Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/9/20 10:53 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/9/20 11:16 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? 4 4/9/20 11:24 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 11:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/9/20 11:55 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 12:00 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? 4 4/9/20 12:58 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 1:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? shargrol 4/9/20 12:02 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Nikolai . 4/10/20 1:43 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 1:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 4:13 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/10/20 4:22 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Nikolai . 4/10/20 7:26 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? shargrol 4/10/20 6:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 6:57 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 7:42 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/10/20 7:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 8:04 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 8:11 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 8:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 8:33 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 8:40 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 8:44 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 8:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 8:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 8:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 9:03 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 9:04 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 9:06 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 9:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 9:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/11/20 1:18 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Steph . 4/11/20 3:29 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/11/20 3:38 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/11/20 1:45 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/11/20 5:23 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/11/20 9:02 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/11/20 11:38 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/12/20 3:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/12/20 3:42 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/12/20 4:02 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/12/20 4:04 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/11/20 8:56 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Griffin 4/11/20 11:55 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/11/20 1:40 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Steph . 4/17/20 10:27 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/11/20 8:47 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/10/20 12:25 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 12:35 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/10/20 12:48 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/10/20 1:02 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 7:25 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/10/20 7:34 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/10/20 7:34 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:02 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? shargrol 4/9/20 12:12 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 12:31 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 12:36 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 12:40 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:45 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 12:55 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 1:00 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 1:03 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 1:12 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 1:24 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/11/20 1:33 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 2:29 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Siavash ' 4/9/20 2:56 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 3:10 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/9/20 3:21 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Milo 4/9/20 2:08 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? T 4/10/20 6:39 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:36 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:40 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? shargrol 4/9/20 2:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/9/20 2:17 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/9/20 12:47 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:52 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/9/20 11:53 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/9/20 12:00 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 1:36 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/17/20 6:20 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:26 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Griffin 4/20/20 4:24 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/23/20 11:55 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/23/20 11:58 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/23/20 12:01 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/23/20 12:05 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/23/20 1:57 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/23/20 5:30 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/23/20 5:32 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 5:43 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/24/20 6:01 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 6:03 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/24/20 6:07 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 6:16 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/24/20 6:21 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 6:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/24/20 6:50 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 6:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Papa Che Dusko 4/24/20 7:48 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/24/20 7:58 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/24/20 6:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Siavash ' 4/24/20 6:27 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/24/20 6:28 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 8:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 8:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 8:53 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/25/20 8:59 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 9:21 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 9:26 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/25/20 9:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 9:38 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 9:36 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 9:19 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 10:12 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 10:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 10:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 10:46 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 10:42 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/25/20 11:05 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 11:09 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 11:19 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 11:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Siavash ' 4/25/20 11:09 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/25/20 1:31 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Siavash ' 4/25/20 3:38 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 11:17 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 10:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 10:57 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 11:17 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 11:19 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 11:21 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 11:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 11:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 12:32 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 12:34 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 1:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 1:07 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 1:19 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/25/20 1:22 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/25/20 1:26 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 8:47 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/26/20 9:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 9:18 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/26/20 9:58 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 10:34 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 11:22 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? shargrol 4/26/20 9:59 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Steph . 4/26/20 10:46 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 10:33 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 10:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 11:41 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 11:51 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 12:18 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 12:23 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 6:46 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/27/20 6:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/27/20 6:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/27/20 7:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/27/20 7:31 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/27/20 7:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/27/20 8:23 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/27/20 4:33 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Siavash ' 4/27/20 5:19 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? T 4/28/20 6:26 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:33 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/26/20 11:56 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/26/20 12:13 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/27/20 5:57 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 5:56 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:00 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:06 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:11 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:12 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:37 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:40 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 6:50 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:54 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 6:52 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Smiling Stone 4/28/20 9:41 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 10:01 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/28/20 10:39 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 11:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/28/20 12:51 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 1:18 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/28/20 4:04 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/28/20 9:56 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Smiling Stone 4/28/20 11:15 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/28/20 4:09 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Brandon Dayton 4/29/20 9:26 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/29/20 9:49 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/24/20 6:02 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:24 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/17/20 6:27 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:28 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:29 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:33 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:40 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:47 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:50 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Steph . 4/17/20 10:22 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 12:09 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Steph . 4/17/20 12:20 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 12:38 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/17/20 6:32 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:33 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Chris M 4/17/20 6:35 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/17/20 6:41 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:40 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? Tim Farrington 4/17/20 6:29 AM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? George S 4/9/20 12:39 PM
RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs? John H 4/20/20 12:54 AM
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 10:53 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 10:53 AM

Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
I keep reading references to Chris Marti's practice logs, but I can't find anything via search. Anyone have a link?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:16 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:16 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2399 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Him carved them eut of DhO and locked them into a chest, which he hid on an island known to no men! And the key to this chest he hides under his many tanticles!
Hibiscus Kid, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:24 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:17 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 18 Join Date: 5/3/18 Recent Posts
http://awakenetwork.org/magazine/cmarti/70

Edit: The link is correct but the server is being finicky. It may take a few attempts to open. 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:52 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:52 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The diary I made is not on DhO. It's on another system that some of us created when the Great Schism occurred on another system we created when the Great Schism occurred here.

Cue shargrol!
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:55 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:55 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Just started reading. Nothing like starting a log with a description of Stream Entry! How much practice preceded this?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:00 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:59 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Zen - about six years
Classic Theravada - about two years
Pragmatic Theravada - about a year ( post-second reading of MCTB )
Hibiscus Kid, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:58 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:58 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 18 Join Date: 5/3/18 Recent Posts
Oh wow, I was not aware that first path was preceded by so many years of practice. It seems your progress accelerated rapidly after that point so I just figured you were a meditation natural who was ripe for it. 

I know it's pointless to compare how long first path takes as it's different for everyone, but it normalizes it for those of us who take longer to get there. Based on what I've seen, some practitioners seem to get first path within a year if not only a few months of solid, consistent practice with a teacher. Good to see this works... eventually.  
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:13 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:13 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I'm one of those who got stream entry rapidly, but that is a relative thing. Before that, I avoided formal meditation entirely for twenty years because it scared the crap out of me as a teenager. Then I did some attempts at meditating without knowing anything about methods, and that petered out. It turns out that I have been meditating informally without realizing that there are meditation methods like that. I honestly have no idea how much work I have put in. There seem to have been "relapses" into it now and then throughout my life, starting when I was a little kid. Having a systematic daily practice now after all that seems to boost a development that was always waiting to happen. I feel stupid for not starting earlier, but maybe that wouldn't have worked at all. And I probably couldn't have started earlier, since I didn't. 
shargrol, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:02 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:02 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1743 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
SCHISM!!!!!! SChismmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

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Nikolai , modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:43 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:09 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
shargrol:
SCHISM!!!!!! SChismmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

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Does this sound about right?

First big schism was the actual freedom debacle which frightened off a bunch of original dharma underground folk from the DhO. 1st inklings were with Tarin talking about it in those classic "Get it done" audios taken at Daniel's Ranch. Then Tarin goes and presumably gets it done along with another DhO member, ruffling the originals' feathers (minus Daniel). They then go off elsewhere. It gets worse  as Tarin and Co frighten everyone with their huge "shift" in the tone of their communications presumably giving off an emotionless robotic air....though this was argued to be people's own rose-tinted glasses making them react to those same communications. .....and thus Kenneth moves away and KFD is formed for the first lot of DhO refugees. . I think I missed this first main schism as I was busy working on  getting to 1st path, 2009 was it? I think I got the instructions I needed  from MTCB and the early 2008/2009 Dho just before this first major schism. I stopped reading the site and just practiced. Glad I did as I'm sure I would have been swayed by all the fuss.

Then I get to 1st path, joined KFD in early 2010. as well as still being at the DhO, but both had very different flavours back then. KFD had a lot of hand-holding and moderation, DhO was truly a free-or-all. Then some developments within the year of 2010, Kenneth gets into "direct mode" in September I think of 2010,  loosely linked to actual freedom instructions, during or after Daniel's actual freedome experiments spawned by Tarin's presumed success (he was later cut loose from the Actual Freedom Trust site due to disclaiming actual freedom-another story. It truly is like Days of Our Lives).

This last radical shift in Kenneth's focus forced those in disagreement's hand as there was a major reaction to the tempering of what was perceived as "emotions/affect" . Thus they created their Dharma Refugee forum. I was on board at the time with Kenneth's 20 path system (hehe) so i remained with KFD. 

However, shortly after, I also had my own mini-personal schism with Kenneth because there was a backflipping on "direct mode" and a be  all bodhisatva phase and I was still into what I was doing, so I had to remain at my own refugee island on The Hamilton Project blog.  It was probably only coming from where we both found ourselves perceptually, dealing with fresh baselines and no idea how to properly act from them. Pure hubris. With the passing of time and falling down a slow rolling descent down the  rabbit hole (and having kids), it has all mellowed and I have no idea where that "energy" came from. So long ago now. If Kenneth reads this, sorry for being an arsehole. I was missing that "chip" that told me I was being one in the heat of that fresh basline shift "honeymoon" period. 

Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

2 cents

Nick
Edited a few times for typos and extra info and sentence flow
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:31 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:31 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Thankyou for the resumé, Nikolai! Now I don't have to browse through the first decade of Days of our lives. 

That's actually not any schism I would happen to blindly walk into. I'd like to keep my feelings, please. However, it does explain why people here are so prone to misinterpret stuff as wanting to get rid of feelings. I think some people made karma during that schism. 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 4:13 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 4:10 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
shargrol:
SCHISM!!!!!! SChismmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

emoticon
Does this sound about right?

