### Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

 Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/9/20 11:42 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/5/20 11:47 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Dustin 6/11/20 8:45 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/12/20 6:41 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/12/20 11:08 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Alesh Vyhnal 12/3/20 6:20 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Noah D 6/6/20 12:01 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Noah D 6/6/20 10:03 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Noah D 6/6/20 11:03 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/6/20 11:31 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/6/20 11:47 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brian 6/7/20 1:24 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/7/20 1:41 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brian 6/7/20 5:11 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/7/20 6:17 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brandon Dayton 6/7/20 12:19 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/7/20 3:37 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/7/20 5:12 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 1:48 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brian 6/6/20 3:45 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/6/20 5:35 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 12:08 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/7/20 11:46 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 12:42 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path J C 6/7/20 2:47 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 2:56 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/7/20 3:07 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path J C 6/7/20 4:30 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/7/20 6:17 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/8/20 6:43 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path J C 6/10/20 2:59 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/10/20 5:54 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path J C 6/10/20 3:10 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/10/20 11:50 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/11/20 2:12 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/11/20 6:51 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path George S 6/12/20 1:04 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/11/20 9:41 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path J C 6/11/20 2:24 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/11/20 2:10 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path ahtrahddis 6/11/20 12:02 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/11/20 6:35 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/10/20 6:20 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/7/20 3:02 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 3:15 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 6/7/20 5:54 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 7:32 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Daniel M. Ingram 6/7/20 7:54 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/8/20 2:23 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 2:51 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steph S 6/8/20 8:52 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 10:42 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steph S 6/8/20 11:09 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 11:30 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steph S 6/8/20 11:50 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 12:21 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Sam Gentile 6/8/20 11:34 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/8/20 1:26 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 2:13 PM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Hector L 12/26/20 10:05 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brandon Dayton 6/6/20 5:54 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/7/20 3:35 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/7/20 12:10 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/7/20 1:45 AM RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/7/20 3:40 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jazz Muzak 6/7/20 7:51 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Not two, not one 6/8/20 2:43 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Z . 12/18/20 9:58 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 2:31 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Z . 6/8/20 3:09 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 11:35 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path U Ba Fin 6/8/20 2:58 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Daniel M. Ingram 6/8/20 5:56 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/8/20 6:50 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/8/20 11:28 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Jake Frankfurt Middenhall 6/9/20 1:34 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path U Ba Fin 6/9/20 2:04 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/9/20 3:32 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/9/20 6:51 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/9/20 7:43 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/9/20 7:55 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/9/20 8:07 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Z . 9/13/20 3:00 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/9/20 10:44 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path spatial 6/8/20 8:55 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/9/20 6:31 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path spatial 6/9/20 9:01 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/9/20 10:33 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/9/20 10:37 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Olivier S 6/9/20 1:10 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/9/20 1:37 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/9/20 2:02 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/9/20 3:44 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path This very moment 6/9/20 10:29 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Luka Kljaic 6/9/20 8:39 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path An Eternal Now 6/9/20 9:06 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steph S 6/9/20 11:00 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Papa Che Dusko 6/9/20 11:09 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Z . 9/13/20 3:05 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tommaso Tommasi 6/9/20 10:51 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path n0nick 6/14/20 8:28 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/19/20 5:00 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Not two, not one 6/19/20 5:23 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/19/20 5:38 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/19/20 6:37 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path mrdust 6/19/20 9:49 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/19/20 10:32 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/19/20 1:41 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Not two, not one 6/19/20 3:12 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Olivier S 6/19/20 3:35 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/20/20 8:40 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Siavash ' 6/20/20 11:33 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 6/20/20 6:36 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tim Farrington 6/20/20 9:04 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Siavash ' 6/20/20 9:39 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Grin Spickett 6/21/20 4:37 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Olivier S 9/10/20 9:32 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Olivier S 9/10/20 9:33 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steve James 9/12/20 2:32 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steve James 9/12/20 2:37 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path James 9/22/20 10:25 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Brandon Dayton 10/1/20 12:10 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Steve James 10/3/20 9:04 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Sam Gentile 10/3/20 4:17 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tom C 10/5/20 6:25 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path osokin * 10/7/20 9:47 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 10/7/20 1:23 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 10/7/20 1:51 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 10/7/20 4:25 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 10/7/20 5:44 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 10/8/20 2:17 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 10/8/20 7:42 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 10/8/20 8:55 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 10/8/20 10:17 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Ni Nurta 10/8/20 4:43 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Chris M 10/8/20 4:59 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/8/20 8:53 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tom C 10/12/20 4:19 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Daniel M. Ingram 10/15/20 10:25 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tom C 10/26/20 11:49 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/26/20 4:47 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tom C 10/27/20 11:23 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/27/20 3:00 PM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 10/17/20 7:15 AM RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path Tom C 10/26/20 1:34 PM

#### Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
Someone posted this on my group and I thought it is good to share this here. His practice background includes the mahasi path and fruitions, 8 jhanas, as well as what I call I Am and one mind. He just attained MCTB 4th path from the looks of it, two weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/ZGN9nCJ33Tk

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
He posts meditation notes on his instagram being_frank_yang

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1210 Join Date: 9/1/16
This is fascinating.  He has a wide range of possibly contradictory interests (that I relate to) & a lot of youtube followers.

Edit: I thought this part was pretty funny https://youtu.be/ZGN9nCJ33Tk?t=609

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/21/19
I had never seen this guy, and at first he just seemed manic or something. But something about it rang true to me and I'm inclined to believe him. Inspired, I sat my own way (Vimalaramsi, 6R) and had an amazing sit.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
An Eternal Now:
Someone posted this on my group and I thought it is good to share this here. His practice background includes the mahasi path and fruitions, 8 jhanas, as well as what I call I Am and one mind. He just attained MCTB 4th path from the looks of it, two weeks ago.
Frank's slightly manic mind state is probably result of mahasi noting. It overflows from him =)
He reminds me of Daniel Ingram a lot so it might really be MCTB 4th path.
Still Daniel seems to have progressed further and have way more colorful vibrations. Still the same general practice framework so they have similar qualities about them.

I however think he speaks about lack of integration way too soon. What is two weeks? Nothing.
Though maybe it is not so much integration period as it is cooling off period and giving yourself time to verify own enlightenment somewhat.
Of course no one can blame anyone for being excited =)

I just hope he doesn't stop at just having effects and starts to clarify things that he experiences and put them in to words. Generating thoughts and words from them is the difference between enlightened spoon and enlightened human being.

ps. Having best moment in his life when reading manga... you do not really need enlightenment for that to be true

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19
Frank Yang

My advice to someone in mid-path...FINISH THE FUCKING JOB!       it's worth it.
This is so worth watching.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1210 Join Date: 9/1/16
Yeah I mean he clearly works as a social media influencer for a living & is necessarily putting on a show.  But it is a unique show that intersects with prag dharm, so what's not to like (other than the misogyny)?  Regardless of where he is on the lines & levels of spiritual evolution, I am happy that the video exists.  I also like that this is popping up & also things like Midnight Gospel on Netflix (which references lots of pragdharm things) are popping up.  Gradually the population is realizing that the only thing to do is examine the sensations of this very moment (or maybe now I am manic).

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1210 Join Date: 9/1/16
I picked up the problematic elements of Frank Yang's content from other videos & posts, not that one.  It gets much weirder...

That's annoying that Mind of a Chef was removed.  The associated youtube channel has a lot of it still.

You're speaking of right attitude.  Nothing like some gusto to counter dukkha.  Cutting edge for me right now as well.  Where am I needlessly antidoting tension in my life with advanced spiritual awareness techniques when all I need is plain old fashioned 'hurrah' instead?  Apparently a lot of places the more I investigate.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
His breakthrough is definitely genuine and descriptions match mine (as well as MCTB, I know).

But his eyes... they look just like mine after my breakthrough last year in terms of intensity of experience. (details: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-magical-fairytale-like-wonderland.html )

Now my eyes and facial expressions are more normal, especially after John Tan ('Thusness') told me not to open my eyes so wide lest I trigger another energy imbalance.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
[12:15 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: If one does not penetrate deeply into DO and Emptiness, then he must resort back into seeing the deep dark abyss of silence.
[12:17 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: The opposite side of vivid presence must b integrated.
[12:21 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: ic..
[12:21 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: is it like the cessation he mentioned?
[12:22 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: he said consciousness blinks out for him everyday
[12:22 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: in a meditative state
[12:22 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: He overlook cessation, many do when presence vivid aliveness is revealed.
[12:22 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: i think he still access cessation everyday due to mahasi practice
[12:23 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: also 8 jhanas
[12:23 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: That is not important...everyone knows sensations blink in and out of existence...it is how one penetrates and integrate with mature insights.
[12:23 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: oic..
[12:25 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: Look at his eyes and expressions like u wanted to look at the surrounding as if there is more to see...more to feel...lol
[12:27 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: thats how i looked like last year lol
[12:27 PM, 6/7/2020] Soh Wei Yu: now more normal
[12:28 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: When one has same insight of presence from anatta directed into silence, then the "wanting" to be more alive, more vivid, more radiance will be balanced...
[12:28 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: Buddhism imo has its unique way of dealing with this balance...
[12:29 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: Taoism focuses deep into this abyss of darkness ... But a balance is needed...
[12:30 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: Like when u hear sound, it is always silence/sound...the flow of music is also the continuous flow of silence...
[12:30 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: Can u hear that?
[12:39 PM, 6/7/2020] John Tan: In total exertion, an instantaneous arising of sound exhaust everything.  Just that "tingsss"....

For a Taoist master, the deep dark abyss gives rise to that sound...same immensity and power...

Can u feel both?

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Frank's slightly manic mind state is probably result of mahasi noting. It overflows from him
Naah he was always like that. He has ADHD too, so it partially explains his behaviour.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Wow, Frank Yang... I used to watch his BBC videos years ago, i used to laugh and think to myself "Wtf is wrong with this dude?"

