Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

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Michael B Read, modified 12 Years ago at 9/29/11 9:50 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 9/29/11 9:50 PM

Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/17/10 Recent Posts
Hi everyone,

After first encountering the actual freedom method in 2003, I have spent the better part of eight years rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. I have tried every delaying tactic and every feeble excuse I know in a futile attempt to avoid acting on this knowledge. Now, I feel as if I am slowly marching toward my own oblivion. I've experienced major depression and several other health issues including a chronic pain condition since that time, which is made it difficult for me to walk the path toward actual freedom but I feel as if I have little choice but to commit to the task. I thought I might ask my fellow travellers for some advice. I hope this is okay and I apologise in advance for any misstep on my part.

My practice consists mainly of HAIETMOBA-style enquiry and the focusing of attention on the sensate experience of my surroundings. I have no background in meditation or other methods of cultivation so I do not feel qualified to draw parallels with any other contemplative practices. My key concerns are as follows:

1. What approach should I take to the actual freedom method and the process of enquiry that might enable me to make progress in spite of ongoing and at times quite severe physical pain?
2. How should I reconcile my practice with the sense of obligation that I feel toward my family and in particular my parents with whom I currently live?
3. Finally, what practical implications does the Actualist path have on pursuing what could be labelled ‘romantic relationships’? I met a woman online only a few days ago who has suddenly professed her love for me. Romance does not play a big part in my life, which may in part be due to past experiments with Actual Freedom but I, nevertheless, do not want to hurt her in any way. I should perhaps mention that the chat site is a paid service, which I can ill afford, particularly as a I have a rather expensive appointment with a Neurologist in less than a fortnight. What should I do?

To put my concerns and context, I thought it might be helpful to quote Richard from the Actual Freedom site ‘No, what I am saying is that ‘I’ cannot experience the actuality of being caring ... ‘I’ can only experience the feeling of being caring. For example, the last time I visited my biological parents (1984) I was told ‘we worry about you’ ... which fretful feeling of apprehension/anxiety is, to them, being caring.’
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/selectedcorrespondence/sc-love.htm

Peter touches on the same issues when he says 'Although one of my sons died at an early age, I released the other son of the burden of the expectation that I would continue to provide for him beyond the point where he left the nest and also of the burden that he would have to provide for me in my old age. This simple unilateral action – one that can be taken by either a parent or an offspring – means that one is well on the path to seeing, and treating, one’s parents and children for what they really are – fellow human beings.’

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/peter/selected-correspondence/corr-belonging.htm

It seems that both Richard and Peter have distanced themselves from their families. I live with my parents because I am currently on a disability support pension and their financial and emotional not to mention practical support is a great help to me. The idea that I might be lost to them with all that this entails has long scared me. It is in fact one of the main reasons why I have been too fearful to put actualism into practice. It feels tantamount to betrayal. I know that Richard and Peter have both written extensively on the topics of belonging and identity but I can't seem to locate the relevant passages. I find the site to be more difficult to navigate than I once did, but that may just be me. I will add further information as I find it and will keep the board up to date with my progress. Sorry once again if I’ve missed anything. Thank you all for your time.

Stay well,

Michael.
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josh r s, modified 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 7:46 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 7:46 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 337 Join Date: 9/16/11 Recent Posts
After first encountering the actual freedom method in 2003, I have spent the better part of eight years rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. I have tried every delaying tactic and every feeble excuse I know in a futile attempt to avoid acting on this knowledge. Now, I feel as if I am slowly marching toward my own oblivion. I've experienced major depression and several other health issues including a chronic pain condition since that time, which is made it difficult for me to walk the path toward actual freedom but I feel as if I have little choice but to commit to the task. I thought I might ask my fellow travellers for some advice. I hope this is okay and I apologise in advance for any misstep on my part.


so far so good

1. What approach should I take to the actual freedom method and the process of enquiry that might enable me to make progress in spite of ongoing and at times quite severe physical pain?
2. How should I reconcile my practice with the sense of obligation that I feel toward my family and in particular my parents with whom I currently live?
3. Finally, what practical implications does the Actualist path have on pursuing what could be labelled ‘romantic relationships’? I met a woman online only a few days ago who has suddenly professed her love for me. Romance does not play a big part in my life, which may in part be due to past experiments with Actual Freedom but I, nevertheless, do not want to hurt her in any way. I should perhaps mention that the chat site is a paid service, which I can ill afford, particularly as a I have a rather expensive appointment with a Neurologist in less than a fortnight. What should I do?


