play it as scrupulously as possible by the book. Except here, apparently. Here I'm just a big loud nut job, more often than not. I rely on the jikijitsu, honestly, poor overworked guy.


Do you have that little voice that tells you that you really should take the medicines now and another voice that says that you can wait just a liiiiittle bit longer because this is the nice part? If so, which voice usually turns out to be right?

As I said, by the time medicines are on the table, it's way too late. I've hashed this through with my psychiatrist, during the height of the last real Big One. I had the whole psych staff on red alert, I was maxing out both their little depression-scale questionaires and their mania-scale questions, like 28 points out of 30 kind of stuff, when they lock you up somewhere around 18. I found this article in a psych journal and made copies for my doc--- it included a flow chart mapping out all the routes of various paths through severe mental illness. One of the routes, which i was insisting on at that point, was not shutting it down through medication, and the key point in that flow chart path was "Am I willing to accept the consequences of going unmedicated?" I said yes. Short of an involuntary hospitalization, there was nothing else he could do but give me the emergency number, the suicide hotline number, etc. It's the same for getting out, once they're locked you up for the mandatory interval: if you can convince a judge that you are not a danger to yourself or others, by law he has to release even if it is Against Medical Advice. I have no suicide attempts in my record, and have never harmed anyone during even the most outrageous episodes, never even came close, it was never an issue. And as it worked out, I was right, during that last big one, and able to walk the tightrope through without a fall, and without most people i knew ever realizing i was that crazed at all.


I am long long past any glamoriztion of the high of it, or any temptation to milk it for all it's worth and enjoy the right. I am pretty much across the board OCD-level-scrupulous on playing every interaction by the book until i'm sure of the person's sense of humor. I think I've got a pretty good view on it, as realistic as I can be and always erring toward the conservative, and the fear of God in me big time. Except for the occasional moderately temperatured exchange on certain internet forums, you really couldn't tell I AM EXPERIENCING A PERIOD OF UNNERVINGLY HIGH ENERGY.

Thank you for your interest. I do feel a real fellowship with you in some many ways. And people definitely treat me differently once they know I'm bipolar. It cramps my comedy style sometimes even when i'm technically Totally Fucking Depressed.

George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:03 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:

No, I'm aware of it, for the most part, all the way throughout the development. The problem is partly that it is so fascinatingly lucid and i have to share every little insight with everyone, in every nuance, with footnotes. The problem also partly is, of course, that sometimes, for the best of my own very good reasons and with utter lucidity inside of whatever movie i am in at the moment, i may take off all my clothes and walk down the middle of the highway playing chicken with approaching semis. I usually even remember the context, could tell you my whole chain of reasoning from whatever mad premise i began it with--- i am working along the Underground Railroad, I am one of the last survivors of a sun-scorched humanity sixty thousand years in the future, i am black, I am St. Francis--- even long afterward, but that is sort of useless in general and is usually even too edgy for stand-up comedy.


Hey Mate!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (Chris/Daniel please don't sue me) and say that nothing is too edgy for your log here on DhO (assuming you're not attacking anyone and you're following the 4th precept of course).

So I say go for it and keep typing until your fingers are bleeding if that's what you want to do. I'm appreciating the craziness much more than any semi driver will, even if I can't see you naked in my headlights.

Oh and I knew you were the black St Francis all along. Seriously, who do you think you were kidding with that photo on Amazon? You're going to have to do better than that!

Cheers
socks
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:12 PM
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agnostic:

Hey Mate!

Oh and I knew you were the black St Francis all along. Seriously, who do you think you were kidding with that photo on Amazon? You're going to have to do better than that!

Cheers

socks



Busted. Thanks for outing me, mate. emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 3:59 PM
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Thankyou for sharing! It sounds like I don't need to worry. You are very welcome to share every footnote with me, if you like. I find it interesting and I won't judge. I appreciate when people have things to say about life that I haven't already thought about myself, and as obnoxious as that sounds, it is actually not very common. 

I have a friend who built a very unique house while being manic and then sold it for a fortune when he was back to consensual reality and found the house a bit too extravagante for his taste, so I know that it is possible to navigate mania skillfully. I'm not easily shocked (I actually have quite a lot of friends who like to go around naked without being manic), but please stay away from the highway. I think the world would be rather boring without you in it. 

I can understand why you are reluctant with regard to haldol, even without glamorizing the high (sounds great that you are past that). I probably would be too. I have never been clinically manic, so that has never been on the agenda for me, thankfully. I can easily tap into other people's hypomania empathically, and I have had reoccurring depressions, so I have been wondering whether I have some form of bipolar variant too (it runs in the family, after all), but after reading about the side effects of medications, I decided to shut up about it and stick to the antidepressants. That has worked for such a long time now, and through so many traumas, that I'm not worried anymore. 

Yes, I can relate. Those lines really make no sense. People... I mean, they believe in boxes. Boxes that you can think outside of if lucky. There are no fucking boxes, for cryin' out loud. 

I already commented on the practice in my message. Oh well. I'll be following your reports. 

I feel a fellowship too. Once again, people... It must be tough for them, living with all that fear. 
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 1:53 PM
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Still working on what is sensation, what is "noticable," what is "namable". A lot of it has to do simply with the muscular-skeletal network's gives and takes--- one kind of what i called "movement" in the last post this time seemed to be clearly an awareness of a muscle or set of muscles relaxing, in prelude to a contraction that would cause the next sensation--- attention, following the movement, gets faked out, because the sensation generation from that relaxing movement contracting again is itself somewhere else entirely, where the contraction brings something to tension, so attention feels a "discontinuity," like "Hey, why are 'movement' and sensation out of whack?" They're not, of course, in this simple case: there is a false expectation, a hidden dukha-generating assumption resisting the simpler reality. Attention taken lightly enough is entirely capable of registering both the preliminary "movement" of impalpable relaxation, and the not entirely predictable sensation arising from the subsequent contraction, with getting its panties in a bunch or hollering at its teacher.

Great reporting!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:18 AM
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Chris Marti:
Ah, that's it! Thank you.

You may imagine how this goes - first, there is this sense perception, and then some kind of processing happens "in there," and then an attempt at defining and naming occurs.

emoticon

Ho ho ho whoa emoticon this is some hardcore SatiPa emoticon Yes agreed but I think this even to me is sometime not as clear depending on the stage and other psychological factors etc. 

I think for Tim might be good to ONLY (for now) make contact with the Object "there is Touch" "there is Warmth" "there is tingling" etc ... Just move on from one attention mark to the next. Insight will hit when ready.

If he comes to the point where such basic noting goes on once every second, then all you mentioned above will be seen easier. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:11 AM
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Have you ever tried to use the phrase "There is" ? 

Like when touching fingers touch the "There is touch", in case there is some tingling there "There is tingling vibration" There is thinking, There is seeing (if you are looking at the fingers). 

"There is" slows down the need to speed note and is more of a curious What is there? There iiiiiis ... pain (comprehending it's the ars and noticing unpleasant feel). 

I do agree with Chris to Stop if stuff is getting too roller coaster like. 

I suffered from Combat PTSD for decades and know how such shit can cause manic and depressive episodes. 

The one thing that really helped my manic paranoia was Ki-breathing as practiced by Aikido practitioners. That Paranoia (Fear) was so egging debilitating. I would on constant lookout in the house, in the park when going for walks, in the supermarket (here I would go into full panic attacks). 

I look at Ki-breathing as the Shamatha Aloud emoticon as it's very loud and one can hear it really well as well as feeling the sensations in the throat. 

After 6 months of this practice 30 min a day my decades long paranoia was no more. Sure mild paranoia and fear was still there but not in that manic way. 

If you ever consider doing this I can demo it for you via video. Btw, this was 1 year before I started Buddhist meditation. I doubt I would be able to handle that much paranoia in my Shamatha or Noting practice. 

Have a ponder. You know yourself better than we do. You know what and how much you can handle. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:40 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Have you ever tried to use the phrase "There is" ? 

Like when touching fingers touch the "There is touch", in case there is some tingling there "There is tingling vibration" There is thinking, There is seeing (if you are looking at the fingers). 

"There is" slows down the need to speed note and is more of a curious What is there? There iiiiiis ... pain (comprehending it's the ars and noticing unpleasant feel). 


i like that. I have no problem with the language, which I am determined to learn and use, and the basic technique of noting. You've had me right pretty much from the get-go, that my troubles come largely in pace, and pushing too hard. "There is" fire, when i push for speed.


I do agree with Chris to Stop if stuff is getting too roller coaster like. 

I agree, although my roller coaster range, at this point in my evolution, is pretty broad, and the real issue seems to be not scaring the shit out of my fellow riders. I mean, I fucking hate being locked up. I will do everything in my power to not have that happen, and if it does, oops, my bad, and a six-month period in hell to digest the latest lessons. But I sort of trust my gut at this point. This session, under Chris and you? Are you kidding me? I've been waiting for this my whole life.


I suffered from Combat PTSD for decades and know how such shit can cause manic and depressive episodes. 

I grew up a Marine brat, son of a career officer vet of Korea and Vietnam. He was cold-blooded as fuck about it all, and very very funny, but would still hit the ground at an unexpected firework going off. I saw an old buddy of his yank his chain once by hollering "Incoming!" and Dad actually started to go down, then caught himself and sort of looked at the guy as old combat veterans ca, like, "I love you, my brother, but do that again and I will fucking kill you."

The one thing that really helped my manic paranoia was Ki-breathing as practiced by Aikido practitioners. That Paranoia (Fear) was so egging debilitating. I would on constant lookout in the house, in the park when going for walks, in the supermarket (here I would go into full panic attacks).

After 6 months of this practice 30 min a day my decades long paranoia was no more. Sure mild paranoia and fear was still there but not in that manic way. 

If you ever consider doing this I can demo it for you via video. Btw, this was 1 year before I started Buddhist meditation. I doubt I would be able to handle that much paranoia in my Shamatha or Noting practice. 

I think whatever the fuck it is I've been doing has served a similar purpose, in bringing me in range of this session. I'm always going to be working AMA, meditatively. I trust you and Chris, and I hope you guys will be able to trust me. I'll shut it down on a moment's notice from either of you, at any point.

Have a ponder. You know yourself better than we do. You know what and how much you can handle. 


well, i don't want to scare anyone, but yeah, I do know myself better, and what and how much i can handle. I will try not to scare the shit out of you guys, or anyone else, but some lines I am unable to find until i've already crossed them. It's how a guy like me learns, if he survives. And i've survived long enough to find myself in the company of the wise, so i'm doing something right, with my learning curve. emoticon

George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:46 AM
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Tim Farrington:


some lines I am unable to find until i've already crossed them. It's how a guy like me learns, if he survives.


I think that's true of most of us.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:57 AM
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agnostic:
Tim Farrington:


some lines I am unable to find until i've already crossed them. It's how a guy like me learns, if he survives.


I think that's true of most of us.Yeah, but sometimes I am several miles past the line by the time the feedback registers. Feel free to keep an eye on me and give the occasional considered head's up, i would truly appreciate it.
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:01 AM
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Tim Farrington:
emoticon

I always thought of that as the lipstick on a pig face.

Good work Tim. I'm impressed that you can keep up with it all. Remember, you are the only expert on your experience that matters!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 7:55 AM
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agnostic:
Tim Farrington:
emoticon

I always thought of that as the lipstick on a pig face.

Good work Tim. I'm impressed that you can keep up with it all. Remember, you are the only expert on your experience that matters!
emoticon.

Thanks, mate. I'm glad found your way to this fiasco in the alleyway behind the Bar of Last Resort. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 2:24 PM
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Last sit, 0:11:01. I'm still being conservative on upping the time. Aware of the pressure, pressure, pressure I'm still exrting to come back to the thread every time, sometimes easing into texture, texture, texture, then flipping again. Feeling like the technique right now is the prow of a ship slicing through an ocean of gratitude (and pressure, pressure, texture, texture). There's so much to be said for the intangibles of the gift of a logos of technique from a master, it simplifies faith itself down to the iteration of the shub to the object. Feels very information theory-ish, as the manic mind somersaults, 1, 1, 1, waves of 0, 1, waves of 0, 1. May be encoding the universe, if i could transcribe it. That kind of shit. Oh, right, pressure, pressure, texture.

Deep deep gratutude during my walking break after this sit (aka, smoke break). Laughing at steering into the mania by using mania to power sesshin. There is true sobriety in the pulse of this practice right now.

Meanwhile, on my actual walk earlier, my neighbor, who was feeding the fish in our tiny common pool here, came up as I walked by and gave me two Washington Senators caps, because he's cleaning out his closet and had a million. I passed for sane during the exchange, always to the good. Extra points because he's a Trump guy, and we've both betrayed our news sources lately, talking about the pandemic, and we are both amused at not crashing and burning over any of the obvious things. He and his wife actually gave me a ride to the grocery store a few days ago, just swung by me at the bus stop like a magic carpet. I told him I could give him my bus fare (it's actually free right now, to keep the drivers from close contact during the lockdown) and he told me i couldn't afford his actual cab rate and left it at that. Gotta love the guy, and his wife, who has decided she doesn't give a shit what she dies of, she just ain't frettin'.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 9:05 AM
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What other thread ? You have resurrected at least a dozen of threads emoticon I'm giving up on following them all. I have a goldfish memory! 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 9:12 AM
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As far as practice time, my basic policy for the last decade has settled on the simple "as much as I can stand," and the study of what that means. When I began implementing that policy, I was doing 20 minutes, twice per morning, no matter how much it seemed to fuck up my day job as a supposed novelist (which was fucked up properly in its own right in any case, which was why the meditation had taken on such urgency, as the immediate and only response to some deep-ass dark night fear, dissolution, terror, dissolution, despair, dissolution . . . you can do the math there yourself). In the spirit of "as much as I can stand," I would add time when i hit the full allotment in any given session, and take time off in i couldn't stand the whole sit. In this way, sometimes in minute increments, sometimes in second increments, the two sessions, each with their own evolutionary temporal history by then, were both somewhere in the neighborhood of 79 minutes. Then i had a big breakdown, and came back to practice feeling i needed a third sit, so i broke the previous 79+79 minute total roughly into three equal parts, and restarted all the temporal odometers at 45 minutes each: 0:45:00, in my jargon and journal, and ditto the second sit, and ditto the third. and the next day, for instance, 0:45:01, 0:44:59, 0:44:59. Very ocd, but i needed the structure and the stats were fun, second nature, for a kid who had every RBI total and ERA in the major leagues memorized from the age of 5 through teenage. Also a delight to those who like graphs, and algorithmic play: data, baby, a timeline of development. Rene Descartes was so pleased. 

So state of the art these days, in its full absurd specificity, is 1:12:19, 0:58:58, and 0:43:22, all with a downward curve lately in this relatively energized state i'm in of late. and I can say pretty authoritatively that that is the state of the art on how much meditation i can stand.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 9:43 AM
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Could you log here some actual experiences during your sits? 

Like stiffness here, unpleasant there, vibrations here, concentration dull, restlessness, itching. 

I think thats what Chris Marti was asking. It's hard to really help with anything without these matter of fact experiences/details being presented. 

Sure increased sits can manifest in Mind&Body, A&P and Desire for Deliverance also in Re-observation but details are gold. 

I'm saying this just because you mentioned this being your meditation log. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/13/20 10:05 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Could you log here some actual experiences during your sits? 

Like stiffness here, unpleasant there, vibrations here, concentration dull, restlessness, itching. 

I think thats what Chris Marti was asking. It's hard to really help with anything without these matter of fact experiences/details being presented. 

Sure increased sits can manifest in Mind&Body, A&P and Desire for Deliverance also in Re-observation but details are gold. 

I'm saying this just because you mentioned this being your meditation log. 

