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Reobservation = revolt

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Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 2:59 PM
I just realize that the perfect english word for "reobservation" is "revolt".

ah, and interesting that it has the etimology of rolling back, similar to rolling up the mat emoticon

mid 16th century: from French révolte (noun), révolter (verb), from Italian rivoltare, based on Latin revolvere ‘roll back’ (see revolve).

that is all.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
Answer
3/20/20 3:58 PM as a reply to shargrol.
It does lose the aspect of the nana which is to look back at all the prior insights in total.  But it gains more of the emotional mood of the nana.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 4:20 PM as a reply to shargrol.
Similar to throw up. As in when I think about reobservation I want to throw up

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 4:31 PM as a reply to Dustin.
Am I really the only one who has a weird attachment to reobservation? It must be some need for revolt...

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 4:40 PM as a reply to shargrol.
"Sire, the meditators are revolting!"   

"Not all of them, Rudy, not all of them. Some still wash."

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 6:04 PM as a reply to shargrol.
A rare post started by shargrol. I hope this continues.

The way I understand or personally use the word "revolt", would be akin to "fighting back". However, if I have truly spent time in this stage as mapped by other practitioners, I was pitiful. At my weakest.

Also googling "revolt", the second meaning (after "rise in rebellion") is basically "disgust".

Rolling up the mat seems to be less about fighting back (my opinion). It would me more about being sick & tired (AKA disgusted) and giving up. 

Or maybe both definitions apply and I just don't have the "knowledge" part down. "Knowledge of Reobservation".

RE: Reobservation = revolt
Answer
3/20/20 6:27 PM as a reply to Hibiscus Kid.
Hibiscus Kid:

The way I understand or personally use the word "revolt", would be akin to "fighting back". However, if I have truly spent time in this stage as mapped by other practitioners, I was pitiful. At my weakest.


Right, your stuff (reactive patterns) was revolting against you!  emoticon

This is like the last stand for the reactive patterns. Either they get you to stop meditating or... they surrender ....and there is acceptance ...and eventually equanimity.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/20/20 8:07 PM as a reply to shargrol.
Excellent! I love this answer! Thank you!

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/21/20 2:07 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Am I really the only one who has a weird attachment to reobservation? It must be some need for revolt...

Nope, i've spent more time there than i'd like to admit. Lately i've noticed that revolt can manifest as wanting to correct people on the internet. I see someone post something and I want to get in an argument, even though I know it's pointless and reactive. When i'm in EQ or other nanas I don't really feel that desire, or it comes from a place of wanting to help versus correct.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/21/20 4:21 AM as a reply to Lars.
I still want to help in reobservation, but my idea of what is helpful gets clouded, and it gets corrupted by reactivity that stems from fear.

But what I meant is that parts of me seem to enjoy the feeling of reobservation and don't want to let go of it. They enjoy the intensity of it and the mindracing and find the agitated energy motivating. They enjoy that things are happening.

Some of them enjoy being torn apart and long for the annihilation. Others enjoy that the illusion of a self is at a peak because it makes them feel in control and on top of the world. Paradoxically, both those very different attachments lead to clinging to the nana. That is due to misconceptions about what the annihilation is in the first case, focusing on the destruction rather than the liberation. In the second case, it is of cource due to a misconception about the possibility of being in control and of being something continuous and separate. The first case shares that latter misconception as well, which is why it thinks that there is something there that needs to be annihilated or even "punished" for the sake of purification, and so it goes all in as if it were in some kind of BDSM relationship with "the Process" as its master. Thus, indirectly, since both these rather opposite reaction patterns become allies in clinging to the polarization of reobservation, it seems like the "master" in that relationship is really the deluded ego that enjoys being on top of the world, and so it becomes something self-absorbed and ludicrous and self-perpetuating. I'm in the process of letting go of this.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/21/20 7:04 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Reobservation, I mean. revolt without suffering is sort of like being the queen of the domain, looking over her high balcony and seeing all the peasants squabiling and wanting to revolt. It's exciting, there's a buzz in the air, there's a sense of threat, but the queen knows she has all the food and water she needs and the peasants aren't going to be able to defeat the castle. emoticon

And reobservation is full of that bittersweet feeling of purification, like a hard massage, it kinda hurts so good...  

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/21/20 9:39 AM as a reply to shargrol.
Exactly!

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3/21/20 10:01 AM as a reply to shargrol.
Queue the hand-burning scene from Fight Club...

