Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Aleksandar Bozic, modified 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 7:23 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 7:23 PM

Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 13 Join Date: 8/25/21 Recent Posts
Hi,
I have been a meditator for ~4 years. Started with the breath for a year or two. Had my first A&P, dark night, never really had post SE bliss as it all seemed smooth changes in my understanding. I paused with meditation for about 8 months as DN sometimes was very distabilizing and I was a bit tired of constantly being on edge. Meditation stopped but insight hasn't and every 2-3 weeks another insight happens, followed by DN and so on many times. 
Now I felt i could quicken up progress again. I was doing dzogchen and was getting depersonalized a couple of times so I stopped with it and started doing shamatha to get more pleasant feelings going. 
I meditated for 20 minutes and I still seem to have the hang of it.

Here is where it becomes scary for me:
I started feeling like the edge of the sensate world was straining and raw. The feeling you get when you stare intensely at something and how your eyes feel due to the cold air. Extremely raw feeling, feeling overwhelmed by everything. Everything becomes really intense. It also feels like I am popping through my own eyes into an exposed state of being. The world is infinite in every direction and I am but a spec in such immensity. 
Every time I sit still everything starts feeling raw and intense. 
A friend of mine who is further along the path told me that it might be my mind starting to understand infinity. It feels kind of like a flip is supposed to happen. 
​​​​​​​Is there any easy/less painful/smarter way to get past this? It feels like the most intense thing I could feel. Is that THE FLIP? Any information or suggestions for easier progress would be greatly appreciated 
​​
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 8:42 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 8:42 PM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 1760 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 11:35 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/14/22 11:03 PM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 2458 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Depersonalization gets easier and eventually becomes enjoyable. I think it's probably a symptom of clinging too tightly to self concept in the first place! Also intense raw feeling of reality takes a while to adjust to, but is good in the end. With both experiences, the discomfort comes from the resistance. Try leaning into the experience and exploring it with curiosity instead - you are seeing reality as it really is!
Aleksandar Bozic, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 9:48 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 9:48 AM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 13 Join Date: 8/25/21 Recent Posts
Yeah it does seem like textbook fear. Re-reading was useful. But the flip seems really huge. It got much more intense quite quickly when comparing to the previous dukkha nanas. Previously it was kind of like just a bit of anxiety and discomfort. This hits in the "real deal" type of way. It seems to be less connected to my emotional state which I have kind of gotten used to being disrupted. This currently feels like utter insanity even though I know this is a key part of the path.

Every time an insight happens everything is really calm but damn while the insight doesn't settle it's really disturbing emoticon
Feels like I need to go a bit crazy so I can know how to be rational emoticon
Aleksandar Bozic, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 9:56 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 9:56 AM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 13 Join Date: 8/25/21 Recent Posts
Yeah that seems to be the lesson I learn and relearn with every passing through the nanas. Clinging = bad, being with what is = good. I'm losing interest to talk about the dharma for this reason. Either I try to explain some path to people to prevent further suffering or I discuss deep dharma to advance my own practice. Otherwise to non-meditators it seems like I am explaining the same thing over and over with different words. It is hard to stop clinging though emoticon

Regarding depersonalization it still seems like a longshot to enjoy it. Looking forward to that flip. Currently it's a lot of headaches and feelings of floating inside my head to which I am obviously clinging since there is suffering in that. 

Well I hope it will be easier than it seems now (probably not.... emoticon)
​​​​​​​
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 10:18 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 10:18 AM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 4417 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Why are we aiming for depersonalization? Seriously - it's not the same thing as the buddhist characteristic called "not-self."
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 1:00 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 1:00 PM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 2458 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I don't think anyone should be aiming for depersonalization, it just seems to be an experience that arises for some practitioners along the path. For me it was a sudden feeling of terror upon realizing that I was not who or what I thought I was. The experience was unpleasant, but the insight has persisted and proved to be liberating.
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 1:18 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 1:13 PM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 2458 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
To reduce the overwhelm of DPDR type experiences, stop thinking about them by getting grounded in the body (focussing on physical sensations and/or doing physical activities/chores, food, exercise, sex etc)

Re. the headaches and feeling of floating inside the head, there's probably some habitual sense of 'my thoughts/existence is located inside my head', which is a kind of energetic contraction. As it starts to loosen up, it can be short-term disorienting, but again long-term it is much more pleasant not to have experience so tightly contracted in the (sense of a) head. If you want to move things along, you can analyze how the mind creates the sense of having a head which is the centre point of experience located in space. How do you know that you have a head?
thumbnail
terry, modified 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 6:40 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 4/15/22 6:40 PM

RE: Not sure what it is but it is bone-chilling

Posts: 2185 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
"Is there any easy/less painful/smarter way to get past this? It feels like the most intense thing I could feel. Is that THE FLIP? Any information or suggestions for easier progress would be greatly appreciated"

------------------------------


suggest you not cling so tightly to feelings that only
ex​​ist in the past, no matter how intense...

if important, they will bear fruit,
​​​​​​​weather permitting


(and so it was, that later
as the chaucer told his tales
that the face of the soul, once pure spirit,
faded entirely into the background)

Breadcrumb