Thanks to both you and Chris for taking an interest here. Noting, in vipassana terms, is slightly foreign to my basic approach in terms of inner vocalization; technique wise, all i'm verbalizing inwardly in my practice is a species of mantra, so that's the moving line that refreshes the radar screen for me. Having sat with you now, quite literally, in your noting-aloud practice, and having taken a shot at giving Chris a short stretch in my best effort at translation in noting language (state of the art, learning curve in progress), i will try to keep this kind of granular reporting in mind. As far as the practice log goes right now, it is multi-purpose, and today, as day 1, i have been attending more to broad strokes. But am settling in, and what fun. Thank you again. emoticon  (I forgot to thank Chris, I think, but he knows i love him.) (also noticed that he explicitly cleared your smileys, on your log. That's a load off my mind, as every time I abused him about his smiley prejudice, in your defense, I risked a yellow card or worse from the fucking jikijitsu here.)
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Smiling Stone, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 5:14 PM
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Hey Tim,
I just wanted to give you a big up for your practice and wish you the best.
I stopped at 11.06 because it's late already (and you did not slow down on the writing!) but you are stirring my interest in noting (as well as the crazy videos of Papa Che), which I did not think was possible! It seems I might need some more investigation myself to keep the ball rolling...
You are a little fairy with big boots
Goodluck

with metta
smiling stone
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:28 AM
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Smiling Stone:
Hey Tim,
I just wanted to give you a big up for your practice and wish you the best.

with metta
smiling stone
Hey Stoner, you insentient being who will force me to remain in the Bar of Last Resort until all beings, sentient, insentient, and other, are saved, apparently, since i am a being too and am either the toughest case or insalvageable. I am glad to know you're so fucked that you may be in for the whole horrific binge, as we both arrived to the party because of our alcoholism and now find ourselves unwilling to leave because of our alcoholism. This is the heart of the Bodhisattva "vow," as i see it. The B Vow is sometimes just a way for lightweights to think of themselves as compassionate. You and i, as true hardcore drunks, know better. We will drink and smoke and tell dirty jokes here until they shut the place down because, yes, because we just fucking love to be drunk, and lung-scorched, and laughing. Next round's on me, Wittgenstein (Smiling, meet Ludwig, one of our best bartenders), and i'll have what my friend's having.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:46 AM
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Smiling Stone:

I stopped at 11.06 because it's late already (and you did not slow down on the writing!) but you are stirring my interest in noting (as well as the crazy videos of Papa Che), which I did not think was possible! It seems I might need some more investigation myself to keep the ball rolling...

with metta
smiling stone
 Stirring interest in the crazy videos of Papa Che justifies the existence of this otherwise spectacularly ugly thread. I would offer a caveat from my own experience as a genuine babe in the woods of noting. I went through one of his normal-speed (or maybe it is teaching speed, and off camera he is actually noting aloud a billion times a second, which accounts for that strange buzz i hear sometimes in my left ear during sits)--- whatever, 5-10 notings per second, which was actually fine, wonderful in fact, as a literal guided meditation for me, attending to Pops as the meditation object and letting echos ripples lag time etc be the rest. This is i think what most of his video work is, from what i understand and have seen so far,

this is his video lg thread:  https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/19872769

and this is the first one i checked out

https://youtu.be/fcoN5atRTOI 

But then i tried to note at that pace on my own, in sesshin under Chris Marti here, and just fucking cracked the fuck up and basically threw a tantrum for the next five meditation sessions on sesshin in the wee fucking hours of the night, until it had gotten me into some genuine spiritual emergency, meditation-related-difficulties territory. Since I knew Chris was alsleep in some time zone west of me, and that Papa Che was on Euro-time and likely awake, and had told me to call anytime during the sesshin, that he had my back, i made a desperate radio post to Papa Che, who replied promptly and said, well, you fucking idiot, slow the fuck down, what's your fucking rush here, note once in your precious little ten minute manic meditation interval, whatever. (or something like that, it all blurs in my mind, you know, i'm a bit wound up, bipolarly. right now) Which duly applied, proved the first turning point. My actual toddler noting speed appears to be one :notable" or "namable" every through seconds or so. I mentioned this and papa-ji promptly made

a beautiful video at a compassionate beginners speed--- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA  

 

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 4:02 AM
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When Chris had me do that exercise, he told me that I shouldn't mix it with noting at all, because everything that could be noted was just a distraction. 

I have that buzz in my right ear, when the frequency is too low for the nada sound to appear, so if it is indeed Papa Che's noting that causes it, we should be able to triangulate the position of his energy body. emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:38 AM
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
When Chris had me do that exercise, he told me that I shouldn't mix it with noting at all, because everything that could be noted was just a distraction. 


Yeah Chris said the same thing to me, but I couldn't help trying one of Papa-ji's videos, like a kindergarten sneaking into a post-graduate seminar. I was way the fuck out of my depth, and coughed water for 12 hours after, which confirmed most of Chris's worst fears about working with me at all, since he had done everything he could to keep me out of that fucking water over my head in the first place.

Papa=ji, on the other hand, is the soft cop, and is perfectly happy if i drown. emoticon


I have that buzz in my right ear, when the frequency is too low for the nada sound to appear, so if it is indeed Papa Che's noting that causes it, we should be able to triangulate the position of his energy body. 

emoticon

good. i suspect he is doing some kind of multi-location siddhi sometimes, too, or some quantum twist-of-time siddhi, or both, or something i can't even "note" or "name" yet, so having some hard data on temporal-spatial coordinates will come in handy, when i either bust his for showing off his siddhis or write the best fucking time-travel novel every, by stealing one strand from his brown sufi cloak.

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 9:29 AM
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April 15, 2020, day 3 of the pre-noting sesshin

sit 2.  0:00:58

Yes, I broke the one minute barrier in my striving for hard-ass, practice oriented, pedal-to-the-metal meditation max-out. I was shooting for the 0:09:01 i still had left on my first timer setting of the day, so i just unpaused the timer there and got to work: the touch point of my two thumbs presented itself easily and generously, mild and easy, and there was in-breath, mild and easy, there was thumbs, there was thought of memorizing my thumb-prints and making a mandala out of the pattern, there was thumbs, twisting minutely again each other, in an apparent attempt by the HIDDEN CONTROL FREAK to keep in the game, there was breath, out breath, concluding, there was quiet (another thing i want to work into my "notable/nameable phenomenological vocabulary, by find the translation for what i mean by it somehow in established noting usage) . . .

There WAS REALIZATION THAT MY PRACTICE LOG HAS BECOME A REAL-TIME CHRONICLE OF A RELATIVELY LUCID DESCENT INTO CLINICAL PSYCHOSIS.

that would be at the 58 second mark. Went out and did the "walking meditation" part of this round of sesshin, i.e., had a cigarette.
The previous highwater mark in real-time transcripts of psychosis was a notebook full of short poems i scrawled while wandering through Green Valley Arizona and its surrounding shrines and deserts for several days back in the 1990s. There ended up being about 100 poems in that notebook, which i purchased with my last dollars at a drug store in Green Valley, with a Really Nice pen, specifically for that purpose. I lost the pen more or less immediately, and one sub-thread through the entire rest of the sequence was somehow getting my hands on the next pen by the grace of God. But the notebook was my meditation object, my only sensate point of contact with earth as we perceive and experience it. I got locked up, back home in San Francisco, almost as soon as i got off the plane, which was a natural conclusion to the poetic sequence. Years later, i found the notebook somewhere and read through it and remembered every moment in lucid technicolor, and thought it was, in retrospect, a timeless work of genius a mere 500 yars or so ahead of its time. With the 500 years in mind, i typed all the poems onto my computer and put the notebook back where it had come from, for the benefit of future archeologists and others in search of undiscovered works of unrecognized genius. The notebook itself was lost along the way two or three moves ago, but somehow the computer file limped, snuck, lucked, and otherwise slipped through any number of vanishingly unlikely circumstantial needle-eyes, through several computers, until i came across it here during the depths of a depression four years ago so deep that 500 years in hell's infernal obscurity seemed easy, a step up. I forget what the number of poems was, aside from it being 100 plus-or-minus a couple, so i typeset the sequence and either split one or two, or combined one or two, for an even hundred poems. Think Thomas Traherne's mystical "Centuries," in the old time genre of 100 bits of something for the edification of something else. Then i found a painting on the internet that was perfect for a cover, corresponded long enough with the artist for him to realize i was insane and without financial resources, at which he freely conceded me the right to reproduce a reproduction of a photo of the painting for my cover art at no charge, instead of thousands of dollars. (Maybe that is why that one book of mine is worth $900-something, Linda--- it's probably the cover art).
Then i self-published the whole thing through Amazon, wrote the first review as the author explicitly telling all my previous readers to not buy the book, because it was fucking nuts, and left it at that, my dharma as both a poet and an insane person wholly fulfilled.

This thread is LIKE THAT, is what i'm saying.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 4:32 AM
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April 15, 2020. Pre-beginners' sesshin on leading gently into noting practice, taught by Chris Marti, day 3.
sit 1, 00:01:09

Tha's right, a minute and nine second sit. I remember reading somewhere in MCBT1 (and so it's in 2 as well, of course, unless i was right and he decided it was bullshit, but if he decided it was bullshit and took it out, i would now say that he should put it back in since it happened to me i think but i'm manic you know so who knows)

let begin again, Marti Rosh-san, to explain the brevity of my first sit this morning as best i can, with reference to scripture. The Daniel One mentions somewhere in the vast sacred lore that some of his best meditations were not the multi-hour grinding through relentles to vast explosions kind of thing we picture, the Buddha sitting down under the Bodhi tree after his first glass of milk after years of malnutrition and on a lactate-induced momentary high vowing to sit there until the job was done, Bodhidharma sitting in front of a wall on his way to bring the dharma to china, cutting off his eyelids so that he could stare fixedly at it for eight years, that kind of sit. Rather, they were a minutes, or a few minutes at most, snatched somewhere somehow--- "and now, under conditions that seem unpropitious," as T. S. Eliot said--- "("But perhaps neither gain nor Loss. For us, there is only the trying.")--- anyway, short ones can be good too, is what he was saying. And i remember thinking, bullshit, you fuck, you're a fucking prodigy, fuck you. A minute or two indeed. Fuck you, seriously fuck fuck you you, for fucking with my head.

But now I know he was right. Ooops, my bad, Sri Arahant-san.

So I sat down after a marvelous good night's sleep, very un-mania-like and so heartening, partly of course because Roshi-san's relentless sesshin pressure has left me exhausted long since and i feel like a spent pile of sore-assed rags. I began thinking status quo, using the literal and obvious pain in my, uh, first chakra region as my meditation. But about one breath in, after my first note or note, i thought of Papa's Che's Mercy Video on noting, where by the weirdest coincidence (see what i did there?), he described a mild but clear variation on the first technique that Chris suggested for me this time around
Chris
I'm thinking here that you choose an object that's pretty obvious to you. I used to
put my hands together and focus on one place where they were touching. If you
do this for ten or fifteen minutes, and you watch that object - the sensation
of your two hands touching - what do you observe about that one thing? And
yes, there will be other things that interfere with this exercise - other
thoughts, distractions, and so on. When those happen, just realize it and come
back to your focus on the object being created when your hands touch.
I actually started with a rosary medallion held between my thums and index fingers, and used that for a while , trying trying 
Chris:
The goal of this exercise is to observe the arising and the passing away of the
object you're observing. So we're looking to see if we can identifiy the steps
in that process. There is a sensation first. You can feel that. It has an
obvious touching-sense to it, and an immediacy. It's tangible, right? But that's just
the start of a process. So, for example, how do you know what it is that's
touching? What is touching ", what? How do you know? This doesn't come easy for people, so take your time... and watch,
Just watch. Watching is all you have to do.
after various, uh, theatrics, i eventually found it best to settle on (let's just speak plainly here, it's early in a long day) my ass, my easiest meditation object. That which offered itself freely and generously to my attention, effortlessly, was the throb in my ass peculiar to my meditative asana, in a chair. 

There is an old Marine Corps phrase, learned from my father, before i could stand up, around the time i began to speak in many of the seven words George Carlin says you can't say on television (of course they say them all now, somewhere)--- anyway, from my Marine Corps green childhood, i was early on aware of the phrase, "He couldn't find his ass with a ten-man working party," usually applied to incompent officers of a high rank. I am here to say that i am not that guy. With a working party of 2, and sometimes more, i have indeed during this sesshin been able to intermittently locate my ass, and to note its sensate condition. 

All this being prelude: during Papa-ji's video for Real Slow Noting, i listened, eyes closed, more and more aroused by his mellifluous tones, but generally holding it all together, and at some point, with that early practice first suggested by Chris to me, the points ofmeeting fingers/thumbs, he went in his own noting aloud to his own thumbs, which were together in his lap in what i think of as a classic zen hand position, left hand under, cupping right hand over, both up-faced, thumbs gently touching. So Papa starts noting thumb stuff, and by golly, I'm already in that exact same mudra myself and don't even have to open my eyes to see what the fuck he's talking about.

Soooooooo, all this by way of saying that at about one minutes and eight seconds into my first sit this morning , a couple of dance steps with my asshole, I realized 1) i had actually felt the thumb-touch yesterday, on a contact noting high from Papa-ji; 2) THAT WAS THE LITERAL FIRST THING CHRIS HAD SUGGESTED TO ME, and i had already gone through several negotiations, rosary first, because i was basically throwing all the rest of my evolutionary history as a Christian condition into the abyss of flame that is heretic hell, then pain-in-ass as obect, because the finger-touch was sort of drowned out by that anyway for me. and 3) that, since the mudra i'd been in with papa-ji is my basic one that i would only change at the siggestion of my esteemed teacher, and even then under protest, screaming and kicking, anyway, since i was by habit as it were sitting there with my Papa-ji educated thumbs and hands arranged just so, that i could BEGIN RIGHT WHERE CHRIS FUCKING MARTI HAD SUGGESTED I BEGIN IN THE FIRST PLACE!

At one minute and nine seconds into my 1st sit of the day, and i leaped up and ran outside for a cigarette, blown away by the fruits of the day's long meditations already.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 4:41 AM
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And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:08 AM
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 

Me too if I don't relax a bit and slow down. One really gets appreciative of stages unfolding as in some there is naturally more speed and in some more slow curious wonder and in some just slow chilled note only on the outbreath but many more silent Noticings on inbreath etc ...
One becomes master of the ever changing mind. My mind that is. 

I like how Shinzen talks about it. If there is a feeling one is going uphill then put the car back into the 1st Gear, slow but steady. The engine can take this. Inevitabelly the steepness will be no more and the terrain is more flat, goes into 2nd gear or higher. Again goes uphill into 1st gear. 

This stuff is not elitist nor should it be. This is about being lost in some terrain and it's foggy, then clear, then hot, then chilled, the up hill then flat then downhill etc ... You can not impress anyone there!!! All you can do is keep navigating the bloody terrain (yes, yes Timi know I forgot to mention it can be muddy too. In this case you get out of the car and push it out of the mud and resume 1st Gear). 

BTW, just for those taking Tim's words (his humor) too seriously I AM NO teacher or some -ji thing. Just another sharer of Dhamma-related stuff from my own experience which might totally not suit you. You might also find my overly confident appearance annoying. I can't do anything about that emoticon I still love though emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:47 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 

Me too if I don't relax a bit and slow down. One really gets appreciative of stages unfolding as in some there is naturally more speed and in some more slow curious wonder and in some just slow chilled note only on the outbreath but many more silent Noticings on inbreath etc ...
One becomes master of the ever changing mind. My mind that is. 

I like how Shinzen talks about it. If there is a feeling one is going uphill then put the car back into the 1st Gear, slow but steady. The engine can take this. Inevitabelly the steepness will be no more and the terrain is more flat, goes into 2nd gear or higher. Again goes uphill into 1st gear. 

This stuff is not elitist nor should it be. This is about being lost in some terrain and it's foggy, then clear, then hot, then chilled, the up hill then flat then downhill etc ... You can not impress anyone there!!! All you can do is keep navigating the bloody terrain (yes, yes Timi know I forgot to mention it can be muddy too. In this case you get out of the car and push it out of the mud and resume 1st Gear). 


Oh, THAT exhasting exercise!

BTW, just for those taking Tim's words (his humor) too seriously . . 

For shit's sake, Papa Che, who the fuck, based on the evidence immediately available to the first noting of the easiest obvious sensation offering itself like an opening flower to the attentive, who, i say, could possibly take my words (my "humor") seriously?

I think the Dharma Overground could be said to be a heartless community indeed, if people didn't start coming out of the woodwork from every direction, if some innocent person for the briefest moment takes my shit seriously. It is by the treatment of its most vulnerable that a community is judged. Orphans, widows, and people taking Tim seriously all fall into that category.

 nnn

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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 6:37 AM
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Tom, congrats on a great morning with the little girl ( OMG, holy shit, it's really hard to type that without either wanting to call the authorities or bawl my eyes out 'cause of the poignancy).

Anyway, I'm not a teacher. I don't want that kind of, uh, responsibility. I just wanted to help based on the topic's original post. I don't know yet if what I suggested to you is helping, but I do think it will if you give it some time and don't get too distracted. You're doing well with it as far as I can tell, but it's only been a few days. I hope you will take it easy, not try to do this all in a short period of time, and not to have expectations beyond just knowing this one object really well, whether it's the one I first described and you just discovered, or your ass.

This practice, I hope, is more like that walk you took with Hartley, not a marathon, and certainly not a sprint.

Finally, if this exercise is causing any kind of problem at all, STOP
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:45 AM
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Chris Marti:


Anyway, I'm not a teacher. I don't want that kind of, uh, responsibility. I just wanted to help based on the topic's original post. I don't know yet if what I suggested to you is helping, but I do think it will if you give it some time and don't get too distracted. You're doing well with it as far as I can tell, but it's only been a few days. 
 well, fine. i'll stop yanking your chain with humorous guru exaltations. I really thought you had a better sense of humor than that, but i will treat you henceforth as the Joe Blow guy with a bit of vipassana [truly foul invective and name-calling deleted, as per DhO forum guidelines] that is your preferred manner of address between friends.