And now he is enlightened.... This really really inspires me.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/21/19
Just speaking frankly in the hopes that it could help you, when you start casually talking about "misogyny" and "problematic", it gives me much more concern about your mind than the mind of the person you're talking about.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
I can certainly understand the concerns about the 'misogyny' part.. Also I think I saw a post on IG while I was scanning through yesterday in 2019 where he said he was sleeping with 100+ women within 1 year, years ago and that reduced to 30+, then 3 in 2019 and his spiritual practice realizations helped him overcome his sex addiction and ego fulfillment through women or something and for the most part he no longer get horny. I suppose things improve over time if one is on a genuine spiritual path and practicing hard. Everyone is a work in progress.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Wow, Frank Yang... I used to watch his BBC videos years ago, i used to laugh and think to myself "Wtf is wrong with this dude?"

And now he is enlightened.... This really really inspires me.

Lol I thought he got interviewed on BBC after your post and then I searched the videos on youtube and had a good laugh

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Brandon Dayton:
Frank Yang

My advice to someone in mid-path...FINISH THE FUCKING JOB!       it's worth it.
This is so worth watching.

lol, no shit. wow. fucking enlightenment. i want to have a drink with this guy, many drinks, then go slep it off under a bridge.

fucking enlightened fuckin motherfucker. in the beginning, he was like, "What the fuck?

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Noah D:
This is fascinating.  He has a wide range of possibly contradictory interests (that I relate to) & a lot of youtube followers.

Edit: I thought this part was pretty funny https://youtu.be/ZGN9nCJ33Tk?t=609

fuckety fuck! He is beyond duality--- he says he is non-local! i spent several years failing to write a physics/meditation novel called "Locality Fails." It was way too allegorical. This shit? lol. not allegorical.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
An Eternal Now:
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Wow, Frank Yang... I used to watch his BBC videos years ago, i used to laugh and think to myself "Wtf is wrong with this dude?"

And now he is enlightened.... This really really inspires me.

Lol I thought he got interviewed on BBC after your post and then I searched the videos on youtube and had a good laugh

cherries popping everywhere, baby. This is one of the best shows in town. thanks for the head's up.

conclusion: "everybody at the core, is a fully enlightened (chomp comp) buddha. that's you, me, whatever. everybody. even this/" (by which i think he meant his food, but i was tripping, by then)

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 95 Join Date: 1/21/19
Does that sound like misogyny to you?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Brian:
Does that sound like misogyny to you?

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Frank's slightly manic mind state is probably result of mahasi noting. It overflows from him
Naah he was always like that. He has ADHD too, so it partially explains his behaviour.
In videos from few years ago he is also showing ADHD but in different way.

Daniel is better example of what these practices do so can be used for reference. Just see how he his mind seems to be constantly resetting from some sort of sensual overload that is constantly going on and he is picking his sensual experience and mind. He enjoys it but still it doesn't seem very natural.

Instead of throwing bunch of words alone I will throw an image about something called "response time compensation" or "overdrive" in LCD monitors which nicely represents how you can overdo things in your mind in visual form:

Sensations everywhere are self liberated, everything is enlightened, etc. nonsense is sign of overcorrection and generating perception artifacts.

Thing to note here would be that: if all these people did not think all these effects were some sort of sign of enlightenment and sign of sensation liberating themselves but instead signs of perception issues they would not experience pleasure from them but instead suffer tremendously.

What is saving grace for most people but also limiting factor in getting actually enlightened is lack of rigorous skepticism about everything that is being experienced. That is why people take results as they appear to them and even if theory behind them is nonsensical like everything modern dharma is selling is they will accept it. If they were skeptical about all this silly stuff they would of course not have time of their life with these effects and would still need to dwell further and this is why people are reluctant to question these things, they feel if they were to do so all this bubble would burst faster than it was formed. But at the end they would go further in their understating and their mind abilities if they did.

This is why one is said to be most likely spending many long kalpas at some level (3rd path is I remember correctly) before moving through it to attain actual enlightenment. It is not even subtle ignorance but major one... perhaps as they say the most obvious things are the most dificult to be seen.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19
Tim Farrington:
Brian:
Does that sound like misogyny to you?

Part of the value of this video (to the degree that it is legit) is that it emphasizes how extremely narrow a part of human development awakening can potentially be. A multitude of axes of development, indeed.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Daniel is better example of what these practices do so can be used for reference
Could be, but then why some other 4th path teachers like Kenneth Folk doesn´t behave like that? If i remeber correctly both of them had the same teacher and did the same practices. I honestly though that it was just Daniels personality.
This is why one is said to be most likely spending many long kalpas at some level (3rd path is I remember correctly) before moving through it to attain actual enlightenment

.Well. if we go by the actual doctrine, you should spend 3 asamkheyas kalpas (countless aeons) to reach Buddhahood, and that was in the best of cases. It was the Vajrayana  that said it was possible in a single lifetime, i don´t believe their claim at all but that is another issue.

.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 644 Join Date: 4/24/13
Kenneth has a very different model of the paths than Daniel - he defines "4th path" very differently, so they're not necessarily at the same place on the path just because they use the same label. I don't believe Kenneth claims to be 4th path as described by Daniel.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Could be, but then why some other 4th path teachers like Kenneth Folk doesn´t behave like that? If i remeber correctly both of them had the same teacher and did the same practices. I honestly though that it was just Daniels personality.

Because it is Daniel personality ~_^
I do not think Daniel and Kenneth agree completely on all details of 4th path but they certainly do meet on certain layer and seem to have similar processes happening inside them that are result of Vipassana.
I am also not really judging what kind of mind state is the best one here. As long as it suits its user then all is fine.
In the end those are just impulses that fire or don't fire inside of the brain and if rest of the brain interprets them as pleasurable then what is there to not like.

I am only saying that mind states you get are the result of practices you do (EDIT:// and interpretations you give to what is happening)
What should one do with pleasant mind states ultimately if not to see what they really are made from?
Practice clear view/perception on all sense doors, including unnamed and internal ones.

This is why one is said to be most likely spending many long kalpas at some level (3rd path is I remember correctly) before moving through it to attain actual enlightenment

.Well. if we go by the actual doctrine, you should spend 3 asamkheyas kalpas (countless aeons) to reach Buddhahood, and that was in the best of cases. It was the Vajrayana  that said it was possible in a single lifetime, i don´t believe their claim at all but that is another issue.

When universe gets destroyed it takes some time until it get to be rebuilt.

Wasn't it Buddha himself who said that reality being some kind of solid thing or whatever is some fancy-schmancy illusion?

Diamond sutta:
All conditioned dharmas
Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, or shadows;
Like drops of dew, or like flashes of lightning;
Thusly should they be contemplated.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Really? From what i undestand they both agree on what Enlightenment is. The rest are just futher elaborations and semantics.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Really? From what i undestand they both agree on what Enlightenment is. The rest are just futher elaborations and semantics.
You know how primate males are like...

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
I am only saying that mind states you get are the result of practices you do
Agree, i also have thinking everything you said about internal experience, spekticism and enlightenment-mental disorder similarities. Interesting stuff.
Wasn't it Buddha himself who said that reality being some kind of solid thing or whatever is some fancy-schmancy illusion?
I dont fully get what are you trying to point here. I mean, it seems pretty clear that Indians back then really believe that you  should spend an infinite amount of time perfecting yourself and evolving in this dream, maya, ilussion (whatever you call it) in order to reach Buddhahood, it is not a metaphor at all. Of course you can be skeptict about this stuff, in the same way you can be skeptic about Vajrayana claims of Buddhahood in one lifetime etc.. In the end it is just faith. Peace!
.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 644 Join Date: 4/24/13
Ni Nurta:
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
Really? From what i undestand they both agree on what Enlightenment is. The rest are just futher elaborations and semantics.
You know how primate males are like...

Definitely not just males who have power, control, and status issues around this stuff. Some of the worst offenders have been female.

They agree on some stuff and disagree on other stuff, but the point is they don't share the same view of the stages of enlightenment, don't use labels the same way, and so you can't directly compare.

Specifically, "4th path" is a specific term Daniel uses with a very high, specific standard, namely no sense of self, do-er, agent, controller, duality, or free will appearing, even for an instant.

Kenneth and his students have different views and use the term in a more general way that doesn't line up with Daniel's very specific usage.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
Just reading your replies here. Yet to decide if it's worth clicking on that link ... might pop some popcorn tomorrow evening and give it a spin.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
I dont fully get what are you trying to point here

At some point in the path you are supposed to know what it means, I suppose.
I got enlightened while reading these words from Diamond sutta and contemplating their meaning in framework of existence of experience being only valid assumption I can really make about reality.

I mean, it seems pretty clear that Indians back then really believe that you should spend an infinite amount of time perfecting yourself and evolving in this dream, maya, ilussion (whatever you call it) in order to reach Buddhahood, it is not a metaphor at all. Of course you can be skeptict about this stuff, in the same way you can be skeptic about Vajrayana claims of Buddhahood in one lifetime etc.. In the end it is just faith. Peace!.

Sure you can do it in one life time.
Knowledge can shared and things can be worked togeter on.
Topic of enlightenment is not rocket science, you can ask anyone about how they do and maybe someone already did it. Universe is big place you know, full of beings like yourself. Even your body is full of being like yourself.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
J C:
Definitely not just males who have power, control, and status issues around this stuff. Some of the worst offenders have been female.

They agree on some stuff and disagree on other stuff, but the point is they don't share the same view of the stages of enlightenment, don't use labels the same way, and so you can't directly compare.

Specifically, "4th path" is a specific term Daniel uses with a very high, specific standard, namely no sense of self, do-er, agent, controller, duality, or free will appearing, even for an instant.

Kenneth and his students have different views and use the term in a more general way that doesn't line up with Daniel's very specific usage.

That was also my impression.
If I remember(/got it correctly) their models were more similar but over diverged over time. Kenneth invented " The Three Speed Transmission " and Daniel stays firmly by what he meant in MCTB.

