Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago.

Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
I was going thru the dark night as usual, misery was kicking my ass as usual. I had been watching Daniels various podcasts and that motivated me to not be a wimp. I got mad skills but have been lazy. I layed in bed and meditated for a couple hours to get up to EQ and maybe get a fruition, though I've stopped letting myself do that for years as its worthless for where I'm at. I got up to high EQ, kept my vision panoramic in the closed eyes and watched all the little smudges of dream/subconsciousness stuff arise and flicker. The usual strobing effect started as things got synced. I layed there watching the show but realized it was not gonna pop. At that point I instructed the mind to speed up the flickering dream stuff. I then instructed the mind from this faster point to realize that all the flickering was empty upon arising instead of arising and passing. Some number of maybe a hundred or so experiences of emptiness happened very very rapidly. I was operating at the speed of awareness to do this. I noticed that all the processes/noise stopped but there was still unexplainable infrastructure there to see. I was done though. Sub attainment of some sort had been completed.Misery is no longer physical but still mental, so much better, so far. It hurts so much less but the mental anguish is still there and makes me want to cry about half way most of the time. So clean, clear, still sucky, lol.Additional notices- physical sensations of hunger are not the same, I remind myself to eat, or with low blood sugar the mental anguish kicks in and screws me.Whatever I deleted seems very like first pathish stuff with a second layer of mental to go. Wish someone would have told me years ago to do this. So there you go!

Clear goal - Delete 3rd path physical subconsciousness processes
Clear recipe- Go to high eq, increase speed of observed dreamy process. Do emptiness upon arising of the processes
Clear results – The processes one after another in fast secession are deleted, many times so very fast. Multiple physical sensations are deleted including physical misery.
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Ni Nurta, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 686 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Hi Dre,
I sense that dharma is strong with you today emoticon

But seriously that experience of architecture is a good one.
Can you see this architecture in less flashy but easily accessible way?
If yes how would you call this mind state? Also how it feels and looks like?

I ask a lot of questions because I want to compare notes. This is the juicy stuff my dho account exists for ;)
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Can you see this architecture in less flashy but easily accessible way?
If yes how would you call this mind state? Also how it feels and looks like?

I ask a lot of questions because I want to compare notes. This is the juicy stuff my dho account exists for ;)
I am sorry, I have no idea what your background is, I'm using very specific language to express myself where I can. If we don't have a common vocabulary it makes it very difficult to create a "easily accessible way"  or "feels and looks". 
If you are not somewhere in 3rd path with Mahamudra experience, you will not understand a thing I said.
Read "Pointing out the Great Way" by Daniel p. Brown if you wish to understand more.
Good Luck
~D
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Ni Nurta, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 686 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
My background is that I have been here and there.
What you are talking about doesn't sound like something which would require specialized Vajrayana trainings.
I have no problem understanding you.

Have fun with your practice.
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta
My background is that I have been here and there.
What you are talking about doesn't sound like something which would require specialized Vajrayana trainings.
I have no problem understanding you.
OK, ask a specific question. This is not Vajrayana. Emptiness upon arising is a mahamudra thing in my experience.

Clear recipe- Go to high eq, increase speed of observed dreamy process. Do emptiness upon arising of the processes
So- get to high EQ right where fruition happens. Look at the same suble stuff like when you are in 7th jhana and there seems to be a lot of stuff going on under nothingness. Get the strobing to happen just like high EQ does before fruition. Instruct the mind to speed shit up. then instruct it to do emptiness upon arising.
What is not clear?
~D
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1756 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
The key to 3rd for me was giving up on the idea of a clearly definable process.
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
George S
The key to 3rd for me was giving up on the idea of a clearly definable process.
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5800908

Thats wonderful! So how does someone else repeat your non-process?
Any advice?...Ya, not so much. thanks for pointing that out.
~D
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1756 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I realized that awakening couldn't possibly be anything I wanted or expected. So I tried to deconstruct every idea I had about what awakening might involve. I pushed that pretty hard and then shit started to happen. I did disappear into a bit of a nondual rabbit hole, but it worked out in the end :-)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Interesting thoughts! 

First some ranting before getting into the good stuff. Please bear with me!