Like so: Thank you, Chris, sir, my dear friend, for the tip on a seed of pre-noting technique, which i intend to employ in my practice with all my heart in a fashion exceeding the standards for gentleness, curiousity, and pure fascinated investigative interest that both you and our mutual friend, Papa Che, have suggested i bring to my practice at this delicate time. All you have to do is keep an eye on me, and shut me down here on DhO if you feel it is your duty to do it here for the good of me, and all.

rather than: yeah, fine,
i'll bow to the seed of this technique then, and shower my gratitude on that, and [ad hominem attack deleted, per DhO forum guidelines] [truly foul invective and name-calling deleted, as per DhO forum guidelines]. If you want to be ungrateful for my gratitude, that's your problem, not mine, you [truly foul invective and name-calling deleted, including things we were unable to find in any dictionaries but were clearly abusive, as per DhO forum guidelines].


I hope you will take it easy, not try to do this all in a short period of time, and not to have expectations beyond just knowing this one object really well, whether it's the one I first described and you just discovered, or your ass.

Easy peasy. Jesus, man, my last sit was 58 seconds.


This practice, I hope, is more like that walk you took with Hartley, not a marathon, and certainly not a sprint.

 I'm not even sure it's like that walk with Hartley, lol. I'm just going to get banned from DhO, strolling here. Turns out i could get arrested, for walks like that with Harley.

Smooch, Chris. Thank you.


Finally, if this exercise is causing any kind of problem at all,

STOP

 I will certainly take that under advisement, before i ignore it. Thank God you're not my teacher, or my momma, or my psychiatrist, because it has broken my heart in the past to tell all of those kinds of people and more to fuck off, i'm meditating anyway, AMA all the way, Against Medical, Maternal, and otherwise well-Meaning Advice. With you or without you, it don't matter to me. If you can't handle that, beloved friend, stay clear. And kick me out of the place if you see fit, at any time. I won't raise a squawk, i'll go so quietly you'll suspect something happened in the Formless realms.
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:55 AM
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Easy peasy. Jesus, man, my last sit was 58 seconds.

One time I went outside to sit and hit my head on a new potted plant my wife had hung on the front porch. Less than five seconds. Very fruitful, too. I'm not going to worry about you. You are, as they say, your own man. I'm just cheering from the sideline.

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:58 AM
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Chris Marti:
Easy peasy. Jesus, man, my last sit was 58 seconds.

One time I went outside to sit and hit my head on a new potted plant my wife had hung on the front porch. Less than five seconds. Very fruitful, too. I'm not going to worry about you. You are, as they say, your own man. I'm just cheering from the sideline.


I thought i could not love you more, and i just did. Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:00 AM
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Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?

Only when it involves animals.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:08 AM
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Chris Marti:
Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?

Only when it involves animals.

Linda, could i ask for a second opinion here? Or possibly a great riff on animals, love, and uh, the dharma?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 1:42 PM
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Tim Farrington:
Chris Marti:
Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?

Only when it involves animals.

Linda, could i ask for a second opinion here? Or possibly a great riff on animals, love, and uh, the dharma?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you just got a sexual invite. Luckily I know better. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:06 AM
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Tim Farrington:
Chris Marti:
Easy peasy. Jesus, man, my last sit was 58 seconds.

One time I went outside to sit and hit my head on a new potted plant my wife had hung on the front porch. Less than five seconds. Very fruitful, too. I'm not going to worry about you. You are, as they say, your own man. I'm just cheering from the sideline.


I thought i could not love you more, and i just did. Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?

oh by the way, Mr. Marti, layman, i noticed that you one-upped me bad. "Less than five seconds"! I'm a fucking beginner, i NEED THE WHOLE  58 SECONDS, you revved up maniacal [extremely foul, generally incoherent string of truly loathsome abuse deleted, as per DhO guidelines]. I'd fuckin explode, my head would quite metaphorically EXPLODE, if i aspired to go 57, much less 5. Jesus, man, have mercy on a guy, here. I'm insane, remember? I can't push like that, OR I WILL LOSE IT.

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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:37 AM
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Tim Farrington:
Chris Marti:
Easy peasy. Jesus, man, my last sit was 58 seconds.

One time I went outside to sit and hit my head on a new potted plant my wife had hung on the front porch. Less than five seconds. Very fruitful, too. I'm not going to worry about you. You are, as they say, your own man. I'm just cheering from the sideline.


I thought i could not love you more, and i just did. Does that violate DhO speech guidelines?
April 15, 2020, day 3 of my sesshin in pre-rudimentary pre-noting pre-vipassana technique, guided only by God.

St John of the Cross, pray for me.

On that glad night
In secret, for no one saw me.
Nor did i look at anything,
With no other light or guide
Than the One that burned in my heart . . .
(The Dark Night, stanza 3)

sit #3. 0:00:03.

That's right three seconds. Knock your head on that, Marti, you [stupendously long harangue and abusive invective stream of really quite astonishing creativity and style, but unfortunately ahead of its time even in obscene, profane literary terms, and therefore deleted, with much regret, as per DhO forum guidelines] 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:34 PM
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Tim Farrington:
Papa Che Dusko:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 

Me too if I don't relax a bit and slow down. One really gets appreciative of stages unfolding as in some there is naturally more speed and in some more slow curious wonder and in some just slow chilled note only on the outbreath but many more silent Noticings on inbreath etc ...
One becomes master of the ever changing mind. My mind that is. 

I like how Shinzen talks about it. If there is a feeling one is going uphill then put the car back into the 1st Gear, slow but steady. The engine can take this. Inevitabelly the steepness will be no more and the terrain is more flat, goes into 2nd gear or higher. Again goes uphill into 1st gear. 

This stuff is not elitist nor should it be. This is about being lost in some terrain and it's foggy, then clear, then hot, then chilled, the up hill then flat then downhill etc ... You can not impress anyone there!!! All you can do is keep navigating the bloody terrain (yes, yes Timi know I forgot to mention it can be muddy too. In this case you get out of the car and push it out of the mud and resume 1st Gear). 


Oh, THAT exhasting exercise!



No, actually, you got it right. I was referring to the fingers touching exercise.

I couldn't help but doing some noting combined with it, though, in the beginning, because there were so many distractions to note. Chris was firmer with me, though, and insisted that I ignore distractions instead of noting them. I wasn't manic, so he was totally right. I was just avoiding the task. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:47 AM
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Papa Che Actual, this is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1. I am in deep doo-doo. Do you copy? Over.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:10 AM
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Tim Farrington:
Papa Che Actual, this is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1. I am in deep doo-doo. Do you copy? Over.

Im drowning under a huge mountain of LEGO!!! I'm minding my 4 yo boy and he insists I build countless of shapes with these plastic colorful bricks!!! Arghh! 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:30 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Tim Farrington:
Papa Che Actual, this is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 1. I am in deep doo-doo. Do you copy? Over.

Im drowning under a huge mountain of LEGO!!! I'm minding my 4 yo boy and he insists I build countless of shapes with these plastic colorful bricks!!! Arghh! 

Yeah, well, we've all got our problems, buddy, i'm being stalked by a four year old girl and in danger of being jailed because of other people's dirty minds, not to mention flaming flagrant psychosis. I've moved to the shallow end of the pool, on the doo-doo, if my reading of Chris Fucking Marti is as correct. All I need from you is to know whether you think it is all as okay as i think it is. I will probably ignore you, if you disagree, but i like to keep track of these things. then you can drown, for all i care, in the ocean of bliss that is a four year old and legos.
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T, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:52 AM
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Everything going on in this log is really fantastic. There is so much material on so many dimensions, that is potentially helpful to so many. 

May many more stumble into the.. what do you call it...? The Last Resort Bar...? - anyway, may many more enter and get something fruitful from all of these discussions transpiring amongst...no one. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:29 AM
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 
It was amazing, sleeping like that last night. Chris's technique apparently works on manic bullelephants in china shops, with one touch, an occasionally tail-yank by Papa-ji. I am so far beyond the point where the police have usually caught up with me three times, and let me go because of my natural charm, or as the immortal Willie Nelson put is, speaking of the federales in his classic "Pancho and Lefty," out of kindness, I suppose. On my psychotic scale, thought-speed, content, and range-wise, i am at the point where the next time the cops run me down, it's lockup for me. We discussed the lucidity of these breaks for me earlier. I way way too fucking lucid, and it is only the fear of God, and not wanting to ruin Chris's reputation as a teacher by going literal locked-up crazy under his sesshin guidance, that gives me heart. I am under hut arrest, and only speaking to other people like neighbors when necessary and in short three words phrases of Japanese formality and politeness straight off my crib notes from "How to Be Nice Briefly and Without Scaring Anyone," which this morning i had tattooed onto the palm of my hand for easy reference.

One twist in my psychodrama that i think you will appreciate. Yesterday late afternoon, Hartley, my four year old friend from down the street that i played with instead of meditating yesterday morning (don't tell Chris, i think he missed that post, the advanatage of overwhelming the system the way i do when manic), gave a little knock on my door and asked if i wanted to come out and play some more. (I was literally just finishing up a post addressed to you, by the way, by that's manic synchronicity for you, it's just one more reason psychoses spiral down, seeing shit like that everywhere), so i told her to hold on a sec, had to tell her when she asked if she could come in that i thought it would be best if she just stood there outside a waited a second, and, leaving the door open to help her wait, i hit send or whatever, and stepped outside. I asked her if her dad, a couple hundred yards down the road, knew she was coming to see me, and she said yes. This turned out to be a lie, as events ensued, but based on that we went and played, picking up where we had left off in this sort of role-playing thing she had eased us into that morning, where she was the Mommy and I was the Daddy and this little plus golf club was out child "Hartley." 

Pause for heartbreak here, by the way. Her parents, the dad, Tony Bob (really, welcome to the American South), who is a musician of great local fame with a huge following who pays the bills doing carpentry, and the mother, who is one of those wise, sly, funny, smart woman who would have given me at a great deal of wonderful trouble at pretty much any step of the way along my scandal-ridden path, are recently divorced. The mom is in Newport News, 20 minutes down the highway, and they trade off time with Hartley. Tony Bob is living in a kind of tent-hut and is in deep shit financially, a starving artist trying to squeak by and just do his music. I am living in a hut on wheels, and am in deep shit financially, a starving artist just trying to get by and get my stories told, presently dark-nighted into being a starving meditative beggar. So he and I, who have known each other four years now, are cool. This sudden independent pro-activeness on the part of Hartley is sudden; I've always just goofed with her affectionately, as adults do, gotten the occasional smile out of her, and been happy with that.

I won't spend what could be a novel-length amount of words here on precisely why the role playing game was just heart-crushingly poignant to the point of being unbearable, in all its heart-breaking details, and why it was also the best afternoon of my life for an hour there, playing hooky again on the sesshin. Suffice it to say that at some point Tony Bob showed up at the playground, where we were feeding the kids their breakfast of freshed baked banana strawberry mango cake. The another friend in the neighborhood had spotted, from a distance, Hartley on the playground with a "strange old man," and called Tony Bob. Also, the playground is legally closed during the present situation, which i had not known. Tony Bob and I laughed about it, once he realized that i was the strange old man (we've both known that all along) and we all walked home together. i didn't either justify myself to him, aside for playing with Hartley on a technically closed playground in my ignorance, and he didn't say anything to me about playing with his precious daughter on a technically closed playground WITHOUT HIS FUCKING PERMISSION. (in our morning session, when Hartley had wanted to go to the playground, which is out of sight of Tony Bob's place, I had taken her to ask him first). Nor did i bust Hartley for telling me she HAD his permission. I gave her the slide, since Tony Bob was apparently inclined to give me the slide, this once. But her credibility is shit with me right now.

And during a fucking mania!!!!! Are you fucking kidding me?????? I'm doing everything i can to keep the neighbors from calling the cops, and this little girl is leading me out into a giant public theatrical production that apparently, from the proper distance, to some concerned and well-meaning and honorable people looking out for the vulnerable in the neighborhood, looks just like a strange dirty old man and a four year old in grave danger?

Do you know what this says to me, my comrade-with-a-truly-unnerving-capacity-to-hear-about-my-pschotic-side with true interest and sympathy? I'll tell you flat out: it means i have to shave. I've let my beard grow in, mostly gray, during the lockdown, taking the whole thing as a razor holiday, but clearly that must change. If I'm going to end up locked up as a manic pervert and a danger to the youth, i want the initial 911 call transcript to have a change to read "a strange MAN." Or at least, "a late-middle-aged pervert." You know, something i can live with, something to see me through all that practice behind bars, practicing my hack on the Prisoners' Dilemma.
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Smiling Stone, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:41 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:41 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 341 Join Date: 5/10/16 Recent Posts
Hey Tim,
Slow noting, fast typing!
I am getting enlightened (against my Bodhisattva will) just by getting in the flow of your prose... I hope so because I (try to) catch up during the time alloted to my formal meditation...
I love your one minute meditation bursts. takes about five to read it. That's the image I have of James Joyce, although I never read it...
I gather that, if we don't hear from you for more than six hours, we should send the dho's chopper cruising above the highway...
Say hi to Hartley
Shave

metta
smiling stone
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:25 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:25 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 7134 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Tim Farrington:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
And I though I was exhausted by that exercise. 
It was amazing, sleeping like that last night. Chris's technique apparently works on manic bullelephants in china shops, with one touch, an occasionally tail-yank by Papa-ji. I am so far beyond the point where the police have usually caught up with me three times, and let me go because of my natural charm, or as the immortal Willie Nelson put is, speaking of the federales in his classic "Pancho and Lefty," out of kindness, I suppose. On my psychotic scale, thought-speed, content, and range-wise, i am at the point where the next time the cops run me down, it's lockup for me. We discussed the lucidity of these breaks for me earlier. I way way too fucking lucid, and it is only the fear of God, and not wanting to ruin Chris's reputation as a teacher by going literal locked-up crazy under his sesshin guidance, that gives me heart. I am under hut arrest, and only speaking to other people like neighbors when necessary and in short three words phrases of Japanese formality and politeness straight off my crib notes from "How to Be Nice Briefly and Without Scaring Anyone," which this morning i had tattooed onto the palm of my hand for easy reference.

One twist in my psychodrama that i think you will appreciate. Yesterday late afternoon, Hartley, my four year old friend from down the street that i played with instead of meditating yesterday morning (don't tell Chris, i think he missed that post, the advanatage of overwhelming the system the way i do when manic), gave a little knock on my door and asked if i wanted to come out and play some more. (I was literally just finishing up a post addressed to you, by the way, by that's manic synchronicity for you, it's just one more reason psychoses spiral down, seeing shit like that everywhere), so i told her to hold on a sec, had to tell her when she asked if she could come in that i thought it would be best if she just stood there outside a waited a second, and, leaving the door open to help her wait, i hit send or whatever, and stepped outside. I asked her if her dad, a couple hundred yards down the road, knew she was coming to see me, and she said yes. This turned out to be a lie, as events ensued, but based on that we went and played, picking up where we had left off in this sort of role-playing thing she had eased us into that morning, where she was the Mommy and I was the Daddy and this little plus golf club was out child "Hartley." 

Pause for heartbreak here, by the way. Her parents, the dad, Tony Bob (really, welcome to the American South), who is a musician of great local fame with a huge following who pays the bills doing carpentry, and the mother, who is one of those wise, sly, funny, smart woman who would have given me at a great deal of wonderful trouble at pretty much any step of the way along my scandal-ridden path, are recently divorced. The mom is in Newport News, 20 minutes down the highway, and they trade off time with Hartley. Tony Bob is living in a kind of tent-hut and is in deep shit financially, a starving artist trying to squeak by and just do his music. I am living in a hut on wheels, and am in deep shit financially, a starving artist just trying to get by and get my stories told, presently dark-nighted into being a starving meditative beggar. So he and I, who have known each other four years now, are cool. This sudden independent pro-activeness on the part of Hartley is sudden; I've always just goofed with her affectionately, as adults do, gotten the occasional smile out of her, and been happy with that.

I won't spend what could be a novel-length amount of words here on precisely why the role playing game was just heart-crushingly poignant to the point of being unbearable, in all its heart-breaking details, and why it was also the best afternoon of my life for an hour there, playing hooky again on the sesshin. Suffice it to say that at some point Tony Bob showed up at the playground, where we were feeding the kids their breakfast of freshed baked banana strawberry mango cake. The another friend in the neighborhood had spotted, from a distance, Hartley on the playground with a "strange old man," and called Tony Bob. Also, the playground is legally closed during the present situation, which i had not known. Tony Bob and I laughed about it, once he realized that i was the strange old man (we've both known that all along) and we all walked home together. i didn't either justify myself to him, aside for playing with Hartley on a technically closed playground in my ignorance, and he didn't say anything to me about playing with his precious daughter on a technically closed playground WITHOUT HIS FUCKING PERMISSION. (in our morning session, when Hartley had wanted to go to the playground, which is out of sight of Tony Bob's place, I had taken her to ask him first). Nor did i bust Hartley for telling me she HAD his permission. I gave her the slide, since Tony Bob was apparently inclined to give me the slide, this once. But her credibility is shit with me right now.

And during a fucking mania!!!!! Are you fucking kidding me?????? I'm doing everything i can to keep the neighbors from calling the cops, and this little girl is leading me out into a giant public theatrical production that apparently, from the proper distance, to some concerned and well-meaning and honorable people looking out for the vulnerable in the neighborhood, looks just like a strange dirty old man and a four year old in grave danger?

