Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Tommy Toys, modified 2 Years ago at 6/10/21 10:18 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/10/21 10:17 PM

Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 26 Join Date: 11/30/20 Recent Posts
Since taking the spiritual path seriously about a year ago, I've been experiecing this pervasive sadness (for no particular reason) like a constant thing, hanging at the heart center. When I try to meditate, it usually becomes more clear and observable. Sometimes it "melts" after 20 mins in of meditation. Sometimes not. The sadness may subside every few days, but then easily come back. 

This seem to co-relate well with the timing that I gradually lost interest in pursuing any conventional goals (status/money/ego stories, or just generally new stimulus like travleing or new gadgets), as well as sometimes sense of helpless-ness or uncertainty with regards to many of the things that're broken / unjust / cruelty in the world.  (Those passion pretty much all redirected to search for enlightenment and teacher).

I wonder if folks here have similar experience of this as a stop on their spiritual path?   Or is it "merely" an emotion state outside the spritual domain.

// I've resisted to use the word "dark night" here as it seem too abused / generalized at this point.
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Emil Jensen, modified 2 Years ago at 6/11/21 6:13 AM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/11/21 6:13 AM

RE: Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 319 Join Date: 7/16/20 Recent Posts
Hi Tommy,

Allow me to delve in with my 2e-900 cents on this matter.

I know you say that you resist using the term DN, but it obviously is something which is talked a lot about for a reason. So how bout we consider that that's what it is?
If it is indeed DN, then get a teacher, plan some retreats and keep going until you make a breakthrough.

If it is an emotional state, then it's probably related to the way you live your life.
And the Buddha of living life well, is Tony Robbins. Lol!!! Good ole RRRRRoooooney Tobbins.

No kidding tho. I think his description of what we need in life, "the 6 human needs", is pretty re-goddam-diculously accurate and wise.
Certainty, uncertainty, growth, spiritual, love/connection and significance.
Do you have all these in your life? If not, then they can point to some areas of "right livelihood" that you can start focusing on easily.
And as well as we need a teacher to take us further with meditation, so I believe we also need a coach to take us further when it comes to personal growth/achievement.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of having guidance from others. Coaches, mentors, teachers. We need them and investing in them is personally the most fruitful investment I ever made.

So, that's all you get from 2e-900 cents from this idiot.

Take care and enjoy your weekend when you get to it.

Peace
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Eudoxos , modified 2 Years ago at 6/11/21 2:55 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/11/21 2:55 PM

RE: Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 136 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
Not sure how you (can) differentiate spiritual from emotional; as far as insight practices are concerned (in Theravada), emotions are included in the foundations of mindfulness (in the foundation of "dhammas", mind objects) and they deserve full attention. The insight stage of misery as described in MCTB2 uses the wording "vast universal ocean of sorrow"; that stage is purification of attachment to phenomena (which may include pursuing conventional goals; what a nice observation, really) as their suffering characteristic becomes so clear. Vissudhimagga XXI, 35. on that stage:
all formations appear as a huge mass of dangers destitute of satisfaction or substance, like a tumour, a disease, a dart, a calamity, an affliction
I don't find it always useful to hypostatize the stages or the DN, so don't read me "you are at stage X, which means that the next on will be Y etc", I don't know — just deal with what happens to show up; the saying "path is wiser than the one who walks it" applies.

Daniel writes about the fractal nature of insight cycles. I certainly do (and talked to others who did) have an experience of being in the misery (or another) stage for a few years, in the big scale of years/months, all while doing retreats and going through the cycle on a smaller time-scale of hours/days. This is perhaps often realized only in hindsight.
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Tommy Toys, modified 2 Years ago at 6/14/21 7:29 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/14/21 7:29 PM

RE: Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 26 Join Date: 11/30/20 Recent Posts
Eudoxos . Not sure how you (can) differentiate spiritual from emotional; as far as insight practices are concerned (in Theravada), emotions are included in the foundations of mindfulness (in the foundation of "dhammas", mind objects) and they deserve full attention. The insight stage of misery as described in MCTB2 uses the wording "vast universal ocean of sorrow"; that stage is purification of attachment to phenomena (which may include pursuing conventional goals; what a nice observation, really) as their suffering characteristic becomes so clear. Vissudhimagga XXI, 35. on that stage:
all formations appear as a huge mass of dangers destitute of satisfaction or substance, like a tumour, a disease, a dart, a calamity, an affliction
I don't find it always useful to hypostatize the stages or the DN, so don't read me "you are at stage X, which means that the next on will be Y etc", I don't know — just deal with what happens to show up; the saying "path is wiser than the one who walks it" applies. Daniel writes about the fractal nature of insight cycles. I certainly do (and talked to others who did) have an experience of being in the misery (or another) stage for a few years, in the big scale of years/months, all while doing retreats and going through the cycle on a smaller time-scale of hours/days. This is perhaps often realized only in hindsight.</p>
Very helpful! I used to refer to MCTB2 map for in-meditation experiences but not outside that. The fractal nature also starting to make more sense now. 
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Tommy Toys, modified 2 Years ago at 6/14/21 7:31 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/14/21 7:31 PM

RE: Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 26 Join Date: 11/30/20 Recent Posts
Good points Emil! Investing in teacher def critical. I've been following a tibetan tradition teacher for a while and while the progress still "slow", I can see the benefits unfolding gradually.

Emil Jensen
Hi Tommy,

Allow me to delve in with my 2e-900 cents on this matter.

I know you say that you resist using the term DN, but it obviously is something which is talked a lot about for a reason. So how bout we consider that that's what it is?
If it is indeed DN, then get a teacher, plan some retreats and keep going until you make a breakthrough.

If it is an emotional state, then it's probably related to the way you live your life.
And the Buddha of living life well, is Tony Robbins. Lol!!! Good ole RRRRRoooooney Tobbins.

No kidding tho. I think his description of what we need in life, "the 6 human needs", is pretty re-goddam-diculously accurate and wise.
Certainty, uncertainty, growth, spiritual, love/connection and significance.
Do you have all these in your life? If not, then they can point to some areas of "right livelihood" that you can start focusing on easily.
And as well as we need a teacher to take us further with meditation, so I believe we also need a coach to take us further when it comes to personal growth/achievement.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of having guidance from others. Coaches, mentors, teachers. We need them and investing in them is personally the most fruitful investment I ever made.

So, that's all you get from 2e-900 cents from this idiot.

Take care and enjoy your weekend when you get to it.

Peace
Top
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David Matte, modified 2 Years ago at 6/15/21 5:56 PM
Created 2 Years ago at 6/15/21 5:55 PM

RE: Pervasive sadness - is it spiritual state or just pure emotional?

Posts: 108 Join Date: 8/3/19 Recent Posts
Hey! I just want to say that this disenchantment and melancholy you feel is not an uncommon occurrence for those who make it anywhere on the spiritual path. Some would file this under the dukkha nanas as it sounds as though fragments of the imagined separate self have begun to dissolve. You must have had some insight experience for this to be triggered.  I just want to say that it is only temporary and you'll get over it with time and continued practise and this leads to finding a happiness more stable and fulfilling than any of those conditioned things you mentioned.
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