noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aware

Fractal Yogi, modified 5 Months ago.

noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aware

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/3/20 Recent Posts
Hello everyone, first of all, I wanted to be thankful for this pragmatic forum being active.

background of the practice:
I started Mahasi noting (still a bit clunky with the technique) 7 days ago along with Mctb style noting of 3c (feels easier/smoother). 
As of now, I can notice sensations as vibrations/pulses, several times per second, for the breath, pain, touch, etc. Can't quite do this with seeing, or hearing yet.

Today, while meditating, I noticed that if I just 'know' /'be aware' of sensations/vibrations, it's a smooth chain/sequence of vibrations. so, for the breath, it feels like I can feel 5 beginning/end pairs per second. 

However, if I mentally note it, the chain of sensations immediately comes to a hard stop. and for the next third or half a second, the sequence is paused until that sensation (most likely) or some other sensation (less likely) is experienced again. so, if I 'note' the sensation with 'rising', 'falling', or 'hearing', I can maybe note 2 times per second. Am I imagining this based on theory or does this sound right? This just started happening today, and wasn't happening the last 6 days. it's very unsmooth and I'm wondering if this is what Daniel refers to as insight being a jarring, edgy process?

So, from my perspective, as a sequence of physical and mental pair occurs (being aware of the sensation occurrences), if I then make a note, the sequence stops (almost as if I'm breaking my bike with brand new breaks). then, I can either direct my attention again on the rising or falling breath sensation sequence and it starts again, until I make a note again and it stops. 

Also, once a sensation sequence stops in the tracks after making a note, if I don't direct my attention back to same sequence, the next sequence is like 70% likely to be the previous sequence or 30% likely to be another sequence (maybe the body). 

Additionally, at the end of the in breath or the end of the out breath, I see that the part of mind that's aware of the physical sensations stops along with the physical sensations... and for a short moment I can intuit silence/emptiness before it switches to another sensation in the background (like the body) for a while until a new in breath or out breath starts. 

So, my question is, should I just stay at the edge of present moment while being aware of impermanence of sensations really fast (5-6 times per second), or should I note sensations at 2x per second that brings about a stop to that sensation sequence? Which will help bring about steam entry faster? 

Thank you! I appreciate your feedbacks. 
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Ni Nurta, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aw

Posts: 660 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Fractal Yogi:
Hello everyone, first of all, I wanted to be thankful for this pragmatic forum being active.
Hi you emoticon

So, my question is, should I just stay at the edge of present moment while being aware of impermanence of sensations really fast (5-6 times per second), or should I note sensations at 2x per second that brings about a stop to that sensation sequence? Which will help bring about steam entry faster? 
Option #1
And while at it try to some times notice what kinds of noting you can do or can happen on its own and how that affects sensations and noting speed and how using different types of noting feels like. That action of investigation should take care for optimizing your noting method.

ps.
Generally very good observations emoticon
Fractal Yogi, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aw

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/3/20 Recent Posts
Wonderful, I'll continue investigating! And thank you for reassurance on what I am seeing!
Fractal Yogi, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aw

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/3/20 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta
...notice what kinds of noting you can do or can happen on its own and how that affects sensations and noting speed and how using different types of noting feels like. That action of investigation should take care for optimizing your noting method.

Yeah, today I realized that yesterday, after making a note, I was actually switching focus entirely to the noted label. And once the noted label is gone, I was lacking an object for a moment until I switched back. Today, I realized that I can do a label in parallel without really switching focus to the label, which prevents the breaks/pauses that I was seeing yesterday. Thanks!
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Alan Smithee, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aw

Posts: 310 Join Date: 4/2/10 Recent Posts
Your noting doesn't have to be fast but you want your "noticing" at times you want your awareness to be as wide and inclusive as possible. You can note fast if it helps with your mindfulness and concentration; conversely, you can note slower if trying to go too fast hurts mindfulness and concentration. 

I've heard of yogis getting stream noting out-loud/verbally once per second. 

The noting just functions to keep you grounded in the present moment. The note/label doesn't really matter, e.g., it can just be "note, note," or "hear, hear," "see, see," "uh, uh." You don't really have to look for anything in particular (e.g., see suffering, see no-self); You just want to experience (notice) the sensations in their most basic form without conceptualizing them. For example, "sensation" as opposed to "cramp."

Sometimes awareness seems to affect the sensations and sometimes not. E.g., awareness seems to impact combined mind sensations (e.g., thoughts), whereas they may not do so similarly with the other sense doors. 

 You can note piti (vibrations, pulsations, crackling) because they are sorta fascinating and tend to draw our attention but any sense door sensation will work (e.g., pain sensation or a sound). If examining sensations from the other sense doors, like pain, try noting the elements that make up the pain (the concept)? 
Fractal Yogi, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: noting seems to break/pause chain of experience unlike knowing/being aw

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/3/20 Recent Posts
Alan Smithee:
You can note fast if it helps with your mindfulness and concentration; conversely, you can note slower if trying to go too fast hurts mindfulness and concentration. 

I've heard of yogis getting stream noting out-loud/verbally once per second. 

I see, adjusting the speed based on what's needed at a given time. Thanks.

Alan Smithee
You don't really have to look for anything in particular (e.g., see suffering, see no-self); You just want to experience (notice) the sensations in their most basic form without conceptualizing them. For example, "sensation" as opposed to "cramp."
Yeah, it seems that the Mahasi technique says to just pay attention. It doesn't mention to observe the 3Cs like the MCTB suggests. That seems like the main initial difference in techniques, but I guess both techniques probably merge in that regard once some progress is made and some insight knowledges are revealed. 

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