Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/17/22 2:36 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/17/22 6:53 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Dragon Slayer of Mordor 11/17/22 1:51 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go thor jackson 11/17/22 1:42 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go thor jackson 11/17/22 2:39 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Chris M 11/17/22 5:46 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go thor jackson 12/7/22 7:35 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Olivier S 12/7/22 11:58 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go thor jackson 12/7/22 12:08 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Olivier S 12/7/22 2:25 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Chris M 12/7/22 2:48 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Noah D 11/17/22 10:51 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/18/22 1:03 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/18/22 5:19 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Pepe · 11/18/22 7:31 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George S 11/18/22 1:26 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/21/22 2:27 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/19/22 6:45 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Pepe · 11/19/22 10:47 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/21/22 2:33 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/21/22 5:44 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/22/22 1:14 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/22/22 11:27 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/23/22 2:50 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go David V 11/25/22 2:20 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/22/22 11:07 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/24/22 3:44 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/24/22 5:36 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Chrollo X 11/25/22 8:04 PM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Adi Vader 11/24/22 6:48 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go George Melon 11/25/22 2:57 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go shargrol 11/26/22 9:17 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Dark Knight 12/3/22 12:22 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Adi Vader 12/3/22 1:24 AM
RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go Chris M 12/7/22 9:08 AM
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 2:36 AM
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Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 27 Join Date: 6/20/22 Recent Posts
I just finished a total of two months of personal retreat (10 hours a day) in a three month period at a retreat center. I passed through some harsh DN's and now bounce between the DN's and EQ. I'll describe my understanding/experience of EQ, knowing it may not be spot on, hence this post!

low EQ - can let go of efforting (3rd gear of Kenneth's 3 speed transmission), a kind of pleasant detachment from senses, no dukkha, maybe some annoyance with 'slippery mind', awareness naturally inclined to mind stream. Awareness touches thought for a second or two, then slips away for 10 or 15 seffconds before returning on its own. Mild energy build up in forehead / third eye. I get tired of the drifitng at some point and start objectifying thought with noting, or returning to gentle noting on the outbreath which helps stabilize things.

Mid EQ - similar to low EQ but forehead energy buildup is now moderate, and awareness effortlessly stays iwth thoughts for 3-5 seconds before slipping away for 3-5 seconds, but not so much like slipping away as much as it feels like 'pure thinking'... (not sure if that makes sense). Generally throughout EQ, awareness is just a very soft, sublt knowing of the mind stream, not penetrating much or with clear insight into 3's. 

High EQ - Energy in forehead (which i relate to strength of mindfulness mainly) is now moderate to high - feels like frontal lobe is receiving a warm bath. Awareness is now mostly staying with thoughts, seeing them arise and pass clearly, sometimes slipping for 1-3 seconds but returns in the earlier/mid stage of the thought. Starting to see the witness or just awareness itself more naturally.

Usually, after 10 or 20 minutes in the mid to high EQ range, things get a bit dreamy and doesn't feel like I'm really staying with it (the moment). I've heard this is common and can be good, so I try to let go even deeper, trying to forgoe any interest or inclination towards even being present at all. I get a bit dreamy, lose a sense of orientation and just drift around with the subtle mind stream without clear awareness. Still, It's almost like a sublte knowing is operating but I don't even know about it... lol

Sharing my EQ experience with DI, he thought I might be falling into the EQ trap where one solidifes in a kind of resting back too far, and he encouraged me to continue to tune into the 3D, fluxing, shimmering, flowing aspect of space, phenomena, and witness. 

My natural experience resonates more with shargrol's advice in EQ of using less and less effort, just sitting in EQ, just dwelling on the mind stream. It's hard for me to experientially understand DI's more investigative approach. It's hard to feel into the flowy, fluxing aspect of space and witness especially. Everything just seems relaxed, subtle, while the mind stream is predominant. 