1. In terms of physical pain, you may find that physical pain often has an emotional/affective component. It is often helpful to try to look at the whole body's experience at once when feeling pain, notice as much of your experience as you can and try to just incline away from that aversion. Just let the pain show itself without any of your interpretation or interference. Don't focus on it or ignore it, or push it away or pull it towards you, just sort of watch everything at once letting it be as it is as much as possible. This is an effective type of attention, just keeping trying to incline towards the senses showing themselves without interference and investigate psychological issues that pop up.

2. You can reconcile it by seeing that feelings of obligation don't really help them, and that you are actually helping them more by becoming happy and harmless. I know that my practice has helped my family because i simply do not have to argue with them or place nearly as much of a burden on them.

3. Well, i guess that's just a decision you will have to make, actualism isn't about adopting any specific morality, more about investigating sorrow and malice.

It seems that both Richard and Peter have distanced themselves from their families. I live with my parents because I am currently on a disability support pension and their financial and emotional not to mention practical support is a great help to me. The idea that I might be lost to them with all that this entails has long scared me. It is in fact one of the main reasons why I have been too fearful to put actualism into practice. It feels tantamount to betrayal. I know that Richard and Peter have both written extensively on the topics of belonging and identity but I can't seem to locate the relevant passages. I find the site to be more difficult to navigate than I once did, but that may just be me. I will add further information as I find it and will keep the board up to date with my progress. Sorry once again if I’ve missed anything. Thank you all for your time.


Just because those two guys have had that experience doesn't mean you have to. There are many actually free people on this website, I can think of 5 who have mentioned partners and 1 who has a kid. Do you see any evidence that eliminating malice and sorrow will cause you to abandon your family? You don't have to model your lives after the first few people who figured this out; just implement the practice, mostly attentiveness and investigation in your own life, and see what happens.
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#1 - 0, modified 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 12:26 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 12:26 PM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
In regards to the issue of family: Instead of worrying so much about the connections being "broken", try to cultivate towards PCE or EE first and then utilize that particular mode of attention when dealing with your family. You may just find that your interactions with your family are actually much "closer" and more rewarding than before because the "connection" is only "broken" to allow the "distance" between you and them to dissolve completely.
Felipe C, modified 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 10:13 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 9/30/11 10:13 PM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 221 Join Date: 5/29/11 Recent Posts
Michael

2. How should I reconcile my practice with the sense of obligation that I feel toward my family and in particular my parents with whom I currently live?


Richard on pure intent

...The goal is that you will become carefree and considerate...


I guess you need to examine your feeling of 'obligation'. The feeling of obligation comes from the social notions of ethics and justice, but in practice both have taught us that they are just means to perpetuate the unity and social contract within society, but with the high cost of the repression of a lot of feelings. So, if you feel obliged, it does not look like sincere consideration and does look a lot like an artificial and forced imperative. I think the 'harmless' thing comes from a sincere and pure intent, and not just because that's the way it must be. It seems the only way to be actually considerate is to be free of our own agendas and our pleasure-seeking-at-all-times desires.
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Michael B Read, modified 12 Years ago at 10/2/11 9:19 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/2/11 9:19 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/17/10 Recent Posts
Hi everyone,

First of all, I'd like to thank Josh, #1 – 0 and Felipe for kindly sharing their thoughts with me.

Josh, I agree that physical pain has a tendency to trigger all manner of emotional and affective states. I've certainly found it difficult in the past to avoid becoming ensnared in a downward spiral of physical pain -> negative emotion -> physical pain. In my experience, physiological and psychological stressors can and often do feed off one another, compounding the problem. I'm experiencing some discomfort as I write this so it's a good opportunity to practice. I'll keep experimenting.

# 1- 0, I think that it helps to be reminded of the ultimate objective of this practice: happiness and harmlessness. It's certainly a salutary reminder to call to mind those occasions when my emotional states and desires have a disruptive effect on my family and to examine my motives at those times. It is nevertheless good to know that there is a degree of innate flexibility in the Actual Freedom approach. By seeing how others live their practice, it helps me to keep things in appropriate perspective.

Felipe, I think you are right to question exactly how much of these problematic feelings are a product of conditioning and how much they are born of genuine consideration and altruism. Life here is more likely to run smoothly when we are not trying to impose our own agendas upon those around us. This is another reminder of the importance of practice. These issues are likely to be soluble with time, provided I devote plenty of time to sincere enquiry. Stay well.