Do you know what this says to me, my comrade-with-a-truly-unnerving-capacity-to-hear-about-my-pschotic-side with true interest and sympathy? I'll tell you flat out: it means i have to shave. I've let my beard grow in, mostly gray, during the lockdown, taking the whole thing as a razor holiday, but clearly that must change. If I'm going to end up locked up as a manic pervert and a danger to the youth, i want the initial 911 call transcript to have a change to read "a strange MAN." Or at least, "a late-middle-aged pervert." You know, something i can live with, something to see me through all that practice behind bars, practicing my hack on the Prisoners' Dilemma.

I loved this story. Well, apart from the fact that it is a tragedy that kids are in danger of meeting with strange men, and some strange women too, possibly some strange non-binaries as well, and apart from the fact that because of that, innocent men are tragically met with suspicion when being amazing with kids. I find that it brings about some hope for humanity that your conclusion in this was not that you need to avoid playing with the kid, but that you need to shave. It had me laugh. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:07 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:04 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts

I loved this story. Well, apart from the fact that it is a tragedy that kids are in danger of meeting with strange men, and some strange women too, possibly some strange non-binaries as well, and apart from the fact that because of that, innocent men are tragically met with suspicion when being amazing with kids. I find that it brings about some hope for humanity that your conclusion in this was not that you need to avoid playing with the kid, but that you need to shave. It had me laugh. 


this will make you laugh more: i DID shave, this afternoon. And while i was in the bathhouse shaving (i live in a sort of campground, and have no shower of my own), Hartley trotted up to my door again and knocked. My neighbor, Dan, spotted her and came out and asked if her dad knew where she was. She said yes, and told him she wanted me to come out and play. He said, Mr. Tim is not home right now, and walked her home. Turned out her mom, Amy had her today, and she most definitely had not cleared Hartley for that jaunt. Second lie in two days. I swore a bit and then asked Dan if he thought i should go talk to whichever parent had her today, or should i jyst let it be. He said, Damn right you gotta go talk to them. I said, Wanna come? He said, Hell no.

Down the street i go, noticing as i went that Hartley was playing with some other friends on the other side of the circle that she is cleared to roam freely in. (I am beyond that cleared zone.) I knocked on the side of the trailer, and Amy came out, and i said we need to talk, Hartley's okay, she's right over there, and this is a long story, best told slowly, don't worry. Gave her the whole history of the past 30 hours with Hartley. She smokes too, thank God, we were sitting outside on a table in the sun. Right about as i had her up to date, Hartley trotted up. Long conversation, confronting her with the lies, re-emphaszing the lines, establishing new lines on new situations, etc. Poor Harley took it pretty well right up to the point, then visibly wilted into her mom. I whispered to Amy, "Put me in time-out too," which she promptly did in her best parental voice for all my own obvious parts in the fiasco. I took my last two cigarettes and went for a walk around the circle, and ended up after one loop at another table about a hundred yards away, pretty much out of Hartley's sight (her back to me), while she and Amy did whatever they do to let the kid reinflate and get happy. It took its while, but i was in time-out, with cigarettes, ideal for me. Finally Amy looked up and gestured me over, I was out of time-out. Hartley hopped up bright as new and we played for the next hour, then i told her i had to work, gave amy my phone number, because the protocol now is that if Hartley wants to play with me, she has to ask her parents to call me first, amy gave me her phone number, and Tony Bob's, and i eased on down the road.

Thank God I DID shave, and faced all that clean-cut! 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:10 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:10 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Gotta say, I'm impressed. 
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Smiling Stone, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:26 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:26 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 341 Join Date: 5/10/16 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Gotta say, I'm impressed. 

Yep, +1, and it does not sound the least manic to me!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:41 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:41 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Smiling Stone:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Gotta say, I'm impressed. 

Yep, +1, and it does not sound the least manic to me!
Dodging one cannonball doth not survival of a battle make.
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Siavash ', modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:33 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:33 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 1679 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Me too!
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:42 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:42 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Siavash:
Me too!

Are you always so easily impressed when a crazy man fakes sanity for an hour and a half? You are a very cheap date, sir. Let's do lunch.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:45 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:45 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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I would be impressed for that skillful navigating even if you weren't manic. I don't doubt for a second that you are, albeit in an unusually lucid manner. 
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Siavash ', modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:52 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:51 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:
Siavash:
Me too!

Are you always so easily impressed when a crazy man fakes sanity for an hour and a half? You are a very cheap date, sir. Let's do lunch.
I can count how many times a year I get impressed. Sometimes not even once a year! We have some saying here, that says The crazy likes it when he sees another crazy ;-)
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:58 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:58 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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emoticon!!! emoticon!!!
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:46 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 3:46 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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"Put me in time-out too," 

This just melted me.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:21 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:21 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Okay, I just must ask: one of your books are for sale for the modest sum of $952.95 at amazone. Paperback edition. Do people pay that? 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:41 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 4:41 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Okay, I just must ask: one of your books are for sale for the modest sum of $952.95 at amazone. Paperback edition. Do people pay that? 


emoticon No, that's crazy. In the U.S they pay $1.99 plus shipping, used. For copies in English, of course. I remember a Dutch version of one book, and a Polish translation, of something, Portugese, and a German of something. But there is no reason whatsoever in that attempt at a scam, I'm a nobody, and i'm not even dead. I have more copies of the foreign editions than i know what to do with, and would give them away to anyone who wanted to read them.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 5:11 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/14/20 5:11 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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They sell the same book for a few dollars too. It's those that are the only ones left in stock that are so expensive. Some are available in Sweden for reasonable prices, in English (I prefer books untranslated if written in English), so I'll probably buy a couple of them as soon as I get my salary. They seem cool. 
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:07 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:05 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2722 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Good Afternoon Tim!

It looks like you treated yourself to a lie-in this morning you lazy bastard.

The ass is a perfectly good meditation object. I think Mahasi Sayadaw says if you can’t find the breath then just note “sitting, sitting”.

I think it’s pretty normal to think that the neighbors would have you locked up if they knew what crazy shit was going on in your head. There is a quote from some esteemed Lama somewhere which I will try to find – a student asked him how he was so calm the whole time and his reply was something to the effect of “if you could see the crazy shit inside my head you would run a mile”.

Don’t sue me, but by the sounds of things you are not a pervert and not the slightest bit of danger to yourself or anyone else. You just like to entertain the thought that you might be because it scares the shit out of you and yet has a fascination for you at the same time. We all have crazy thoughts and the only difference is how much time or credibility we give them. If I told you some of the crazy shit that pops into my head sometimes when I am sitting on my daughter’s bed stroking her hair then I would probably be locked up and never see my kids again. Get over it, you’re normal ok!

Actually you’re pretty special really. I was thinking yesterday that you are like the Hunter S Thompson of vipassana meditation, but immediately it struck me that there is NO FUCKING WAY that HSFT would have been crazy enough to try an insight cycle in the middle of a manic break. If you can pull it off then this would probably be the most fucked-up gonzo real-time insight cycle ever. Period.

But … if that is what this is, I don’t want to kill your buzz or anything, but you are aware what is somewhere over the horizon right, as night follows day? Not trying to pre-empt you into anything, but just want to make sure that you are ready for the possibility. And if it does come, I for one will be seriously fucking pissed if you get yourself locked up or do any other crazy shit and stop posting here. Remember, we are hanging on your every word and our lives will never be the same again until we see you naked riding this mfucking crazy-assed pink elephant through to equanimity. Deal?
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 10:05 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 9:58 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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agnostic:
Good Afternoon Tim!

It looks like you treated yourself to a lie-in this morning you lazy bastard.

Yeah, I slugged-a-bed quite properly, depressed-guy length sleep, a bonus laziness possible

I think it’s pretty normal to think that the neighbors would have you locked up if they knew what crazy shit was going on in your head. There is a quote from some esteemed Lama somewhere which I will try to find – a student asked him how he was so calm the whole time and his reply was something to the effect of “if you could see the crazy shit inside my head you would run a mile”.

Experience has taught me to be hyper-conservative and Highly Paranoid, in manic protocol. I'd a millions times rather err on the side of no one seeing me for a few months than scare a local, if i can help it. I got wound up in some tricky shit just taking a walk yesterday, and have not gone out today. I have interacted quite naturally with neighbors from both sides, while out on smoke breaks--- Don's wife is reading my vietnam war era novel, which i gave them yesterday after he and i had been talking about The Wall in DC, and names we knew on it, and such. And the wife of my neighbor on the other side walked by at one point with her tiny dog Lemon, who ran over and jumped up and me and started licking my face frantically, best i've had in decades. She and i joked about the social distancing violation, and agreed to not hold it against lemon. So you're right, in that sense, no real neighbor troubles on the radar right now. But i know how fast that can change. Chris Marti is a neighbor, and i think i've given him some cause for concern at various moments during nthis run. I don't want to do that if i can help it. But he and i are cool so far, and i rely on him; his concern is my present DEW line.

Get over it, you’re normal ok!

 Thank you. That could actually be possibly reassuring, coming from someone sane.

I was thinking yesterday that you are like the Hunter S Thompson of vipassana meditation, but immediately it struck me that there is NO FUCKING WAY that HSFT would have been crazy enough to try an insight cycle in the middle of a manic break. If you can pull it off then this would probably be the most fucked-up gonzo real-time insight cycle ever. Period.

You so get me, honey. emoticon

But … if that is what this is, I don’t want to kill your buzz or anything, but you are aware what is somewhere over the horizon right, as night follows day? Not trying to pre-empt you into anything, but just want to make sure that you are ready for the possibility.


well, win, lose, or draw on my Hunter Thompson-esque literary ambitions, this is a no-nonsense clinical level bipolar manic psychosis episode, and night follows day no matter what. My last Big One, mania-wise, was summer of 2018, run through early fall and scared the shit out of a few informed professionals but was otherwise unnoticed by said neighbors, my most crucial audience. The crash after that one was correspondingly epic, through the winter, scaring the same profesionals now with possible suicidal ideation so bad that i finally had to stop talking about it with my psychiatrist because it was stressing him out. So i told him i was depressed, but determined to get through it, true enough for pragmatic dharma and actual human interaction with a state of the art human being feeling the weight of his professional responsibilitis. Nobody wants suicidal patients, for God's sake. But what can you do? If they kill themselves, you feel like you missed something, no matter what. And if they don't kill themselves--- i mean, if i don't kill myself, why shuld i stress the guy out by saying things that at best he can take as cries for help? It actually is one of the most effective things that keeps me from killing myself these days in the dukha nanas, that i don't want that on my poor psychiatrist's score sheet. That, and all the trouble and expense, and someone i probably love around here having to find the body when it starts to stink. Meditation is much simpler, and a better way of checking out anyway. Suicide is just unskillful means in the nana of desire for deliverance.

Also, on the last depressive cycle, i bottomed out in march and then did what i do best with depression/dark night at a certain functional level, which is write a fucking novel. A working depression/dark night is better than gold, for me. I just have to crawl out of the wrecked burning ruins first and find a pen. 

 I for one will be seriously fucking pissed if you get yourself locked up or do any other crazy shit and stop posting here. Remember, we are hanging on your every word and our lives will never be the same again until we see you naked riding this mfucking crazy-assed pink elephant through to equanimity. Deal?

Deal.
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 11:53 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 11:47 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:

My last Big One, mania-wise, was summer of 2018, run through early fall and scared the shit out of a few informed professionals but was otherwise unnoticed by said neighbors, my most crucial audience. The crash after that one was correspondingly epic, through the winter, scaring the same profesionals now with possible suicidal ideation so bad that i finally had to stop talking about it with my psychiatrist because it was stressing him out.

You are going to have to work a lot harder if you want to scare the shit out of me. Don't forget, I have 24-7 live streaming of my subconscious and even that doesn't scare the shit out of my any more.

Nobody wants suicidal patients, for God's sake. But what can you do? If they kill themselves, you feel like you missed something, no matter what. And if they don't kill themselves--- i mean, if i don't kill myself, why shuld i stress the guy out by saying things that at best he can take as cries for help? It actually is one of the most effective things that keeps me from killing myself these days in the dukha nanas, that i don't want that on my poor psychiatrist's score sheet.

When I was depressed and felt like I could control nothing in my life and thought I was suicidal, there was one thing I could control ... the reaction of those people I told that I was feeling suicidal. I was putting them in a bind. Recognize that this is a different thing from actually intending to kill yourself.

Meditation is much simpler, and a better way of checking out anyway. Suicide is just unskillful means in the nana of desire for deliverance.

Worked for me. I realized that if I was going to kill myself, I was still kinda curious to see what would happen afterwards. That was the moment when I started meditating again. No preconceptions, no judgements, no medications, no therapist narrative - just let myself for the first time be as truly depressed as I thought I wanted to be and let myself die and see what happens ... What happened in my case was that I realized just how deeply angry I was about everything and that the depression was just a thin self-assumed defense, which evaporated as quickly as dew in the morning sun of my righteous anger, but that's another story.

Also, on the last depressive cycle, i bottomed out in march and then did what i do best with depression/dark night at a certain functional level, which is write a fucking novel. A working depression/dark night is better than gold, for me. I just have to crawl out of the wrecked burning ruins first and find a pen. 

Ok so this is what you did in the past, doesn't mean you have to do it again. While we are throwing caution to the wind here, how scary would it be for you to go through this without the thought that you are going to get another novel out of it? Probably pretty terrifying to your identity as a writer I would imagine, but writers can go through different incarnations as well ...
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 12:22 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 12:19 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Ok so this ["getting a novel out of" the mania/depression cycle ] is what you did in the past, doesn't mean you have to do it again. While we are throwing caution to the wind here, how scary would it be for you to go through this without the thought that you are going to get another novel out of it? Probably pretty terrifying to your identity as a writer I would imagine, but writers can go through different incarnations as well ...

Not scary at all, i've done that work pretty much down to the bottom. I'm done, toast, stick a fork in me, basically, as a writer. If that shit happens (it's pretty clear internally when it does, it's a distinct narrative voice offering itself to attention), then i'll see, but for several years now even during depressions a lot of my energy has been pure prayer hours and scripture during my "writing time"---approximately four hours a day, first thing, since i was 20 or so, i was a long-time adherent to the Kurt Vonnegut school of "I can only be smart for hour hours a day at most," which was sort of inflating things, in my case, lotsa pissed away eras in there, but the structure of about four hours saved my ass innumerable times, no matter what i was during or not doing during those dedicated hours. I've felt dead and gone with the publishing industry since they told me in 2008 that my best work so far was "too quiet," and my agent said that no one was going touch a "quiet" book like that, with my sales history, i needed a splashy breakout book somehow to get back in the game. Since that quiet thing was precisely what i thought of as the best splashy breakout book i could have written, I was obviously deeply fucked. 12 years of grieving the demise of the writer i had hoped to be living off his royalties, and here i am, still doing a surprising amount of something, for a dead man. But I've been a dead man walking in writing for years. During this mania, the thought of writing anything coherent and literary is sort of like thinking about taking a bath in a tub full of rusty barbed wire. Most of the time, in my more prevalent depressive regimes, it is more like just taking a bath in a nice cold tub of grease. 

The thing is, you're right that's it's a whole new ballgame right now, possibly without a ball in the new game, possibly without a game in the new, possibly without a new in the. Possibly without a. Possibly without. Possibly. P) So, yeah, what you said, mate.

While we are throwing caution to the wind here. . .

Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 9:09 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 8:50 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 15, 2020, day 3 of God-guided sesshin using neolithic pre-vipassana technique AMA

Sit 4.  0:01:02.

There is my thumbs, touching. There is my ass, a pang, not painful, just saying hello. There is my thumbs, touching. There is thinking, this is a duet! There is in breath, sweet and gentle. There is quiet, brief and full. There is my thumbs, chilly, both of them, just in from a smoke on a cloudy morning when the spring turned north again overnight. There is feeling the heart, pounding, in a long resonant line from the base of the throat to the belly. There is WAY TOO MUCH EXCITEMENT. There is the thumbs, pressing, a kind of reminder pressure. There is the sound of the timer going dingdingding. There is a longing for a better timer sound, a Byzantine Psalm fragment, for instance, like i was able to get on my previous computer.

I had set the timer for this sit for 0:01:02, based on my sits so far today, adjusting down from my peak at 0:01:03.

The heartbeat so strong brought back a fun memory. I was on a retreat with Richard Moss and a crew, somewhere in some southern California deserts he loves to frequent, early in the 2000s, and during one meditation it was just all heart thudding, all the time, in a way i had never experienced. I mean, i was a breath guy from the get go, my heartbeat at best was faint and really kind of abstract almost all the time, like the touchpoint of my thumbs when i started this round: drowned out by everything else, basically, imperceptible. But here it was, wham wham wham, for half an hour. I wonderd if it did that all the time and if I had just somehow opened up to it, that this was in fact just a normal heartbeat, perceived, or if i was having an anxiety attack, or going insane in a whole new way, or what. At the meal afterward, i ended up at his table, and I asked him if he ever noticed his heartbeat. He said, "Of course," like, Duh. So I decided to not panic and just see how it went. In retrospect, it was a little fast that day, possibly even in a feedback loop with the excitement of percieving it in such strong sensate fashion, but basically normal. I'm not at all afraid of an actual heart attack, that would be a great, relatively fast way to go as far as i've seen from the options available. Unfortunately, Farrington hearts are genetically and historically quite strong and only stop beating under extreme duress. We die of stroke related stuff in that side of my family, the heart getting too strong for the arteries. so i have that to look forward to, statistically speaking.