I am more familiar with Daniel's take on it. I consider him "extreme" case from the image I posted earlier but perhaps because of that he is a good teacher. Like reference or lantern that is guiding sailors and whether they end up at the same bay or not doesn't really matter. What is important is having someone who got through with it this way and made it work so there is less fear to go there yourself.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
At some point in the path you are supposed to know what it means
I would have prefer if you try explain to me your point instead of just remind me im still a noob =( jejeje

Topic of enlightenment is not rocket science
Well it clearly is , we have many different traditions describing enlightenment in different ways, giving it different attributes (omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, others just attribute it to liberation, the dissolution of self etc...) and the many masters also differ in how long it will take. So i would say it is the contrary, tis very  difficult to deffine that what true enlightenment is, and we all are just making assumptions.
.Well my definition of true enlightenment goes in line with the orthodox Mahayana sutras, especially the Queen Srimala sutra and the Ghandavyuha sutra. I don´t think any human has achieved that, and i certainly won´t believe it if someone tell me he did. My thinking in this regard agrees with Kenneth Folk`s. "There are no human saints"...

Btw very interesting discussion. Thank you.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 36 Join Date: 9/27/19
Very cool!

I used to watch Frank like five or six years ago, and he actually was part of my inspiration in going after this whole meditative endeavour. I hadn't thought about him in ages, but it's very cool to hear he's gotten to the end. Everything he said in the video lines up pretty well with what I've heard from other likely 4th Path practitioners, and makes sense to me from where I'm sitting (although I don't think I've quite cracked the final code myself).

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 3254 Join Date: 4/20/09
Watching that video is certainly entertaining. I have a real interest in video production these days, and I learn a lot when I watch someone who has clearly been doing it a while like him.

His descriptions are also very interesting. If they hold up, and if he truly is experiencing what he says, that is pretty darn cool. Hopefully, time and honesty will help sort it all out. Yes, two weeks isn't long at all in this business. May all of that go well.

It is so interesting how small the world is, and how we have no idea where our words will go and who they will influence. May our words help many.

I truly miss the style of food he was eating: may have to make some here.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Papa Che Dusko:
Just reading your replies here. Yet to decide if it's worth clicking on that link ... might pop some popcorn tomorrow evening and give it a spin.

This needs beer, mate. Meet me in the Bar of Last Resort and we can watch it together. It is definitely worth clicking on that link, since you find me amusing occasionally. This guy is Amusing Plus Non-fucking-Stop.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
"I truly miss the style of food he was eating: may have to make some here."

I haven't seen the video yet but find it funny you mention food as I've had a dream last night were you, Kenneth Folk and I were eating Pizzas together in some place with cream colored interior. Kenneth wasn't happy with the fact that you paid for the pizzas and I felt guilty for being broke and couldn't afford it.

No beer for me Tim! I'm only on coffee and black tea.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 996 Join Date: 7/13/17
As I watched him eat, I couldn't help but think of the limitations of the ten fetter model.

His monologue was so propulsive and so consistent it's pretty hard to imagine he is faking it.  Most of what he said seemed bang on bar a couple of really tiny things (as Ni Nurta pointed out). But is pretty hard to distinguish between differences in experiences, differences in descriptive langauge, and differences in current absoprtions or other states, so I'm inclined to say ... woo hoo!

Also a very nice example of review phase, albeit an ADHD review phase.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Daniel M. Ingram:
Watching that video is certainly entertaining. I have a real interest in video production these days, and I learn a lot when I watch someone who has clearly been doing it a while like him.

His descriptions are also very interesting. If they hold up, and if he truly is experiencing what he says, that is pretty darn cool. Hopefully, time and honesty will help sort it all out. Yes, two weeks isn't long at all in this business. May all of that go well.

It is so interesting how small the world is, and how we have no idea where our words will go and who they will influence. May our words help many.

I truly miss the style of food he was eating: may have to make some here.

lol. again: "everybody at the core, is a fully enlightened (chomp comp) buddha. that's you, me, whatever. everybody. even this." (by which i think he meant his food, but i was tripping, by then)

May our words help many sentient beings, and even, apparently, certain kinds of food, to buddhahood.

love, tim

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Kenneth has a very different model of the paths than Daniel - he defines "4th path" very differently, so they're not necessarily at the same place on the path just because they use the same label. I don't believe Kenneth claims to be 4th path as described by Daniel.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 671 Join Date: 3/24/10
I love this. Good inspiration.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11

Steph, we owe An Eternal Now for this gift.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 671 Join Date: 3/24/10
Soh - If I ever meet you in person, I'll buy you as many beers (or beverage of your choice) as you want.

I suppose the same goes for Frank. Or anyone who has got it done. There. All Arahants get free beers from me.

In the meantime, the best gift to everybody is becoming an Arahant oneself.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Steph S:
Soh - If I ever meet you in person, I'll buy you as many beers (or beverage of your choice) as you want.

I suppose the same goes for Frank. Or anyone who has got it done. There. All Arahants get free beers from me.

In the meantime, the best gift to everybody is becoming an Arahant oneself.
lol, Steph, I love you, but i doubt you can afford as many beers as i want. But I'll help you buy all Arahants a drink, count me in on that project for sure. And let's end by a round for the house, when all sentient beings and certain kinds of food (if i am reading Frank's enigmatic between-chomps wisdom right) are home in their buddha nature.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1347 Join Date: 5/4/20
Steph S:
Soh - If I ever meet you in person, I'll buy you as many beers (or beverage of your choice) as you want.

I suppose the same goes for Frank. Or anyone who has got it done. There. All Arahants get free beers from me.

In the meantime, the best gift to everybody is becoming an Arahant oneself.
>In the meantime, the best gift to everybody is becoming an Arahant oneself.
How true!

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 671 Join Date: 3/24/10
Ha. Sorry I forgot that not everyone knows AEN's name is Soh. It's not a secret that I'm letting out because whenever he posts his convos with Thusness on DhO he leaves his own name, Soh, in the transcription. So I was addressing that to Soh.

I guess I'm off the hook for buying Tim drinks. LOL. Kidding. I'll have beers with you too.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this too much. So let's all just become Arahants, mmkay.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Steph S:
Ha. Sorry I forgot that not everyone knows AEN's name is Soh. It's not a secret that I'm letting out because whenever he posts his convos with Thusness on DhO he leaves his own name, Soh, in the transcription. So I was addressing that to Soh.

I guess I'm off the hook for buying Tim drinks. LOL. Kidding. I'll have beers with you too.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this too much. So let's all just become Arahants, mmkay.

lol, i thought it meant Silly Over-indulgence of Hilarity, and ended up with the bar tab! Poetic justice. what a narcissist i am, it's all about me.

Thank you, Soh, indeed. Your drink with Steph is on me.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
Boy oh boy this Frank reeks of enlightenment!
Would be nice to hear him talk in a few months or so when he calms the fluf down a bit. And he munches alot! As Im not "awakened" I can not sense those munches as "enlightened buddhas" but as VERY ANNOYING!

All in all most stuff he said makes sense to me and I have no doubt in his awakening bling. But you would have to chain me and drag me to him to be my teacher like no thank you (unless he calms the fluf down).

I can see why Tim likes him! Birds of feather stick together I think this lad would be able to talk over you no probs you would have no chance to open your mouth mate LOL maybe this your teacher Tim

just kidding (yes, Im being nice)

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Papa Che Dusko:
Boy oh boy this Frank reeks of enlightenment!
Would be nice to hear him talk in a few months or so when he calms the fluf down a bit. And he munches alot! As Im not "awakened" I can not sense those munches as "enlightened buddhas" but as VERY ANNOYING!

All in all most stuff he said makes sense to me and I have no doubt in his awakening bling. But you would have to chain me and drag me to him to be my teacher like no thank you (unless he calms the fluf down).

I can see why Tim likes him! Birds of feather stick together I think this lad would be able to talk over you no probs you would have no chance to open your mouth mate LOL maybe this your teacher Tim

just kidding (yes, Im being nice)

lol, around this guy, i could finally relax, lol. no NEED to say the crazy shit, he al;ready said it and then some five minutes ago! Job done! bring out the cold ones!

you, being nice?

love the fookin song, by the way. has the songwriters' union rep contacted your people yet, about the fees?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 201 Join Date: 3/16/18
A few thoughts after watching the video linked and a few other of Frank Yang’s videos.

Something definitely happened to him, clearly. Interesting to note the pronounced change in facial expressions, eyes, posture and movement in his more recent post-4th videos versus earlier videos. One thing that gives me pause is that much of the language he uses to describe his experience is very similar to what I’ve read in MTCB2 and makes me wonder how much of this is just a result of scripting, either deliberate or unconscious, or a mix of the two.

Wondering if people with more “psychopathic” character structures (in the Reichian sense) might have an easier time at certain parts of the awakening process as they might not be as hindered by the cognitive dissonance of conflicting value/moral systems.

Really interesting to see Daniel's language and models leaking out into the world through more conventional channels like Instagram/YouTube influencers. A part of me wonders whether this could be a precursor to what we will see more frequently in regards to how awakening practices are deciminated to the world in the next few years. Watching Frank Yang’s videos I can’t help but wonder whether Drukpa Kunley would have been a kind of hyper-sexual, unhinged Instgram influencer if he was around today.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Zachary:
A few thoughts after watching the video linked and a few other of Frank Yang’s videos.

Something definitely happened to him, clearly. Interesting to note the pronounced change in facial expressions, eyes, posture and movement in his more recent post-4th videos versus earlier videos. One thing that gives me pause is that much of the language he uses to describe his experience is very similar to what I’ve read in MTCB2 and makes me wonder how much of this is just a result of scripting, either deliberate or unconscious, or a mix of the two.

it is very clear that he uses Daniel's MCBT2 maps. Scripting that viscerally evident and spontaneous is, i believe, called learning, or even mastery. Don't be a fucking snot ball here. This guy's riff's could post on DhO and nobody would blink an eye. He does nothingness and dark night just fine, too. We all have to use words eventually, if we want to be you tube stars.