Looking for feedback to make sense of the investigation vs. letting go aspect of EQ. I see both sides of the spectrum on the forum and would invite feedback given my descriptions of my experience. 
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 6:53 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Oh man, I had the best reply that got eaten... emoticon

Short story is it is about balance: If you are too bored and lazy, you need to investigate. If you are too intense and manic, you need to let go.

The goal is an intimate experience of the present movement, a balance of awareness and relaxation. The mind lets you know when you are on the right track because balanced is a great way to be. 

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thor jackson, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 1:42 PM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Investigating is a by product. Letting go is the entire goal. Foget about investigating, it is second hand.
Dragon Slayer of Mordor, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 1:51 PM
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Is this advice specific to equanimity or more general? What if a person has persistent hindrances such as dullness? Can a person be in equanimity if they atre plagued by the hindrances? Thanks
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thor jackson, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 2:39 PM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Focus on any fault or disruption is detrimental to advancement. Your intention should be nothing less than complete one pointed concentration. Every moment of your life. That is perfect training. It is your choice if you choose to be sidetracked. 
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Chris M, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 5:46 PM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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There is much more to meditation than just concentration. Concentration is nice, and helpful, and can lead to wonderful things. But so can investigation, just sitting (shikantaza in Zen) and many other tools from the world's various contemplative traditions.
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Noah D, modified 2 Months ago at 11/17/22 10:51 PM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Replying to OP:

Your letting go within high eq sounds good. Increase the letting go & relaxation more & more. It's much easier to add back in brightness & clarity later (vs starting with that & then trying to relax).  

by practicing letting go , you'll firmly ground yourself in high eq as a cutting edge.  Once you have that, it's about understanding what vestiges of resistance remain. What's stopping you from fully surrendering into full synchrony with the field? This inquiry will lead to clarity naturally & have less risk of slipping back into reobservation.
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/18/22 1:03 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Thank you y’all, very helpful and reassuring. When things get too dull or drifty, I've been playing with metta, self inquiry, or noting on the outbreath. And then trying to find that balance that feels just right / - effortless, relaxed awareness that is intimate with experience, not too removed or spacy, but knowing there may be a time for that too after high EQ periods... welcome any other thoughts or ideas.
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/18/22 5:19 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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(Great comment from Noah! It really is about appreciating what's there and gently exploring any remaining resistance/tension.)
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Pepe ·, modified 2 Months ago at 11/18/22 7:31 AM
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Yeah Noah, that was great advice (for me too) thanks!

When things get too dull or drifty, I've been playing with metta, self inquiry, or noting on the outbreath. And then trying to find that balance that feels just right / - effortless, relaxed awareness that is intimate with experience, not too removed or spacy, but knowing there may be a time for that too after high EQ periods... welcome any other thoughts or ideas.

Hi Gunnar, I'm in a similar territory lately. My practice is more like this: First observe thoughts, which then drop and then rest in the vibrations or tensions in the body. When thoughts are sparse (and concentration go deeper just by dwelling in the senses) I observe intentions, let them drop and kind of merge with vibrations/else. Sometimes I do put focus on spotting the subtlest physical sensation and again kind of merge with it. Finally, when the body/mind is calmed enough, I switch to observe the I/Observer. There's a subtle tension between the observer and the observed, there's a discomfort by eternally switching from one to the other. That's my cutting edge. Whenever it's possible, I'm trying to be more present in that situation, trying to surrender to that discomfort and let the objects come/embrace/surround/merge with me. 
George S, modified 2 Months ago at 11/18/22 1:26 PM
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Sometimes I do put focus on spotting the subtlest physical sensation and again kind of merge with it. Finally, when the body/mind is calmed enough, I switch to observe the I/Observer. There's a subtle tension between the observer and the observed, there's a discomfort by eternally switching from one to the other.