'Til next time,

Michael.
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Andrew , modified 12 Years ago at 10/5/11 8:39 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/5/11 8:39 PM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 336 Join Date: 5/23/11 Recent Posts
Hi Michael,

I am very new to AF, only coming in contact with it over the last few months, and actually taking an interest over the last few weeks.

What is clearly apparent is that 'common sense' is more important than ever. No one can set you free. Copying the lifestyle / life choices of the AFT founders will not set you free. Making decisions based on what others decided to do with their lives will not set you free.

It you treat it like a religion, a set of rules, a behaviour to emulate, it will always be stale and old by the time you go to 'try it out'.

I think some of the main things to remember are that the inclination to be free has a certain momentum base in what we are currently experiencing, i.e. your physical pain is most likely a large motivator 'to be free'. This is in my opinion both natural and dangerous.

Natural doesn't need explanation obviously, but dangerous does. I mean dangerous in that we may feel that if we adopt all the beliefs, say the right words, hang with the right people, otherwise copy others, freedom is the result. It isn't.

From what I can understand, AF is based in the basic principle of rewiring the brain constantly based on the here and now experience, not on what we read or someone told you. The challenge is not to adopt it all as a set of 'commandments', which largely have nothing to do with what is going on right now in our reality.

To that end use your common sense regarding this girl and your family. There is no prize for shunning relationships, there is no one is handing out freedom for those who have managed to isolate themselves arbitrarily based on what Richard or anyone else has done.

best wishes for your medical treatment and quest for freedom...

A
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Andrew , modified 12 Years ago at 10/5/11 10:41 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/5/11 10:41 PM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 336 Join Date: 5/23/11 Recent Posts
Michael B Read:
Hi everyone,

3. Finally, what practical implications does the Actualist path have on pursuing what could be labelled ‘romantic relationships’? I met a woman online only a few days ago who has suddenly professed her love for me. Romance does not play a big part in my life, which may in part be due to past experiments with Actual Freedom but I, nevertheless, do not want to hurt her in any way. I should perhaps mention that the chat site is a paid service, which I can ill afford, particularly as a I have a rather expensive appointment with a Neurologist in less than a fortnight. What should I do?

Michael.


something occurred to me when thinking about this at lunch, does the girl know you are into AF?
I remember reading about Peters (AFT site) experiment of being very up front with his potential partner and I actually find the account very inspiring in my own marriage, i.e. not playing out the whole 'manly' trip, but treating my wife as an autonomous human being, independent of the 'role' society has placed on her.

this is something to consider, rather than 'should I or shouldn't I'; be completely open and honest with her, avoiding the traditional ascentic way , that is; walking away from sexual relationships for the sake of one's 'progress'.

Perhaps she would be willing to walk the AF path with you? Exploring what it means to be actually free as a couple?



A
This Good Self, modified 12 Years ago at 10/6/11 3:52 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 10/6/11 3:52 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
Michael B Read:
Hi everyone,

After first encountering the actual freedom method in 2003, I have spent the better part of eight years rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. I have tried every delaying tactic and every feeble excuse I know in a futile attempt to avoid acting on this knowledge. Now, I feel as if I am slowly marching toward my own oblivion. I've experienced major depression and several other health issues including a chronic pain condition since that time, which is made it difficult for me to walk the path toward actual freedom but I feel as if I have little choice but to commit to the task. I thought I might ask my fellow travellers for some advice. I hope this is okay and I apologise in advance for any misstep on my part.

My practice consists mainly of HAIETMOBA-style enquiry and the focusing of attention on the sensate experience of my surroundings. I have no background in meditation or other methods of cultivation so I do not feel qualified to draw parallels with any other contemplative practices. My key concerns are as follows:

1. What approach should I take to the actual freedom method and the process of enquiry that might enable me to make progress in spite of ongoing and at times quite severe physical pain?
2. How should I reconcile my practice with the sense of obligation that I feel toward my family and in particular my parents with whom I currently live?
3. Finally, what practical implications does the Actualist path have on pursuing what could be labelled ‘romantic relationships’? I met a woman online only a few days ago who has suddenly professed her love for me. Romance does not play a big part in my life, which may in part be due to past experiments with Actual Freedom but I, nevertheless, do not want to hurt her in any way. I should perhaps mention that the chat site is a paid service, which I can ill afford, particularly as a I have a rather expensive appointment with a Neurologist in less than a fortnight. What should I do?