Wondering if people with more “psychopathic” character structures (in the Reichian sense) might have an easier time at certain parts of the awakening process as they might not be as hindered by the cognitive dissonance of conflicting value/moral systems.
This guy is far from "psychopathic" in the sense in which "psychopath" has come to be commonly used: suffering from or constituting a chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior, with emphasis on the violent, almost always. He is psychotic, without a trace of violence in his neuro-atypicality. He's a fucking nut job, to put it in more technical terms. As a fucking nut job, out on the streets today only because the judge remains convinced i am not a danger to myself or others, i know whereof i speak here. Frank's not a danger to himself or others, by any indication.

Really interesting to see Daniel's language and models leaking out into the world through more conventional channels like Instagram/YouTube influencers. A part of me wonders whether this could be a precursor to what we will see more frequently in regards to how awakening practices are decimated to the world in the next few years. Watching Frank Yang’s videos I can’t help but wonder whether Drukpa Kunley would have been a kind of hyper-sexual, unhinged Instgram influencer if he was around today.

Drukpa Kunley (1455–1529), also known as Kunga Legpai ZangpoDrukpa Kunleg (Tibetanའབྲུག་པ་ཀུན་ལེགས་Wyliebrug pa kun legs), and Kunga Legpa, the Madman of the Dragon Lineage (Tibetanའབྲུག་སྨྱོན་ཀུན་དགའ་ལེགས་པ་Wylie: brug smyon kun dga' legs pa), was a Buddhist monk and missionary in the Tibetan Mahamudra tradition, as well as a famous poet, and is often counted among the Nyönpa ("mad ones").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drukpa_Kunley

love, tim, aka the madman of the john of the cross lineage, counted at times among the Nyoenpa

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 25 Join Date: 1/10/18
Frank's video is brilliant, clever and hilarious!

It seems to have been a little lost here that frank is taking the Mickey out of the whole Doh movement. This is satire! I've shown it to a few Dhamma friends and everyone has immediately said (as we say in Australia - "he's taking the piss!"

I dont doubt he's been following the DoH and is a meditator (maybe he has attainments who knows) but this is intended as entertainment folks!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 201 Join Date: 3/16/18
it is very clear that he uses Daniel's MCBT2 maps. Scripting that viscerally evident and spontaneous is, i believe, called learning, or even mastery. Don't be a fucking snot ball here. This guy's riff's could post on DhO and nobody would blink an eye. He does nothingness and dark night just fine, too. We all have to use words eventually, if we want to be you tube stars.

I hope for everyone's sake that he did it, I found it entertaining and inspiring to watch because as you mention his speech and body were totally electric and uninhibited throughout. As others have mentioned here, it sure looks like the real thing, and I'm inclined towards that view as well. In the interest of healthy skepticism though, the familiar languaging does give me pause.

This guy is far from "psychopathic" in the sense in which "psychopath" has come to be commonly used: suffering from or constituting a chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior, with emphasis on the violent, almost always. He is psychotic, without a trace of violence in his neuro-atypicality. He's a fucking nut job, to put it in more technical terms. As a fucking nut job, out on the streets today only because the judge remains convinced i am not a danger to myself or others, i know whereof i speak here. Frank's not a danger to himself or others, by any indication.

Correct, that is why I mentioned I was using the Psychopathic/Narcissistic/Challenger character structure in Wilhelm Reich's model rather than the more colloquial meaning. Probably should have made that more clear. Reading Reich's work, it's interesting to investigate how different personality types excel at certain axes of development in the awakening process and while being greatly hindered in others, this is more towards what I was attempting to describe.

Yours in snot,
Zachary

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 3254 Join Date: 4/20/09
@U Ba Fin: Yes, definitely entertaining at least. On the DhO, that sort of gray zone is common, so many of us just roll with it at this point, often hard to tell crazy from serious from humor until more time has passed, and there very well may be a complex mix of those here. Wait and see. At the very least, I enjoyed the video.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Lol, poor Frank... Some people think he is mocking us just because he is weird AF

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 614 Join Date: 5/20/18
I believe he is genuine.

Maybe I could fake it. But 2 years ago, I wouldn't have understood most of what he is saying. And he does seem to understand. So, he's at least at my level.

Come on, people, let's wake up. I found this video inspiring. Doesn't even matter if it's real or not.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Zachary:
it is very clear that he uses Daniel's MCBT2 maps. Scripting that viscerally evident and spontaneous is, i believe, called learning, or even mastery. Don't be a fucking snot ball here. This guy's riff's could post on DhO and nobody would blink an eye. He does nothingness and dark night just fine, too. We all have to use words eventually, if we want to be you tube stars.

I hope for everyone's sake that he did it, I found it entertaining and inspiring to watch because as you mention his speech and body were totally electric and uninhibited throughout. As others have mentioned here, it sure looks like the real thing, and I'm inclined towards that view as well. In the interest of healthy skepticism though, the familiar languaging does give me pause.

This guy is far from "psychopathic" in the sense in which "psychopath" has come to be commonly used: suffering from or constituting a chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior, with emphasis on the violent, almost always. He is psychotic, without a trace of violence in his neuro-atypicality. He's a fucking nut job, to put it in more technical terms. As a fucking nut job, out on the streets today only because the judge remains convinced i am not a danger to myself or others, i know whereof i speak here. Frank's not a danger to himself or others, by any indication.

Correct, that is why I mentioned I was using the Psychopathic/Narcissistic/Challenger character structure in Wilhelm Reich's model rather than the more colloquial meaning. Probably should have made that more clear. Reading Reich's work, it's interesting to investigate how different personality types excel at certain axes of development in the awakening process and while being greatly hindered in others, this is more towards what I was attempting to describe.

Yours in snot,
Zachary

lol, Zachary, you're great. Thanks for your humor. I went with common usage on "psychotic vs. Psychopathic" since you failed to fucking mention you were using an 80-year-old vocabulary and a true eccentric genius's system as your intellectual starting point, you maverick psychoanalytical psychotic snot.

snottily yours,

Tim

edit, p.s.: Okay, granted, you said "in the Reichian" sense, on Psychopathic. That is both marvelously dry and thoughtful, as references go. Unfortunately, in this context, your use of the word did require more clarification, in my view, to avoid implying Frank is a serial killer. Who the fuck has read Reich, in this day and age? I am an Otto Rank guy, myself. Ernest Becker in The Denial of Death ranks Rank among the frankest great ones, despite the rank odor of eccentricity that follows him to this day. Reich was all about sex in a box, way ahead of Justin Timberlake and Andy Samberg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt0spqQtMKg

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
U Ba Fin:
Frank's video is brilliant, clever and hilarious!

It seems to have been a little lost here that frank is taking the Mickey out of the whole Doh movement. This is satire! I've shown it to a few Dhamma friends and everyone has immediately said (as we say in Australia - "he's taking the piss!"

I dont doubt he's been following the DoH and is a meditator (maybe he has attainments who knows) but this is intended as entertainment folks!
Satire is a very high form of art, and of showing investment in a culture. If this is a satire, it is brilliantly accomplishing satire's main purpose, to get a social group to examine its own often invisible assumptions and ways when lit from a striking and alien angle. At least he didn't say we eat babies. (But the Irish thing was a satire on English things. Nobody really got Swift.)

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
Frank Yang has been making meditation videos for years now. One of his goals is to make people more interested in meditation and awakening. He also seems to have a very deep respect for Daniel Ingram and he recommends his book in lot of his videos. I think is pretty safe to say that it is not satire, in the worst of cases he isn´t 4th path, he just think he is.... Anyway, props to the mad brah.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 25 Join Date: 1/10/18
I agree Tim. It's clever on all levels! And humour can be incredibly important on a path beset with Dukkah Nanas and meditators getting atttached to ideas or taking their work too seriously.

And I wouldn't be surprised that Frank is quite genuine about inspiring people to practise for liberation and he may well have genuine insights to be able to articulate these concepts with clarity.

I think he's a very bright guy making clever and funny videos with good intentions. And if poking fun at DoH is part of that he's done it exceptionally well! : )

All that said everyone has a distinct perceptial experience and I don't claim monopoly on the truth - so take all this however best suits or inspires you!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
So Frank is a buddhist Heyoka if that the case I love it! Any way, I do like what he sais about attainments and if it matters whether people believe you or not. Its all THIS anyway and no one can really get into your mind to check. Attainment or not it will never change the fact of THIS. THIS is until its NOT, all the rest are just notes flying off of my fretbaord in hope to make sense.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
It's interesting that Frank Yang isn't well-received with the redditors. Probably the mushroom culture.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
So Frank is a buddhist Heyoka...

Lakota!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Chris Marti:
So Frank is a buddhist Heyoka...

Lakota!
The heyoka (heyókȟa, also spelled "haokah," "heyokha") is a kind of sacred clown in the culture of the Lakota people of the Great Plains of North America. The heyoka is a contrarian, jester, and satirist, who speaks, moves and reacts in an opposite fashion to the people around them. Only those having visions of the thunder beings of the west, the Wakíŋyaŋ, and who are recognized as such by the community, can take on the ceremonial role of the heyoka.The Lakota medicine man, Black Elk, described himself as a heyoka, saying he had been visited as a child by the thunder beings.

Esoteric enigmatic elite mother[concluding compound deleted per DhO forum rules]s.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
My daughter has done social work at the Pine Ridge Lakota Sioux reservation in South Dakota. Our dog was adopted from there, brought back after one of her trips a few years ago. There were four puppies in a stray litter and she and her work buddies adopted them all.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Chris Marti:
My daughter has done social work at the Pine Ridge Lakota Sioux reservation in South Dakota. Our dog was adopted from there, brought back after one of her trips a few years ago. There were four puppies in a stray litter and she and her work buddies adopted them all.

lol, humbled as always. You've earned knowing casually what a heyoka is. Bless your daughter, she sounds very cool. Your wife must be VERY cool. I will say no more.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2 Join Date: 6/20/19
I discovered Frank years ago. He was such a cool guy to me. So out of the box. I think his goal is to make you think that he is crazy. I think he is a genius and I really do belive in his attainments. I could see why people would think that he is crazy but I thought that more open minded people would see a genius in him. Kinda dissapointed.