George, so now you are in the part of your cycling where you are certain that you are awakened? And you feel confident enough to give advice to someone whom others who claim to be awakened refer to as one of their biggest supports in that process? I respectfully call bullshit. I believe it would benefit both your practice and - on the long term - your wellbeing if you could learn to preach less and listen more. You have asked to be called out when needed. Consider this a call out. 

Dream Walker, I wouldn't dismiss Ni Nurta that readily. He uses a very different lingo but I think the two of you could probably have really interesting conversations if you both would assume less and explore more. He has built up some pretty interesting tech, just like you have. Maybe you could pick up a few things from each other. I don't always have the energy to overbridge communication difficulties, so I can relate to feeling the need to deprioritize that. However, it just might be a difference in perspective that points out one's own blind spots. 

Ni Nurta, you probably need to fill out the blanks more, that is, make some effort to find common ground. Your language is just as based on your taken-for-granted stuff as other people's wordings, and it might be helpful to be open to the possibility that you actually don't understand other people's perspectives/experiences as well as you think. 

Sorry for my bluntness. I'm currently unable to sugarcoat it. I do mean well. I actually like all of you a lot.

As for the topic of the thread, I feel like this is what I'm doing too, but with less precision and less systematically. Just like you said, Dream Walker, this isn't usually pointed out explicitly, so thankyou! I take this as a sign that I'm going in the right direction. I had to make my own mischmasch of very different practices to arrive at my version of it (MCTB2 and Dzogchen/Mahamudra were both important for it to click). Before I found that intersection, I felt pretty lost. I'll explore if your description of the steps can make my very intuitively driven process more replicable, because I do have lots of subprocesses to delete and a lot of it is buried in my body. I think some major knots have been tied up very recently, but I have no doubt that there are more knots to untie. When a knot is untied, I find that the emotions that were entangled in it come to the surface with a surprising strength, which can be a bit overwhelming and... well, messy. Still, the entanglement was clearly incapacitating, so I wouldn't want to go back to more of that. It does feel purer like this, like a healing pain. It's fascinating that your wordings are almost exactly the same wordings that I have been using when trying to describe my experiences to friends. I have a very tangible sense of a complex infrastructure that is gradually untangling and dissolving. It happens at the threshold of the subconscious and it often happens very fast. I'm just starting to learn to instruct the mind to get into this subtle mode instead of just waiting for it to happen. Do you have any advice on how to do this in a reliable way? 
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1333 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö
It happens at the threshold of the subconscious and it often happens very fast. I'm just starting to learn to instruct the mind to get into this subtle mode instead of just waiting for it to happen. Do you have any advice on how to do this in a reliable way? 
Nope. I've not gone back yet but would just do the same again, get to high EQ after resolving to not get a cessasion, Look around and see whats there. You could also try 7th jhana.
Good luck Polly
~D
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I haven't mastered this resolving thing. That's kind of the thing I need advice on how to do instead of just surrendering to the process and hope that it will take charge. 

I haven't visited higher jhanas since they got me into what seemed like an almost endless loop leading to very slow suffering door cessations. It felt a bit like being mentally raped in retrospect, or forced to give birth over and over again for hours. 
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1756 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö
George, so now you are in the part of your cycling where you are certain that you are awakened? And you feel confident enough to give advice to someone whom others who claim to be awakened refer to as one of their biggest supports in that process?


​​​​​​​I’m not fully awakened. I know how to experience nibbana when I need, which is several times a day, but I still need to remind myself. However I am confident that it is nibbana.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
George: yet your log is full of examples of what could be described as the kind of physical subprocesses that Dream Walker is talking about, still at play.
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1756 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Of course, what do you expect?!
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Well, you have a tendency of sounding like you have put all that behind you. You did use past tense in talking about these issues and third path. Just sayin'. 
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 1756 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Third path is past, issues are still present!

I think I made a false assumption about this discussion. I saw the reference to 3rd path and assumed that the context was being stuck at 3rd, but (re)reading DW’s Framework of Awakening I see that the context is post-4th. Sorry Dream Walker! Deleting subprocesses sounds like a great practice. I also got a lot out of your framework – thank you emoticon
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Ni Nurta, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Deleting physical subprocesses including DN misery modification

Posts: 686 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I just asked because my suspicions were it is somehow related to 7th jhana ;)

@Linda
I gave a lot of thoughts to what you said, got some ideas and now on to practice.
Big thanks emoticon

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