First big schism was the actual freedom debacle which frightened off a bunch of original dharma underground folk from the DhO. 1st inklings were with Tarin talking about it in those classic "Get it done" audios taken at Daniel's Ranch. Then Tarin goes and presumably gets it done along with another DhO member, ruffling the originals' feathers (minus Daniel). They then go off elsewhere. It gets worse  as Tarin and Co frighten everyone with their huge "shift" in the tone of their communications presumably giving off an emotionless robotic air....though this was argued to be people's own rose-tinted glasses making them react to those same communications. .....and thus Kenneth moves away and KFD is formed for the first lot of DhO refugees. . I think I missed this first main schism as I was busy working on  getting to 1st path, 2009 was it? I think I got the instructions I needed  from MTCB and the early 2008/2009 Dho just before this first major schism. I stopped reading the site and just practiced. Glad I did as I'm sure I would have been swayed by all the fuss.

Then I get to 1st path, joined KFD in early 2010. as well as still being at the DhO, but both had very different flavours back then. KFD had a lot of hand-holding and moderation, DhO was truly a free-or-all. Then some developments within the year of 2010, Kenneth gets into "direct mode" in September I think of 2010,  loosely linked to actual freedom instructions, during or after Daniel's actual freedome experiments spawned by Tarin's presumed success (he was later cut loose from the Actual Freedom Trust site due to disclaiming actual freedom-another story. It truly is like Days of Our Lives).

This last radical shift in Kenneth's focus forced those in disagreement's hand as there was a major reaction to the tempering of what was perceived as "emotions/affect" . Thus they created their Dharma Refugee forum. I was on board at the time with Kenneth's 20 path system (hehe) so i remained with KFD. 

However, shortly after, I also had my own mini-personal schism with Kenneth because there was a backflipping on "direct mode" and a be  all bodhisatva phase and I was still into what I was doing, so I had to remain at my own refugee island on The Hamilton Project blog.  It was probably only coming from where we both found ourselves perceptually, dealing with fresh baselines and no idea how to properly act from them. Pure hubris. With the passing of time and falling down a slow rolling descent down the  rabbit hole (and having kids), it has all mellowed and I have no idea where that "energy" came from. So long ago now. If Kenneth reads this, sorry for being an arsehole. I was missing that "chip" that told me I was being one in the heat of that fresh basline shift "honeymoon" period. 

Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

2 cents

Nick
Edited a few times for typos and extra info and sentence flow
Thank Nikolai, you hero of historical source material, you blessing on dharma scholars of the future as they sort out our wreckage into sects and schismatic cadres. This is what I was begging  Chris and Shagrol for, but they are both too nice these days, apparently, to feed a dirt-craving lowlife like me. Whereas you, who appear to have achieved a high degree of Niceness as well, without clinging to the state, of course, have given this lowlife dirt-eater a feast here. Thank you, honestly. As a cradle member of a schismatic Jewish sect, i know the horrors of fratricide all too well, over 2000 years of it that make these more recent fractal iterations look like a playground. Plus, your heartfelt words to Kenneth F. were themselves worth the price of admission here (well, it was free, but you know what i mean). I hear all you old school(s) guy saying the same thing here, with humor and with love.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 4:22 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 4:21 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2399 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
shargrol:
SCHISM!!!!!! SChismmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

emoticon
Does this sound about right?

First big schism was the actual freedom debacle which frightened off a bunch of original dharma underground folk from the DhO. 1st inklings were with Tarin talking about it in those classic "Get it done" audios taken at Daniel's Ranch. Then Tarin goes and presumably gets it done along with another DhO member, ruffling the originals' feathers (minus Daniel). They then go off elsewhere. It gets worse  as Tarin and Co frighten everyone with their huge "shift" in the tone of their communications presumably giving off an emotionless robotic air....though this was argued to be people's own rose-tinted glasses making them react to those same communications. .....and thus Kenneth moves away and KFD is formed for the first lot of DhO refugees. . I think I missed this first main schism as I was busy working on  getting to 1st path, 2009 was it? I think I got the instructions I needed  from MTCB and the early 2008/2009 Dho just before this first major schism. I stopped reading the site and just practiced. Glad I did as I'm sure I would have been swayed by all the fuss.

Then I get to 1st path, joined KFD in early 2010. as well as still being at the DhO, but both had very different flavours back then. KFD had a lot of hand-holding and moderation, DhO was truly a free-or-all. Then some developments within the year of 2010, Kenneth gets into "direct mode" in September I think of 2010,  loosely linked to actual freedom instructions, during or after Daniel's actual freedome experiments spawned by Tarin's presumed success (he was later cut loose from the Actual Freedom Trust site due to disclaiming actual freedom-another story. It truly is like Days of Our Lives).

This last radical shift in Kenneth's focus forced those in disagreement's hand as there was a major reaction to the tempering of what was perceived as "emotions/affect" . Thus they created their Dharma Refugee forum. I was on board at the time with Kenneth's 20 path system (hehe) so i remained with KFD. 

However, shortly after, I also had my own mini-personal schism with Kenneth because there was a backflipping on "direct mode" and a be  all bodhisatva phase and I was still into what I was doing, so I had to remain at my own refugee island on The Hamilton Project blog.  It was probably only coming from where we both found ourselves perceptually, dealing with fresh baselines and no idea how to properly act from them. Pure hubris. With the passing of time and falling down a slow rolling descent down the  rabbit hole (and having kids), it has all mellowed and I have no idea where that "energy" came from. So long ago now. If Kenneth reads this, sorry for being an arsehole. I was missing that "chip" that told me I was being one in the heat of that fresh basline shift "honeymoon" period. 

Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

2 cents

Nick
Edited a few times for typos and extra info and sentence flow


You missed only a tiny detail likey of no importance whatsoever emoticon Thanks to me joining The Hamilton Project back in ... 2011 I think you decided to create FORUM RULES emoticon (sorry for my bleedthroughs and for provoking you over at the Vipassanaforum.net which was earlier durng my arrogant A&P faze).

Ah that Dhamma Drama emoticon 

p.s. hope you and your family are doing well!
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Nikolai , modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:26 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:22 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Hi Dusko, 

Haha, I do remember that short lived period. You had a bit of a rollercoaster ride on that Vipassna forum too if I recall. 

The HP Forum was also quite short lived. Funny how things played out. For the life of me now, i can't bring myself to participate in any divisiveness these days. That urge just doesnt seem to want to arise any more. Plus, my goal-orientatedness has shifted from "get somehwere" to "I have to clean, dress and feed my 3 years old." 

My family are alive and so far virus free.
Hoping yours are as well. Cute baby!


You missed only a tiny detail likey of no importance whatsoever emoticon Thanks to me joining The Hamilton Project back in ... 2011 I think you decided to create FORUM RULES emoticon (sorry for my bleedthroughs and for provoking you over at the Vipassanaforum.net which was earlier durng my arrogant A&P faze).

Ah that Dhamma Drama emoticon 

p.s. hope you and your family are doing well!



shargrol, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:28 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:25 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1743 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:


Does this sound about right?

First big schism was the actual freedom debacle which frightened off a bunch of original dharma underground folk from the DhO. 1st inklings were with Tarin talking about it in those classic "Get it done" audios taken at Daniel's Ranch. Then Tarin goes and presumably gets it done along with another DhO member, ruffling the originals' feathers (minus Daniel). They then go off elsewhere. It gets worse  as Tarin and Co frighten everyone with their huge "shift" in the tone of their communications presumably giving off an emotionless robotic air....though this was argued to be people's own rose-tinted glasses making them react to those same communications. .....and thus Kenneth moves away and KFD is formed for the first lot of DhO refugees. . I think I missed this first main schism as I was busy working on  getting to 1st path, 2009 was it? I think I got the instructions I needed  from MTCB and the early 2008/2009 Dho just before this first major schism. I stopped reading the site and just practiced. Glad I did as I'm sure I would have been swayed by all the fuss.

Then I get to 1st path, joined KFD in early 2010. as well as still being at the DhO, but both had very different flavours back then. KFD had a lot of hand-holding and moderation, DhO was truly a free-or-all. Then some developments within the year of 2010, Kenneth gets into "direct mode" in September I think of 2010,  loosely linked to actual freedom instructions, during or after Daniel's actual freedome experiments spawned by Tarin's presumed success (he was later cut loose from the Actual Freedom Trust site due to disclaiming actual freedom-another story. It truly is like Days of Our Lives).

This last radical shift in Kenneth's focus forced those in disagreement's hand as there was a major reaction to the tempering of what was perceived as "emotions/affect" . Thus they created their Dharma Refugee forum. I was on board at the time with Kenneth's 20 path system (hehe) so i remained with KFD. 

However, shortly after, I also had my own mini-personal schism with Kenneth because there was a backflipping on "direct mode" and a be  all bodhisatva phase and I was still into what I was doing, so I had to remain at my own refugee island on The Hamilton Project blog.  It was probably only coming from where we both found ourselves perceptually, dealing with fresh baselines and no idea how to properly act from them. Pure hubris. With the passing of time and falling down a slow rolling descent down the  rabbit hole (and having kids), it has all mellowed and I have no idea where that "energy" came from. So long ago now. If Kenneth reads this, sorry for being an arsehole. I was missing that "chip" that told me I was being one in the heat of that fresh basline shift "honeymoon" period. 

Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

2 cents

Nick
Edited a few times for typos and extra info and sentence flow
Great summary!The only other aspects I can recall:

Relentless "recruiting" of DhO dark night yogi's by the AF crowd.  Desparate people with serious meditation/mental health problems being told that AF was going to be their solution/salvation... That was hard to watch.

Bless Kenneth's heart he was the voice of reason during this time and this was why KFD was so important in many of our lives. He championed boring old Mahasi-style meditation and "consistent, not heroic, practice". Truly a lifesaver that rose to the moment..

There was also a phase, I think during KFD and pre-DFRC, when Kenneth was going in the "I have no thoughts ala Gary Weber" direction. But I think that might have been what you were refering to as the "emotions/affect" phase.

But that's it. Really good summary.

What a wild ride (yet tame by other standards). And I think all of the participants have hung out together in various venues in recent years. It really does seem to have been mended over. Not necessarily agreement on everything, but an acceptance that everyone has their own flavor of dharma. No dharma clones in practical dharma ----  and really there are no dharma clones anywhere -- if you look at the key players in different monestaries/sanghas all the teachers are different from their teachers. That's just how this stuff works.