He is a great artist if not anything else. Kinda stupid to judge people on a spiritual site thoug.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 614 Join Date: 5/20/18
An Eternal Now:
It's interesting that Frank Yang isn't well-received with the redditors. Probably the mushroom culture.

I got into a tense conversation on Facebook the other day with a local mushroom teacher after I claimed to be enlightened (tense for her and for onlookers I'm sure, purifying for me and for the matrix at large). The amount of projection was truly surprising to me. I don't mean to be condescending here, but it was just quite an education for me. Unfortunately, she has since deleted her comments

Thanks for the link. It confirms my suspicions.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 201 Join Date: 3/16/18
I watched this older Frank Yang video yesterday and definitely see the "Heyoka" archetype. At the end he gives a deadpan facetious apology, "If I offended any buddhas, monks or nuns, I am sorry for sending you over the edge of your consciousness."

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 71 Join Date: 7/6/17
Just curious,  but why do you think r/streamentry has a mushroom culture?

I frequent there because there are serious practitioners in the group willing to do pragmatic practices and not drink deeply of the mainstream buddhist coolaide.  Attainments are freely discussed and people feel like it is possible to " get it done ".

Perhaps, there is a spectrum of mushroomness.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
The amount of skepticism (which I distinguish from understandable, healthy dose of skepticism) to the point of treating the video as just a joke, as if it is impossible to actually attain it, and then you have posters like yogat3ch who basically said nobody should proclaim attainments.. if that isn't mushroom culture I'm not sure what is

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 638 Join Date: 9/15/09
That being said I merely commented based on that thread, because I never really followed other threads in r/streamentry

My own group and blog keeps me busy enough so I seldom participate elsewhere

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
One thing we all can learn from good old a Frank here is to have more fun while threading this path I'm off to create a you tube channel! Gawd damn it! Let's have fun! Who said we have to dark night the entire journey! Life still goes on!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 12 Join Date: 5/29/20
Loved this. I have had glimpses of everything he is talking about, coming from a deep dark mental reorganization after a breakdown my entire life in the making, and then rigorously undergoing psychotherapy and carefully watching the dynamics of transference and self-other as the mind shifts to reorient itself from its shattered pieces.

And also during psychedelic sessions during this tender time, observing the self-other split merging, shattering, looping through itself over and over infinitely, and so on and so on.

This stuff is what got me to eventually find meditation and MCTB, and it's something I am determined to understand on a fundamental level and to keep with me permanently. Inspiring stuff, thanks for posting!!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 671 Join Date: 3/24/10
I like what he says in this video about thoughts free-floating like the sky, not a problem. I think alot of people are obsessed with turning thoughts into a problem in practice. For me, personally, I have used thoughts in really interesting ways in practice to get insight into how they work. It's not a problem when thoughts come up in practice and you don't need to attempt to shut them down and have some thought-free space. I personally, often times, have let them rip and roar - specifically so I could take a closer look at them - feel their texture, see how they come up, see what other sensations happen before/after as a result, etc. Pick apart the concept that they're located in a specific place (pick apart and investigatewht makes the mind seem like it is a place, what makes it seem like thoughts are happening in a place). See how much of what gets misperceived is itself a simple thought. Very useful.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
Shouldn't you be just "chilling out"? just kidding! Your input is greatly appreciated!

Im now discovering some fun "movement" in image space, like an idea that is moving away from the cushion when restlessness caused by body numbness arises. It's as if has the force to actually move the actual body But it didn't as I've seen it and then I just laughed

So, even restlessness or non-clarity is interesting to investigate just like thoughts.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 795 Join Date: 4/27/19
An Eternal Now:
The amount of skepticism (which I distinguish from understandable, healthy dose of skepticism) to the point of treating the video as just a joke, as if it is impossible to actually attain it, and then you have posters like yogat3ch who basically said nobody should proclaim attainments.. if that isn't mushroom culture I'm not sure what is

These videos do not strike my as satire in the least. Those reddit people should indeed read about Drukpa Kunley and many other crazy enlightened people ...
What frank says sounds, or better yet, him and his words feel genuine to me.
Calling this satire, when all I'm perceiving in that direction, despite a bit of derision, sure, is a certain kind of cheesiness and extreme sincerety - why, that strikes my as disrespectful, and ignorant, actually. Do these people have any idea what actual relization is like ?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Olivier:
An Eternal Now:
The amount of skepticism (which I distinguish from understandable, healthy dose of skepticism) to the point of treating the video as just a joke, as if it is impossible to actually attain it, and then you have posters like yogat3ch who basically said nobody should proclaim attainments.. if that isn't mushroom culture I'm not sure what is

These videos do not strike my as satire in the least. Those reddit people should indeed read about Drukpa Kunley and many other crazy enlightened people ...
What frank says sounds, or better yet, him and his words feel genuine to me.
Calling this satire, when all I'm perceiving in that direction, despite a bit of derision, sure, is a certain kind of cheesiness and extreme sincerety - why, that strikes my as disrespectful, and ignorant, actually. Do these people have any idea what actual relization is like ?
Satire may be as realized as anything. This is not parody. Frank believes, he has Realized His Shit. He may go lightly where many are elephant-footed, but there's nothing wrong with that. Why does something have to be ONE DAMN THING? Satire, playful celebration, joie de Awakening, truth-telling solid and real---- don't let people chop the shit up into minced bullshit cubes and pick them out one by one. This fucker Frank is the real fucking deal. Mince that, motherfuckers.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20
I mean have I attained 4 internal hemorrhoids? Have I? I claim I have! There is only one way disbelievers can check this to be true

p.s. sorry I'm just being silly tonight and a bit hyped. Maybe 2nd A&P is onto me or somtn' (I hope these smilies don't get banned one day)

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Frank believes, he has Realized His Shit. He may go lightly where many are elephant-footed, but there's nothing wrong with that. Why does something have to be ONE DAMN THING? Satire, playful celebration, joie de Awakening, truth-telling solid and real---- don't let people chop the shit up into minced bullshit cubes and pick them out one by one.

I totally agree. Life-changing events don't come along often, and we should allow the good ones to be celebrated.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 644 Join Date: 4/24/13
Chris Marti:
Kenneth has a very different model of the paths than Daniel - he defines "4th path" very differently, so they're not necessarily at the same place on the path just because they use the same label. I don't believe Kenneth claims to be 4th path as described by Daniel.

Ok, here's Kenneth's 7-stage model:

"1) A&P
2) 1st Path by the technical model
3) 2nd Path by the TM
4) 3rd Path by the TM
5) 4th Path by the TM
6) Emotional transformation
7) End of self-contraction"

"The emotional transformation means that you no longer glom together a specific set of mental and physical phenomena, invest it with self and call it an emotion. The information still comes in the form of raw materials (5 physical senses and mental impressions) but is no longer mistaken for a 'thing' called my emotion."

"The end of self-contraction is similar, but more subtle: the group of phenomena that was previously seen as the 'I' is no longer recognized as 'I'. There is only object."

Source: http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archive-wetpaint/12603-a-seven-stage-model-of-enlightenment-new-video

Analysis: so Kenneth states that after what he refers to as 4th path, there are two additional stages, the last of which involves seeing no-self. Under Daniel's model, this last stage is 4th path (see MCTB ). Clearly, Kenneth and Daniel define 4th path very differently.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
J C:
Chris Marti:
Kenneth has a very different model of the paths than Daniel - he defines "4th path" very differently, so they're not necessarily at the same place on the path just because they use the same label. I don't believe Kenneth claims to be 4th path as described by Daniel.

Ok, here's Kenneth's 7-stage model:

"1) A&P
2) 1st Path by the technical model
3) 2nd Path by the TM
4) 3rd Path by the TM
5) 4th Path by the TM
6) Emotional transformation
7) End of self-contraction"

"The emotional transformation means that you no longer glom together a specific set of mental and physical phenomena, invest it with self and call it an emotion. The information still comes in the form of raw materials (5 physical senses and mental impressions) but is no longer mistaken for a 'thing' called my emotion."

"The end of self-contraction is similar, but more subtle: the group of phenomena that was previously seen as the 'I' is no longer recognized as 'I'. There is only object."

Source: http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archive-wetpaint/12603-a-seven-stage-model-of-enlightenment-new-video

Analysis: so Kenneth states that after what he refers to as 4th path, there are two additional stages, the last of which involves seeing no-self. Under Daniel's model, this last stage is 4th path (see MCTB ). Clearly, Kenneth and Daniel define 4th path very differently.
Alright.  They both agree with the end point? So i don´t understand you argument at all. They are both 4th path by MCTB standards.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Clearly, Kenneth and Daniel define 4th path very differently.

This really depends on which version of Kenneth Folk's dharma you're referring to. He's been through more evolutions in his models than I can count. Keep in mind, Kenneth's "thing" was often meant just to distinguish himself from Daniel Ingram, not to fundamentally disagree. There was an extended period of time during which there was a lot of jealousy and infighting between the two of them and so... yeah.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 201 Join Date: 3/16/18
Ok, I've watched more Frank Yang videos and I think he's the real deal. It took me a little while to get used to his off-kilter craziness, but his videos on meditation are very inspiring in their own way. I hereby selectively rollback most of what I said earlier in the thread.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 644 Join Date: 4/24/13
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
J C:
Chris Marti:
Kenneth has a very different model of the paths than Daniel - he defines "4th path" very differently, so they're not necessarily at the same place on the path just because they use the same label. I don't believe Kenneth claims to be 4th path as described by Daniel.

Ok, here's Kenneth's 7-stage model:

"1) A&P
2) 1st Path by the technical model
3) 2nd Path by the TM
4) 3rd Path by the TM
5) 4th Path by the TM
6) Emotional transformation
7) End of self-contraction"

"The emotional transformation means that you no longer glom together a specific set of mental and physical phenomena, invest it with self and call it an emotion. The information still comes in the form of raw materials (5 physical senses and mental impressions) but is no longer mistaken for a 'thing' called my emotion."

