RE: How to reach bare sensations?

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Robert C., modified 18 Days ago.

How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/5/21 Recent Posts
Is the goal of vipassana to see 'bare sensations' that are not interpreted or meditated by belief? 

I am having trouble distinguishing beliefs and interpretations from the bare sensations that I'm trying to see by doing vipassana.

When I try to either stop believing anything or to stop interpreting sensations, some of my attention becomes one-pointed, but I don't know exactly what it is focusing on. Is what I'm accidentally focusing on just the default that consciousness rests on when it isn't looking for an object elsewhere?

It also feels a bit like doing nothing.

I would say that when I do this, things feel effortless, but if I stop to focus on myself doing them, there are sensations of effort again. Is this a state of ignorance or insight?

I'm worried that this is a form of access concentration or jhana that won't lead anywhere worthwhile.

When I try to take the entire field of ever-new sensate experience as my object, I get the same result with a bit more of a flavour of energy and engagement from letting go of interpretations of sensations quickly to make room for the one that's always newly arisen so I can see it more clearly/mindfully.

Please help me find out if I am practicing vipassana correctly, and how I can improve.

Thank you,
Robert
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Stefan Stefan, modified 18 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 238 Join Date: 3/28/21 Recent Posts
This all sounds worthwhile, especially if you can learn to investigate the transition stage between effort and effortlessness. Learn to see how the mind pops in and out of these modes and there'll be big clues on what this giant mess of sensations is all about. 

One thing that helped me regarding beliefs: I sincerely believe beliefs are just rational clothes for an emotional body. That is, if you really hold the belief and investigate it, you'll find some sort of underlying emotional tone that gives the belief juice to operate. That may be another line of investigation worth pursuing. 
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Chris M, modified 18 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 4103 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Is the goal of vipassana to see 'bare sensations' that are not interpreted or meditated by belief? 

​​​​​​​In my practice, I have taken the goal of vipassana to be to help me see what's going on in each moment and to thus eventually reveal the workings of mind. 

I am having trouble distinguishing beliefs and interpretations from the bare sensations that I'm trying to see by doing vipassana.

This is a common experience. There isn't a simple answer, however. You need to keep investigating. You might ask yourself, as you observe what's going on in the mind while you meditate - is there such a thing as bare sensation? Or is every sensation mediated in some way, and by what?
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Robert C, modified 18 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/5/21 Recent Posts
Thank you, Chris M & Stefan Stefan. Both are very helpful answers.

I would like to reply to them in a few days, after I've had time to apply what you've recommended and consider what you've said more thoughtfully.
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Dream Walker, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 1399 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Robert C
Is the goal of vipassana to see 'bare sensations' that are not interpreted or meditated by belief? 
No. If you want bear sensations, reincarnate as a bear. LOL, just kidding.
Goal :  Training the mind to investigate sensations such that it will continue to so automatically in EQ.

I am having trouble distinguishing beliefs and interpretations from the bare sensations that I'm trying to see by doing vipassana.
You are overcomplicating it. Note 'beliefs' as THINKING as well as 'interpretations'
SEEING
HEARING
FEELING
THINKING
That captures 98% of experience. Then when the mind jumps in fast and gets tooooo automatic add IN and OUT to each label to continue.

When I try to either stop believing anything or to stop interpreting sensations, some of my attention becomes one-pointed, but I don't know exactly what it is focusing on.
Notice each sensation and use the above labels.
Is what I'm accidentally focusing on just the default that consciousness rests on when it isn't looking for an object elsewhere?
Uhhh, sure why not? does it matter at this stage? No

It also feels a bit like doing nothing.
Well start labeling sensations

I would say that when I do this, things feel effortless, but if I stop to focus on myself doing them, there are sensations of effort again. Is this a state of ignorance or insight?
Label Effort as FEELING

I'm worried that this is a form of access concentration or jhana that won't lead anywhere worthwhile.
Jhana slips in to vipassana naturally. follow the 'progress of insight' stages.

When I try to take the entire field of ever-new sensate experience as my object, I get the same result with a bit more of a flavour of energy and engagement from letting go of interpretations of sensations quickly to make room for the one that's always newly arisen so I can see it more clearly/mindfully.
How is this a problem? Label SEEING

Please help me find out if I am practicing vipassana correctly, and how I can improve.
Just did, maybe.

Thank you,
Robert
Also look at sensations and if it seems like you, permenent, satisfying, stick on that sensation over and over until it Dissolves.
Questions lead to more questions, do and see what happens.
Good luck,
~D
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Robert C, modified 2 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 3 Join Date: 9/5/21 Recent Posts
Thank you for your reply. I'm finding this practice very helpful.

Could I talk to you for a little bit on Skype? I'm just a little confused about how to follow instructions for vipassana, if I'm making progress, and how I should set up my goals with the practice. I'm a bit of a novice if you can't tell, but I have heart.

My handle, if you're interested: live:.cid.357ed370908da8d2 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: How to reach bare sensations?

Posts: 2282 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Just to add to the already fine replies you've got emoticon 

Do not worry about Jhanas being a hindrance. You can still note, pay attention to the Jhana sensations and all else going on in those moments. Here I managed to make one video demo after a 45-minute session where 3rd Jhana stuff popped out. All conscious experiences can be noted/noticed. I do it aloud but this can be done silently too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyR-4XjE_U

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