I don't know about all y'all, but one of the hardest collection of sensations for me to slug through is the ones associated with boredom - even more so than overt anger, fear, sadness, and much of the other stuff generally considered unpleasant. When I get to a point in a sit where it seems boring or dull, sometimes I'll tune out/zone out and let the mind loops rip or just want to get up. But other times I feel more compelled to investigate it. And boredom is totally unboring under a microscope.

Really it's a very deep dive into subtle anger and restlessness. It feels like craving/aversion/clinging are having a temper tantrum at the edge of a cliff when you look closely. A pattern of push-pull between them. The areas of the heart, solar plexus, and gut all have these concentrations of tensions that feel like they push outward (like they're grasping forward) - part of that forward motion feeling that makes you feel like you want to get up. Then add to that, the glutes and backs of the legs have tension that seems like it's trying to propel the body up and forward. This can get really intense when you first focus in on it, which is why it makes ya feel like you need to get up immediately, especially when it's interspersed with a forward pulling tension in the gut. 

Mental formations do this thing where they seem to turn back away from themselves - the zone out. And kinda throughout the body there's a dull, cloudy feeling that when you look at more closely is actually a very subtle buzzing of anger. It's like this low level hum of anger that moves really slowly and seems dense until you zoom in and it starts to pixelate. Wild stuff.

Just some thoughts and something to look at next time you're bored on the cushion.

Indeed,
1st Noble Truth - Urge exists
2nd Noble Truth - Urge leads to Clinging
3nd Nobel truth - Examine this Urge to its bones
4th Noble Truth - Cessation of the Urge

(smiley urge)  

And it is said, Noble Ones, that through the smiley there is cessation. 

Hi Steph, and welcome back into DhO circulation! I thought i felt a breath of fresh air, and was inclined to dismiss it as a rippling kriya, but lo and behold, here you are.

I have studied at the lotus feet of Sri Ananda Papa Che, and he has initiated me into the mysteries, not only of the smiley, but of emojis everyhwhere. He has taught me everything I needed to know. He has pissed on my candle flame, and i am extinguished.

That's an excellent description of the phenomenology. I'll try to keep it in mind when boredom hits me, because it's a tough one for me as well.

Oops! Whas THAT your candle flame? Sorry  , it was dark and we were young and that wine was so sweet and there was this nightingale singing and ... 

I find boredom to be very close to pure terror, especially in light of a mythological intuition that includes the Bodhisattva vow. Like: endure this boredom shit until all sentient beings are not boring? AAAAHHHHH! (scream emoji here, bow to Papa Che)

I work from pretty much the same place, i suspect, with what i think of as "interest", as in "Is there any?" Beginning from the aforementioned panic that there's not, sixth nana ("There's not! {aaahhhhh}"); moving into the nana of Misery ("There's really not, fuck, there really is not, not here, not there"); add a touch of Disgust, at God, man, and existence and non-existence, ("Well, there fucking should have been, but there's really not, goddammit, somebody rally fucked up, probably me, if i fucking existed"); Desire for Deliverance follws pretty naturally from there ("No interest, no problem, i'm out of here by any means possible", and the next iteration of the technique encompassing the entire boring shebang; and Re-observation, "Upon review: borrrrring". EQ is not boring. There is not necessarily anything recognizable as "interesting," initially, but not-boring will do, until all sentient beings are not bored. Amen.

Interesting you state EQ is not boring In my experience EQ turned to be very much a Status-Quo Style Boredom in its late stage. Even that was Ok, boring, lets observe it and accept it for what it is. I find this part to be the very thing to be seen so to get over it. EQ is not satisfactory in and of itself not a place to be in and of itself. Life is more than just Neither Pleasant nor Unpleasant. Anicca kicks ars heavily on all the fronts HA! It even kicks the Dukkha and Anatta. Its da Mama of ars kicking  

This brings me to a question; Are Arahants subject to Anicca? Im asking seriously. Does it cease? Im asking as in This-ness there is no continuity as there is just This. hence not subject to Anicca unless I think of This has Passed and This has Arisen.

Well, Papaji, you have to understand that anything beyond EQ is technically against my Jewish Sectarian religion. Where theravadans find stream entry, I find nothing but the will of God and His all-merciful hand at work. When boredom sets in in EQ for me (of course it does, you're right about that), i panic and plunge into the dukha of writing a novel or something.

That is a great fucking question, mate.  (the Darth Vader is the emoji for asking an Arahant to arise from sunyata and answer it.)

Where da arahants at that wanna answer this? My guess is that impermanence becomes somewhat of a "does not apply" scenario. Not that things don't come and go or change over time in terms of relative reality, but at the fundamental level more that all 3 of the characteristics have been seen through so clearly that they all get extinguished. If somebody can notice 2 of the 3 characteristics at once, it results in cessation, right? So at the ultimate attainment, wouldn't all 3 characteristics been seen through to the point that none of them really exist anymore in experience. 

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that phenemona no longer have that conditioned aspect where one would misperceive that they are an entity that observes sensations as arising and passing. Said another way, maybe impermanence becomes a non-issue because there is no longer seen to be a stable consciousness in which things would arise and pass. 

I've heard Ingram say that there is no sense of Continuity any more. This certainly applies that Anicca is no more of an issue. (that sounds soooo sweet)

Sure he also state there is no center point and hence no sense of self (ok I get that)

If these two are no more then dukkha simply cant come into being. Who would suffer and from what? Right Or does Dukkha just turns into bubbling vibrations and hence seen for what it is?

This means ALL 3 C's seen at the same instance of This-ness and they vanish.

Ok this gives me an interesting fresh view on this whole thing. Thank you.


p.s. back to dumbbell vipassana for me ...

"wouldn't all 3 characteristics been seen through to the point that none of them really exist anymore in experience."

Ok, Im rereading this ... the way you say it here brings me back to DISPASSION due to seeing phenomena again and again for what they are. Also, in the profound moment of Satipatthana, in THIS moment of applying profound minfulness on the object there is ONLY THIS sensation/mind state and nothing else, no self, no anicca, no suffering. 

As things arise and pass so effing fast it is impossible to actually ponder the 3C's so there is some sort or intuitive seeing of the 3C's without any applied thought about it.

... I might be over me head here ...




... back to me dumbbell vipassana ...

bump cuz Tim referenced this thread in another thread