Try observing the sensations that make up the observer!
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/19/22 6:45 AM
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(Nice pointer George!)
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Pepe ·, modified 2 Months ago at 11/19/22 10:47 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Will do! Thank you both!
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/21/22 2:27 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Thanks Pepe for your practice description, I stopped objectifying thoughts as much, perhaps I can do that more early on as KF describes and see if they'll quiet down for more intimacy with knowing the observer. 
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/21/22 2:33 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Shargrol

(1) in your compilation, you speak of the three gear transmission by KF saying something like: first gear is mainly for first and second path, second gear is for third path, and third gear is for fourth path. There's no explanation further of this in the comp. I find myself wondering about the balance between the three gears pre-stream entry. You seem to advocate a lot for third gear when in equanimity pre-SE. I seem to do well with first and third gear but cannot really sustain a second gear presence. Would love A deeper dive here from you if you're willing.

(2) your daily mindfulness tips have been helpful. I sense that noting during the day causes more fixation and constriction of the mind, but still sharper and catches more nuance. While your suggestion of turning more into the bodily sense if things are relaxed and joyful has a fullness and ease to it that is beneficial. I shall keep playing..
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/21/22 5:44 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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You might like this: https://kennethfolkdharma.com/2018/02/what-is-the-three-speed-transmission/

In terms of what I was talking about when I said: "Basically, do what works for you … but if there is a general pattern for meditators it would be first gear emphasis for 1st and 2nd path, then second gear emphasis for 3rd, and third gear emphasis for 4th.--- it's an over simplification, but I hope this paints a general picture.  "   (https://shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#kenneth-folks-three-gears)  In general, it's saying that when in doubt pre-SE, do gentle and consistent noting AKA first gear.

This biggest problem for the pre-SE yogi in EQ is they completely stop practicing. Life is good again, so why do boring meditation practice? The second biggest problem for the pre-SE yogi is they continue to sit on the cushion, but they have >essentially< stopped practicing. They go into a vague and drifty mode without any investigation. They chill out and space out... and eventually they fall back into the dark night. ​​​​​​​I think there can be a temptation to go into 3rd gear (just sit, just be) when in EQ, but for the pre-SE yogi, the momentum of their practice starts falling apart and then when the next strong reactive pattern pops up, they're reacting strongly and unmindfully and they are back in the dark night. If they instead continued to very gently note (one label each out breath or so), then they would be less likely to become lazy and beguiled by EQ. Now that said, it is enevitable that practice is going to take someone into EQ and back into Dark Night many many many times. But if you are gently investigating/noting you will be more likely to notice the nature of their reactive pattern that sends you into the Dark Night and more likely to fully understand/release that pattern.

In so many words: When you are practicing, you should be practicing. Practice works best if you spend your specified time doing a structured practice. Especially for us non-monastics, there is plenty of time for letting things be as they are (3rd gear) during normal off-cushion life. 

I think there is one thing that I say that might be confused with a 3rd gear approach in EQ... When people have a consistent daily practice and when they can continue to gently note in EQ, even when not much is going on, then I personally think it is a good idea to get used to gently noting/investigating as the mind becomes drifty and vague. So >less< effort is recommended, but not no effort. So this is different than just falling into a non-attentive dullness. Instead, it is continuing to use the knowing mind to investigate states that seem like they have no mindfulness, but the paradox is: if you are aware of the drifty and vague mind, you aren't embedded in the drifty and vague mind --- you are mindful!

And you are somehow "beyond" the drifty and vague mind when you are mindful like this, even though the contents of the mind are still drifty and vague. It is very helpful to play with in High EQ. In a way, it's more like 2nd gear (inquiry) because you are investigating "From where is the observing mind looking?" "What is it that knows?" Mind is looking at mind --- isn't that interesting! 

So this approach is using less and less effort, but it is still paying attention/investigating. It can often feel like the mind is looking at mind in an odd way. And there will be an experience of the slight tension of being "an observer", the tension of being an observing mind that is observing mind... Investigating this tension can create a context where the mind jumps to nirvana as a way of getting away from the tension of being an observer. 