There is an idea that I think about a lot.... I''m pretty sure it's in Trungpa's Spiritual Materialism... And it talks about how when you first meet a teacher it's like hunting, you're looking everywhere to find something so elusive. Where is the True Teacher? Then you think you've found the teacher and it is like seduction, you try to get them "on your side", you flatter them, you try to become the best student ever. Then you are working with the teacher and it is like a hot fire on a cold day, you can't stand too close or you'll get burned and you can't leave because then you feel like you'll die in the cold. This is when the teacher is leading you to your own shadow side and you are seeing all of your reactive patterns, resistances, paranoias, and blind spots. It sucks, and you want to leave, but it's also where the real work occurs. The guru doesn't need to "keep you there", it's really the deeper part of you that know that practice is ultimately making life better.  Then the guru/teacher starts becoming more of a human and you finally get that the teacher is a human and a student of life just like you. They have some insights but they aren't perfect.... And then as you gain your own understanding, the teacher is like a rock on the side of the road. You don't even turn your head to look. It's just a rock on the side of the road. So what? It's very interesting to see how a version of this played out here in the West in the early 2000s.

May we all learn from other's mistakes, make our own mistakes, and share our experiences so that other's can learn from our mistakes. No one is perfect. The life of a zen master is one mistake after another.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:57 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:57 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
shargrol:
Nikolai .:


Does this sound about right?

First big schism was the actual freedom debacle which frightened off a bunch of original dharma underground folk from the DhO. 1st inklings were with Tarin talking about it in those classic "Get it done" audios taken at Daniel's Ranch. Then Tarin goes and presumably gets it done along with another DhO member, ruffling the originals' feathers (minus Daniel). They then go off elsewhere. It gets worse  as Tarin and Co frighten everyone with their huge "shift" in the tone of their communications presumably giving off an emotionless robotic air....though this was argued to be people's own rose-tinted glasses making them react to those same communications. .....and thus Kenneth moves away and KFD is formed for the first lot of DhO refugees. . I think I missed this first main schism as I was busy working on  getting to 1st path, 2009 was it? I think I got the instructions I needed  from MTCB and the early 2008/2009 Dho just before this first major schism. I stopped reading the site and just practiced. Glad I did as I'm sure I would have been swayed by all the fuss.

Then I get to 1st path, joined KFD in early 2010. as well as still being at the DhO, but both had very different flavours back then. KFD had a lot of hand-holding and moderation, DhO was truly a free-or-all. Then some developments within the year of 2010, Kenneth gets into "direct mode" in September I think of 2010,  loosely linked to actual freedom instructions, during or after Daniel's actual freedome experiments spawned by Tarin's presumed success (he was later cut loose from the Actual Freedom Trust site due to disclaiming actual freedom-another story. It truly is like Days of Our Lives).

This last radical shift in Kenneth's focus forced those in disagreement's hand as there was a major reaction to the tempering of what was perceived as "emotions/affect" . Thus they created their Dharma Refugee forum. I was on board at the time with Kenneth's 20 path system (hehe) so i remained with KFD. 

However, shortly after, I also had my own mini-personal schism with Kenneth because there was a backflipping on "direct mode" and a be  all bodhisatva phase and I was still into what I was doing, so I had to remain at my own refugee island on The Hamilton Project blog.  It was probably only coming from where we both found ourselves perceptually, dealing with fresh baselines and no idea how to properly act from them. Pure hubris. With the passing of time and falling down a slow rolling descent down the  rabbit hole (and having kids), it has all mellowed and I have no idea where that "energy" came from. So long ago now. If Kenneth reads this, sorry for being an arsehole. I was missing that "chip" that told me I was being one in the heat of that fresh basline shift "honeymoon" period. 

Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

2 cents

Nick
Edited a few times for typos and extra info and sentence flow
Great summary!The only other aspects I can recall:

Relentless "recruiting" of DhO dark night yogi's by the AF crowd.  Desparate people with serious meditation/mental health problems being told that AF was going to be their solution/salvation... That was hard to watch.

Bless Kenneth's heart he was the voice of reason during this time and this was why KFD was so important in many of our lives. He championed boring old Mahasi-style meditation and "consistent, not heroic, practice". Truly a lifesaver that rose to the moment..

There was also a phase, I think during KFD and pre-DFRC, when Kenneth was going in the "I have no thoughts ala Gary Weber" direction. But I think that might have been what you were refering to as the "emotions/affect" phase.

But that's it. Really good summary.

What a wild ride (yet tame by other standards). And I think all of the participants have hung out together in various venues in recent years. It really does seem to have been mended over. Not necessarily agreement on everything, but an acceptance that everyone has their own flavor of dharma. No dharma clones in practical dharma ----  and really there are no dharma clones anywhere -- if you look at the key players in different monestaries/sanghas all the teachers are different from their teachers. That's just how this stuff works.

There is an idea that I think about a lot.... I''m pretty sure it's in Trungpa's Spiritual Materialism... And it talks about how when you first meet a teacher it's like hunting, you're looking everywhere to find something so elusive. Where is the True Teacher? Then you think you've found the teacher and it is like seduction, you try to get them "on your side", you flatter them, you try to become the best student ever. Then you are working with the teacher and it is like a hot fire on a cold day, you can't stand too close or you'll get burned and you can't leave because then you feel like you'll die in the cold. This is when the teacher is leading you to your own shadow side and you are seeing all of your reactive patterns, resistances, paranoias, and blind spots. It sucks, and you want to leave, but it's also where the real work occurs. The guru doesn't need to "keep you there", it's really the deeper part of you that know that practice is ultimately making life better.  Then the guru/teacher starts becoming more of a human and you finally get that the teacher is a human and a student of life just like you. They have some insights but they aren't perfect.... And then as you gain your own understanding, the teacher is like a rock on the side of the road. You don't even turn your head to look. It's just a rock on the side of the road. So what? It's very interesting to see how a version of this played out here in the West in the early 2000s.

May we all learn from other's mistakes, make our own mistakes, and share our experiences so that other's can learn from our mistakes. No one is perfect. The life of a zen master is one mistake after another.

Fuck you, Chris Marti, if all these carried-over boxes within boxes trouble your lazy ass. This thing is pure gold and should have a place in the scriptures that eventually get written by some future schismatic sect on the ashes of our failures and fuckups. This is just fucking beautiful, and its own kind of education. Thank God Pepe is immortalizing shargrol already. You guys in that crew can all take a fucking number, i think Pepe's working on Daniel now. Kenneth Folke may need a Pepe. I just love this stuff. I wish that schismatic genius Jew St. Paul could read it, in his rush to bring the Greeks to the Torah of Jesus. (and soeaking of Paul, remember, since i started out harsh here, not i, but Chris in me.)
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:42 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:42 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Fuck you, Chris Marti, if all these carried-over boxes within boxes trouble your lazy ass.

This place is finally starting to feel like home.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:52 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:52 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2399 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Fuck you, Chris Marti, if all these carried-over boxes within boxes trouble your lazy ass.

This place is finally starting to feel like home.

emoticon 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:04 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:04 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
There was also a phase, I think during KFD and pre-DFRC, when Kenneth was going in the "I have no thoughts ala Gary Weber" direction. But I think that might have been what you were refering to as the "emotions/affect" phase.

I have to correct you on this one, shargrol. Kenneth was never one to claim no thoughts - he just tried to get to a "no emotions" state for about two years. Kenneth Folk and Gary Weber went at each other with swords and mace. Kenneth challenged Gary Weber's "I have no thoughts" mantra. Gary got defensive and shot back, and several rounds of back and forth ensued.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:11 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:11 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
There was also a phase, I think during KFD and pre-DFRC, when Kenneth was going in the "I have no thoughts ala Gary Weber" direction. But I think that might have been what you were refering to as the "emotions/affect" phase.

I have to correct you on this one, shargrol. Kenneth was never one to claim no thoughts - he just tried to get to a "no emotions" state for about two years. Kenneth Folk and Gary Weber went at each other with swords and mace. Kenneth challenged Gary Weber's "I have no thoughts" mantra. Gary got defensive and shot back, and several rounds of back and forth ensued.
I'm telling you, guys, this is how it really works. You are making the evangelist St. Nikolai's (if he's stupid enough to take on the historian gig) work easier for him with every nuance here. He can just type up this thread, a la pepe, with the occasional judicious edit or cut-and-paste, if you guys are scrupulous in this kind of time-wasting penny ante detail fractal-doodoo crap.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:31 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:31 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
There is a fast way to the no emotions stage, I have heard: lobotomy. It probably takes away some sense of agency as well.

Why on earth would anyone want that? What kinds of emotions did all those people have to deal with in order for that to be appealing? It must have been horrible. Poor bastards! I have been depressed to the extent of experiencing no feelings at all. That was no life.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:33 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:33 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Take that post back! Hurry! Jesus Christ Almighty - are you trying to start another schism???
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:40 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:40 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
If I ever go all demi-god and embrace my hubris instead of trying to let it self-liberate as discretely as possible, I will come up with something better than going to the history as the lobotomy guru. Somebody else would have to take on that one. 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:44 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:44 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Alright, you've obviously ignored my exhortations to stop this nonsense before we have another shit show on our hands. It won't be long before you run off in a huff and start your own dharma message board.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:49 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:47 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I had my own message board before I even got here. I'll just have to spread my dharma there and kick out everyone that still approaches it as a haven for autistic people. Moahahahaha! emoticon

By the way, we have much better smileys there. Maybe something for Papa Che and Tim? Can I tempt you?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:49 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:49 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 4339 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
See?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:51 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 8:51 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I don't know. I would have to ask the other half of my brain.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:03 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:03 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
I am joining Linda's schismatic sect. Please schedule my lobotomy as soon as possible. Part of the reason is those pushups that fucking megalomaniac Marti had me doing, part because, well, let's face it, Linda is a demi-goddess.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:04 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:04 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Oh yeah, and better smileys. The smileys here suck, she's right. Papa Che, you with me? And could you go first on the lobotomy thing, maybe?
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:06 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:06 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I don't know. I would have to ask the other half of my brain.


