Jhanas and Nanas

Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 2 Months ago.

Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 184 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
I have a map that Daniel Ingram made that shows how the shamatha jhanas overlap the vipassana nanas. There is a correlation between the two as his map indicates.

Can the samatha jhanas also move independently of the vipassana nanas? For example can I be in any of the samatha jhanas 1-8 and be in the 5th nana or do I have to be in third shamatha jhana to access the 5th nana?

​​​​​​​Thanks!
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
Jhanas are karmically induced. If you want to experience the freedom that the sages have refered to, you just need to apply investigation.

Edit. If you suspect mental illness, no investigation is necessary.
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Pepe ·, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 441 Join Date: 9/26/18 Recent Posts
> Can the samatha jhanas also move independently of the vipassana nanas? For example can I be in any of the samatha jhanas 1-8 and be in the 5th nana or do I have to be in third shamatha jhana to access the 5th nana?

Daniel Ingram talks in MCTB about the fractal nature of the PoI (actually, Bill Hamilton coined "subjhanas"), so you can be in a J"x"-ñana5 in your example. Probably, seeing the endings of phenomena like in ñana 5 may be seen easier in J3, as your focus expands to the periphery, and that probably applies more subtly in the formless jhanas. Seeing the endings of phenomena and between the gaps is a standard pointer for SE.

Click control F + "fractal" in Hurricane Ranch Dialogue I: Daniel Ingram, Hokai Sobol, Kenneth Folk, Tarin Greco, Vince Horn but also in Daniel's Posts Compilation in general.
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
I had a world of trouble with that. Fractals. I would think that if I were investigating 5th jhana and there were a subjhana aspect of 3rd, I would need to go back and acknowledge 3rd at some point, and if I didn't happen during the day than I would have to take some extra precaution, like involving my parents and waking them up in the middle of the night. 
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
I would get a sense that it wasn't fair that I had done "such a good job" at vipassanizing 5th and then I was stuck back in reobservation having to give part of that insight up, or so it seemed at the time.
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Kaloyan Stefanov, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 69 Join Date: 2/18/21 Recent Posts
In my experience, Nanas are like "primary" filters and jhanas are more like secondary filters. Filters, although probably the best metaphor for this, is not a 100% accurate, because there is nothing that is observing from behind the filter emoticon

If I am in deep Equanimity for example, when I rest ,my attention will also naturally drift towards 4th jhana. However, whilst in deep Equanimity, I can access Jhana 1-4 so I don't need to be in Jhana 4 to be in Equanimity. Going to 1-3 feels a bit like "down-shifting" and throttling the engine though - there seems to be a gravity towards 4th jhana (and/or related jhanas such as formless) whilst in equanimity so to speak.
Kelly Gordon Weeks, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Jhanas and Nanas

Posts: 184 Join Date: 8/9/20 Recent Posts
Thanks Kaloyan! This makes sense. I like the filter analogy. 

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