But this can't be done too soon. The Dark Night is all about being agnsty about being a mind that observes negative experiences. In High EQ, the mind is very light and airy and the remaining negativity is sooooo subtle, all you need to do is gently investigate it. Using a 1st gear (noting) or 2nd gear (inquiry) is probably best. Of course it's okay to experiment with 3rd gear (doing nothing), but be honest about whether 3rd gear is actually making any progress in your mindfulness/insight.

Hope this helps in some way.  
 
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/22/22 1:14 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Thanks, I re-read the KF article, nice to re-digest.

Your clarification helps: "In general, it's saying that when in doubt pre-SE, do gentle and consistent noting AKA first gear." (sorry, site not letting me re-'quote')
I think I may jump a bit hastily into 3rd gear at times, thinking it's the 'ideal' practice if available, and get spacey/vauge as you mention below. I shall keep this in mind.
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"(referring to traps in EQ) They go into a vague and drifty mode without any investigation. They chill out and space out..." Circling back to the OP a bit here, so does the noting on each out-breath naturally instill the practice with investigation as a relaxed, intimate awareness naturally picks these things up? or is there a kind of 'add-on' perception where you incline the mind to see the 3 C's as you note on each out breath?

Thanks for the rest of your reflection - very useful context for me and understanding the 'less effort' points you make. Rather than 50% noting, 50% 3rd gear with some 2nd gear like I've been doing, I shall try a bit more noting than usual and then still check out the 3rd gear kind of surrender and see if noticing picks up naturally like it surely can. I'm practicing 8-10 hours a day as I travel around Asian monasteries for this year-long period (4 months in) - just to give context to my situation.

Also, as dreamwalker mentioned in a noting thread for his practice, I too find the "see, hear, feel, thought" notes to be sufficient for most of my experience, and then when things become more obviously clear to the mind such as anger or doubt, I might note those more specifically. Is there a potential loss of insight in more simplistic noting or is it mostly based in the intimacy with what is being experienced?
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/22/22 11:07 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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I didn't like my answer, so I'm deleting and starting over...
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/22/22 11:27 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Gunnar Malensek
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"(referring to traps in EQ) They go into a vague and drifty mode without any investigation. They chill out and space out..." Circling back to the OP a bit here, so does the noting on each out-breath naturally instill the practice with investigation as a relaxed, intimate awareness naturally picks these things up? or is there a kind of 'add-on' perception where you incline the mind to see the 3 C's as you note on each out breath?

I would say that the noting means that you are also looking for something to note --- and that helps ensure there is investigation. 



Thanks for the rest of your reflection - very useful context for me and understanding the 'less effort' points you make. Rather than 50% noting, 50% 3rd gear with some 2nd gear like I've been doing, I shall try a bit more noting than usual and then still check out the 3rd gear kind of surrender and see if noticing picks up naturally like it surely can. I'm practicing 8-10 hours a day as I travel around Asian monasteries for this year-long period (4 months in) - just to give context to my situation.

Also, as dreamwalker mentioned in a noting thread for his practice, I too find the "see, hear, feel, thought" notes to be sufficient for most of my experience, and then when things become more obviously clear to the mind such as anger or doubt, I might note those more specifically. Is there a potential loss of insight in more simplistic noting or is it mostly based in the intimacy with what is being experienced?

You'll need to find what works for you. Noting one or more of the three characteristics can be helpful in developing mindfulness and moving through the nanas. So can choosing to note sensations, emotions, and thoughts. Simplistic noting might be fine. 

If someone is getting into EQ during most sits, I would say that the thing that probably should be investigated is subtle dukka. Why is this moment of being alive not enough? Where is there still some resistance/avoidance? Where is there still some desire for something different? In EQ, it can be good to make notes for anything that feels like dukka. You can even note any emotions/thoughts/frustrations/confusions about not getting Stream Entry! emoticon

Sometimes EQ is so wonderful it's hard to find the dukka, but then you should note the things that make it wonderful (space, ease, peace, joy, relaxation) because one other trap in EQ is to become embedded in those experiences and not recognize the most important thing: EQ is a state experience and while some states are good (EQ, jhanas) they aren't the-state-beyond-all-states. It's not awakening/enlightenment but rather a momentary experience of a good state. 