My demi-goddess is not only a master of pure logic, she is fucking hilarious. Hasta la vista, losers.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:37 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:37 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
It is Goddess to you, human. Demi... Pfffffsssshhhhhh! 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:49 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 9:44 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
It is Goddess to you, human. Demi... Pfffffsssshhhhhh! 

I beg forgiveness at your lotus feet, Goddess beyond all description, Ma Lobotomy-ji.

(.tnemeerga deniarb-flah ,detraeh-elohw ni sdon niarb ym fo edis dnah-thgir eht) 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:18 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:18 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
There is a fast way to the no emotions stage, I have heard: lobotomy. It probably takes away some sense of agency as well.

Why on earth would anyone want that? What kinds of emotions did all those people have to deal with in order for that to be appealing? It must have been horrible. Poor bastards! I have been depressed to the extent of experiencing no feelings at all. That was no life.

Still wondering about this, why so many people, some of them fairly realized, felt (!) that emotions were such a problem that they would rather get rid of them than learn to deal with them skillfully. I mean, emotions are key to human experience AND they are "just" emotions. There's nothing dangerous about them per se. 
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Steph S, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 3:29 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 3:09 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
There is a fast way to the no emotions stage, I have heard: lobotomy. It probably takes away some sense of agency as well.

Why on earth would anyone want that? What kinds of emotions did all those people have to deal with in order for that to be appealing? It must have been horrible. Poor bastards! I have been depressed to the extent of experiencing no feelings at all. That was no life.

Still wondering about this, why so many people, some of them fairly realized, felt (!) that emotions were such a problem that they would rather get rid of them than learn to deal with them skillfully. I mean, emotions are key to human experience AND they are "just" emotions. There's nothing dangerous about them per se. 

What. a. Thread. Chris's practice blogs about the seeking for what little bit you're missing, that someone copied in above is solid gold, first of all. I could write volumes about, "What the fuck else do I have to see through? I've seen it all! What's left?!?!"

More tidbits ON THE SCHISM. I only can speak to the DhO side of it. I was never on KFD. I joined DhO back in 2010 and it's the only board I've been on. For no real reason. It just is. I was around when the Actual Freedom stuff was in full swing and lots and lots of folks jumped on the bandwagon. I was one of them. Some of us may have been perpetual Dark Nighters. Others, like me, were curious to see what it was about and open to experimentation.

I also think there was not an insignificant number who were in the no man's land of the middle paths, starting to see glimpses of "emptiness" and saw Actualism as some extension of that. Especially 3rd pathers when things become more obviously unbound in daily life. There was some Dzogchen influence starting to pop up on the board around that time too, so I think they felt like the whole "luminosity/emptiness" stuff from Dzogchen could align with it. Very easy to slip into what was called the Pure Consciousness Experience from there, which is the supposedly affectless state when everything glimmers and is utterly lucid and immediate without a center point - this is what maybe seemed aligned with the luminosity stuff. People who thought they were already post 4th path were talking alot about how there was more to be realized after finishing 4th. They figured Actualism was the way to that more. Whether these folks were actually post-4th path or lost somewhere in 3rd path was a mystery at the time (and still maybe is). 

I ditched Actualism after a while after being bothered by abovementioned robotness of some of the folks who claimed they got AF. I also think Richard, the dude who started the AF Trust seems like a total fucking cult leader. He is incredibly rigid in his thinking in an all or nothing way, which I'm not a fan of. I also wondered if there was possibly some creeper shit going on with the women who were over there with him. There was definite guru worship happening on the part of his "followers". One or more of them were actually people who left cults in the past, so it doesn't seem too far off they'd get sucked into that world again if they hadn't resolved their trauma from it, or all sorts of other reasons.

Anyways, I think over time alot of people saw the writing on the wall and stopped practicing in the actualism way. I left DhO somewhere around 2015, but was already back to practicing insight & jhana by then. I recently joined up again and it's great to be back y'all. emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 3:38 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 3:35 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Thanks for shedding some light on the mystery! I'm glad you weren't caught up in it. I can understand wanting to experiment. That doesn't seem to go very well with rigidness, though.

I am in the middle paths and have those glimpses you mentioned. However, for me that has nothing to do with ditching emotions. I don't feel the need to stabilize anything either. I'm enjoying the transformative dance or lovemaking between emptiness and existence.

I don't understand why I still haven't gotten around to reading Chris's journal. Everybody says it's gold and it has been on my reading list for a long time. I tend to prefer reading about where people are in their practice in the present, I guess. 

I'm glad you came back and that there is a lot of activity here nowadays. The forum needs more variety than my spamming. 
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:45 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:45 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:

I don't understand why I still haven't gotten around to reading Chris's journal. Everybody says it's gold and it has been on my reading list for a long time. I tend to prefer reading about where people are in their practice in the present, I guess. 
It's great in the same way most of Chris's comments are -- short and to the point.  
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 5:23 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 5:23 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Steph S:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
There is a fast way to the no emotions stage, I have heard: lobotomy. It probably takes away some sense of agency as well.

Why on earth would anyone want that? What kinds of emotions did all those people have to deal with in order for that to be appealing? It must have been horrible. Poor bastards! I have been depressed to the extent of experiencing no feelings at all. That was no life.

Still wondering about this, why so many people, some of them fairly realized, felt (!) that emotions were such a problem that they would rather get rid of them than learn to deal with them skillfully. I mean, emotions are key to human experience AND they are "just" emotions. There's nothing dangerous about them per se. 

What. a. Thread. Chris's practice blogs about the seeking for what little bit you're missing, that someone copied in above is solid gold, first of all. I could write volumes about, "What the fuck else do I have to see through? I've seen it all! What's left?!?!"

More tidbits ON THE SCHISM. I only can speak to the DhO side of it. I was never on KFD. I joined DhO back in 2010 and it's the only board I've been on. For no real reason. It just is. I was around when the Actual Freedom stuff was in full swing and lots and lots of folks jumped on the bandwagon. I was one of them. Some of us may have been perpetual Dark Nighters. Others, like me, were curious to see what it was about and open to experimentation.

I also think there was not an insignificant number who were in the no man's land of the middle paths, starting to see glimpses of "emptiness" and saw Actualism as some extension of that. Especially 3rd pathers when things become more obviously unbound in daily life. There was some Dzogchen influence starting to pop up on the board around that time too, so I think they felt like the whole "luminosity/emptiness" stuff from Dzogchen could align with it. Very easy to slip into what was called the Pure Consciousness Experience from there, which is the supposedly affectless state when everything glimmers and is utterly lucid and immediate without a center point - this is what maybe seemed aligned with the luminosity stuff. People who thought they were already post 4th path were talking alot about how there was more to be realized after finishing 4th. They figured Actualism was the way to that more. Whether these folks were actually post-4th path or lost somewhere in 3rd path was a mystery at the time (and still maybe is). 

I ditched Actualism after a while after being bothered by abovementioned robotness of some of the folks who claimed they got AF. I also think Richard, the dude who started the AF Trust seems like a total fucking cult leader. He is incredibly rigid in his thinking in an all or nothing way, which I'm not a fan of. I also wondered if there was possibly some creeper shit going on with the women who were over there with him. There was definite guru worship happening on the part of his "followers". One or more of them were actually people who left cults in the past, so it doesn't seem too far off they'd get sucked into that world again if they hadn't resolved their trauma from it, or all sorts of other reasons.

Anyways, I think over time alot of people saw the writing on the wall and stopped practicing in the actualism way. I left DhO somewhere around 2015, but was already back to practicing insight & jhana by then. I recently joined up again and it's great to be back y'all. emoticon

Steph, thank you for making this great thread greater with your own historical contribution. It's a sort of unfolding miracle, really, the thread turning into a magic story well, a fountain of grace and beauty, perspective, healing, forgiveness, and awesome actual nitty-gritty fascinating historical twists and turns of the sort that i am deeply into knowing, as a survivor of a few twists and turns myself. I do love the occasional lifted rug, to see what really got swept under there, and when, and why, and also to see how the sweepers are doing this far down the line. The sweepers here all seem like a bunch of softies, frankly. They've all got the heart disease, in the sense of actually having a heart, which appears to have been treated at certain points by certain schismatic splinters in the general crashing of the carpentry as fatal. (hint: it is. They all seem to have accepted that, as far as I can tell. The Buddha died too, that beautiful heart stopped beating. We are still trying to make sense of that all.)
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 9:02 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 9:02 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I do love the occasional lifted rug, to see what really got swept under there, and when, and why, and also to see how the sweepers are doing this far down the line. The sweepers here all seem like a bunch of softies, frankly. They've all got the heart disease, in the sense of actually having a heart, which appears to have been treated at certain points by certain schismatic splinters in the general crashing of the carpentry as fatal. (hint: it is. They all seem to have accepted that, as far as I can tell. The Buddha died too, that beautiful heart stopped beating. We are still trying to make sense of that all.)

This is such a beautiful and poetic way to describe a soap opera! Thank you, Tim.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 11:38 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 11:38 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 3:28 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 3:27 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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" As I was watching the world unfold the thought came: “Who is seeing this?” And then the universe revealed its luminosity as me and any thought of doing or being melted away. I got up after some indeterminate time with tears on my face. Again."

This seems soooo Post SE stuff or?  emoticon  I did try to read it but it turns out I have better things to do for now; PRACTICE! But I do hope Chris will be kind enough to throw me a bone of wisdom once in a while, depending on where I am on the Path emoticonemoticonemoticon 

I do wonder though how people read into stuff?
Lets say back in 2011 when I discovered MTCB1 I've read it all the way from start to DN. I did try and read more but soon realised I had no idea what he was talking about.

This is how I kept reading MTCB, only to the point where I was and applying useful suggestions from it. Would pick the book up ONLY when I felt some significant change to see if it was mentioned or not. 