"The end of self-contraction is similar, but more subtle: the group of phenomena that was previously seen as the 'I' is no longer recognized as 'I'. There is only object."

Source: http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archive-wetpaint/12603-a-seven-stage-model-of-enlightenment-new-video

Analysis: so Kenneth states that after what he refers to as 4th path, there are two additional stages, the last of which involves seeing no-self. Under Daniel's model, this last stage is 4th path (see MCTB ). Clearly, Kenneth and Daniel define 4th path very differently.
Alright.  They both agree with the end point? So i don´t understand you argument at all. They are both 4th path by MCTB standards.

This is a very touchy and sensitive issue. As Chris points out, there were a lot of bad feelings between the two for a long time.

The claim that Kenneth is "4th path by MCTB standards" is therefore very controversial and disputed, to say the least, and I am not aware of any statement by Kenneth to that effect.

They each have their own models which may not be directly comparable. Kenneth claims 4th path in his model, which corresponds to Stage 5 in his 7-stage map; Daniel claims 4th path in his.

Looking at the last stage in Kenneth's 7-stage map, it seems very similar to Daniel's definition of 4th path in his model, which involves seeing no-self in all sensations. So maybe they do have the same, or similar, endpoints, though it is again difficult to compare directly.

Don't let the labels confuse you. Many, many people claim to be "4th path." It seems to mean something different to everyone, and sadly, no one seems to want to police the label and make statements challenging certain teachers' claims.

Especially for teachers who charge, which Kenneth and his students do, and Daniel and the Buddha believe is highly unethical to do, it is good marketing to bill yourself and your students as "4th path." Teachers who charge have consequently turned "4th path" into a marketing label with very little meaning, much like calling baby wipes "flushable."

I just know my own experience, which is that I claimed 4th path for years, was not sufficiently challenged by teachers whom I paid, and was finally given the excellent advice (by Daniel, on this message board) to not let the label of "4th path" prevent me from looking at the new layer that wants to be investigated.

He was far too polite and politic to say bluntly "JC, you ain't 4th path," which he should have, and which would have perhaps been the most ethical and helpful thing to do, but which might trigger stubborn pushback, who knows. Daniel doesn't ever seem to say that about anyone, sadly.

So I finally realized I was not 4th path, and after realizing this was finally able to get to what I now believe is 3rd path, though I could of course be wrong about this as well.

But, before I realized that, as a way of trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance of being "4th path" but knowing deep down I wasn't done, I created several different models of enlightenment including stages beyond 4th path.

Many of them looked like Kenneth's 7-stage model.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
You are a little behind in the timeline.

Kenneth Folk latter added a new stage in his model and he claimed that he was in that last stage.

"Stage 8:.... As of this writing (April, 2012), I also consider myself to be at this stage.)"

http://web.archive.org/web/20130116164653/http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/A+9+Stage+Map+of+Developmental+Enlightenment

However, he never used those models again... Anyways, i prefer to not make those kinds of moral judgements... From the perspective of many, Daniel is slandering the Dharma with his heretical views and using the "Arhat" title for marketing purposes. I personally don´t believe that, i also don´t think charging for meditation classes is bad at all. But criticism is inevitable when shifting paradigms...

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11

Especially for teachers who charge, which Kenneth and his students do, and Daniel and the Buddha believe is highly unethical to do, it is good marketing to bill yourself and your students as "4th path." Teachers who charge have consequently turned "4th path" into a marketing label with very little meaning, much like calling baby wipes "flushable."
I hate to suspect that this may actually be close to the root of some of these lofty disputes. It's a fucking copyright battle, patent pending, and everybody brings in the lawyers to argue this sutta's precedents or that ones. No one can corner the market, but the "new and improved model" will often have a nice run, until the new and more improved one comes along.

Somebody like Frank sort of points up the farce of that. Reminds us that fourth path is something lived with joy and abandon and heedless compassion.

love, tim

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 27 Join Date: 1/5/19
J C:
Especially for teachers who charge, which Kenneth and his students do, and Daniel and the Buddha believe is highly unethical to do, it is good marketing to bill yourself and your students as "4th path." Teachers who charge have consequently turned "4th path" into a marketing label with very little meaning, much like calling baby wipes "flushable."

I do not want to argue with you on that, as based on your story your experience with these teachers is high and in addition to that I really appreciated the honesty of your post! I just have one comment:

For the last year I have worked with 3 of Folk's students. Two of them teach based on dana. The third one not only didn't but also charged a lot and this is why after the introductory chat I decided to stop.

To sum up, the Folk's students I know, do not have the same policy/style/approach not only with regards to money but also with regards to what they actually teach!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
You are a little behind in the timeline.

Kenneth Folk latter added a new stage in his model and he claimed that he was in that last stage.

"Stage 8:.... As of this writing (April, 2012), I also consider myself to be at this stage.)"

http://web.archive.org/web/20130116164653/http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/A+9+Stage+Map+of+Developmental+Enlightenment

However, he never used those models again... Anyways, i prefer to not make those kinds of moral judgements... From the perspective of many, Daniel is slandering the Dharma with his heretical views and using the "Arhat" title for marketing purposes. I personally don´t believe that, i also don´t think charging for meditation classes is bad at all. But criticism is inevitable when shifting paradigms...

"Anyways, i prefer to not make those kinds of moral judgements..."

that's chickenshit. The Buddha on charging money for the Dharma is crystal clear, as was Jesus on charging for the Torah, or the Word of God. It's inconvenient, the house of modern cards trembles, but the morality is very clear.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
The claim that Kenneth is "4th path by MCTB standards" is therefore very controversial and disputed, to say the least, and I am not aware of any statement by Kenneth to that effect.

Just to be fair and accurate, Kenneth claims 4th path in the MCTB model. He's said so many times. In one of his very first posts on the original DhO he made that clear.

And again I feel the need to reiterate just how many models Kenneth Folk has proffered over the last fifteen years. It's a lot, and depending on what you want to assert about Kenneth Folk you can probably find support for your assertion in one of those many models. He has not done himself any favors in this regard.

And yes, to Tim Farrington, much of the model building was about marketing and distinguishing one teaching/teacher from others. And jealousy, as I have said in previous comments. Daniel Ingram took the time and the initiative to write MCTB and thereby became a prominent person in this dharma world. Kenneth can't finish anything he starts, so even years later, when finally started to write a book, he just dropped it later, like so many of his projects. So... Daniel gets the public kudos and Kenneth doesn't, even though they were and are friends, and share a dharma "tradition" in the pragmatic dharma community. Both of them are human beings, so you get what you get.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
The Buddha on charging money for the Dharma is crystal clear, as was Jesus on charging for the Torah, or the Word of God. It's inconvenient, the house of modern cards trembles, but the morality is very clear.

This issue tends to generate a lot of discussion, very heartfelt discussion, with strong feelings behind people's beliefs about it.

I have permission to teach (whatever that means) and I've actually tried teaching once or twice. I never charged anyone anything because it made me feel guilty to charge for my fledgling attempts at it. I don't teach because I'm probably not very good at it and because I don't have the time I feel is required. I don't think the morality issue in the modern world is as clear as some do, but then I'm not planning to be a professional dharma teacher who has to somehow make a living at the same time.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 110 Join Date: 9/12/18
I guess so... The thing is that i don´t consider the word of the historical Buddha to be the ultimate. It is my personal belief that he wasn´t some kind of "omnniscient" non being that trascended humans and Gods... In my view he was still a human, still subject to ignorance, and some of his views could reflect that, for example his views on women, which seems to be just the result of the historical context he was in. Of course im slandering the dharma when i say this. To be fair i don´t ever consider myself to be a Theravada Buddhist. Just my two cents.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 644 Join Date: 4/24/13
Jake Frankfurt Middenhall:
I guess so... The thing is that i don´t consider the word of the historical Buddha to be the ultimate. It is my personal belief that he wasn´t some kind of "omnniscient" non being that trascended humans and Gods... In my view he was still a human, still subject to ignorance, and some of his views could reflect that, for example his views on women, which seems to be just the result of the historical context he was in. Of course im slandering the dharma when i say this. To be fair i don´t ever consider myself to be a Theravada Buddhist. Just my two cents.

No, you're not slandering the dharma!

Dharma also means "truth." Truth is what matters here. I seek truth, whether it agrees with the suttas or not. We don't know what the Buddha's actual teachings were - the suttas were written over a period of hundreds of years. We don't even know that the Buddha really existed.

The truth can never be slander.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 113 Join Date: 12/28/17
An Eternal Now:
He posts meditation notes on his instagram being_frank_yang

Really good to watch. Thanks for sharing!

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Soft core por... er, dharma.

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11

bonus!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2752 Join Date: 2/26/19
Chris Marti:

I have permission to teach (whatever that means) and I've actually tried teaching once or twice. I never charged anyone anything because it made me feel guilty to charge for my fledgling attempts at it. I don't teach because I'm probably not very good at it and because I don't have the time I feel is required. I don't think the morality issue in the modern world is as clear as some do, but then I'm not planning to be a professional dharma teacher who has to somehow make a living at the same time.

I feel like you do a pretty good job guiding those of us who don't have teachers

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/12/20
Loved it! I am not really qualified to judge his attainments and not practicing mahasi vipasna but he feels genuine. This really motivated me to practice hard. Thanks AEN.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
n0nick:
Loved it! I am not really qualified to judge his attainments and not practicing mahasi vipasna but he feels genuine. This really motivated me to practice hard. Thanks AEN.

It's motivated a numer of people to practice hard. It's motivated me to stop this shit altogether, lol. Frank says it's just a waste of fucking time, as i read it.

or is that just me? lol. i'm a lazy bastard by nature, the way a scorpion has to sting.

love, tim

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 996 Join Date: 7/13/17
Tim Farrington:
n0nick:
Loved it! I am not really qualified to judge his attainments and not practicing mahasi vipasna but he feels genuine. This really motivated me to practice hard. Thanks AEN.