Yes, it’s overdramatic and on-the-nose, but so is Reobservation 

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/21/20 12:55 PM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
Reobservation, I mean. revolt without suffering is sort of like being the queen of the domain, looking over her high balcony and seeing all the peasants squabiling and wanting to revolt. It's exciting, there's a buzz in the air, there's a sense of threat, but the queen knows she has all the food and water she needs and the peasants aren't going to be able to defeat the castle. emoticon

And reobservation is full of that bittersweet feeling of purification, like a hard massage, it kinda hurts so good...  

"if there's no bread, let them eat cake"

(off with her head)

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/29/20 6:11 AM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
Reobservation, I mean. revolt without suffering is sort of like being the queen of the domain, looking over her high balcony and seeing all the peasants squabiling and wanting to revolt. It's exciting, there's a buzz in the air, there's a sense of threat, but the queen knows she has all the food and water she needs and the peasants aren't going to be able to defeat the castle. emoticon

And reobservation is full of that bittersweet feeling of purification, like a hard massage, it kinda hurts so good...  

I think of some lines from Jeremiah, in Lamentations 3 (i am partial to the King James Version translation, with all due cultural acknowledgments qualifications etc.): "Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall: My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. This I recall to mind, therefore have I hope."

There is that point of humbled, spent resonance with all aspects of your wonderfully fruitful translation of reobservation here as "revolt." We remember the disgust phase, how revolting it all was; we remember revolting against all the shit and desiring only liberation at whatever cost, and the fiery lucid determination of that revolt; and we have revolved through all of it, turned and re-turned and turned again, to a point of somehow seeing it all clearly enough that it doesn't hurt too much to see it clearly (a punkish way of speaking of the relief that kinda hurts so good, here, but I place great value on "bearabilty," given all I know about what feels unbearable). There is no going back from this "revolt," and ahead is only the mystery of equanimity, that doingless necessity that must be done, that impossible desire that can afford to want nothing, and the knowledge that the r/evolution spins on.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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3/31/20 2:59 PM as a reply to shargrol.
I think of reobservation pretty much as unmedicated ADHD, because that's what it often feels like to me (which is probably part of why I have had the previously mentioned attachment to reobservation - it feels so incredibly familiar after having spent most of my life undiagnosed and thus unmedicated). I have actually found that the Meyers Briggs personality test very consistently categorizes my personality as INFP when medicated with ADHD medication on a regular basis and as INFJ when I have been unmedicated for a longer period. That is the difference between a diplomate and an advocate, which relates very nicely to revolt. Another aspect of ADHD, as most of you probably know, is that one is very easily distracted and unable to filter out sensations from the periphery. ADHD medication helps the brain to strengthen some sensory input (the focus) and filter out others. Furthermore, the ADHD brain spins very fast (until it crashes, which may result in bad mood). So all you people who find reobservation challenging and need some input on how to cope with it, find someone who copes well with (unmedicated) ADHD and ask them. I don't think taking ADHD medicines without ADHD would be a good idea, though, even if it would help (which it most likely would not, since the underlying cause differs), because there are important lessons to learn from dealing with reobservation without cheating. 

Stuff that my ADHD brain thinks (or rather that some processes identifying with my ADHD brain think) about while trying to do shamatha during reobservation... emoticon ...and yet I managed to get into jhana several times; I just didn't stay there long because I was too restless to maintain a stable intention. 

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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4/4/20 1:14 PM as a reply to shargrol.
I didn't read the other posts. Initially I found that I wanted to revolt and cast my shadow towards reobservarion. And yet that same shadow now points to desire for deliverance.

Edit. Another point is that if you learn to skip over desire for deliverence. That is something.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
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4/29/20 3:30 AM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
I just realize that the perfect english word for "reobservation" is "revolt".

ah, and interesting that it has the etimology of rolling back, similar to rolling up the mat emoticon

mid 16th century: from French révolte (noun), révolter (verb), from Italian rivoltare, based on Latin revolvere ‘roll back’ (see revolve).

that is all.

RE: Reobservation = revolt
Answer
4/29/20 10:50 AM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
Right, your stuff (reactive patterns) was revolting against you!  emoticon

This is like the last stand for the reactive patterns. Either they get you to stop meditating or... they surrender ....and there is acceptance ...and eventually equanimity.


And now after reading this, with my practice lately being focused on surrender and 'letting go of', or the 'dying' of the delusion of 'self', it seems I may currently be in Reobservation.  I had assumed I was in EQ for about the past week.  But it also seems from what I read and from my own experience that EQ has a fluidity to it, even more so than the other stages, and so I may just be bouncing back and forth between reobservation and EQ.  Or, maybe I'm just in Dissolution, the entrance to the Dark Night!