I've found that once you knew about Maps one can easily just forget about them and return to the Map only during some unusual, new experiences and tease a tip or two out of it.

To me Maps were so helpful about telling me that my meditaion being shred to bits was very NORMAL emoticon "relax its all good, take a breather". If I didnt know about the maps god knows what would happen to my life, my practice etc ...




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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 3:42 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 3:42 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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And just to add;

Out of all the reading and describtion of stages and paths I ALWAYS seem to pick up only a word or a phraze/concept that could be of benefit. Im kind of a Post-It meditator;

(meditaton based on knowing but not obsessing about the Insight Maps)

1. Freestyle Note Aloud (K. Folk)
2. Acceptance (Ingram)
3. 1-10 notes per second (Ingram)
4. Note the Urges (shargrol gave me this one over at AN forum)
5. Stop using smileys!!! (Chris Marti)

This is Papa's ENTIRE practice.
Its kind of a "Keep It Simpe Stupid" emoticon I like it!
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 4:02 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 4:02 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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 Papa Che, you simple-ass prodigy of practice, what are you doing blabbing here at this hour about such things? Are you in Ireland or something? You've already sat your simple ass down for as long as you can stand? Get to work, Papa-ji! emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 4:04 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/12/20 4:04 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Papa Che Dusko:


(meditaton based on knowing but not obsessing about the Insight Maps)


5. Stop using smileys!!! (Chris Marti)


Fuck you, Chris Marti, you fucking vipassana puritan. emoticon
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 8:56 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 8:56 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I ditched Actualism after a while after being bothered by abovementioned robotness of some of the folks who claimed they got AF. I also think Richard, the dude who started the AF Trust seems like a total fucking cult leader. He is incredibly rigid in his thinking in an all or nothing way, which I'm not a fan of. I also wondered if there was possibly some creeper shit going on with the women who were over there with him. There was definite guru worship happening on the part of his "followers". One or more of them were actually people who left cults in the past, so it doesn't seem too far off they'd get sucked into that world again if they hadn't resolved their trauma from it, or all sorts of other reasons.

That's well put, Steph. Glad I didn't have to say it emoticon
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Griffin, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 11:55 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 11:55 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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What happened with Richard and his cult in the end? Are they still active?
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:40 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:40 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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There's still a web page. Apparently part of the practice is reading text that is in the smallest font possible.


http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/
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Steph S, modified 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:27 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 10:27 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Brandon Dayton:
There's still a web page. Apparently part of the practice is reading text that is in the smallest font possible.


http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/
How does one become Actually Free of truly hideous design? I'm not a UX/UI designer or a coder, but I have some ideas. 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 8:47 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 8:44 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Still wondering about this, why so many people, some of them fairly realized, felt (!) that emotions were such a problem that they would rather get rid of them than learn to deal with them skillfully. I mean, emotions are key to human experience AND they are "just" emotions. There's nothing dangerous about them per se. 

Steph's comments aside, and folks like Steph aside (people who were suffering and investigated Actual Freedom as a potential way out of their suffering), I believe the primary motivation for achieving a zombie-like state here on DhO, back in about 2009, was testosterone. It was a few young men who thought that getting really, really, really waked up was the road to being better than. Waked up meant feeling nothing. Nothing. Actual Freedom just gave them a theology to back it up. "There's this dude, you know, on a boat in a swamp in Australia, and he was, you know, fully enlightened like the Buddha never even dreamed of."

Some folks like that would show up on KFD, too. Among them there was what I'd call an MO.

'Nuff said. Probably more than 'nuff.

I forgive them!

They all, as far as I know, came back and joined the rest of us human beings.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:25 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:24 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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This schism thread-jack is really hitting home what the media misses when it tells stories about meditation (including books like Why Buddhism is True IMHO).

The general tone of most reporting is: science is revealing that something is actually happening in the brains of meditators, and look at the brains of these superhuman meditators when you put them in MRI's. Wowee! Perhaps enlightenment is real...

I would like to see more reporting that shows what is reported in this thread (and what is clear the closer that you look) that awakening is very, very real, and that advanced practicioners are very, very human.

Having grown up LDS Mormon it very much reminds me of reading Rough Stone Rolling, seeing the founders of Mormonism reported as being very human and that revelation being totally exhilarating.

I have this theory that religion is an innate part of humans, just like language or morality and we tilt towards that whether we are aware of it or not. There is this tilt in mainstream culture (likely unintentional) to take the form of religion and I feel like much of what I read about meditation in "reputable" news sources feels like it wants to find saints, mythology and salvation in the story. The only difference is that science now takes the place of God in anointing the chosen ones.

So yeah, I like the history too. I like the gossip, the drama and knowing that humans are behind the process of the dharma just as much as kharma.

BTW, maybe we should retitle this thread:

HISTORY OF THE GREAT SCHISM(s) and Chris Marti's Logs
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:35 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:35 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Having grown up LDS Mormon it very much reminds me of reading Rough Stone Rolling, seeing the founders of Mormonism reported as being very human and that revelation being totally exhilarating.

Ha! I was born in Park City, UT. Father LDS, mother Episcopal. I don't think Joseph Smith wanted you to know he was human. Brigham Young? Maybe.

emoticon
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:48 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 12:48 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Wow. Small world. It's funny how often I run into others with a Mormon connection in the dharma world.

Reading about the A&P in MCTB made me understand the First Vision in a way I never had before. For all the good that can be said of the various meditative attainments I think the A&P has probably played the biggest role in shaping the history of world religion.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:02 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 1:02 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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That is probably very true. 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:25 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:25 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

No, Nick - that's just marvelous work you did there! I think we should just appoint you " The DhO/KFD/DFRC/AN Historian" and be done with it.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:34 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:34 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
Did I miss anything? Where there any other mini-schisms? 

No, Nick - that's just marvelous work you did there! I think we should just appoint you " The DhO/KFD/DFRC/AN Historian" and be done with it.

That's what I want, for some poor bastard, the one with something close to the shittiest karma, to take on the "DhO/KFD/DFRC/AN Historian" job. That's how scriptures get written, somebody tells the story, which pisses off somebody else, who tells the story with his own spin, and so on. The canon here is in the best place a canon can be, MCBT first edition as an old testament, MCBT2 as a new one. The first historian, in this metaphor, is the equivalent of Mark, the first evangelist. The good news is that the first one can be relatively straightforward--- Mark is notoriously terse. So whoever it is--- I vote for Nikolai as well--- grab the job now before somebdy else gets in and complicates even the Synoptic Gospels of Pragmatic Dharma. And don't even get me started on the metaphorical equivalent of the Gospel of John, or Paul's epistles. I don't want to live to see such things again, but I'm committted to closing down the bar in hell, so at least i'll have something to read, to keep me pissed off enough to keep the flame at a working temperature.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:34 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 7:34 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Coda --

I made my peace with Kenneth Folk a long time ago. I actually flew to Sacramento and drove up to Lake Tahoe where he was "hosting" a private retreat for his Silicon Valley patrons. I took him to dinner (after he obtained permission from some PayPal billionaire). It was a great little restaurant up on a cliff overlooking the lake. It was sunset. While we were drinking a few beers and some wine, we looked at each other and had a sort of misty-eyed moment, and that was that. If Kenneth ever reads this I'm sure he'll recall almost all of it.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:02 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:02 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
The diary I made is not on DhO. It's on another system that some of us created when the Great Schism occurred on another system we created when the Great Schism occurred here.

Cue shargrol!
I want a history seminar. 
shargrol, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:12 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:08 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:31 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:31 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Are there still schisms or have the axes been buried? 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:36 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:36 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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There are no schisms that I'm aware of. We all grew up and made nice to each other. Well, I grew up and made nice.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:40 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:40 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I'm glad. And relieved, because if there were one, I would most likely happen to walk into it blindly and make a mess. 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:45 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:43 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
There are no schisms that I'm aware of. We all grew up and made nice to each other. Well, I grew up and made nice.


I knew it!! That's what they all say. 

edit: actually, very few of them say that, they ignore it, pretend nothing ever happened, or the pieces are still burning. You guys can joke about it. So i bow at the lotus feet of your state of the art nice-making. I'm going to get shargrol drunk, though, and see if he spills anything.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:55 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:54 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Honestly, Tim, if you spend enough time looking for what happened you will find it all. It played out in public, online in these various places. There's no hiding it, and shargrol would definitely need to be drunk to explain it because it would take so fucking long.

It's got everything you need for a great novel - emotionally driven motivation, intrigue, batshit crazy characters, twisted plots and subplots. Hell, it could probably be made into the spiritual version of Game of Thrones, or my favorite trilogy, the Foundation Series by Asimov. By the way, if this ever sees the light of day as an adaption for film or tv, I want to play The Mule.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:00 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:00 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Damn it, now I'm getting curious! It sounds exactly like the kind of film I would love to watch. Can't someone hand over a large bottle of fine whisky to Shargrol? (Still pissed because whisky contains both gluten and loads of histamines and I can't digest any of it. I used to love a good whisky. 17-year-old Ardbeg, cask strength - omnomnom...)
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:03 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:03 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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My moment is long gone, as far as doing this story justice and making us all tons of money through Hollywood and foreign rights. I'm just been through so much stuff on other scenes, from Rajneesh, Baker Roshi, and Muktanada in the early 80s on. or it hit the scenes after i left, or whatever. Humans have scandals and schisms, gonna do what they do when they get together to do a better do. At this point i am just grateful to find a few hard-working, deep-practicing not-entirely-over-the-top assholes who have kept or recovered their senses of humor and who don't immediately tell me to do something stupid or ask for money.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:12 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:07 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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... who don't immediately tell me to do something stupid or ask for money.

Uh, about that money thing... now drop and give me twenty!

Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:24 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 1:24 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
... who don't immediately tell me to do something stupid or ask for money.

Uh, about that money thing... now drop and give me twenty!


