Hi all:

I recently listened to two Buddhist Geeks podcasts about Jeffery Martin's recent academic research on non-symbolic consciousness, aka enlightenment:

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/author/jeffery-martin/

In them, Martin discusses his continuum model of enlightenment, the far right end of which contains people who claim to experience no self-referential thoughts or emotions. Sounds like AF.

Thought some of you might be interested.

Thanks to Daniel Ingram for alluding to Martin's research in a recent DhO post.

very interesting thanks. His descriptions of those on the far end of the spectrum do seem eerily similar to AF but I'd still like to discuss their experiences to see if they match lol.

Where have I read this before ?
(I remember because it really resonated well with me as well)

Similarities to AF are no longer surprising, I do wonder about some of the practices of some of the people from other traditions operating in a similar state.

i just read this book from a buddhist lay woman, Upasika Kee Nanayon. it had some clear descriptions of PCEs, suggesting that one uses those memories to orient themselves, focusing on becoming a consciousness that just "receives" rather than one that goes out and feeds on things. it really linked together my understanding of Buddhism and Actualism, and i can really see how they fit together now.

on the following page it's called "an untangled knowing" check it out if interested

josh r s

I have a somewhat different way of saying this, tho I think we are saying the same idea (please let me know if not): forms (including thoughts such as feelings and concepts) are moving about, and there is no center or magnet that can pull those forms into "a hold" or into adhesion. There is awareness and ability to observe forms, while there is no centricity extending out (or pulling in) and adhering with the matter. Sensory and mental awareness localizes matter in degrees of wide-to-narrow. Without the centricity adhering to/pulling at matter, there is absence of tension. This lack of tension and conscious centricity may be preferred by the mental faculty over what it knew before (adhesing/pulling matter into itself). However, a central response to having experienced this centerlessness may also include fear, disturbance, or restlessness.


There can be a similarity here of how a muscle relaxes (where this similarity undoubtedly forms from my increase in yoga practice): during a stretch there is a muscle spindle response from the muscle center commanding a contraction (reflex arc). The conscious mental faculty also receives news of this contraction and may consciously relax the stretch a bit, dissolving the contraction, gently sustaining a comfortable, gentle stretch with attentive, long slow deep breathing. Back and forth, the stretch is entered more through gentle contraction-releasing: stretch-reach, central firing of the muscle spindle-responding contraction-conscious slight back off and dissolving the contraction-relaxed open muscle. Repeat.

The self seeking PCE can also sense its own contraction around forms (including thoughts such as feelings and concepts), breathe, loosen and release the contraction around the forms, and let the tension of form-holding dissolve. The self then has some expansion/relaxation. If that central self does not take up forms again (it has no uptake of itself as an observer even or [central sense of] consciousness), this explodes self-processes into forms apperception.

[edit: in brackets]

well, it's she who said that (or something like it), not I, so i can't be sure. but it sounds like the same thing.

Thanks, skimmed over a few of pages I like her style, will read it a bit more later.

Here is a direct link to the pdf for anyone interested...

http://www.dharma.org/bcbs/pages/documents/Unentangled.pdf

Wow. I think that's the cleanest, most useful exposition of dharma I have ever seen. Thanks.

Neil