It's motivated a numer of people to practice hard. It's motivated me to stop this shit altogether, lol. Frank says it's just a waste of fucking time, as i read it.

or is that just me? lol. i'm a lazy bastard by nature, the way a scorpion has to sting.

love, tim

No, it's more like the perfect paragraph was there all along, but you just couldn't see it. Once you have seen it, you can't see it any other way.

How easy is it to attain the perfect paragraph my friend? Not easy at all.  But it can be done.

Malcolm

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
Not two, not one:
Tim Farrington:
n0nick:
Loved it! I am not really qualified to judge his attainments and not practicing mahasi vipasna but he feels genuine. This really motivated me to practice hard. Thanks AEN.

It's motivated a numer of people to practice hard. It's motivated me to stop this shit altogether, lol. Frank says it's just a waste of fucking time, as i read it.

or is that just me? lol. i'm a lazy bastard by nature, the way a scorpion has to sting.

love, tim

No, it's more like the perfect paragraph was there all along, but you just couldn't see it. Once you have seen it, you can't see it any other way.

How easy is it to attain the perfect paragraph my friend? Not easy at all.  But it can be done.

Malcolm

Malcolm, yes, it can be done. but I have found that the amount of time necessary to realize you wrote a perfect paragraph is on the scale of decades. They all feel perfect, when i write them, lol. Until they don't and then i try to write them better. It's never anything but apply, lather, rinse, repeat. Perfect paragraphs just go off and do their own fucking thing, and you almost never know. But the occasional postcard is truly lovely, and an occasion for gratitude sweeter than existence itself.

love, tim

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Sorry, but what is this "perfect" all about? Perfect strikes me as the ultimate unattainable ideal.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 51 Join Date: 7/17/19
Chris Marti:
Sorry, but what is this "perfect" all about? Perfect strikes me as the ultimate unattainable ideal.

This.
"Everything is already perfect" might be how it feels when you get there, but so far each step along the way has required decidedly less perfection (in effort, concentration, acceptance, etc) than I expected it would.

Also - interesting update from Frank:
https://youtu.be/BFebcvam2N0

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
I think there's more than one version of what "perfect" means. In a dharma sense saying "everything is perfect just as it is" is but one version. Another version that I thought was being bandied about here is a more western version, probably Greek or maybe Roman, that refers to the ideal, the penultimate, the ontologically perfect. That second version of the term is comparative. The first is a recognition of the status of "things" in the universe of our experience.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11
todust:
Chris Marti:
Sorry, but what is this "perfect" all about? Perfect strikes me as the ultimate unattainable ideal.

This.
"Everything is already perfect" might be how it feels when you get there, but so far each step along the way has required decidedly less perfection (in effort, concentration, acceptance, etc) than I expected it would.

Also - interesting update from Frank:
https://youtu.be/BFebcvam2N0

"Watching my mother choke on the shit-like vomited bile she'd just inhaled into her breathing passages with her last breath on earth, I thought, 'Well, thank God todust says everything is perfect, otherwise i might think this is actually unbearable.' "

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 996 Join Date: 7/13/17
Chris Marti:
Sorry, but what is this "perfect" all about? Perfect strikes me as the ultimate unattainable ideal.
Chris, examples of pefect paragraphs below.

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife."

"The year is 50 BC. Gaul is entirely occupied by the Romans. Well, not entirely ... One small village of indominitable Gauls still holds out against the invaders. And life is not easy for the Roman legionaries who garrison the fortified camps of Totorum, Aquarium, Laudanum and Compendium."

"Call me Ishmael.  Some years ago--never mind how long precisely--having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world.  It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation.  Whenever I find myself growing firm about the mouth ; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet ; and especially whenever my hypos get such and upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off--then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can.   This is my substitute for pistol and ball.  With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword ; I quietly take to the ship.  There is nothing surprising in this.  If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."

Malcolm

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 795 Join Date: 4/27/19
Not two, not one :
"The year is 50 BC. Gaul is entirely occupied by the Romans. Well, not entirely ... One small village of indominitable Gauls still holds out against the invaders. And life is not easy for the Roman legionaries who garrison the fortified camps of Totorum, Aquarium, Laudanum and Compendium."

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Here's my version of a perfect sentence:

"                                                                "

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1628 Join Date: 5/5/19
Chris Marti:
Here's my version of a perfect sentence:

"                                                                "

You need to trim your sentence! Lots of unnecessary spaces! ;)

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Exactly!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11

what the fuck is going on here? Who are you people?

Seriously, what the fuck are we talking about? This is nuts.
Sorry, but what is this "perfect" all about? Perfect strikes me as the ultimate unattainable ideal.
it's a red fucking herring, Marti. it's a red fucking herring, Olivier, Malcolm. Siavash, save yourself, these guys are shit-faced.

\it's a red herring, and we've swum way the fuck up shit creek here chasing it.

jeezus fooking kryst.

love, tim

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1628 Join Date: 5/5/19
))))))))))))))))))))

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 9 Join Date: 6/16/20
An Eternal Now:
Someone posted this on my group and I thought it is good to share this here. His practice background includes the mahasi path and fruitions, 8 jhanas, as well as what I call I Am and one mind. He just attained MCTB 4th path from the looks of it, two weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/ZGN9nCJ33Tk

I don't find that I can be overly serious about anything, and there's probably even less reason to do so once enlightened. Coming from the far outside, my instinct is that he is sincere, whether or not he is correct.

This was a joy to watch. Thank you for sharing!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 795 Join Date: 4/27/19
Frank Yang has been making meditation videos for years now. One of his goals is to make people more interested in meditation and awakening. He also seems to have a very deep respect for Daniel Ingram and he recommends his book in lot of his videos. I think is pretty safe to say that it is not satire, in the worst of cases he isn´t 4th path, he just think he is.... Anyway, props to the mad brah.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 795 Join Date: 4/27/19

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 104 Join Date: 2/15/19
I just published a full interview with Frank in which he discusses his practice in detail.

Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/ep60-frank-yang-full-natty-arhat/

Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Stitcher – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 104 Join Date: 2/15/19
Here are the show notes:

In this episode I am joined by Taiwanese Youtube Fitness star Frank Yang who, on May 25th 2020, declared himself to be an arhat - the highest level of enlightenment in Theravada Buddhism.

Frank discusses his intense spiritual quest, from his early days as a bodybuilder struggling with sex addiction, to a multi-year deep dive into Buddhist meditation practice.

We learn about Frank’s initial awakenings, kundalini phenomena, encounters with entities, and journeys to astral dimensions.

Frank lifts the lid on his successful Youtube channel of over 160k subscribers, and shares his personal advice for all those who seek enlightenment.

Topics Include

0:00 - Intro
0:46 - The collective dark night of the pandemic
1:46 - Bodybuilding, sex addiction, and beginning meditation
8:33 - Plato and the link between physical training and meditation
10:48 - Frank’s relationship to his body
12:25 - Sex and philosophy
14:33 - Discovering Daniel Ingram and experiencing the Arising and Passing
16:54 - Frank’s first dark night
19:40 - Psychedelic explorations
23:54 - Stream entry on second Goenka retreat
31:18 - Frank’s meditation influences
32:07 - Kundalini awakening
37:16 - The affects of Frank’s Kundalini awakening
38:17 - Attaining 3rd path
41:16 - Attaining 4th path
51:14 - Controversy around attainments
52:38 - The effects of enlightenment on Frank’s sex addiction
57:34 - Stream entry to arhat in 1 year
58:42 - Out of body experiences and astral realms
1:01:06 - Frank’s encounters with negative entities
1:04:01 - Sensing energies in people and places
1:05:38 - Changes to personal relationships after awakening
1:08:10 - Why Frank is sometimes lonely
1:08:36 - Frank’s bi-polar diagnosis and his meditation path
1:11:15 - Frank’s Youtube channel and his creative vision
1:19:06 - Advice to those seeking enlightenment

...

https://www.guruviking.com/ep60-frank-yang-full-natty-arhat/

Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Stitcher – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 22 Join Date: 6/27/20
This was a really great interview.

I enjoy Frank and he is solid motivation for those of us who are a bit more weird and gym bros.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 511 Join Date: 9/24/19
Lovely interview. Fun to see how his early experiences match with mine and then how it diverges as he progresses. Love his 3 dimensional descriptions of phenomenology.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 104 Join Date: 2/15/19
Thanks for checking out the interview guys!

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 1347 Join Date: 5/4/20
The interview made it clear to me that he is just experiencing the highs and lows of Bipolar Depression.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 37 Join Date: 8/13/19
Daniel Ingram is an INFJ personality type and Fank Yang is an INTJ, both personality types have the same interaciton style; direct, responding, movement.

The movement/control dichotomy is important in psychology, as it explains why they speak and move so quickly, and seem chaotic, all movement personality types are as such.

Contrast to the interviewer who is INFP (as are jack kornfield, osho, adyashanti, saddghuru, kenneth folk) who are all triple control and stereotypical mystics, and you can see the difference.

But it is literally just cognition and personality types. This is major blindspot for alot of meditators, they don't understand the different typs of cognition or conciousness people are starting with.

To the interviewer vikinguru who is an INFP, your natural interaction style is informative responding control. The responding is important here, as you prefer to respond to other people rather than initiate new points and lead the conversation. This is absolutely fine, but when you are interviewing someone else who has the same preference, it can make the conversation slightly more awakward and free flowing. Something to be aware of

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 29 Join Date: 5/8/20
Tom C:
Daniel Ingram is an INFJ personality type and Fank Yang is an INTJ...

I'm not so sure that either of these guys is introverted. Daniel has referred to himself as extroverted (in an introductory blurb accompanying his BatGap interview years ago), and Frank seems quite extroverted as well (though it could be argued that that's just the manic phase of his possible bipolar disorder).  So maybe ENFJ and ENTJ, respectively.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Osokin:

I'm not so sure that either of these guys is introverted. Daniel has referred to himself as extroverted (in an introductory blurb accompanying his BatGap interview years ago), and Frank seems quite extroverted as well (though it could be argued that that's just the manic phase of his possible bipolar disorder).  So maybe ENFJ and ENTJ, respectively.
I would say that technically real extroverts are exceptionally rare.
Most out going people are introverts with internal issues resolved and conditioned to not think so much about stuff before acting.