Now I'm going to go have a cigarette.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 10:51 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 15, 2020. Day 3 of sesshin.

sit 5.  0:01:03

There is looking for the point of touch at the thumbs. There is the chill of the back of the right fingers, cupped within the palm warmth of the left hand. There is rembering Papa Che noting a similar thing. There is turning attention to sense and the not-painful ever-reliable ass presenting, and there is an immediate swirl movement, like stirring a pot of stew to find a chunky piece, there is the attention bouncing to vision, there is thinking this is typical Controller movement probably, there is alertness, interest, there is a counter swirl, with tension in the temple, there is effort, mental, to picture that as a radar sweep going backwards, there is in breath, there is ass pulse, there is where are the thumbs, there is hearing the timer chiming.

commentary: among other things, i am doing a scrupulous reductio ad absurdum of my timer discipline as laid in down in fairly rigid tracks over many years. Linda can correct me here, if i'm off, but I think of it as having a strong real OCD element, and owning it, in the spirit of my meditation practice itself as a species of compulsive arguably superstitious behavior repeated under the stress and anxiety of mortality and easier on the skin than hand-washing, cheaper than heroin, less fattening than chocolate, more entertaining than anything else, most of the time, in depressive regime and under depression protocols, and less painful than cutting. My timer settings are as involved and archaic as Ptolemian astronomy, full of immensively creative cycles and epicycles, to try to keep them in close enugh proximity to the reality of observation in practice of how long i can stand to sit, which is my real standard. Since i decided to try this evolving thread of utterly alien technique and begin learning the language of it from the ground up like an immigrant just off the boat, everything meditative is up for question right now, use it or lose it. I need a timed meditation, or at least want it so desperately, for the structure, that it amounts to need at this point in the state of the art. So, according to my reductio reliance on Ptolemaic methods applied in scrupulous adherence to outdated ways of thinking, i settled today on 0:01:02 as my gold standard and have been adding a second if i hit that, and taking a second off if I bail out and have to run off, for whatever reason. If I see a trend, i may cut or add larger times, to see if that works better. This was the second sit in a row where the timer just seemed like a booming surprise, and a few more of those and i might add 30 seconds at some point and see if that kicks my ass on the next round or not.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 12:49 PM
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"There is looking for the point of touch at the thumbs. There is the chill of the back of the right fingers, cupped within the palm warmth of the left hand. There is rembering Papa Che noting a similar thing. There is turning attention to sense and the not-painful ever-reliable ass presenting, and there is an immediate swirl movement, like stirring a pot of stew to find a chunky piece, there is the attention bouncing to vision, there is thinking this is typical Controller movement probably, there is alertness, interest, there is a counter swirl, with tension in the temple, there is effort, mental, to picture that as a radar sweep going backwards, there is in breath, there is ass pulse, there is where are the thumbs, there is hearing the timer chiming."

This whole set here was joy to read. Thats the work to be done. Nice one! You are my Champion! 1st Gear, easy and steady. Love it!
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:00 PM
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I think that using a timer ought to be done with that kind of strict regime. Otherwise one is telling oneself that it is okay to cut corners, and that makes it even easier to cheet in the future. Also, disrupting sessions ruins one's confidence. If longer sessions are difficult, short ones are to prefer as a baseline. It is always possible to sit longer when the timer rings, if one finds that one wants to. Starting out with something that you know you can go through with is great. Increasing the time very gradually is great. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 2:48 PM
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I think that using a timer ought to be done with that kind of strict regime. Otherwise one is telling oneself that it is okay to cut corners, and that makes it even easier to cheet in the future. Also, disrupting sessions ruins one's confidence. If longer sessions are difficult, short ones are to prefer as a baseline. It is always possible to sit longer when the timer rings, if one finds that one wants to. Starting out with something that you know you can go through with is great. Increasing the time very gradually is great. 

Thank you so much. It's solid ground, that lockedin baseline. Need it.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 11:46 AM
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April 15, 2020

sesshin day 3

sit 6.  0:01:04

There is immediately, despite the opening intention to go sensate between the thumbs, high-pitched coffee-noise in both ears. There is gladness that i actually drank less coffee today than my norm, because if this keeps up at this volume, i am going to have to drink less still tomorrow. There is the ass pang, there is trying again for the thumbs, there is awareness of the "steepleness" of the thumb posture, there is wondering if i have tilted the thumbs differently this time through, or it's just a new angle on thumbology, there is "movement", there is recognition of an invisible hand's agenda in play, there is whatever an imagined image of rotation is, very wide and slow rotation, like the entire solar system rotating around a point and trying to go slow enough to note it. There is nice try, you fucking control freak. There is shift in whatever an imagined image/metaphor is, now a corkscrew helix image of perceptual reaching out, there is an ass pang, there is whatever an image of the pang "translated" according to a hidden agenda invisible player is of the pang's impulse spiraling up, there is yeah, you fuck, crib that old siddha yoga chakra shit all you want, there is quiet, there is the thumbs, that weird angle, kaboom there is the timer going off.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 4:07 PM
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April 15, 2020. Sesshin protocol in effect.

sit 7.  0:01:05

There is prayer, verbalized instantly from habit, there is looking for the touch point of the thumbs, there is sensation at the base of the spine, sort of full and sleek, there is movement, there is attributing movement to Hidden Control Freak, there is thinking Hidden Control Freak has a very good deal with these short sits, his painful painted-into-a-corner dilemmas don't have time to reveal themselves, there is an "image" of a downward spiraling "energy" smooth-flowing down the spine, there is sensation, delicious, in the asshole region, like a caress by a very good masseuse, there is the timer dinging, there is a real jolt of surprise.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:13 PM
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April 15, 2020 sesshin protocol, day 3
Sit 8.  0:01:06

There is prayer, there is breath, there is intention toward the sensate, there is the smooth, warm caress at the ass-pain point, there is reminding, there is the meeting of the thumbs, right thumb chilly from holding the last cigarette with that hand, left warmer from being folded against my leg outside, there is movement, there is the martial arts spin image, there is rising, there is a gathering spin "imagery/thought/sales job", there is again the descending spiral "energy" thought/metaphor, there is fuck you Controller, i'm working here, there is comic reminding thought that's working here too, let him get on with it, there is the meeting of the thumbs, there is the seductive caress again of the ass-sensate point, there is the left thumb's soothing warmth, there is again comic interpreation, like a siren song from my asshole, there is the timer ding, loud, i may have to turn that thing down some.

commentary, notes: this after a quick supper, watching "Lock-down Comedy Clips pt. 3" on YouTube. Every comic bit seemed like something i would like to insert into the conversation on the Advaita/Buddhism thread, it's amazing how much humor plays of our understanding of "what is a person."
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 6:18 PM
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April 15, 2020

sesshin day 3

sit 9. 0:01:07

there is tightness in chest, there is intention of thumb-sense, there is that very nifty hemorrhoid caress by coy dakinis or whatever, there is intention to find the fucking thumbs, there is being Really Fucking Impressed by how how ass feels, there is knowing it is only intention that is ever going to feel those fucking thumbs, that ass stuff is lovely, there is feeling the thumbs, just flat against each other, all sensate detail blotted out there, really, it may not even be a feeling, there is the timer dinging like it's been three seconds.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:16 PM
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Tim Farrington:
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there is sensation, delicious, in the asshole region, like a caress by a very good masseuse, there is the timer dinging, there is a real jolt of surprise.

Him is starting to liking this shtuff emoticon Noice me lad!

BTW, even the hemorrhoids have some fine sensations to be noticed emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 5:43 PM
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That's sort of what I thought too. I mean, i've had worse. It's sort of, yummy.
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George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 6:30 PM
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Control center/freak sounds promising (for tomorrow!) Can you start to see some of the sensations which it is made of?

I say fuck the publishing industry (well they are screwed anyway, karma's a bitch). What is this, 1959 or something? Just live stream your novelistic ramblings into your twitter feed and link it up with tik tok noting videos and become your own self-monetized social media phenom or something. There seems to be no limit to what people will follow and in case you hadn't noticed everyone is on their devices all day long. Hardly anyone has the ability to pick up let alone finish a book any more ...




Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/15/20 7:18 PM
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April 15, 2020

sesshin day 3

sit 10.  0:01:08

There is prayer, there is in-breath, there is intention to feel thumbs-together, there is attention leap, high, maybe trying to control the "angle" toward the thumbs, there is intention to find the thumb, there is deciding, trying, to let it do what it may, just find the thumbs, there is the sweet ass sensation, lovely, there is intention of thumbs, there is a "sense" of internal fluidity, there is speculation, that the efforts of attention to the thumbs somehow allows this high internal dynamism and fluidity, on the one hand, and this very prominent very smooth and caressing sacral sensation, there is the sensation of the meeting surface of the thumbs, but dull, flat, featureless, like trying to read Braille and feeling no bumps, there is the timer sound, that hard-core minute's flying by baby.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 1:11 AM
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April 16, 2020

Still in protocol of Remedial Sesshin For Pre-Vipassana noting-practice for pre-beginners, and Bonus Journal of a Descent into Manic Psychosis While Hoping to Flatten the Curve

day 4

sit 1. 0:01:09

the technique remains, with hands folded right atop left in lap and thumbs meeting, attend to the actual sensation where the thumbs meet.
 (Before beginning the sit, i automatically reached for my rosary, which i had using steadily for years now as a repurposed mala/aid to palpable iterations, and smiled at myself. That was my previous lifeline; my life now is in my own thumbs.)

There is prayer opening phrase, old-style on autopilot, there is amusement, there is prayer opening phrase, there is creaky pain, lower right back, there is, remembering the thumbs, there is sacral sensation, there is "swirling movement," like wrestlers after a probing touch backing a step off again and circling, there is caressing sacral sensation, there is thinking, wow, these shorter sits are literally less of a pain in the ass, there is remembering the thumbs, there is no fucking thumbs, there is remembering, there is the timer chime. There is: I'm adding a minute, this just goes too fast not, even when i'm going slowly.

notes: the creaky back is not from sitting, it is from playing with Hartley--- she is a constant yogic obstacle course requiring an aerobic level of ever new postures, stooping, bending, climbing, lying down on benches, sitting up, picking many things up, bending to put many things down just right, etc.
sleep, for mania afficianados keeping score, 4.5 hours, not particulary good and hopefully not a trend toward sleeplessness.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 1:38 AM
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April 16, 2020

"sesshin" protocol/mania watch

sit 2. 0:02:00

There is in-breath, there is ass-pang, neither pleasant nor unpleasant, there is remembering thumbs, there is "swirling movement," spiraling up, there is ass-pang, more caressing, there is thinking Body has learned lovely new trick, there is attention moving upward, there is recognition of pattern, there is thought that seems so primal and utterly familiar, it may be hard-wired in my particular nervous system, there is remembering thumbs, but no thumbs, there is a "broader, more sweeping" rotational "image", like taking the magnification down a notch, a wider view, there is awareness of trying to have a "handle on it," there is remembering the thumbs, there is the ass-pang, warmer and firmer, there is no thumbs, there is feeling the left pinkie finger, on the bottom of the mudra heap, there is excitement, mind/emotional lift at "scoring" an "appropriate" sensate hit, there is mantra, old meditation style at let-go points, there is ass-pang, very pleasant, there is distinctly, left pinkie finger, there is the :swirl," there is remembering thumbs, but probably colored by the pinkie finger hit, there is a line of palpable tension, a contraction along the inner left arm, there is speculation: trying to keep them hand-hits coming, there is timer sounding.

notes: bumped the time to two minutes and it still flew. Will stay conservative and by-the-book and use this as the baseline for one-second bump intervals, until a trend seems established.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:20 AM
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Got up this morning, gave me son some milk and honey on bread, made me self some coffee and then I read this fantastic post! I rather read this than morning news! 

Yes, increase only when it feels natural to do so. Must be fueled by genuine curiosity and wonder rather then "trying to impress with quantity". 

Sitting too long just to spend most of the time in dreading and rumination is of no use. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:09 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Got up this morning, gave me son some milk and honey on bread, made me self some coffee and then I read this fantastic post! I rather read this than morning news! 

Yes, increase only when it feels natural to do so. Must be filed by genuine curiosity and wonder rather then "trying to impress with quantity". 

Sitting too long just to spend most of the time in dreading and rumination is of no use. 

Funny, this must have come in while i was composing my last practice log entry, lovely. I say that partly so you'll know that the Papa Che love/delight was not because of this post of yours, as i hadn't seen it yet, but was related to your slowed-down-noting-aloud video.

2 minutes seems well within genuine curiousity and wonder zone; the key is pace within whatever the time frame is, and not getting ambitious with either pace or length of sit. I am actually not giving pace of "noticing" (as opposed to full on "noting" maybe), hits per second, much thought at all since the crisis and breakthrough to accepting pace as no shame whatever it is, as you accept your body's state of the art in whatever yoga posture you're in, and work from that gently, even if all the mean boys and girls laugh at your stiff ass from the front of the class when they look back between their legs. I'd rather have my stiff ass laughed at while experiencing my slow wonder meditation than be a contortionist state of the art on the cover of the Yoga Journal, with an exploding brain. My brain explodes just fine without help or hurry, thank you. I love my pace right now, and i am grateful for your support on its (sort of remedially hilarious) "stats and specs."
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:34 AM
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About the pace and even our perception that meditation is a long sitting cross legged practice;
I love how Kenneth Folk is trying to dismantle this notion with his 100 attaboy clicks a day. 

He uses a counter clicker (the one bouncers/door men use to know how many customers are in the pub) to click each time he has profoundly contacted a sensation or mind state. 
It would go like; touching, warmth, tingeling (for hands here) , attaboy you get 3 clicks, click, click, click emoticon 

Im not suggesting you do this method. Far from it. All I'm saying is that with your practice regime right now you ARE certainly doing this already!

Short but profound sessions with wonder and curiosity. 

Just to put your mind at ease if you start having pushing thoughts about increasing your practice too much for the sake of time alone (elitist bullshit stuff). 
You contacting cold fingers during your smoke outside is also part of the "attaboy clicks". It really all counts as it's about Noticing. Gentle noticing of being a Conscious being. A Lovely one at that emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 4:55 AM
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Papa Che Dusko:

Short but profound sessions with wonder and curiosity. 

Just to put your mind at ease if you start having pushing thoughts about increasing your practice too much for the sake of time alone (elitist bullshit stuff). 
You contacting cold fingers during your smoke outside is also part of the "attaboy clicks". It really all counts as it's about Noticing. Gentle noticing of being a Conscious being. A Lovely one at that emoticon 

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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 2:58 AM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin/mania-timeline-study day 4

sit 3. 0:02:01


There is in-breath, habitual centering move in old style, there is pang in ass, not pain, not pleasure, just registering mid-range and not sharp, there is coolness of right hand cupped in warmer left (residual temperature differences post smoke break), there is delight (Papa Che love), there is that (wonderful) cold right hand, success success, there is you fucking idiot, there is slow down, there is in-breath, there is awareness of "somehow trying to shape or steer the breath", there is memory, pranayama exrcises, pranayana teachers and breathologist teachers, there is the warmth of the left hand, gotta get them hands different temperatures more often, man, there is in-breath, there is a "sense of a strong 'tilt' " of the body, leaning left and up, like the way certain squares can be skewed and turned into rectangles or rhomboids by certain graphic arts programs by pulling on one corner, there is mantra, there is knowing that mantra in this context is "trying to let that go," there is good old cold right hand, the last three fingers each distinct, there is much delight and self-congratulatory crap, there is timer.

Yes, Mom, I located three fingers of my right hand during meditation today by immersing them in icy air while smoking a cigarette and scorching my lungs into a charred wasteland, love your devoted son, tim

notes: the pranayama stuff--- it was big in Siddha yoga, lots of huffing and puffing, nostril switches, counting, pacing. I studied under a number of breath specialists, who laid on hands, guided, whatever. Then I went through a long period of feeling like all that had really just fucked things up, because it was becoming clear to me that most of what had been happening when i was "letting the breath be" was in fact highly manipulative control exercises that painted feet and legs and arms all over a snake that crawls well enough on its own to have kept a maniac like me alive this long, never missed a breath long enough to break that outrageous record of success, and the closest i've ever come to stop that success story (aside from smoking, i mean) seems to have been slow count pranayama and trying to herd the breath into the latest most fashionable place for the breath to be.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:41 AM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin/mania-and-mediation study in progress, day 4

sit 4.  0:02:02

There is lots of thinking about "sesshin," really lots, there is in-breath, there is slowing down, there is good-old ass-pang orientation, Old Faithful butt sensation, the meditator's friend and connection to all things, there is remembering the thumbs, there is feeling the chill right hand, there is wondering whether the difficulty of looking at a specific point for the sensate beginning of the feedback loops is crucial to this technique, and what specifically . . . there is timer sounding.

notes: I am open to feedback on the question of the sensate seed in meditation sequences, the refresh mechanism of the technique. It feels like forcing, looking for the thumbs and hands, and if there is a larger contextual learning possible from really working, expending effort, on that, i am fine with that, and will keep up this current mode in which i am largely remembering that i intend to focus on the thumbs/hands as my jump-off point, and try to just watch what arises from there in sequence. As it is right now, I seem to myself to be sort of continuously suspecting that the technique is concentrative, in that specific point, but i am not set up for concentrative work right now as i'm doing it. Does that make any sense? Would love some input on this, if it is coherent enough for anyone to feel i am capable of hearing a response.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:22 AM
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For awakening you don't need to contextualize everything. Unless you desire to be a teacher of this stuff and want to know it in such detail as Ingram does. 