The check is in the mail, Babaji. Right after I pay CC.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/11/20 1:33 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:17 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
I see this now in my daughter, who is 17 and suffers from depression. She and I got the chance to talk at great length earlier this week and it became clear to me, unless I’m projecting, that she senses the same dissatisfaction with the process of life that I did, but at a much older age. So now I’m thinking that people who recognize this mismatch, this paradigmatic disconnect, are the ones who will ultimately develop the drive and energy to awaken, and that we, people like us, need to figure out a way to provide an opening to these people.

I've had an inkling for awhile that what some people (myself included) experience of depression is exactly this, and recently I've thought of it as a spiritual sensitivity aka, an inability to ignore the dukkha. I have a brother who I can see this in and he is one of the most compassionate people I know as a result. This is the unshakable feeling that has cornered me into practice. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:29 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:27 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I think so too, and I include myself in that category. And I see it in my kid as well, but she's currently utterly sceptical about my practice and worries that I'm getting involved in some sect, so she will have to find her own way to the dharma when she's ready for it. 

Luckily she doesn't know about my mantra chanting, and I'm not going to tell her. I know exactly how it sounds.
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Siavash, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:56 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:56 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1505 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Luckily she doesn't know about my mantra chanting, and I'm not going to tell her. I know exactly how it sounds.

I would say don't assume any protection/privacy over your shared data here on this forum. This is a public place, and a simple Google search on someone's name will reveal their posts. These posts are not hidden from search engines and doesn't need registration to be able to see them.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 3:10 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 3:01 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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These posts are not hidden from search engines and doesn't need registration to be able to see them.

Yes, this is always a good warning for posters here. One of the "improvements" we implemented on Awakenetwork was to create a private, password-protected space that is not publicly available.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 3:21 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 3:21 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Oh, I know, but I'm pretty sure she is occupied with other things than reading her crazy mom's posts here. If she chooses to read, she is welcome to do so. 
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Milo, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:08 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:08 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 371 Join Date: 11/13/18 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Honestly, Tim, if you spend enough time looking for what happened you will find it all. It played out in public, online in these various places. There's no hiding it, and shargrol would definitely need to be drunk to explain it because it would take so fucking long.

It's got everything you need for a great novel - emotionally driven motivation, intrigue, batshit crazy characters, twisted plots and subplots. Hell, it could probably be made into the spiritual version of Game of Thrones, or my favorite trilogy, the Foundation Series by Asimov. By the way, if this ever sees the light of day as an adaption for film or tv, I want to play The Mule.

Ooh Foundation. Don't hear that mentioned often. One of the greats! And one of those books that's so cerebral it's a wonder it snuck into the mass market.
T, modified 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:39 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/10/20 6:39 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 279 Join Date: 1/15/19 Recent Posts
Is that where some of the people who have made great pointers in the past went to? Fell into the void of the schism? Example - I read Tarin Greco's comments on things because I find her presentation to be accessible to me. Her outline of accessing jhanas was rad. Haven't seen a recent comment in a long, long time. 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:36 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:36 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
shargrol:

I am a cradle Catholic, and familar with Schisms since that Constantinople debacle. Thank you for the edit and tossing me a bone on the link. Now I want to know about KFD, OE, the Dharma Forum Refugees Camp, and awakenetwork. Is David Chapman the guy behind the Vividness and Meaningless blogs? Was he in the mix here at some point. Seriously, inquiring minds want the fucking dirt, guys. You scandal-light bastards need to come clean. I want my seminar!
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:40 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:40 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Okay, got a lot, on the Links page. I still want my history seminar. The tangled family trees of lineages are a particular interest of mine.
shargrol, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:13 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:13 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 1743 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
[quote=Tim Farrington
I am a cradle Catholic, and familar with Schisms since that Constantinople debacle. Thank you for the edit and tossing me a bone on the link. Now I want to know about KFD, OE, the Dharma Forum Refugees Camp, and awakenetwork. Is David Chapman the guy behind the Vividness and Meaningless blogs? Was he in the mix here at some point. Seriously, inquiring minds want the fucking dirt, guys. You scandal-light bastards need to come clean. I want my seminar!
]
Maybe David Chapman, possibly... I can't remember... but definately Alan Chapman of "Open Enlightenment" (and Wiser and now Magia) fame. 

And Chris is right, he did grow up and make nice. I was always nice and I never grew up. ;D
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:17 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 2:17 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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 Is David Chapman the guy behind the Vividness and Meaningless blogs? 

Yes.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:47 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:47 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
came for the logs, stayed for the SCHISMS! 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:52 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:52 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Brandon Dayton:
came for the logs, stayed for the SCHISMS! 

emoticonemoticonemoticon.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:53 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 11:53 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Thanks!

It'd be nice to have a link or something in the wiki. These get referenced enough that I'm sure they'd qualify as "Best of DhO".
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:00 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/9/20 12:00 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Hibiscus Kid:
http://awakenetwork.org/magazine/cmarti/70

Edit: The link is correct but the server is being finicky. It may take a few attempts to open. 


The link worked for me first time, HK, thank you so much. I'm only a short ways in, but am loving it. Chris, emoticon.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 1:36 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 1:36 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Tim Farrington:
Hibiscus Kid:
http://awakenetwork.org/magazine/cmarti/70

Edit: The link is correct but the server is being finicky. It may take a few attempts to open. 


The link worked for me first time, HK, thank you so much. I'm only a short ways in, but am loving it. Chris, emoticon.
Chris, I've been struck lately by how key Kenneth Folke was for you, and also for Papa Che. Could you talk a little about the entwinement of his influence with MCTB, during this period? I am truly fascinated, fuck schism, everybody's forgiven everybody. i just love you guys and these stories are dharma gold.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 6:20 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 6:20 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I'll come back later today, after I do some real-life gig stuff, to weave some of that tale, but I can't violate any, um, confidences  emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 6:26 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/17/20 6:26 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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i know, or can imagine, but would truly love to see what can shake out of that tree legitimately and with metta.
emoticon
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Griffin, modified 2 Years ago at 4/20/20 4:24 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/20/20 4:24 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
I'll come back later today, after I do some real-life gig stuff, to weave some of that tale, but I can't violate any, um, confidences  emoticon

We are still waiting...emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 11:55 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 11:55 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Griffin:
Chris Marti:
I'll come back later today, after I do some real-life gig stuff, to weave some of that tale, but I can't violate any, um, confidences  emoticon

We are still waiting...emoticon

and waiting . . . emoticon
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 11:58 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 11:58 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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What's this about again?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 12:01 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 12:01 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Ah, here we are:

Chris, I've been struck lately by how key Kenneth Folke was for you, and also for Papa Che. Could you talk a little about the entwinement of his influence with MCTB, during this period? I am truly fascinated, fuck schism, everybody's forgiven everybody. i just love you guys and these stories are dharma gold.


Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 12:05 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 12:05 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Ah, here we are:

Chris, I've been struck lately by how key Kenneth Folke was for you, and also for Papa Che. Could you talk a little about the entwinement of his influence with MCTB, during this period? I am truly fascinated, fuck schism, everybody's forgiven everybody. i just love you guys and these stories are dharma gold.



Chug, chug, chug!!!
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 1:57 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 1:56 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Kenneth Folk and I met right here on DhO. He just showed up one day and started posting and handing out advice. I wasn't sure who he was but I eventually learned he was a friend of Daniel Ingram. I believe they would both tell us that Kenneth is the person who got Daniel into the dharma. I think they both were in the music scene went hey met. Folk was a bass player and Daniel was a sound tech, or something like that.

Kenneth Folk had nothing to so with MCTB that I'm aware of. That's all Daniel.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 5:30 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 5:30 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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so, time-line--- what year are we talking about here?
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 5:32 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/23/20 5:32 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
Kenneth Folk and I met right here on DhO. He just showed up one day and started posting and handing out advice. I wasn't sure who he was but I eventually learned he was a friend of Daniel Ingram. I believe they would both tell us that Kenneth is the person who got Daniel into the dharma. I think they both were in the music scene went hey met. Folk was a bass player and Daniel was a sound tech, or something like that.

Kenneth Folk had nothing to so with MCTB that I'm aware of. That's all Daniel.
So, timeline--- what year was this, when you and KF met here? How long had you been here then?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 5:43 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 5:43 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Best guess: 2007, or thereabouts.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:01 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:01 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
Best guess: 2007, or thereabouts.


How did you find out that KF was friends with Daniel?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:03 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:03 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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How did you find out that KF was friends with Daniel?

He told everyone, I think in his first post.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:07 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:07 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
How did you find out that KF was friends with Daniel?

He told everyone, I think in his first post.

And people no doubt replied? And Daniel was way more in the daily DhO loops at that time, right? What did he say when KF showed up?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:16 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:15 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Seriously, it wasn't a big deal.

This was a very different place then. There were some very seriously accomplished people who helped Daniel Ingram start this place: Vincent Horn (Buddhist Geeks Founder) and Hokai Sobol. The Buddhist Geeks podcast was a sort of sun around which a lot of things orbited, including this place. There were eventually Buddhist Geeks conferences, at which we all met, face to face. That's how I first met Kenneth, in person.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:21 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:21 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
Seriously, it wasn't a big deal.

This was a very different place then. There were some very seriously accomplished people who helped Daniel Ingram start this place: Vincent Horn (Buddhist Geeks Founder) and Hokai Sobol. The Buddhist Geeks podcast was a sort of sun around which a lot of things orbited, including this place. There were eventually Buddhist Geeks conferences, at which we all met, face to face. That's how I first met Kenneth, in person.
It would be great if you could use reply-all for this stuff, until you feel it gets too unwieldy in any particular complexes of buddhas-within-buddha-bellies. Then anyone just coming along has as much story shit as the sack will hold, at any given point in the debriefing. It will also make the work-to-come of Pepe, or whoever gets stuck with the historian shit job, easier. Out of metta, then.