If you have gotten to EQ, the important thing is to keep going. Don't get attached to the state of EQ. EQ is the closest thing to awakening/enlightenment, but it isn't quite it.

​​​​​​​Hope this helps.
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/23/22 2:50 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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So unbearably helpful! Thank you shargrol, excited to practice with this.
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/24/22 3:44 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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So I practiced noting for about four hours yesterday afternoon, and I stayed pretty steady in this place where I could stay with the five senses pretty well, but subtle thoughts, practice thoughts, and random thoughts are floating around in the background - I would only catch them as they were passing or a few seconds after, so not much clarity around thoughts as they occurred. I knew i could go deeper than this and it didn’t feel like my cutting edge.So I said ‘the heck with it’ and I went to third gear / do nothing and awareness really opened up and I could see most of the subtle thoughts and practice thoughts as they were arising and passing. And still was aware of the five senses but they were dimmed in light of the broader awareness. I guess thoughts / everything become(s) softer / quieter too in third gear for me. And as Noah D. Mentioned above, it felt much easier to let go with do nothing and then add back in a sense of investigation. The mind is pliable and open to suggestion, though it does seem to lose a bit of its all-encompassing quality even when gently directed from within 3rd gear quality. That said, I will play with adding in some 3 C’s investigation into this space, as well as continuing with some self inquiry at times. I’m not sure the noting on each out breath works too well for me at this juncture. Seems to jumble things up a bit, I start missing thoughts, and it bring me down a level. I think adding in investigation through noticing works better than noting, but will experiment some more. 
I’m sensing that I could still use more first gear in my practice, and then still keep checking in with third gear when I think the momentum is there for mid-high EQ. Also then being quicker to return to first gear when I get spacey and out of touch, instead of hoping a low EQ / spacey do nothing will somehow jump up to mid-high EQ.
Open to any feedback on these reflections. 
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/24/22 5:36 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Rather than commenting on your plan, I want to comment on how you intuitively knew something wasn't optimum and instinctively decided to say "to heck with it" and try something else. That's the best approach, settle into practice and trust your intuition and instincts more and more. By EQ, most yogis should have a few practice methods that "work" for them, and they should feel comfortable experimenting and switching between methods when things seem stale or blocked. More and more, it's important to trust the natural intelligence of the mind, especially as you get closer to conformity and Stream Entry. The mind is basically teaching itself what to do.
Adi Vader, modified 2 Months ago at 11/24/22 6:48 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Hi Gunnar

I am writing here simply to provide you with a perspective. Knowing fully well that you will use your discrimination and your own practice sense and thereby take from it only that which you find useful.

We dont do the knowledges on the PoI map. .... They happen! We cannot concern ourselves with a results map, we should only concern ourselves with a skill building and investigation rubric. It does not matter which knowledge on the PoI map you currently are. Just make a practice plan which incorporates a list of crucial skills that you will cultivate and a list of investigations that you will do. For two weeks just simply work on that plan, taking notes on the sit itself. At the end of the two weeks pull out your log and pull out  the PoI map and do a self assesment, and far more importantly plan out what you will do in the next two weeks. Once you have given the intellectual mind  enough leeway to play with the PoI map within the context of your own meditation log, once you have used the two to create a plan for the next two weeks ..... set both of them aside. Like a donkey with its head down pulling a load .... just simply execute your own plan ... till its time for the next review

Plan for doing one skill building sit and one investigation sit, alternating between the two.

Here's a reddit post which might be interesting and useful for you, and might give you some practice ideas. Please check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Arhatship/comments/vpmrf2/shrotapanna_marg_shrotapanna_phal_notes_for_a/
David V, modified 2 Months ago at 11/25/22 2:20 AM
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Thanks a lot for this explanation, shargrol...very useful. It helped me to understand problems I had in my practice (I probably relaxed too much when in EQ, fell back and than had to use a lot of effort to build it up to EQ again). 
George Melon, modified 2 Months ago at 11/25/22 2:57 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

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Thanks shargrol and Adi. Appreciate the encouragement and thought.