To put my concerns and context, I thought it might be helpful to quote Richard from the Actual Freedom site ‘No, what I am saying is that ‘I’ cannot experience the actuality of being caring ... ‘I’ can only experience the feeling of being caring. For example, the last time I visited my biological parents (1984) I was told ‘we worry about you’ ... which fretful feeling of apprehension/anxiety is, to them, being caring.’
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/selectedcorrespondence/sc-love.htm

Peter touches on the same issues when he says 'Although one of my sons died at an early age, I released the other son of the burden of the expectation that I would continue to provide for him beyond the point where he left the nest and also of the burden that he would have to provide for me in my old age. This simple unilateral action – one that can be taken by either a parent or an offspring – means that one is well on the path to seeing, and treating, one’s parents and children for what they really are – fellow human beings.’

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/peter/selected-correspondence/corr-belonging.htm

It seems that both Richard and Peter have distanced themselves from their families. I live with my parents because I am currently on a disability support pension and their financial and emotional not to mention practical support is a great help to me. The idea that I might be lost to them with all that this entails has long scared me. It is in fact one of the main reasons why I have been too fearful to put actualism into practice. It feels tantamount to betrayal. I know that Richard and Peter have both written extensively on the topics of belonging and identity but I can't seem to locate the relevant passages. I find the site to be more difficult to navigate than I once did, but that may just be me. I will add further information as I find it and will keep the board up to date with my progress. Sorry once again if I’ve missed anything. Thank you all for your time.

Stay well,

Michael.


Here's my suggestion. Be honest and tell this girl that you're living with your parents on a disability pension and that you suffer depression and anxiety and chronic pain. There's a 95% chance her "love" will vanish into thin air. The good that comes from this is that you have learned how to take a chance on being honest about who you are. If the 5% occurs, and she says it's ok, then meet up with her. Keep in mind that if she hangs around after knowing this, that she will also have a lot of problems. The task then will be to see if you can remain non-judgmental about her. Good training.

Connecting deeply with others cures depression very quickly. And since chronic pain is simply a manifestation of anxiety/depression, so too will that disappear. Go to the neurologist if you wish, but personally I'd be spending that same money on showing this girl a good time. The potential upside to my approach is far, far greater than getting some doctor to prescribe another painkiller or perform some unproven procedure on you.

Now it's back over to my fellow dho members who will do everything they can to convince you to continue on the spiritual path. If you choose their advice over mine, just keep in mind what it is you want (peace, happiness, joy, freedom) and whether you are getting closer to that, or further away.
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Michael B Read, modified 12 Years ago at 12/21/11 5:37 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/21/11 5:37 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/17/10 Recent Posts
Dear Andrew, Felipe, Josh, CCC and others,

I hope this post finds you all happy and harmless or near enough to it. I have been continuing my practice in Actual Freedom for the past few months with mixed results. I have had times where I have felt relatively peaceful and at ease, but I have also experienced setbacks which have felt quite disheartening. First of all, I just wanted to thank everyone who has replied to my original post or read what I've written for their time. Life can indeed be hectic so I appreciate the kind support and feedback offered by dhO practitioners. It is great to be able to tap into the font of collective knowledge and experience that is hosted here. The example set by Tarin, Trent and others is most illuminating.

The relationship I mentioned in my first post is likely no more. I haven’t heard from my online companion in more than a month, and do not hold out hope of doing so in future. I know that it is perhaps un-AF of me, but I have found myself falling back on the works of Eckhart Tolle and occasionally other Dharma talks by Ajahn Sumedho and others as reminders of the need to be present to what is as it unfolds. I try to cast a sceptical eye (which is not hard for a recovering cynic like me) on claims that seem unscientific, unreliable or plain unrealistic. I suppose Popper’s notion of falsifiability is instructive here. The conditioning brought up by the spectre of relationship certainly provides any practitioner with plenty of raw material for practice. I am no exception and have found many of my beliefs, preconceived ideas and prejudices about family, friendship, romance and sexuality have been strongly challenged by the events and investigation of the last few months. I am mindful of over disclosing but suffice it to say that sexuality and prolonged ill health or disability poses challenges for me in my efforts to be as happy and harmless as I can humanly be from day to day. I know that this is a topic which has received considerable attention elsewhere on the forum so I will not belabour the point here but if anybody has any advice on how to enquire into the nature of desire and the potential for harm not only to oneself but to others that comes from this, I would be most grateful.

I am not sure whether this is something that others have experimented with but I have also gone back to some books on CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) and RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) to brush up on my metacognitive skills a little. It helps for me to be reminded of the necessity to question my conditioned responses to people and dispute those thoughts and feelings which have no basis in rationality (or reality).