Insight will happen when ready. It will happen on its own if you just pay attention to sensations as you do. 

I would note those thoughts as "uncertainty" "questioning" or however you want to name it and move on to what is very much there, the sensate vibrancy of the ars or thumbs, chilled fingers...

It's also fine to notice those uncertainty thoughts too. 

Ingram is advising (if I remember correctly) Noting sensations 99% and pondering about the experiences 1% during the sit emoticon or something like this. 

Kenneth Folk draws the line between Actualism and Aboutism. "Itching, itching, pulsating, pleasant" would be Actualism and this is Awakening, while "is this a chakra blockage, or I really had this amazing experience, or I'm having this non-dual experience 24/7" would be Aboutism and according to him utter bullshit emoticon (you gotta love that guy's teaching style). 

Ok, I might be talking useless stuff here so will return now to playing with LEGO again ...
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:26 AM
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That helps. I love the Aboutism assessment. Sounds like my kind of guy.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:35 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Or you could take it a step further and see the formations as formations, but that is way later than the soup, to continue on Malcolm's metaphor in another thread. I just want to mention that at some point considering chakra blockages can be very helpful, because the chakra blockage is a formation and symbolic communication from the subconscious about what needs to be worked with. It can be worked with without buying into it and reifying it. Starting with it without understanding formations is generally not a good idea. 
T, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 7:46 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Interesting - if I work under the premise that my throat/heart blockage is causing this situation. What would be advisable, Linda? In your opinion. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 9:01 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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T:
Interesting - if I work under the premise that my throat/heart blockage is causing this situation. What would be advisable, Linda? In your opinion. 

I'm just learning this myself. I'm going to speak about myself now. Whether it is applicable for you, that's really not for me to tell.

I think it has to do with things that are really important to me and that concern compassion with the relative world and identifying with such compassion (heart chakra) and taking a stance and voicing stuff (throat chakra). Furthermore, I think it has to do with perceived tensions between those aspects and the dharma. Insight means that new relationships have to be formed with one's convictions. There is no escape from that. Views cannot remain intact. However, abandoning everything we believe in is also a view, and a nihilistic one. I wouldn't want to get stuck in that trap. Thus, the more people are poking in my wounds and pushing me to abandon my views (in favor of their view, actually), the more contracted I get. Because the field is about to open up, but the fear that opening up is not safe makes me put up shields. Expanding energies are pushing against the wall of contracting energies. 

If this rings a bell, I'd say don't push it. Be gentle with yourself. Give it time. Don't allow anyone to overstep your boundaries to rush your development. Consider that the options may not be what they seem like. Consider that the truth may go beyond that. If possible, focus a loving and accepting awareness on the tensions to make them feel safe enough to let go. I find that restorative yoga positions that physically open up the heart and throat chakra (exposing them and stretching out muscles and tissues that are contracting) can be helpful if I can do it in a way that feels safe. I think feeling safe is key here. Don't escalate it. I also find the practice of warrior seed syllables and mantras and prayers helpful. It involves magickal thinking, though, and that's not everybody's cup of tea. If taking a break from the practice to watch cute kittens and puppies is what takes away the tension, that can be a very skillful thing to do. Or just grounding yourself in a way that works for you. Connecting with the things that help you regenerate and make you feel nourished. I don't think that you necessarily have to come up with a solution. Some things just need to settle and resolve themselves. The process knows the way. 

If this was helpful, use it to your own liking, with any modifications you find warranted. If not, please, ignore it. 
T, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:40 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö :
 Consider that the truth may go beyond that. If possible, focus a loving and accepting awareness on the tensions to make them feel safe enough to let go. 
Roger that. Thank you. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 4:41 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 4:39 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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T:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö :
 Consider that the truth may go beyond that. If possible, focus a loving and accepting awareness on the tensions to make them feel safe enough to let go. 
Roger that. Thank you. 

This reminds me of Reiki I once did back in ... 2008 I think it was. I even got attuned to it by a Reiki Master (level Reiki 2). I dont know about this attuning stuff but the self-reiki is about laying palms of your hands on areas on ones body and staying there with love, acceptance and awareness for reiki energy to heal it. I did alot of that back then. 

You certainly feel the tactile sensations of palms on body-hands and the warmth of the palms is very soothing and calming. I can certainly see this laying palms on the body as a way to practice vipassana. Sensations are sensations and we do react very positive to someone holding us or embracing us. 

Just an idea. 

Let me try it now while infront of the computer as I have some very stiff pain in my upper chest, very sharp and unpleasant ...

... yeps it certainly felt pleasant and there were sensations to be observed, or even just abide in that warm touch of the palms for time being with light awareness hovering gently over it. 
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:46 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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 I am open to feedback on the question of the sensate seed in meditation sequences, the refresh mechanism of the technique. It feels like forcing, looking for the thumbs and hands, and if there is a larger contextual learning possible from really working, expending effort, on that, i am fine with that, and will keep up this current mode in which i am largely remembering that i intend to focus on the thumbs/hands as my jump-off point, and try to just watch what arises from there in sequence. As it is right now, I seem to myself to be sort of continuously suspecting that the technique is concentrative, in that specific point, but i am not set up for concentrative work right now as i'm doing it. Does that make any sense? Would love some input on this, if it is coherent enough for anyone to feel i am capable of hearing a response.

Good morning, Tim! I'm impressed by how great you're doing at this exercise and how precise and honest your log entries are.

My feedback for you would be to do your level headed best to focus on the touchpoint you've chosen. I know it's a boring thing to do, at first anyway, but think of it as being like a door to something. You can open the door and see what's behind it, but you have to figure out how to do that. It's not obvious. It's a sort of puzzle. This is the spirit with which the investigative nature of a vipassana practice will be fruitful. 

This (seemingly) narrowly-focused exercise is actually a key to opening the door to the Big Picture. I'm being dead serious about this. The ultimate objective is to discover how the mind constructs our experiences. There is no bigger picture that we can realize. That's IT. That's the EVERYTHING. Literally.

Also, every practice is a mix of concentration and investigation. Our minds just work that way, so there's no avoiding that, but bringing the mind gently back to observation/investigation, whenever possible, is a good idea.

You're doing very, very well. Thanks for humoring me.

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 7:32 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Chris Marti:


This (seemingly) narrowly-focused exercise is actually a key to opening the door to the Big Picture. I'm being dead serious about this. The ultimate objective is to discover how the mind constructs our experiences. There is no bigger picture that we can realize. That's IT. That's the EVERYTHING. Literally.



I agree that this is really important and that it remains important through all of it. Really.

For someone who functions like me and uses words like me (admittedly that's probably just me), it is also important to see this as narrowly-focused in a very specific sense: the exercise is about how attention functions, how our minds function. If one gets into some kind of nondual absorption while doing this, getting all spacious and letting everything sense itself, a very important lesson can be overlooked. Working from the point of view that there is a perceiver and something to be perceived is actually helpful for this exercise.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 7:59 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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You're doing very, very well. 


well, good, 'nuff said.


Thanks for humoring me.


it's sort of hard to do anything BUT humor (with) you, my friend.
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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:50 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 16, 2020

"sesshin" day 4

sit 5.  0:02:03

note: decided to return to the basic sacral pang as my meditation sensate return base. I am just so lazy, and it offers itself so freely, in all its weathers and garbs. I am seeing this as a study in Big Pang Theory: How the Universe Arises.


There is the basic pang, easy, neither painful nor pleasant, there is joy, as at the appearance of a beloved friend, there is in-breath, there is "movement," the attention following up and left, like tracing some pre-inscribed clockwise arc, there is a kind of stylish twirl of "reversed spin"  at around the left collarbone, all "imagery," there is the pang, there is relief, there is ease, there is in-breath, there is a swirl, in the belly, whatever is moving counterclockwise (un-felt, how the hell do i know it's counter-clockwise?), there is the pang, like the swirl dropped powderd sugar on it, a little sweeter now, there is thought ("that's a lot of credit to give to an imagined swirl you can't actually feel or locate except by imagination which is what?"), there is the pang, there is joy, there is the pang, there is a "sense" of dancing, dancing the pango duet, there is joy, there is the timer chiming.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 7:35 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 16, 2020

"sesshin" day 4

sit 6.  0:02:04


There is old faithful pang, there is love, there is gratitude, there is pang, there is interest, what i prayed for, there is ease, there is joy, there is pang, there is a "cumulative sense" of body "leaning" left, there is pang, like a counterpoint, there is not audible but somehow known avery disnct three count i could almost put syllables to, nonsense syllables, consistently the same, like a metronome's beat, bah dum do, not hearing, but somehow namable as a count/pace, there is pang, nicer, gentler, sweeter, there is that sense of a "tilt" left, no physical evidence for it except that i am aware of it during the background "count," and on the beat there is pang, there is joy in the pace itself somehow, there is gratitude to Papa Che's blessing on the pace however it may be, there is joy, there is pang and now there is sweet pang, that recent body trick thing, sort of like masturbation only better, there is the timer chiming, probably just in time, if there are children watching.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 8:22 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 7.  0:02:05

There is, on the beat of settling in, an "image", starting low left and arcing clockwise round toward high center, exactly like spinning a bicycle wheel with an invisible 10 year old's hand, but knowable, namable somehow, as that specific unsensate "image", there is realizing i start almost every sit with that same thing, like the Sign of the Cross or something, except neurologically more deeply engrained even than that, way before conscious, there is in-breath, there is the pang, increasingly beloved, there is a feeling like i would laugh, but that's too much work, there is the pang, Old Faithful, there is gratitude, there is thought--- "I am now in a transference relationship with the pang, it's like my therapist, the source of all love and healing", my faith and my rock--- there is thought, yeah, a rock right up your ass, there is giddiness, again, there is joy and lightness, there is interest, there is the pang, there is love love love, secure, like, this pang ain't goin' nowhere, this ass is on the ground somehow somewhere til all bets are off, there is the pang, there is the timer going dingding.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 9:35 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 8. approx. 0:05:00
note timing is approximate, and may actually be well short of how long i went, it was more likely 6 or 7 minutes. it was not a wild surge of macho or ambition, it was just that my computer restarted automatically at 10am, while i was sitting and the updates loaded for five minutes before the made made a noise that indicated it wanted attention. So by the grace of God and Microsoft, an effortless ass-busting sit of astonishly long (relatively speaking duration). Nice sign for where the mania's at, at the very least. And apparently i am happy with my technique and process right now, as i was not jonesing at all, and was merely puzzled enough to open my eyes by the clickety sort of sigh the machine gave when it had done as much as it could alone and needed me to agree to something.

There is in-breath, there is pang, there is gratitude, there is security, there is no hurry, there is pang, there is rotation, like a counter-twist in yoga, slowly one direction a ways until what seems like just before sensation, then a little tiny pirouette at the top and reverse spin, there is pang, there is joy, there are feet, there is the sole of my left foot at a slightly bad angle to the flooor for some reason, there is seeing if i will be crippled if i don't move, there is not pain, there is pressure, there is a twinge mid-insole, like it might want to cramp, there is in-breath, and follwowing the breath down, there is pang, there is trying to see the turn of the breath, there is pang, there is thought, "seeing" breath, what the hell is that really?, there is in-breath, there is amusement, i missed a round, and i'm not watching the fucking breath anyway, there is pang, there is yeah, see there's job one right there, right on time, there is joy, there is lightness, there is calm, there is in-breath, there is pang, there is quiet, lovely, there is a weird noise, like a cough, mechanical, there isopening eyes and see the screen asking me, updates complete. restart now?. There is selecting "restart now," there is pang, just for laughs.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 10:41 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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April 16, 2020

"sesshin" day 4

sit 9.  0:03:00

note: i took the act of God and Microsoft that led the last session go longer to bump the timer to 3 minutes. I wanted to go higher, because i am a spiritual he man and all, but i realized that i really really like these baby step sits, because almost the entire sit is somewhat clear in my mind. Like Tiger Woods describing his entire thought process on every shot he took through eighteen holes, or Daniel desbrbing his entire thought process for every sub-sub-sub fractal beat of a sit God knows how long, like that, right? At 3 minutes, i'm already beyond the every-shot-on-the-hole thing, except for the first couples holes, maybe. I mean, who can forget what prompted me to try to fly the creek, but the other shots, just trying to keep it in the fairway or get out of the rough . . . but i digress. I think what i'm getting at is that the following strikes me as necessarily condensed.

There is in-breath, there is the pang, there is no hurry, there is the pang, there is whatever that "movement" is, going high arcing left from below, and there is more of less continuous evolution of the pang, a caress, muscle touching muscle in motion, there is the arc sort of dead-ending in the head, there is thinking, this used to be the mantra moment, there is the pang, from a "position" way "too high" that feels "awkward" and strained, but doesn't hurt yet, just shows real promise somehow, there is in-breath, there is "letting go," of trying to follow, there is quiet, an empty beat, there is pang, there is timer dinging , there is well, that was already too much to really keep clear in retrospect.
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Steph S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 11:33 AM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Honestly, you can knock shit out of the park in 3 minutes of really stellar consistency. I like the ladder approach that you're doing of shorter and trying to build it up. I can't tell you how many times in the past that I just knuckled through like an hour sit before I really got my act together, spinning in thought for parts of it, probably doing basically nothing. Not a good plan. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 1:42 PM
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Steph S:
Honestly, you can knock shit out of the park in 3 minutes of really stellar consistency. I like the ladder approach that you're doing of shorter and trying to build it up. I can't tell you how many times in the past that I just knuckled through like an hour sit before I really got my act together, spinning in thought for parts of it, probably doing basically nothing. Not a good plan. 


Have I told you lately that I love you?

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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 2:46 PM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 10.  0:03:01

pre-practice note: i had felt hungry late morning-ish, and in mania protocol i eat whenever i am hungry because it might be a few days before i am hungry again; and then i was sleepy, and ditto, so i took a nap. A good one, i guess, because i woke up feeling like i'd been shot full of haldol, the antipsychotic of choice at psych triage point. Also a bellyache so intense that i could not stand up straight. Promising, I said to myself. I've seen worse, my self said to me. That's for sure, we said in unison. So, a cigarette in the sun beside my pot of bursting purple johnny-jump-ups with white eyes and a touch of yellow at the center. (when Hartley was by here yesterday, she wanted to pick one, and so i said okay. Then I told her a magic trick, that if you pick a petal off it and make a wish, then let it flutter away, your wish will be true. I also mentioned Santa Claus, and the anatta of the illusory ego, i think, but those are both stories for another day. Anyway, being four, she plucked five straight petals, wishing for a house, a car, a parachute, a car, and something else. Maybe another flower, because she went through three before i got her the fuck out of there. May have used unskillful means, there, as far as wiring in superstitious shit on the poor vulnerable child. I am now i red alert, let every flower in the neighborhood suddenly disappear into a snowy heap of plucked wishes. Thank God the azaleas are in full force.

practice: There is . . . a very soft dark unstuporous but kind of stupid-feeling nada, like turning a car on a key with a dead battery, not even a click on this, there is in-breath, after what seems like forever, right, right, there is good old pang, Old Faithful, home sweet home, love of my life, and there is thinking thinking thinking in that soft dark stupid unstuporousness and i'm aware that this is lax-ass practice indeed, and that i might better buckle down and get at least one more sensate data point in home sweet asshole before the timer goes off, or i died, or the world ends, you know, and there is pang, and thought and thought and memory and wow, it's sort of just like that and there is the timer sounding, and i am as happy as a clam, or at least a clam that has to walk bent over 45 degrees due to a simple meal and nap.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:11 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Nice one sir Timus! I must ask something; what is that "pang" you mention so often? Im a vipassana-dummy so please explain in sensate language emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 4:52 PM
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Papa Che Dusko:
Nice one sir Timus! I must ask something; what is that "pang" you mention so often? Im a vipassana-dummy so please explain in sensate language emoticon 

it is an acronym for Painful Anal Noxious Growth.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:00 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:00 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:
Papa Che Dusko:
Nice one sir Timus! I must ask something; what is that "pang" you mention so often? Im a vipassana-dummy so please explain in sensate language emoticon 

it is an acronym for Painful Anal Noxious Growth.
Oh Papa-ji, you meant the thing in the meditations?