I would descrive extroverts as having completely open ended mind configuration. Extrovertic mind configuration is completely incapable of feeback loops and person who is actually an extrovert must use external system senses to get any feedback loops (these are needed for continuity of experience). These open ended configurations can happen in various places in the brain and are associated with different issues than introvertic configurations. Also extrovertic configurations are relatively simpler.

Many people who have configuration very similar to extrovertic but still not completely open ended will register as ENT type.
Of course people with parts of their nervous system being extrovertic can register as INT if some important part related to sense of self is introvertic.

And in reality mind is spagetti in the forest so it is often hard to even tell. I think Daniel classified himself correctly. He shows behaviour typical for person who have internal feedback loop directly in his mind and even his descriptions of non-duality shows that.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Do you have any data to back that up? It sounds very speculative and... well, it sounds psuedo-scientific.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Chris Marti:
Do you have any data to back that up? It sounds very speculative and... well, it sounds psuedo-scientific.
What does matter anyway?
The brain has to be removed anyway

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
What does matter anyway?

Because I'd like to think you're not just spouting BS all the time. It seems that you are, and it seems to me you do it on purpose. So my question, right back at you, is why?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Chris, here you have brain activity visualization
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/6beb18d/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1974+0+0/resize/840x810!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fa7%2F0e%2F8f4fdf61936915cf86c7bb2ab3aa%2Fla-xpm-photo-2012-sep-13-la-he-brain-research-20120913
As you can see there is a lot of pathways which suggest signals run mostly in straight lines.

My observation, and it is something I have zero hard proof for unfortunately, is that introvertic mind will have a lot more active connections between ends of these signals back to somewhere at their beginning. This is what I call feedback loops.

Extrovertic configuration is with less such feedback loops so there is internally less communication. This causes people more likely to react to their thoughts and actions after they have been manifested externally and also makes them manifest them more because less of them are stopped in the middle.

In case of internal presentations of sensations if person describes sensations as having anything "built-in" eg. comprehension. Connections are going bacj feeding signals back elsewhere so that they automatically triggers other systems related to it to generate eg. said comprehension to show itself at the same time. If you have less of these in perception of sensations then sensations won't have anything built in.

In my own case I learned how to control these feedback loops and I can choose if I have raw sensations or with comrepehnsion built-in. I recognized similar set of pathways elsewhere which is making me behave more or less extrovertic depending on their activation. These I recognize as signals going back internally and feeding informations back to places where they originated. If there is no such communication then it will literally require me to do something and observe it to even know did it. BTW. Neither having too much such communication is good nor none at all.

-----------------------------
It is something which is felt in the general experience. Not most obvious set of places to look at for anything but if you do that then it gives you more control over your mind and behaviour and perception. I do not know how to describe it from this perspective. It is done by just feeling your way inside your mind and seeing what does what. If you do you have internal map and can use it. This doesn't yet give clear idea what this is and how it works but many years ago when I discovered these things I was at least aware that this have to do with some kind of feedback loops.

Does this ring any bell?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
Sorry, but no.

Again, it seems that you're making scientific-sounding stuff up as you go, and that you're posting that material here as something more than what it is.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 6986 Join Date: 12/8/18
Tom C:
Daniel Ingram is an INFJ personality type and Fank Yang is an INTJ, both personality types have the same interaciton style; direct, responding, movement.

The movement/control dichotomy is important in psychology, as it explains why they speak and move so quickly, and seem chaotic, all movement personality types are as such.

Contrast to the interviewer who is INFP (as are jack kornfield, osho, adyashanti, saddghuru, kenneth folk) who are all triple control and stereotypical mystics, and you can see the difference.

But it is literally just cognition and personality types. This is major blindspot for alot of meditators, they don't understand the different typs of cognition or conciousness people are starting with.

To the interviewer vikinguru who is an INFP, your natural interaction style is informative responding control. The responding is important here, as you prefer to respond to other people rather than initiate new points and lead the conversation. This is absolutely fine, but when you are interviewing someone else who has the same preference, it can make the conversation slightly more awakward and free flowing. Something to be aware of

I have seen Daniel Ingram say that he is INFP. I remember that because I am too.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
I am an engineer so this language feels most natural to me. When something presents itself to me I do not seek for fancy non-dual words, just name it ecxactly how it looks.

But anyway, this does not make any sense. If you do not like this kind of language on your site then I will try to not post anything which sound similar to this.

Is that ok with you?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
If you do not like this kind of language on your site then I will try to not post anything which sound similar to this.

I'm just trying to understand your wording choices. Gain clarity, as they say. Your posts come across to me as coming from a biology/neurology paradigm. Are you a chemical engineer?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 939 Join Date: 2/22/20
Train morality Chris

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13
What do you mean by that?

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 37 Join Date: 8/13/19
Daniel Ingram isn't an INFP. He's an INFJ, his interaction style is direct responding movement. The movement means he is completely focused on the process of how things done, he speaks and describes processes, and moves quick. INFP are all triple control/outcome, I posted a ton of INFPs so you can compare. INFPs usually have outcomes in mind, they have a point they want to make when they speak, they move and talk with purpose and outcome specific. Its night and day. This is just one dichotomy thats just describing why Frank and Daniel move fast and are alike, and thats becuase INTJ and INFJ share the same interaction style.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 3254 Join Date: 4/20/09
Just so you know, when tested, I come out INFP. You are obviously welcome to your opinions, but realize that public personas are not always entirely congruous with internal realities.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 6986 Join Date: 12/8/18
Tom C:
Daniel Ingram isn't an INFP. He's an INFJ, his interaction style is direct responding movement. The movement means he is completely focused on the process of how things done, he speaks and describes processes, and moves quick. INFP are all triple control/outcome, I posted a ton of INFPs so you can compare. INFPs usually have outcomes in mind, they have a point they want to make when they speak, they move and talk with purpose and outcome specific. Its night and day. This is just one dichotomy thats just describing why Frank and Daniel move fast and are alike, and thats becuase INTJ and INFJ share the same interaction style.

Well, excuse me for trusting Daniel's words over yours when it comes to his own test results. I'll pass on the comparisons, thankyou very much.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 37 Join Date: 8/13/19
Daniel M. Ingram:
Just so you know, when tested, I come out INFP. You are obviously welcome to your opinions, but realize that public personas are not always entirely congruous with internal realities.

Daniel, the test is obviously self assessment and is flawed. The difference in one question will dictate whether you come out INFP or INFJ. However these two personality types are extremely different. INFJ are empaths (they can read, consider and understand other people emotions better than any other type) and very future focused visionaries, and INFP are more focused on their own feeling and morals, and are more social theorists.

Heres an easy one; INFP's insecurity is around a function called extraverted thinking, which means they really care about their reputation and what other people think of them, they're insecure about it. INFJs are completely unaware of what people think and care less about reputations. INFJ insecurity actually lies in extraverted sensing which is the emergent tangible reality around them, it can manifest as insecure about how they come across, look, sound, smell or how they engage or interact with the real world. Theres tons more differences, as basically we have 8 cognitive functions, and each cognitive function has an archetypal energy associated with it (insecure energy being one)

I have studied extensively jungian pyschology, and depth typology on which these tests are based. You are an INFJ, Im more than happy to talk you through it and/or send you source material for you to study.

I think personality type is so important to enlightenment and the different types of enlightenment we see. I've been meaning to email you about it

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 37 Join Date: 8/13/19
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Tom C:
Daniel Ingram isn't an INFP. He's an INFJ, his interaction style is direct responding movement. The movement means he is completely focused on the process of how things done, he speaks and describes processes, and moves quick. INFP are all triple control/outcome, I posted a ton of INFPs so you can compare. INFPs usually have outcomes in mind, they have a point they want to make when they speak, they move and talk with purpose and outcome specific. Its night and day. This is just one dichotomy thats just describing why Frank and Daniel move fast and are alike, and thats becuase INTJ and INFJ share the same interaction style.

Well, excuse me for trusting Daniel's words over yours when it comes to his own test results. I'll pass on the comparisons, thankyou very much.

Sure, you're formally excused No problem on the comparisons, each of us must make our own choice of truth vs ignorance.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 6986 Join Date: 12/8/18
As a fellow Jungian I would respectfully suggest that a little less judgement (J) and a little more openness to sensory input (P) might be helpful for you both in daily life and in your practice.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 37 Join Date: 8/13/19
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
As a fellow Jungian I would respectfully suggest that a little less judgement (J) and a little more openness to sensory input (P) might be helpful for you both in daily life and in your practice.

Thanks, that doesn't actually make much sense though. Perception covers four cognitive functions over two spectra, sensory input is only one spectra, the other is intution. I'm not sure how it relates in any way shape or form to this conversation though, why would using Introverted sensing or extraverted sensing relate this conversation. I think you're confused, but no biggie, I appreciate the advice though.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 6986 Join Date: 12/8/18
Intuition has its own part in that model, as I would assume you know. That's the N in the INFP. INFP means Introvert INtuitive Feeling Perceptive.

The J in INFJ doesn't stand for intuition, but for Judging. That's why when I have been off my ADHD medication for too long (and possibly in reobservation) shift from INFP to INFJ, that is, from a peacemaker/diplomat to an advocat/protector. That's also why I hinted that you might benefit from staying open to new information (P) rather than judging (J).

If Meyers and Briggs had been diligent meditators, they might have worded things differently, since thoughts and feelings and new information are all sensory phenomena, which becomes clear with the practice.

#### RE: Frank Yang: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 130 Join Date: 2/14/13
What a deranged idiot!

#### RE: Frank Young: Mahasi practitioner, just attained 4th path

Posts: 118 Join Date: 5/9/20
Definitely seems manic at 3x speed playback  I'm using this chrome extension