Interestingly, I have found that the practice often produces periods of mental clarity, but as Richard would probably be the first to point out, this is a vastly different thing to the experience of felicity and perfection to which he and others often refer. I am not sure (I certainly don't feel confident) about calling them PCEs but I do experience brief periods of clear awareness with increased sensory acuity. It is also accompanied by a feeling of increased pressure inside the head, lack of blinking, and strangely enough tension in and around the hard palate (roof of the mouth). I continue to practice with pain and discomfort, but I do not abjure medication and other forms of treatment when required. A good prescription can certainly be helpful.

I will keep practising and post more about my experiences as they occur. My new year’s resolution at this stage is to post more often while improving my practice so that I spend more and more time in a state of innocuous and enduring contentment.
Stay safe and well.

Thanks again,

Michael R.
Felipe C, modified 12 Years ago at 12/21/11 1:44 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/21/11 1:35 PM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 221 Join Date: 5/29/11 Recent Posts
Hi, Michael,
I recently had relationship issues that brought a lot of feelings too, all with a lot of potential to see 'how I tick'. And, since it seems that a lot of things are happening to you at the same time, maybe the following advice could work for you too.

So, I decided to solve specific things at specific times. I tried to operate as a detective and open specific lines of investigation. In this case, were my malice and my need to belong. One first and then the other.
What I did was

1. Read a lot about the topics around one of my lines of investigation from the AFT page's glossary and library
2. Take a day or two of exclusive attention to that line, contemplating alone how it was permeating each of my actions, thoughts and intentions.
3. When in communication with others, be attentive, with all your pure intent, to not just see how it operates before, during and after the interaction, but also to restrain any action inspired by that feeling and get back to feeling happy as soon as possible.

The results of all that were not just surprisingly effective individually but also accumulative: these lines of investigation formed a combo. In more specific and personal terms, I cut (at least a lot of) the umbilical cord that tied me to this one person (product of my investigation of the need to belong). Then, as a result, I would identify some feelings that came along with that feeling of independence like disdain, desire of seeing this person jealous and suffering for me, need for revenge, etc. So, if I was attentive, the harmlessness ignited automatically to let go all those subsequent feelings.

When that combo happens, everything look much clearer and pure, like the subtraction of specific elements is having a great impact on my general sense of self. Also this allows me to see how this spiderweb of 'me' is formed, to see clearer the connections within it (in this case, the intersection between malice and need to belong).

In summary, at least for me, specific investigations lead to untie some important knots that lead to unexpected results in the identity in general. So I think all is about the old 'think globally, act locally'. Be minimalist in action but generate and keep the pure intent of become actually free in general; be attentive with the reference frameworks product of your investigations in mind; and follow the leads of such investigations to discover even more causes and conditions of your feeling being in general.

Keep up the good work emoticon
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Michael B Read, modified 11 Years ago at 6/15/12 10:56 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/15/12 10:56 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/17/10 Recent Posts
Hi all,

Over the past couple of months, much of my initial enthusiasm for the actual freedom method has waned. I think it would be most premature to conclude that the fault lies with the technique, instead of lying with me and the strength of my sense of self. I am writing this while in the grip of a persistent migraine type headache which is no doubt affecting my state of mind and is clouding my awareness to some degree. It may be that I currently lack the necessary intestinal fortitude to fully commit myself to the process of extinguishing my ego once and for all. There is nothing unique about this but stepping into the great unknown has its challenges and and I have no idea how I might function in the world without my imaginative faculties, things such as my visual memory and so on. I also think that pain and the effects of pain can make it difficult to cultivate the senses of wonder and felicity upon which the method rather heavily relies. It is simple enough, but cannot bring myself to say that it is easy. In the past, my experience with cognitive behavioural therapy, rational emotive therapy and the like has actually yielded better and more lasting results than actualist HAIETMOBA style self enquiry. I am tempted to attribute this to 'operator error'. I suppose that the cerebral palsy to which I alluded in an earlier post has contributed to more feelings of self-doubt, rejection and self-pity than I care to admit. I trust that you are all finding your own journeys to be rewarding, even if rather challenging. I shall endeavour to update this thread periodically regarding any major developments.

Take care and all the best for now,

Michael Read.
Adam , modified 11 Years ago at 6/15/12 11:24 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 6/15/12 11:24 AM

RE: Michael - A Newcomer's Practice

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
No point in worrying about gradual long term changes like imagination. I think any attentiveness that has some aspiration towards a happier mind is good whatever it is called as long as you are recognizing mental behavior that causes mental suffering and endeavoring to stop it. But dont bring assumptions about what mental behavior is worthy of observation and change. Good luck