It is sloppy language. There is sensation at the base of the spine, at the meeting of ass and chair, but in a bit, there is --- okay, i will startworking harder to explore the qualities, rather than just being so happy to have an ass to sit on. It's sharp, dull, throbby, can be sort of "sensual," like a skilled hand doing doing something skilled, it can register in a rippling wave or as a fat "point," it shows, as a sensasate radar blip, often after some kind of conscious "direction" of attention toward it, so it's like the sensation lights up like a sunrise shadow moving across the face of a mountain, except the sunrise can come from anydirection to send the lighting up moving along in that direction, left a sort of spiral "energy" coming in, lighting up the sensation in a rippling arc high left and around to low right, a delineation . . . From now on i will really investigate the qualities and interesting nuances and do my best to thrill you with them. I did enjoy that lazy era, though. The good old days in my sadhana.

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:28 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Ah I see thanks. I think noting qualities of any given sensation is very interesting. This will also develop a nice sense of intimacy with each sensation as there is much happening there and they can even change appearance as you go more into it. 

You feel if you are up for it. I see no problem if you for now do what you are doing. Consistent daily practice that feels right is paramount. 
You be the sole judge on this. 
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 6:09 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Papa Che Dusko:
Ah I see thanks. I think noting qualities of any given sensation is very interesting. This will also develop a nice sense of intimacy with each sensation as there is much happening there and they can even change appearance as you go more into it. 

You feel if you are up for it. I see no problem if you for now do what you are doing. Consistent daily practice that feels right is paramount. 
You be the sole judge on this. 

Like, noting qualities of any sensation that comes next, rather than returning to the "meditation object" location?
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Chris M, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 7:56 PM
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... and they can even change appearance as you go more into it. 

Can change? CAN?

They will change. If they don't change you're not paying attention.

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Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 3:22 PM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 11. 0:03:02

Once upon a time, I was madly in love with a very brave woman and we had sort of burned a bunch of bridges together and run off into the unknown. I was manic, short of hospitalization but hardly sleeping and really seriously . . . manic. I remember one day during this period, she and I walked down to Ocean Beach from the friend's cottage we were staying at in the Inner Sunset neighborhood in SF. Three miles or so, through Golden Gate Park, down all sorts of by ways and lost lanes and secret paths. When we got to the beach, it was a freakishly "normal" summer day in SF, where Mark Twain said the coldest winter he ever spent was a summer there. Sunny, perfect temperature, mild waves rolling in and splashing. We sat down in the sand, took our shoes off, and just sat there. We were both fried with stress, all our old dear comrades and friends sort of were pissed at us, we had leaped together into paraiah-hood. And neither of us said a word, and it was perfect. I had my hand on her knee, her hand on my hand. And the waves came in, and slipped back, and it was warm, and love, and not a word the whole time. On the walk home, we agreed that it was the best conversation we had ever had.

This sit was like that, except with my asshole.
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:54 PM
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RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Tim Farrington:
Practice log

April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 11. 0:03:02

Once upon a time, I was madly in love with a very brave woman and we had sort of burned a bunch of bridges together and run off into the unknown. I was manic, short of hospitalization but hardly sleeping and really seriously . . . manic. I remember one day during this period, she and I walked down to Ocean Beach from the friend's cottage we were staying at in the Inner Sunset neighborhood in SF. Three miles or so, through Golden Gate Park, down all sorts of by ways and lost lanes and secret paths. When we got to the beach, it was a freakishly "normal" summer day in SF, where Mark Twain said the coldest winter he ever spent was a summer there. Sunny, perfect temperature, mild waves rolling in and splashing. We sat down in the sand, took our shoes off, and just sat there. We were both fried with stress, all our old dear comrades and friends sort of were pissed at us, we had leaped together into paraiah-hood. And neither of us said a word, and it was perfect. I had my hand on her knee, her hand on my hand. And the waves came in, and slipped back, and it was warm, and love, and not a word the whole time. On the walk home, we agreed that it was the best conversation we had ever had.

This sit was like that, except with my asshole.

Thanks my friend, this was the most I've laughed all week.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 4:38 PM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 12. 0:03:03 


There is a pause of sorts--- i do the sign of the cross before sits, closing my eyes as i do, and the last two sits have both had a sort of quiet without any trace of urgency. There is the in-breath, and a "sense" of that "in-spiration" finding its way downward gently, like water down the path of least resistance, easiest way wins, there is pang, there is delight, there is ease, there is pang, there is a sense of the surrounding inwardness of musculature in motion in ways i am just not moved to figure out, because the body really just seems to be doing it so well, there is pang, proof is in the pdding, there is pang, how the hell often do i need to clench my asshole to be sure i'm alive or whatever, the pang offers itself in its own time just fine, and there is pang, and relaxing, like it's the Dead Sea in here, so salty i can't sink, there is pang, and there is ding ding ding.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/16/20 5:23 PM
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April 16, 2020

sesshin day 4

sit 13.  0:03:04

Went in with fresh determination to note closely and qualitatively, and be more specific, and falling into a kind of blissed-out shorthand for a while there. So: my meditation "object" in this technique, after a few tweaks and freaks and begging for advice and then ignoring the advice and so on, is the sensation at the base of my spine, the point where the rubber meets the road, to to speak, the weight-bearing crux of the body in this chair-seated asana. It is the most immediately obvious sensation almost all the time, simply doing a body scan for where the action is.

There is in-breath, there is the pang at the base of the spine, sharper this late in the day, not quite painful, but sort of high-pitched, if that makes sense, like a struck champagne flute's note rather that a spoon clanking on a mason jar, primo ass note, toward soprano, there is a more or less continuously sensation, a rolling ripple of circumscribed sensate in the same pitch, with the body obviously moving "behind the scenes" to sustain the sensation, there is a sense of the exquisiteness of the near-pain quality of it, it is like nothing so much as the moment just before orgasm, that almost unbearable sustained tension, and there is that level of the sensation somehow held up by a variety of various bodily/muscular/balancing movements, so it amounts for much of the meditation to a very keen pre-orgasm high-pitched sustained exquisiteness, except for the occasional humorous thought of the extreme appearance of, shall we saw, having simply learned some kind of inner trick of erotic self-indulgence, and being exposed after all this time for the invisible masturbator that i have always been, always coming, never quite there. there is ding ding ding, timer ending the whole lewd fiasco.

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Tim Farrington:

There is in-breath, there is the pang at the base of the spine, sharper this late in the day, not quite painful, but sort of high-pitched, if that makes sense, like a struck champagne flute's note rather that a spoon clanking on a mason jar, primo ass note, toward soprano, there is a more or less continuously sensation, a rolling ripple of circumscribed sensate in the same pitch, with the body obviously moving "behind the scenes" to sustain the sensation, there is a sense of the exquisiteness of the near-pain quality of it, it is like nothing so much as the moment just before orgasm, that almost unbearable sustained tension, and there is that level of the sensation somehow held up by a variety of various bodily/muscular/balancing movements, so it amounts for much of the meditation to a very keen pre-orgasm high-pitched sustained exquisiteness, except for the occasional humorous thought of the extreme appearance of, shall we saw, having simply learned some kind of inner trick of erotic self-indulgence, and being exposed after all this time for the invisible masturbator that i have always been, always coming, never quite there. there is ding ding ding, timer ending the whole lewd fiasco.


Thanks Tim, reminds me how surprised I was when I learned that everything I had ever lusted after was a creation of my own mind and that I just been a wanker all along.
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 1.  0:06:18 (along to Papa Che's primer video on "There is . . ." technique of noting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhw0S-yWCjA 

So a bit of a reboot, this morning first thing, taking everything i've learned since i left the long long river cruise of a path of one type of meditation technique, with all its scenery and weather, its rapids and shallows, its wide placid stretches, and went over the edge of an abrupt waterfall into trying "vipassana" with a fresh beginner's mind and no cheats. I'm finding the wet fall lovely, so far, on the whole, though i did bounce off a boulder or two in the early flailing panic of realizing that whatever i had "chosen," there was now no going back. I do take comfort in gravity, continuing to take faith in the truth of that: i can only fall in the right direction. It is impossible to wander from the path of falling, it does itself. There is an old joke about a guy who jumps off the observation platform of the Empire State Building. As he goes past a window on the 78th floor, a guy hollers out at him, "How are you doing?" And the falling guy hollers back, "So far, so good!"

So far, so good.

The Papa Che video is very very simple noting, using a sort of refrain syllable of "There is," so that it becomes a kind of complete-the-sentence game. Emphasis on curiousity, wonder, easy pace, allowing everything, worrying about nothing. So at this point, technique wise, that is my practice: "There is" type noting, without any particular meditation object. I will begin with the obvious, and proceed from there, from interest to interest, what what presents itself to the next thing i am able to notice as it presents itself, withoutn urgency and without fear. 
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"So far, so good"

Ha! emoticon I like that one! Thanks for the giggle. 
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 2,  0:03:05


There is the high-pitched shrillness in both ears, first coffee kicking in, normal background too (i think it may be the antidepressants, but can't afford to do the experiment of going off them to find out), possible universal background noise from the Big Bang, and, as Linda and I have recently determined, it is the hum of Papa Che noting aloud at his usual speed, there is a breaking of the steady hum into beats, a tempo, a pulse, and a pulse, pssibly the real pulse, at the temples, there is the sensation at the base of the spine, on the Sitzpunkt, sharp and clear this morning, Old Faithful's good morning registering, there is a sustaining of the sensation, the body sort of conspiring around it to move along the surface in a caressing clockwise ripple, there is tension in the upper right chest, just behind the shoulder blade, participating in the manipulation of the sacral pang, there is interest in the possible counter-stretch to that, and attention to the upper left thigh, there is the left wrist resting near that spot, there is the timer dinging, there is joy, there is gratitude, i love this, and feel freed by the simplicity of it, monkey see, monkey do.
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That high-pitched whirling sound is my almost constant companion. I'm thinking that it's how the mind manifests its processing of the existence, at a vibrational level, but I really don't know. 
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 3.  0:02:49


There is a long deep in-breath, starting breath, there is the beloved sensation at the base of the spine, ground zero, welcoming, there is a sense of slow movement of the entire body, as if i'm dancing in almost infinitely slow motion, there is a caressing sustained evolution of the sacral sensation, there is attention bounce, right up into seeing, there is "seeing space," there is awareness of the dance motion continuing all around, there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, there is seeing, there is curiousity: is it call and response, a duet, are they doing the same thing but delivering the feedback characteristic of their sensory mode, in that sense's language, but saying the same thing? There is excitement, wanting to jump up and move, there is curiousity, Is the seeing and the pang simultaneous in "actuality," but sequential in perception? there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, like ping pong, the ping pong pang, there is excitement, there is delight, there is exitement, there is popping the fuck out of the meditation and checking the timer, and calling this one done short of its set interval. There is a cigarette outside in the cool wee hour darkness, and feeling joy that no one can possibly know how revved up i am, if i just manage to keep playing it cool here, that no one can be conscious of how FUCKING NUTS i am right now unless i am so self-conscious and stupid as to start telling them. They all think i'm a quiet decent guy, around here, with an occasionally wicked sense of humor. We want them to keep thinking that. Cool school, fool.
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Tim Farrington:
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 3.  0:02:49


There is a long deep in-breath, starting breath, there is the beloved sensation at the base of the spine, ground zero, welcoming, there is a sense of slow movement of the entire body, as if i'm dancing in almost infinitely slow motion, there is a caressing sustained evolution of the sacral sensation, there is attention bounce, right up into seeing, there is "seeing space," there is awareness of the dance motion continuing all around, there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, there is seeing, there is curiousity: is it call and response, a duet, are they doing the same thing but delivering the feedback characteristic of their sensory mode, in that sense's language, but saying the same thing? There is excitement, wanting to jump up and move, there is curiousity, Is the seeing and the pang simultaneous in "actuality," but sequential in perception? there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, there is seeing, there is the sacral sensation, like ping pong, the ping pong pang, there is excitement, there is delight, there is exitement, there is popping the fuck out of the meditation and checking the timer, and calling this one done short of its set interval. There is a cigarette outside in the cool wee hour darkness, and feeling joy that no one can possibly know how revved up i am, if i just manage to keep playing it cool here, that no one can be conscious of how FUCKING NUTS i am right now unless i am so self-conscious and stupid as to start telling them. They all think i'm a quiet decent guy, around here, with an occasionally wicked sense of humor. We want them to keep thinking that. Cool school, fool.

As I read this - Elton John is singing away in the distance (literally, on the radio, not figuratively). 

"And I think it's gonna be a long long time
'Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man"
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Since The Bar of Last Resort is located in the Dark Night neighborhood of DhO, this little prayer to John of the Cross seems appropriate. Plus i have just learned this siddhi of digging old shit out of the depths of a folder beneath a pile, beneath junk, under some dirty clothes, and scanning it. May i use this power wisely and appropriately, for the good of all beings, amen.

Plus, fun as shit!
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Tim Farrington:
Since The Bar of Last Resort is located in the Dark Night neighborhood of DhO, this little prayer to John of the Cross seems appropriate. Plus i have just learned this siddhi of digging old shit out of the depths of a folder beneath a pile, beneath junk, under some dirty clothes, and scanning it. May i use this power wisely and appropriately, for the good of all beings, amen.

Plus, fun as shit!


Don't have energy to read these, but I love the font!
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

Sit 4.  0:01:59

There is joy, at how easy it is to sit, with this short time interval, there are thoughts, there is in-breath, there is the sacral pang, the breath "touching" it, there is joy, there is the "sense," unsensate, of the body in motion around the sensate root, there is seeing, there is curiousity, and wanting to "see" if seeing and sensing can be simultaneous, a chord, not sequential notes, there is Yes!, they can there is seeing and the sensation both happening, while the body moves, there is literal, physical movement of the head, body english on the sense of doing a movement that keeps both this seeing and this feeling alive at the same moment, there is This is like doing a hula hoop, in super slow motion, a "sense of involvement throughout the entire body from the hips up, to sustain the simultaneity of this chord inside the "image" of spiraling, there is excitement, there is fun, there is eyes popping the fuck open, there is Oh well, mania, whatcha gonna do?
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 5.  0:02:14

There is a moment, sort of clueless, there is oh yeah right, there is in-breath, there is the welcoming of the sensation from Home Base Sitzpunkt, like a dog wagging its tail when the guy comes home, there is joy, there is astonishment, there is gratitude, there is the hula-hooping gestalt, feeling the modulation of the spine sensation as the rest of the body mysteriously does something to heighten, focus, play with it, there is the leap to seeing, there is the interest in keeping both seeing and feeling going, there is the hula-hoop thing hitting its max limit toward the upper right, somewhere outside of the head, and there is a spontaneous head movement, literal head movement, left, and straightening the posture, which had drifted, there is a ton of fucking excitement and yeah, folks, he's gone, the fucker can't sit still, he LITERALLY CAN NOT SIT STILL for three fucking minutes.
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for those who may be interested in the psychosis-watch aspect of this sesshin, the unfolding of a manic episode in real time, this little bit, an early articulation of the very expensive body of self-knowledge that I now formally think of as Mania Protocol:
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I'm terrible at understanding lyrics. Also at writing lyrics. emoticon 

Would that be Mania itself or more of a Fear of possible manic attack? 

Im asking because back in my full blown paranoia and panic attack days I would not only get panic attacks but also panic that I will get a panic attack. If this makes sense. Kind of fear of fear. 

I hope you are feeling good now. 
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Papa Che Dusko:
I'm terrible at understanding lyrics. Also at writing lyrics. emoticon 

Would that be Mania itself or more of a Fear of possible manic attack? 

Im asking because back in my full blown paranoia and panic attack days I would not only get panic attacks but also panic that I will get a panic attack. If this makes sense. Kind of fear of fear. 


Yeah, you get that, it's both. I am manic as fuck, no doubt, and i am--- not afraid, but very very vigilant in what i call Mania Protocol, determined to first do no harm, to not leak into my environment, to not be a danger to myself of others, and to do my best to not scare, alarm, freak out, or otherwise cause dukha in anyone over my condition.

I hope you are feeling good now. 


well, i am. I actually checked in this morning via facebook message with my state of the art Person Who Actually Loves Me for the Crazy Fuck I am, who is also my lifesaver in that even if i don't care if i survive, she always does: the one with the best eye on me. Her main concern during my manias is that i not get kicked out of this viable paradise place where i live now among people who know and generally like me, because she's seen homeless me run off into the Dismal Swamp without a penny in my pocket and just fucking disappear for a while. So there are seasoned professionals on close Tim watch.

Beyond a certain point, it's just my karma and my dharma, crazy fucker just gotta do what crazy fucker gonna do. If you get worried, it will slow me way down, i assure you, so be frank there, all feedback welcome. But I am surrendered to being judged by the fruits, in the long run and the short run, and my best assessment right now is that the fruits are, at the very least, not toxic. Not to everyone's or even anyone's taste, for sure--- like lyrics emoticon. But posing no danger. Tell me if you think i'm wrong, though. I count on you, i really do. You the one with my six.

On the other hand, if at any point you just want to wash your hands of any responsibility as you witness a car wreck in slow motion and feel the driver is just fucking too hell-bent, no harm, no foul, and find yourself a safe distance for the duration. You know i love you. And there are worse things than being locked up, if it comes to that. They give me three meals a day, on the wards, and i start gaining back the weight i've lost in ceasless dissipative wandering.

love you, thanks. emoticon
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". But posing no danger. Tell me if you think i'm wrong, though."