So the main action at that point was the Buddhist Geeks podcasts, and conferences? And was this mostly Bay Area folks at that point? where did you live, then? Daniel was in Alabama, right? Did he come to the conferences? Where did Kenneth live?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:31 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:31 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Tim, you've given me an idea. I'm going to talk to Mr. Folk about it. Meantime, please be patient.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:50 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:50 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
Tim, you've given me an idea. I'm going to talk to Mr. Folk about it. Meantime, please be patient.


what, me, anything less than patient and accepting of all that arises?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:51 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:51 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 7:48 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 7:48 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:

Ah that controling of Urge emoticon I'm speechless. That dog is my new teacher! 
Waaaaait! Waaaaaait! Waaaaaaait! Attaboy emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 7:58 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 7:58 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Papa Che Dusko:
Chris Marti:

Ah that controling of Urge emoticon I'm speechless. That dog is my new teacher! 
Waaaaait! Waaaaaait! Waaaaaaait! Attaboy emoticon 

Hold your enthusiasm, please, Papaji, and keep a safe social distance, we're cooking with gas here!

That dog is ME, you [ugly personal attack deleted, per DhO forum rules]!

emoticon
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:13 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:13 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
I hope the idea is to approach Michael Taft or Vince Horn about doing a podcast on the subject.
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Siavash, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:27 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:26 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Brandon Dayton:
I hope the idea is to approach Michael Taft or Vince Horn about doing a podcast on the subject.

I would have prefered writing a book about it, and each chapter of the book by one of these people. One chapter by Daniel, one by Kenneth, one by Chris... ;)
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:28 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/24/20 6:28 PM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I'd read that.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:49 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:49 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I hope the idea is to approach Michael Taft or Vince Horn about doing a podcast on the subject.

Sorry Brandon, that's not what I'm thinking.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:51 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:51 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
I hope the idea is to approach Michael Taft or Vince Horn about doing a podcast on the subject.

Sorry Brandon, that's not what I'm thinking.
Yeah, well, play a card, whatever you ARE thinking. Time is money, man, and poker is time.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:53 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:53 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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I've got plenty of time. And I've got plenty of nothing. And nothin's plenty for me.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:59 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 8:59 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 6273 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Now you're getting me curious. But I'm in no rush.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:21 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:21 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Now you're getting me curious. But I'm in no rush.
Well, i'm not in a rush either. But the thing is, Chris, when we pulled those baseball bats out yesterday and went off half-cocked hunting for bear, I kind of built up a little steam that i had to seal up again. I'd hate to see that vent on you, if you know what i mean, you [horrifying and remarkably explicit and graphic series of epithets deleted, as per DhO forum rules].
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:26 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:26 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:31 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:31 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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That's what my breathing feels like when I focus on letting the energy out through the crown chakra while in downward dog. It's subtler, though.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:38 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:38 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
That's what my breathing feels like when I focus on letting the energy out through the crown chakra while in downward dog. It's subtler, though.


well, "feels like to you." To the outside observer it is simply a gently spiraling pair of entwined threads, one gold and the other color optional.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:36 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:36 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:

Nifty siddhi, there. Thank you. I feel much better now.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:19 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 9:19 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
I've got plenty of time. And I've got plenty of nothing. And nothin's plenty for me.


yeah, yeah, we've all got fucking patient eons of profound acceptance, no hurry at all. But forever is BURNING, man!
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:12 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:04 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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So the main action at that point was the Buddhist Geeks podcasts, and conferences? And was this mostly Bay Area folks at that point? where did you live, then? Daniel was in Alabama, right? Did he come to the conferences? Where did Kenneth live?

The Buddhist Geeks podcast is what brought all these disparate people together face to face once a year at the conferences. (DhO brought people "together" daily.) Vince Horn did the first one in 2011 (?) and there were about four more, once a year, until 2015(?). Most of the conferences were in Boulder. CO but the first one was in LA at a place called "University of the West." Attendees came from all over the place, globally. Hokai from Croatia, for example. My friend Gozen, a Zen master, came from Las Cruces, me from Chicago, and Ron Crouch, too.

Kenneth and I hit it off for some reason. I felt he was more approachable than Daniel. So we started talking here, then in e-mail, and in person at the conferences. I eventually asked him to coach/teach me. We talked on the phone once a week for a long time, and he helped me through the paths, second through fourth. This consisted primarily of Kenneth answering my questions and not so much telling me what practice to use. He was like a trail guide for me, letting me know what was likely going to come next and explaining what had been happening, providing me with a lot of context.


Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:31 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:31 AM

RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
So the main action at that point was the Buddhist Geeks podcasts, and conferences? And was this mostly Bay Area folks at that point? where did you live, then? Daniel was in Alabama, right? Did he come to the conferences? Where did Kenneth live?

The Buddhist Geeks podcast is what brought all these disparate people together face to face once a year at the conferences. DhO brought people together daily. Vince Horn did the first one in 2011 (?) and there were about four more, once a year, until 2015(?). Most of the conferences were in Boulder. CO but the first one was in LA at a place called "University of the West." Attendees came from all over the place, globally. Hokai from Croatia, for example. My friend Gozen, a Zen master, came from Las Cruces, me from Chicago, and Ron Crouch, too.

Kenneth and I hit it off for some reason. I felt he was more approachable than Daniel. So we started talking here, then in e-mail, and in person at the conferences. I eventually asked him to coach/teach me. We talked on the phone once a week for a long time, and he helped me through the paths, second through fourth. This consisted primarily of Kenneth answering my questions and not so much telling me what practice to use. He was like a trail guide for me, letting me know what was likely going to come next and explaining what had been happening, providing me with a lot of context.



Was Kenneth set up on his own, then, or did his coaching/teaching happen within the context of DhO?

I gather that Kenneth and Daniel went all the way back to the early 90s, when they were housemates while going to UNC, yes? Both of them see-sawing somewhere on the pivit of the A&P. Then Kenneth went on a few long retreats after college, amounting to a year in Asia, hard core shit, and Daniel, seeing that his old pal had gotten onto something obviously good, went on his first retreat in the summer of 1994. There followed a very active period of humanitarian work, the year in India, and then in 1995, Daniel says he got a letter from Kenneth (MCBT2, p. 469).

Where was Kenneth then, and what had he been up to during Daniel's globetrotting and immersion in third world dukha? There seems to be a hinge point around waking up the the stages of insight, mapping, and Dark Night stuff right about there. For both of them?

Yes, I cheated and went back more than a decade and a half here. But inquiring minds would love to know. This is how this shit happens, man: real people doing actual things in murky circumstances, bad weather, and lots of trial and error. It's priceless lore, and I beg you to keep indulging me.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:37 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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... I beg you to keep indulging me.

Am I going to need a manager? An agent? An attorney?
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:46 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
... I beg you to keep indulging me.

Am I going to need a manager? An agent? An attorney?
Yes, probably. I can certainly arrange that for you, for a nominal fee, and would even be willing to represent you myself, for a piece of this action.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:42 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Tim, I don't know much at all about Kenneth's pre-DhO history. There's more in the public domain anyway, as you've already discovered.
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:05 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Tim,

Have your read Kenneth's book draft? I think it might cover some of these questions. He gives his history from being a suicidal cocaine addict to fourth path. I thought it was pretty cool. 

https://eudoxos.github.io/cfitness/html/index.html
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:09 AM
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That's the book he never, ever, ever, ever can finish. 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:19 AM
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Chris Marti:
That's the book he never, ever, ever, ever can finish. 


[Farrington, ever ready to rush in where angels fear to tread, bites immediately:] Why is that, Chris?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:28 AM
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Why is that, Chris?

I'll answer this one - because Kenneth Folk is what I'd call a serial quitter. He would agree. He likes to start projects he finds interesting, at first, and when he's no longer interested, he drops them. I have no idea why this happens and I don't think he understands the behavior, either. It's just part of his DNA.


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Siavash, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:09 AM
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Brandon Dayton:
Tim,

Have your read Kenneth's book draft? I think it might cover some of these questions. He gives his history from being a suicidal cocaine addict to fourth path. I thought it was pretty cool. 

https://eudoxos.github.io/cfitness/html/index.html


Oh, great. Thanks for this. Cocaine addict for how long? (How long is the key with addiction, often)
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Brandon Dayton, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:31 PM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Cocaine addict for how long? (How long is the key with addiction, often)
Not sure. He was in his twenties when the story started so it couldn't have been that long. It's definitely a story worth reading.
That's the book he never, ever, ever, ever can finish.

Lots of juicy stuff there whether it's "finished" or not. It almost reads as an abriged version of MCTB (with Kenneth's own spin of course). I really like that the narrative is up front. Re-reading bits of it got me on the cushion this mornning.
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Siavash, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 3:38 PM
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Thanks Brandon.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:17 AM
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Brandon Dayton:
Tim,

Have your read Kenneth's book draft? I think it might cover some of these questions. He gives his history from being a suicidal cocaine addict to fourth path. I thought it was pretty cool. 

https://eudoxos.github.io/cfitness/html/index.html

Ah!! Thank you!!
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:52 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
So the main action at that point was the Buddhist Geeks podcasts, and conferences? And was this mostly Bay Area folks at that point? where did you live, then? Daniel was in Alabama, right? Did he come to the conferences? Where did Kenneth live?

The Buddhist Geeks podcast is what brought all these disparate people together face to face once a year at the conferences. (DhO brought people "together" daily.) Vince Horn did the first one in 2011 (?) and there were about four more, once a year, until 2015(?). Most of the conferences were in Boulder. CO but the first one was in LA at a place called "University of the West." Attendees came from all over the place, globally. Hokai from Croatia, for example. My friend Gozen, a Zen master, came from Las Cruces, me from Chicago, and Ron Crouch, too.

Kenneth and I hit it off for some reason. I felt he was more approachable than Daniel. So we started talking here, then in e-mail, and in person at the conferences. I eventually asked him to coach/teach me. We talked on the phone once a week for a long time, and he helped me through the paths, second through fourth. This consisted primarily of Kenneth answering my questions and not so much telling me what practice to use. He was like a trail guide for me, letting me know what was likely going to come next and explaining what had been happening, providing me with a lot of context.


Okay, then back to our written oral eyewitness history, then.

"He helped me through the paths, second through fourth." ("And after seeing the ascetic monk, Gautama went on to become the Buddha.")