My mind finds that a bit structured for me adi, and yet beneficial as I can bounce around a bit. I'll read that article and ponder.
Chrollo X, modified 2 Months ago at 11/25/22 8:04 PM
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shargrol
Rather than commenting on your plan, I want to comment on how you intuitively knew something wasn't optimum and instinctively decided to say "to heck with it" and try something else. That's the best approach, settle into practice and trust your intuition and instincts more and more. By EQ, most yogis should have a few practice methods that "work" for them, and they should feel comfortable experimenting and switching between methods when things seem stale or blocked. More and more, it's important to trust the natural intelligence of the mind, especially as you get closer to conformity and Stream Entry. The mind is basically teaching itself what to do.
Hey Shargrol, what's the point of having multiple practice methods with EQ? Does EG really care what you do? It sounds like having multiple tools for ego to mess around and hypnotize you from the nana is a bad idea. 
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 11/26/22 9:17 AM
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RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 1908 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
It's one of those theory versus reality things. In theory, all you need to do is pay attention to the breath and you go all the way to 4th path. In reality, most people need to have a few methods that work well for different situations.

Definitely see what makes sense for you;. only you can determine if more than one method is helpful for you. 
Dark Knight, modified 2 Months ago at 12/3/22 12:22 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 12/3/22 12:22 AM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/2/22 Recent Posts
What are you people doing? This isn't Dhamma. Right speech, right action, right resolve, right effort, right livelihood, right mindfulness, right samadhi, and right view. There's no heirarchy to the path, there is no shortcut to gnosis, there are no special states or attainments.  There's only anicca, anatta and dukkha. There's just greed, anger and delusion, or attachment, aversion and ignorance, if that floats your boat better. But there's no EQ or DN, streamers, or returners of any frequency. Nor is there nama or rupa or blips or any portion of the infinite variations of nonsense I see vomited on these threads. Dhamma is a gradual training - not because it's mysterious or tricky somehow, but because it's painfully obvious to everyone - even the most deluded among us - how much hard work, i.e. good old fashion suffering, stands between the wretched state they find themselves in and the promises of so-called enlightenment.
Adi Vader, modified 2 Months ago at 12/3/22 1:24 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 12/3/22 1:24 AM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 202 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Hi Dark Knight

Tell us something about your practice. What have you accomplished?

​​​​​​​Other than your angst? emoticon
thor jackson, modified 2 Months ago at 12/7/22 7:35 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 12/7/22 7:35 AM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 42 Join Date: 11/17/22 Recent Posts
Chris M
There is much more to meditation than just concentration. Concentration is nice, and helpful, and can lead to wonderful things. But so can investigation, just sitting (shikantaza in Zen) and many other tools from the world's various contemplative traditions.

We are false identities based on the feedback from our senses and thoughts. One pointed, continous, unbroken concentration is the ONLY way to break that identity.
Investigation and any other "tool" is an indulgence.
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 9:08 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 9:08 AM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 4654 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
That's manifestly incorrect. But if that's what works for you, that's great. Go for it.
Olivier S, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 11:58 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 11:58 AM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 794 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
If there are no stable identities, how can there be concentration ? What would concentrate on what ? 
thor jackson, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 12:08 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 12:08 PM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 42 Join Date: 11/17/22 Recent Posts
Olivier S
If there are no stable identities, how can there be concentration ? What would concentrate on what ? 

Awareness is stablility. Identity with awarenss is infinite.
Olivier S, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 2:25 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 2:25 PM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 794 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
Where is stable awareness ? What is stable about awareness ?
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 2:48 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 12/7/22 2:29 PM

RE: Navigating Equanimity Nana - investigating vs. letting go

Posts: 4654 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The "thor jackson" account has been suspended. I don't think engaging with that person was going to be satisfying for anyone but that person, anyway. 

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