Hm ... emoticon this practice can bring about all sorts of feelings and even angst, edginess of grand proportions too. It can make one feel overwhelmed with sensory input the more sensitive one become which can be of an issue if people or kids keep throwing flowing river of words and attitudes at one. And so on. 

So ... 

That being said, there is a very good reason behind Ingram saying , try to get your life in order a bit. Find ways to balance out, ground, Metta, longer walks, even let go of Dhamma pondering all the time and watch a movie of sort like Forest Gump emoticon 

So ... 

Only you know how you feel now. If emotions start glaring up STOP with freestyle noting. There are other more calming practices one can do as a prep for insight plowing. 

Mind you;
I have managed to get rid of my paranoia and panic attacks with Ki-breathing (6 months)
Before that probably 6 more months Reiki self-healing with hands on my body (there is a sequence how one does this so to cover all body). 

I like to think that all this + Calm-abiding Shamatha has impact on my Noting practice. 

Tell me what you think. 
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Another thing to mention;

I used to live with my panic attack/paranoia/flashbacks for years and had no idea I had an issue. I never shared this with anyone either. I just tried to live with it. 

It's not until DN cracked me right open (2011) that all hell broke loose and my ex-wife (then wife and now still my partner) begged me to seek psychiatric help. So I did, they labeled me with PTSD and I was on SSRI since then. 

Each time I would discontinue them I would dip back into the shit hole. So I made sure to take them. 

Sometime last year I felt to stop with them and still see no need to get back to using meds. 

Im not familiar with Manic-depression though. 
You the expert here for that. I trust you have a good feel on it. 
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Papa Che Dusko:
Another thing to mention;

I used to live with my panic attack/paranoia/flashbacks for years and had no idea I had an issue. I never shared this with anyone either. I just tried to live with it. 

It's not until DN cracked me right open (2011) that all hell broke loose and my ex-wife (then wife and now still my partner) begged me to seek psychiatric help. So I did, they labeled me with PTSD and I was on SSRI since then. 

Thank you for that sharing. I went through my own verion of it and first went on meds in 2000, SNRI in my case. 

Each time I would discontinue them I would dip back into the shit hole. So I made sure to take them. Sometime last year I felt to stop with them and still see no need to get back to using meds. 

I am still on mine, and get suicidal within a week, last time i checked, when i tried to go off them. (one reason i am going to the store today is to get my prescription refilled in plenty of time)


Im not familiar with Manic-depression though. 

Yeah, it's the manic part that's tricky right now. SNRI, like your stuff, is an anti-depressant. If anything, it brings a slight chance of actually causing some mania, though i've discussed this at great length with my psychiatrist, especially during my last semi-big one two years ago, and we're both convinced i'm better off staying on the SNRI.

You the expert here for that. I trust you have a good feel on it. 

Yeah, it does come down to trust. We know this is risky shit. But I'm a professional at this, a combat veteran of every war since the 1970s. I feel like i'm better off in the gentle sesshin structure right now than anything else. I think i can handle the gentleness of these meditations, at this baby pace. And i intend to see whether i right or not in the only way you really can beyond a certain point, which is simply staying all in and seeing how it goes. Hospitalization, and maybe shitting in the nest of my beautiful community here and losing my spot in eden, are certainly horrifying outcomes, and i would use all the skill and craft and wiliness and cunning and creativity and grounding at my not-too-shabby-on-such-stuff disposal to avoid those outcomes. But beyond that point where i'm all in, what can anyone do but see how it plays out? A condition of complete simplicity, costing not less than everything, T.S. Eliot said. I'm all in on that.

I love you. Thank you for your concern. Your friendship means the world to me.

mmm
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Papa Che Dusko:
". But posing no danger. Tell me if you think i'm wrong, though."

Hm ... emoticon this practice can bring about all sorts of feelings and even angst, edginess of grand proportions too. It can make one feel overwhelmed with sensory input the more sensitive one become which can be of an issue if people or kids keep throwing flowing river of words and attitudes at one. And so on. 

My own honest assessment is that I'm okay, Papa Che. I love the practice right now. 

That being said, there is a very good reason behind Ingram saying , try to get your life in order a bit. Find ways to balance out, ground, Metta, longer walks, even let go of Dhamma pondering all the time and watch a movie of sort like Forest Gump

emoticon

 I have to go to the store today, which will be a good grounding outing and period of high alert sobriety.


Only you know how you feel now. If emotions start glaring up STOP with freestyle noting. There are other more calming practices one can do as a prep for insight plowing. 

I did go back to the more grounding asshole-as-meditation-object on my last round, which i haven't written up yet, and also tweaked the timer back to two minutes, and I got through it happy. I will do that until i am demonstrably stabilized there.


Mind you;

I have managed to get rid of my paranoia and panic attacks with Ki-breathing (6 months)

Before that probably 6 more months Reiki self-healing with hands on my body (there is a sequence how one does this so to cover all body). 

I like to think that all this + Calm-abiding Shamatha has impact on my Noting practice. 

Yes, and calm-abiding shamatha is my easiest go-to fallback anyway.


Tell me what you think. 


I think I'm good, and probably even capable of judging when to try vipassana noting, "There is" variation, again. But this is not entirely about what i think. Your reading of me, your own caution, your own concern, are very real factors. I intend to proceed with you or without you right now, and as long as i continue to believe i can. And i can imagine there would be a point where you, as a responsible professional, would just have to go on record as advising me to back off for a while. And i would take that under humble and thorough advisement, and proceed as i always have, AMA. I won't shut this down, but i won't hold it against you, if in your own dharma as a friend and advisor, you feel like the only responsible thing you can do for me is deliver your best warning light and back way off, let me do what i choose beyond that.

emoticon But I'm good, man, i mean it. I got this.
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again, along the fault line, the fracture, earthquake country, mania and meditation related difficulties, difficulties relating meditationally, relatively meditative difficulties, etc., the double helix of mania and practice---

with time pretty much up for grabs, this arising into awareness from 1993 is weirdly descriptive of, and contemporaneous with, my most recent meditation moments in 2020:
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 6.  0:01:13


There is in-breath, there is the welcoming ache in my ass, there is joy, there is the fire hose stream of thoughts, every one more brilliant than the last, burning to be told in vast detail to the next stranger i meet when i charge down the street . . . and he's up, folks.


note: the sine curve of manic energy clearly toward a high side. I take comfort in the fact that i topped out yesterday at 0:00:03, about as much time with my ass in the chair as it takes for an attention bounce, faster than Chris Marti's shortest meditation of five seconds, when he hit his head on a flower pot, so maybe i was motivated by one-upsmanship there anyway, or just plain showing off.
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day

sit 7.  0:02:00

note: i reset my timer to 2 minutes for this one, given the downward trend of late, and made it fine, so will begin growing the interval again from there. I also switched from the purer "There is" vipassana noting to a more grounded, shamatha-flavored meditation with the pain in my ass the the meditation object. I will still use "There is" vocabulary, but this technique is really a simple duet, the object and everything else, the kazoo and the orchestra, as Daniel puts it somewhere.

There is in-breath, there is the pain in the ass (PIA), welcomed and reassuring, there is a sense of dark warm waters swirling, there is the sensate pulse of the offered PIA, solid, not sharp, there is knowing that if i don't hit the full time on this meditation it will look worrisome to those who have their eye on the daring old man on the flying trapeze, there is Old Faithul, my beloved PIA, that direct line to life on earth, like a lighthouse beam, keeping me off the rocks, there is a big swimming bunch of this and that that i could care less about except for the pleasure it gives me to just ride through, there is PIA, like the prize bell, there is the timer chiming, hah, bingo.
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April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 8.  0:02:01


sticking with uber-grounding shamatha attention to my asshole's song for now.


There is PIA, singing ever so sweetly, there is all manner of other shit, and a constant voice in the background dictating letters to everyone who's got a concerned eye on me, telling them with great and exemplary sobriety, sanity, discretion, and common sense that I've got this shit right now, honestly, trust me. Ding. 
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re: His current behavior in public.


after my calming meditation, i was sitting outside smoking a very grounding cigarette, when my neighbor Dan and his wife Selena come out and starting puttering around their car, preparing to go somewhere, not fifteen feet away from me. I was behind them, and in the shade, so relatively invisible, but there we all were. I not only refrained in the face of a strong, nay, a very strong urge to start singing."Oh Danny boy, the pipes the pipes are calling . . ." in my best fake Irish tenor, i made not a sound at all, as a test, just a test, of the Emergency Invisibility Siddhi. And eventually, after what seemed to me an astoundingly long time to not become aware of someone sitting fifteen feet away with literal smoke coming out of him, they got into their car and drove off.

Mania Mastery 1, Public Nuisance 0.
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:33 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:33 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2722 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Tim Farrington:

Mania Mastery 1, Public Nuisance 0.
 
No doubt in my mind, you got this TFF.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 2:54 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 2:54 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2680 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
agnostic:
Tim Farrington:

Mania Mastery 1, Public Nuisance 0.
 
No doubt in my mind, you got this TFF.


Had to look up that TFF as I'm not native to your language. There is;
Talk Fantasy Football 
and
Too F...ing Funny

In either way I don't see this as helpful Dhamma instruction. Rather it's showing how (apparently) cleaver you are and how apparently he is totally not getting this. Here I see you putting him rather down. In his own practice thread where he only talked about that one instance of having urge to start singing and he managed to stop it and just watch it. 

I think Tim did great in this situation. 

But you agnostic lad are now in my "smells fishy" book. And I thought you are a 3rd Pather with some sort of Wisdom and Compassion and sense for Wholsome. Am I wrong? Maybe you an Arahant? I guess here is the answer to the debate; 
we don't loose self as we awaken. We simply awaken to the self we always were. Sub selves maybe but still that very stuff we always had with us. 
You likely forgot to do you loundery afterwards pal. 

Of course may you be happy at heart, free from afflictions may no harm come to you. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:40 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:40 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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I think you may have misunderstood agnostic, Papa Che. TFF are Tim's initials, and I took agnostic's comment as a friendly assuring for Tim that he believes in him with regard to dealing with the rest of the unfolding of the bipolar ride, from one seeker/non-seeker to another (no, he's not an arahant, for cryin' out loud, and never said he was).

As for the ban, Tim asked me very sincerely - in more than one letter - to have Chris's back with regard to the ban. Tim is fully aware that he broke the rules, and he wasn't going to stop. Sometimes it is helpful to set clear boundaries before too much harm is done. Tim actually called Chris a hero for stepping in and doing what he had to do even thought it meant shutting down a friend. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 4:44 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 4:44 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Oh I see. In that case my apologies to sir agnostic! Indeed I have jumped to conclusions.

Im not familiar with what thread led to all this and to be honest I dont care much especially if its about self vs non-self vs fincional characters vs no free will vs awakened zombie etc ... emoticon 

When such pondering arise in me I try to Touch the Earth and follow the KISS rule by Mr. Buddha "in seeing there is only the seen, refering back to no one". When I try to remove the splinter from my finger there is no self in that instant, only care, intent, focus, breathing, looking ... refering back to no one, and yet its still me doing this to me emoticon Why are folks not ok with this whole thing simply being a PARADOX? Like a push-pull and middle way being the invinsible line between the Not-Two.
Sub-Me's arising and passing and playing well in the kindergarden.

Once again sorry for being too fast and judging. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 5:03 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 5:03 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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The way I see it, it's a paradox and not a paradox at the same time, which is of course yet another level of paradox. emoticon

Yes, it's paradoxical, and yet we are here, feeling stuff and dealing with a now that is in the midst of unfolding. I for one am going to enjoy that as best as I can. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 5:28 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 5:27 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Yes it's lovely being a being that's tapped into this-ness. I'm playing right now with my 4yo son and explain why he shouldn't break the buds from a blueberry bush emoticon He now hugged the bush after realizing that they provide blueberries and oxygen and bees with pollen and nectar which in turn make lovely honey. emoticon 
Some might see this as Papa using many words like I, me and mine hence very uncool. emoticon 
I find only uncool me forgetting to leave this phone in the house so not to fall prey to the urge to pick it up instead of being with my 4yo lovely being. 
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 6:23 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 6:23 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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Papa Che Dusko:
Oh I see. In that case my apologies to sir agnostic! Indeed I have jumped to conclusions.

Im not familiar with what thread led to all this and to be honest I dont care much especially if its about self vs non-self vs fincional characters vs no free will vs awakened zombie etc ... emoticon 

When such pondering arise in me I try to Touch the Earth and follow the KISS rule by Mr. Buddha "in seeing there is only the seen, refering back to no one". When I try to remove the splinter from my finger there is no self in that instant, only care, intent, focus, breathing, looking ... refering back to no one, and yet its still me doing this to me emoticon Why are folks not ok with this whole thing simply being a PARADOX? Like a push-pull and middle way being the invinsible line between the Not-Two.
Sub-Me's arising and passing and playing well in the kindergarden.

Once again sorry for being too fast and judging. 


Hey Che!

No problem! TF are his initials and the extra 'F' is ... well I'll leave you to guess that. You know how TF likes to banter. Tim would love to see you in the newly re-furbished Bar of Last Resort if you like.

Cheers
agnostic

PS Just to be clear, I'm not 4th path or an arahant because in my opinion that is not a personal attainment and no-one becomes that. And that's not just false modesty or reverse psychology, I really believe it!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 7:38 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 7:38 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

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What Bar? On another forum?
George S, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 7:48 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 7:47 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2722 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko:
What Bar? On another forum?

Check your Messages, or you can just email Tim directly.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:06 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:06 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 9.  0:02:02


Pure shamatha session, strong agitation, taking refuge in the technique.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:35 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:35 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 10.  0:02:03

shamatha pratice with PIA as meditation object. Definitely rooiled and agitated, but taking comfort in the Lord of my ass.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:49 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 8:49 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 11. 0:02:04


pure bhakti shamatha, rooted in the root chakra. Beloved asshole, what time I am afraid, I will trust in thee.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:08 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:08 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 12.  0:02:05


Samatha practice, PIA as object. Nothing here but the Word made flesh where my ass meets the chair. That, and a full bladder, it turned out. One of the sub-subnanas of dukha.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:21 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:21 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 13.  0:02:06


This asshole's here to stay.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:43 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 9:43 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin, day 5

sit 14.  0:02:07


This ass-hole of mine

is where compassion's planted

on this lovely earth
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:17 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:17 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 15.  0:02:08


I might as well be sitting on a rock.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:32 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:32 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 16.  0:02:09

note: all the way back to repurposed rosary/mala, basic old practice of body-breath-word, for grounding.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:50 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:50 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 17.  0:02:10


the old 1-2-3 prayer, body breath and word. I can do this until they shut down the bar in hell, that's what it was designed for.
Tim Farrington, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:01 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:01 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2464 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Practice log

April 17, 2020

sesshin day 5

sit 18.  0:03:00


body . . . breath . . .word.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:58 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:58 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Tim -- you are the one who got banned seems like -- my guesses where either you or Agnostic.
Sorry brother. I'll write to you on your email! Hope to see you here again soon.

Mike.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 2:38 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 2:38 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 2680 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Mike Smirnoff:
Tim -- you are the one who got banned seems like -- my guesses where either you or Agnostic.
Sorry brother. I'll write to you on your email! Hope to see you here again soon.

Mike.

Oh I see Tim was banned. Not sure why but Ok (also I don't care why) One suggestion to MODERTOR emoticon 

If banning is needed ok I get that but please try to do this instead;
Ban Tim from all parts of the forum except THIS practice thread of his. I'm sure Admin can give him only Permission to post in this practice thread and lock the rest so he can go around the neiborhood stepping on peoples flower beds. 

What do you say to that @Chris Marti 

Just a suggestion. 


Take care you all (incl Tim) 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:54 PM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/17/20 11:54 PM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 7134 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
The Bar of Last Resort has been relocated due to reparations. We are sorry for the inconvenience.
Friends of the bar owner Tim are welcome to send their orders directly to tim_farrington@msn.com. 
Mike Smirnoff, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 12:27 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 12:11 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Wondering if Tim's email address was given out with his permission?
Just want to make sure.


Edit: Also wondering, with all due respect, if the permission was taken before  or after posting Tim's email address (that is before

4/17/20 11:54 PM -- per the time it is showing of postings on my screen here), if indeed, a permission has been asked for. Just wondering.

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:22 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:22 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 7134 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Mike Smirnoff:
Wondering if Tim's email address was given out with his permission?
Just want to make sure.


Edit: Also wondering, with all due respect, if the permission was taken before  or after posting Tim's email address (that is before

4/17/20 11:54 PM -- per the time it is showing of postings on my screen here), if indeed, a permission has been asked for. Just wondering.

He asked me to post his email address. Otherwise I would not have done it. I didn't ask him. He asked me. Okay?
Mike Smirnoff, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:36 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:36 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Thanks for letting me know.
As I said, I was just wondering.

Mike.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:41 AM
Created 3 Years ago at 4/18/20 3:41 AM

RE: Equanimity? Help, please, thanks.

Posts: 7134 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Of course. No problem. His integrity is important.