Stories! You guys hit it off. How much did you laugh? What about? Who was sleeping with whom? And what about that long meandering drunken conversation, wherever that was? How does that fit in here.

Jesus, Marti. Little help, here.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 10:57 AM
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I just knew I was going to need an attorney. 
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:17 AM
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Chris Marti:
I just knew I was going to need an attorney. 

Well, that's what attorneys do: they get innocent people just trying to live their lives into legal quagmires along the fault lines of competing interests, and then make a ton of money by making the problems they originally created worse.

Shall we talk about my retainer fee, for leading you into a mine field?
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:19 AM
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I've worked with many an attorney and I've worked against a few, too. Can you lead me where I won't actually go?
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:21 AM
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Chris Marti:
I've worked with many an attorney and I've worked against a few, too. Can you lead me where I won't actually go?

That would depend on how thirsty you are, and how prepared you are to live with that thirst in service to the higher dot you have your eye on.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:28 AM
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I once, long ago, had my eye on a Dot. She had other ideas.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 11:32 AM
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That would depend on how thirsty you are, and how prepared you are to live with that thirst...

Hmmm...  who's more thirsty?
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 12:32 PM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:
That would depend on how thirsty you are, and how prepared you are to live with that thirst...

Hmmm...  who's more thirsty?

Here’s the thing I thirst for here, or at least an example of my thirst being quenched in a completely unexpected way, which is the only way this particular kind of thirst can be quenched:

once upon a time, I knew a guy at the Episcopalian Church where my wife at the time was the director of Christian Education, name of Fred, a huge ex-Marine officer, 6 foot 4, 350 pounds, former linebacker kind of guy, gone somewhat rounder. He and i used to get together and shoot the shit over a whiskey or three, and he would tell what war stories he was allowed to--- he had been a LURP squad leader in Vietnam, but that recon unit of his did not always, shall we say, operate in Vietnam, and therefore he was honor bound to leave a lot of shit black. Still, incredible stories from a man who seen his share of mega shit hit the hurricane fans.

If that was all it had ever been, i would have been a happy, happy man, with a friend like that, whiskey like that, stories like that. But then one day Fred decided, possibly under the advisement of either Dr. Jack or Dr. Jim, as he called the whiskeys, that he was going to finally go to the Wall, the Vietnam Memorial in DC. He had never been because, as he had told me several times, at peak whiskey hours, he had only lost one guy the whole time he was out there with his guys for weeks at a time in the far fields of places which shall remain nameless, with no hope of evac or support, basically. It was his point man. And ever time he mentioned that, there was a catch in his voice, and another shot or two before things went on in a different direction.

So he asks me if I’d like to come along, i say, Duh, and off we go, along with a Navy guy who’d done his own time over there in patrol boats
in the Mekong Delta. So the three of us get to DC, on a very mild spring day, Fred has already sweated through his shirt, a quarter mile from the Wall. And we get there and start looking for the point man’s name: Barry Price. We find him in the catalogue first, and then on Panel 17-E—54, and stand there looking at it in silence, and I glance at Fred and there are just rivers of tears streaming down his face, and the occasional sob, and we just stand there a long long time without a word, while everyone else goes about their own grief business around us. It was just pure grace, to be there.

And at some point, feeling sort of like a slimeball, i quietly got my camera up and took a shot of Fred and Bob’s reflection in the Wall. It felt ghoulish, almost, but I'm glad i did it, and i eventually gave both Fred and Bob copies of the photo, and they were glad i had done it too.

You see? Who could say they are thirsty for that? You don’t even know how to thirst for a moment like that. And all you can do is be grateful for it when it come as a pure gift.

So you’re a combat veteran who’s done his time under fire in places and situations I know how to respect. And I’m willing to be here pouring the whiskey as long as i can keep you drinking and talking, because i don’t know what form that water of life may present itself in, but i’ll know it when we taste it.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 12:34 PM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:13 PM
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Thank you for that picture. I don't have any with that kind of meaning behind them. But seriously, thank you.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:07 PM
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Tim, I have nothing in my past, nothing that is even light years close, to your friend Fred or his Navy pal. Nothing. I've spent a lot of time with people like that over the past few years and I know this, really deep down.

I was working a few years ago with a retired Lt. General, name withheld, teaching a class, and we take our class full of business executives on a tour of West Point. One of the stops is the cemetery. This is a sacred place. It feels sacred, and I mean seriously fucking special. Like, I get chills and my hair stands on end every time I visit this place. So the general does his history speech, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and so on, as he slowly walks among the graves, and also telling the story of what's actually required to have the so-called privilege of being buried there. There are names we'd recognize. Big-time names, famous Army names, on the grave markers and headstones. But he's not looking at those. He keeps going and then stops at one particular grave. I'm standing there, watching, and something clicks in my head and I try to walk over to listen more closely, and I see a name on that grave, and it's his last name. I'm still a good thirty feet away, so I think well, that's a pretty common last name. And we move along and we all get back on our bus and continue the tour.

Eventually, we get back to the classroom. I'm now sitting next to the general at a table in the back of the room and I see a copper bracelet on his wrist. He's not watching me, he's listening to another instructor who's now teaching the class. The bracelet makes me curious. I have to wait for him to move his arm to a certain position so I can read what's on that bracelet. He finally does, and SHIT! it's the same name that was on the grave he was standing next to on the tour. But it's his daughter's name. Captain Deborah Soandso, USMA 2007, KIA Afghanistan, May 2011.

I can't even imagine the sacrifice these people make. These families make.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:19 PM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Chris Marti:

I was working a few years ago with a retired Lt. General, name withheld, teaching a class, and we take our class full of business executives on a tour of West Point. One of the stops is the cemetery. This is a sacred place. It feels sacred, and I mean seriously fucking special. Like, I get chills and my hair stands on end every time I visit this place. So the general does his history speech, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and so on, as he slowly walks among the graves, and also telling the story of what's actually required to have the so-called privilege of being buried there. There are names we'd recognize. Big-time names, famous Army names, on the grave markers and headstones. But he's not looking at those. He keeps going and then stops at one particular grave. I'm standing there, watching, and something clicks in my head and I try to walk over to listen more closely, and I see a name on that grave, and it's his last name. I'm still a good thirty feet away, so I think well, that's a pretty common last name. And we move along and we all get back on our bus and continue the tour.

Eventually, we get back to the classroom. I'm now sitting next to the general at a table in the back of the room and I see a copper bracelet on his wrist. He's not watching me, he's listening to another instructor who's now teaching the class. The bracelet makes me curious. I have to wait for him to move his arm to a certain position so I can read what's on that bracelet. He finally does, and SHIT! it's the same name that was on the grave he was standing next to on the tour. But it's his daughter's name. Captain Deborah Soandso, USMA 2007, KIA Afghanistan, May 2011.

I can't even imagine the sacrifice these people make. These families make.
That's it, the goosebump factor, humility, awe, love, admiration, respect, for people who have paid full price.

Tim, I have nothing in my past, nothing that is even light years close, to your friend Fred or his Navy pal. Nothing. I've spent a lot of time with people like that over the past few years and I know this, really deep down.


You belied this just by telling that one story already. Shut up and drink your fucking whiskey.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:22 PM
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Well... cheers, Tim.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/25/20 1:26 PM
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Cheers to you, Chris.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 8:47 AM
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I have another story eating its way out of me this morning. The therapy is to tell it:

My father-in-law retired as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force. He started his service from ROTC (Penn State) during the Cuban Missile Crisis and ended it running the southeastern U.S. airspace out of Tyndal AFB in Panama City, FL. If you saw the movie The Great Santini, he was just like the father in that story, played by Robert Duvall. He did a lot of flying all over the world and wasn't home much, but my wife's family moved to wherever he was posted and lived there, except Vietnam. He did several tours in Southeast Asia in the 1970s, one piloting SF into various weird places and another defoliating the jungles using Agent Orange. Like so many vets from that era, it was the Agent Orange that got him.

He developed several types of cancer and had severe respiratory issues. He was hospitalized in Panama City but they couldn't keep him there - didn't have the ventilator expertise (sounds familiar, eh?). So they moved him up to Dothan, AL, about 90 miles north. He could no longer breathe on his own and because of the ventilator he couldn't talk or eat by himself. He used a little whiteboard to write messages on but after a while, he couldn't do that, either. My mother-in-law would not let this man go, even though all the docs and most of the family said otherwise. This stand-off between the let him go and the make him suffer factions lasted for months. No one can breathe on their own and survive being taken off a ventilator for that long.

But eventually, the time came. He was moved to a hospice facility back in Panama City. We flew down to say goodbye. He arrived in an ambulance and they put him in a private room. He was there for a few hours and then the decision was made to remove the ventilator. Out came the tubes.  Then he raised both arms and did thumbs-up with both hands. 

Thumbs up!
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 9:15 AM
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RE: Where in the World are Chris Marti's Practice Logs?

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Wow, that's quite the story. 
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 9:18 AM
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Want more?   emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 9:58 AM
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Sure! I'm picturing a whole collection of concice dharma stories by the laconic arahant C. Marti, with a foreword by Tim Farrington that is longer than the entire collection.
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Chris Marti, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 10:34 AM
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... with a foreword by Tim Farrington that is longer than the entire collection.

As it should be! Tim is a much better writer.
Tim Farrington, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 11:22 AM
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Sure! I'm picturing a whole collection of concice dharma stories by the laconic arahant C. Marti, with a foreword by Tim Farrington that is longer than the entire collection.


No fucking way, i'm willing to write a relatively short but truly gorgeous, loving, and funny afterword, and a blurb for the back cover. But only if the tome of that fucking laconic [you know, deleted. etc, per etc] is long enough to serve as a reasonable doorstop, as my own shelves are full.

Do NOT contact my agent on this negotiation, as she will fuck it up like she always does by charging in there and asking for money.
shargrol, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 9:59 AM
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Chris Marti:
Want more?   emoticon

i do!
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Steph S, modified 2 Years ago at 4/26/20 10:46 AM
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